Absolutely woeful.

Well done to Crawley.

The middle order has been a total let down this series.

For those blaming Hyam missing his penalty. Messi has missed 31 penalties. Ronaldo 29. Totti 18. Shearer 11. Rooney 11. Kane 11. Henry 8.

On a different note, seriously how good were ALL the players tonight? Every single one of them.

The keeper was outstanding, the three central halves hugely accomplished, our wing backs brilliantly nullified their dangerous wingers, our centre midfielders were skillful, resolute and hardworking and the three attackers ran their socks off and created numerous openings. All subs picked up the pace of the game immediately and contributed fully. 

Very proud of the team. Well done to everyone. COYB.

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Exactly Gav. People want old fashion cricket but how is going to the next generation and don't forget that fans going to watch Test cricket around the world is on declined so Stokes/McCullum want to entertain the fans and get people watching it again. 

Most teams lose in India cos their conditions are so unique and are top quality team. 

I don't think you understand what Bazball is tbh. Like many others on here. McCullum and Key have given a detailed opinion on how they want to play .

 

Crawley has improved under Stokes and McCullum. Our top run scorer in the Ashes btw..

Also what the averages of these players in India before this series I wonder?.

Old fashioned cricket? Fast scoring, attacking cricket was being played in the 1980's with Greenidge, Haynes, Richards and Lloyd. Then again by Australia for twenty of the last thirty years. It's not as revolutionary as the uninformed imagine.

India have not lost a series at home since Cook toured there with England 17 series ago. So what? Can we not aspire to be successful?

Oh I fully understand what Bazball is meant to be. But your general lack of knowledge and understanding prevents you identifying the nuances.

For example in an earlier post you stated that Bazball allowed cricketers to fourish and play their natural game. Yet missed the irony in your words watching our best batsman in Root struggle to incorporate meditated one day shots into his test arsenal. Until he had a word with himself and played naturally again.

Why when talking about the Indua series are folk determined to talk about previous series. Try and stay current. Bazball is ok on flat tracks pefect for the bullies. In India you need technical craft.

If Bazball.is all about maximising individual performance why have so many of our top order failed to achieve their average scores in India? Not improved scores, just reached their average?

Oh and I can name 6 or 7 top Indian players who have missed either the entire series, or matches in this series. So we've been battered by their second eleven.

Like I said it's been very disappointing, but those that can't see the wood for the trees harp on about how it was before Stokes took over. Might as well.go back to Brearley against the West Indies, or Gower in Australia, or Botham or Flintoff or Atherton disastrously in charge,. But I guess mentioning Root in the West Indies does deflect from 7 wickets falling for 35 runs in the last innings of Bazball. Or our inability to.last more than 40 overs in a test innings. 

You find it exciting as its over quick and matches your attention span.

8 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

What makes you think we won't go down? We are 4 points off the relegation places and have barely won a game this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we lose on Saturday to put us even closer into the mire. That's how bad we are.

Stoke will change their manager soon and then we are hoping and praying they don't get a new manager bounce otherwise we're in big trouble. 

5 games - 5 conceded - 6 scored - 6 points from 15 - 1.2 points per game.

We have won one, drawn three and lost one under Eustace. We have stopped conceding 2+ goals a game, are unbeaten at Ewood, have rationalised our approach, are now playing the percentages, have a head start on others, have made life simpler and some of our better players have returned from injury. Plus I do.not rate some of our peers.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

We could return to the days of 1 series win in 17 which is where we sat before Key and Baza came in?

What this side has achieved has been phenomenal, breaking records all over the place, I’m surprised at your comments. 

Not one batsman comes out with any credit? Are you sure you’ve been watching the same series? 

Maybe you want blockers at each end and play for a draw? Give me bazball all day long, this test has been terrific.
 

 

I'm just talking about India and its been disappointing. As much throigh the lack of intelligence and discipline as anything else.

Averages in India

Crawley - 41

Duckett - 39

Pope - 35

Root - 30

Robinson - 29

Stokes - 24

Foakes - 21

Bairstow - 21

Hartley - 19

Wood - 16

Ahmed - 12

Bashir - 4

Anderson - 3

Crawley normally averages 32. Duckett averages 42. Pope averages 34. Root averages 49. Stokes averages 35. Bairstow averages 36. Foakes averages 29.

So Crawley has outperformed.his normal mediocrity and Pope is marginally better than his uninspiring 34. All.else are below, or considerably below their normal average. Yet you describe this as trenendous.

The middle order has been pish. Total dog dirt. The top four not much better. We were clearly never going to win this series with those performances. 

We lost 7 wickets for 35 runs in 26 overs in our 2nd innings. Absolutely pathetic.

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lets not forget just how good this Indian team is. they have some very good players and playing in home conditions. 

Lets stuff some people post on here like "they're being badly managed" or "We aren’t producing the players with the ” Right Stuff “ at the moment" are just embarrassing to read. 

We are a team who have actually make test cricket more appealing to young fans but also playing their natural way as cricketers. We took 3 young spinners out there and all have took wickets and would have learnt alot more playing out there. 

Crawley and Duckett has scored runs out there. No doubt we have missed Harry Brook.

These players are developing and learning through good and bad spells of cricket. 

 

We have lost the series after four tests. We were fortunate to win the one we did. We lost one test by the greatest ever margin in India. In some innings we have not survived 40 overs. India have had at least 3 top players missing every test.

Other than one big score from Pope, Duckett and Root we have often batted very badly / naively. And criminally gifted our wickets. In the last test alone I can think of four terrible dismissals.

It's not gone to plan. Because the plan was flawed. We have not scored enough runs or occupied the crease long enough. Those pointing out we don't have the players with the correct concentration, application, mindset and technique to prosper in India are simply stating the blatantly obvious. Did you know that the Indians didnt score a boundary for 35 overs chasing our total? 

They simply adapted to the immediate match requirements and played proper risk free test cricket with no misconceived, or pre-meditated ideas.

For me, Bazball has looked pretty old, dated and ineffective on this trip. I feel sorry for our bowlers. Not one batsmen comes out of this with any credit for me. 

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its been a great series, enthralling with some fantastic cricket, but at times to have to hold your hands up and say we were beaten by the better side. 

Its on to Dharamsala next, I had hoped to make it out to India for this one, but due to other commitments I'm struggling to fit it in, looks a fantastic venue! 

Yes they have been easily the better side. Too many of our players have not contributed consistently. 

Pleasing to see how our young spinners have developed.

Wow that venue looks amazing!

Disappointing to lose the series and this match so easily after getting into a good first innings position.

A lack of runs, and two good innings by the Indian middle order under fierce pressure saw them home.

40 minutes ago, Gav said:

Maybe I should have caveated it with ‘for England’ but I thought it was obvious….

I understood. Hence quoting his runs this series for England.

Do you think he will be happy with his series? Or describe it as tremendous? I don't.

4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Regardless of the outcome this is a pretty pathetic showing so far by England. India’s tail enders made 130, the sum total of England’s score now with 8 wickets down 

Precisely. Fecking rubbish. Very disappointing.

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Crawley was outstanding today in the context of the game, he’s had a tremendous series so far. 

A 250 lead would be handy, a 300 lead would win this game in my opinion. 

Crawley looked great whilst it lasted. Played straight, looked solid in defence and used his size well to turn a good length into a half volley.

Until that is he tried to play a ball hitting middle stump to square leg and played all round it. So annoying!!!

He has scored 20, 31, 76, 73, 15, 11, 42 and 60 this series. He keeps getting in, then getting out.

Tremendous series? Not sure about that. 51 runs in the first test and 26 in the 3rd test is neither use nor ornament. Jaiswal has over 600 runs at 71 including a 171, 209 and 214. That's tremendous.

But he is at least averaging over 40 which is a big improvememt. Plus he's fronting everything and batting when the ball is new and the bowlers are full of energy. Maybe I'm too harsh on him, but its only because I think he could cause chaos batting at 4 or 5.

RIP Paul Bradshaw. The first goalkeeper I watched at the Rovers.

19 for 2.

1 minute ago, booth said:

You can’t give him Stoke, that was one for the coaches. He’d been here for a day.

Cool. Give that one to JDT.

2 minutes ago, NeilInBristol said:

Comparing apples and oranges

JDT didn't have gally Dolan jrc hedges bucko 

JE didn't have Wharton.

Different squads.

Also the toxicity at the club before jdts departure is evident. Can't compare their tenures

What you can do is note that JE has almost a fit squad (barring JRC) and has 3 points out of a possibility of 12.

On that form alone we may not achieve our aim of 50,(now45) points. 

Of course. But there were a lot more apples and oranges flying into our net previously.

I keep reading 3 out of 12, but the stats will ultimately show JE was in charge against Stoke.

QPR lost 2-1
Huddersfield 1-1
West Brom lost 4-1
Rotherham 2-2
Hull lost 3-2
Huddersfield lost 3-0
Watford lost 2-1
Southampton lost 4-0
Bristol won 2-1
Leeds lost 2-0
Sheffield Wednesday lost 3-1

11 games - 27 conceded - 11 scored - 5 points from 33 - 0.45 points per game

Stoke won 3-1
Birmingham lost 1-0
Preston 2-2
Cardiff - 0-0
Norwich - 1-1

5 games - 5 conceded - 6 scored - 6 points from 15 - 1.2 points per game

We would now be level on points with Huddersfield in 19th if we hadn't made a change. And conceded 12 more goals. Should all have stayed the same of course.

I am pleased with the players for the effort and commitment displayed. At least we are not a soft touch any longer. It's nice to be 5 points clear of the dead legs. It's also nice not to concede an avalanche of goals each weekend.

I am however very suprised we can't string 3 passes together, after 18 months of practice. It can only mean that the manager does not wish to take any chances at all, at anytime and will simply trust in the percentages. Can't say I blame him with 5 points from 33 and relegation looming. I'm not sure he had any choice.

For balance, JDT did win fixtures 12 and 13. Plus 2 resounding Cup wins in the last 15 played. I still thought 11 games was a good enough sample. After 8 games we had 2 from 24 for example.

5 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

That's the old Joe Root, playing a proper Test innings with patience and careful defence. No Bumrah to torment him but hopefully that's the last we shall see of his Bazball type shots in this series. Cricket's a simple game when it's played properly. 

Yes Jim. Kept the sweeping and reverse sweeping to a minimum. Brilliant square drives, straight drives, back foot drives, late cuts and leg side shots with the spin.

Hes a brilliant batsmen playing to his strengths.

112 for 5......300 for 7!! Woop, woop.

Well done Root, Foakes and Robinson.

Root and Foakes the slowest 100 partnership in the last two years.

Afternoon session the slowest scoring session in the last two years.

Roots hundred the slowest 100 under Stokes reign.

Roots first four in front of square was his 126th bowl faced.

Roots tenth ton against India.

They played like they were representing England.

Crawley was bowled twice through the gate getting to 40, Bairstow and Pope were out playing across the line and 112 for 5 could have easily been 170 all out. Crawley isn't an opener for me.

Root has literally given us a chance to save the series. I hope he bats in the same manner tomorrow, doesn't gift his wicket chasing runs and remains not out. Send a message for the 2nd innings and last test.

Root plays sensible cricket and gets a ton. Who would have thought? I'm even more frustrated with his previous dismissals earlier this series.

Felt sorry for Stokes. Test pitches shouldn't produce pea rollers off a good length.

15 minutes ago, Gav said:

I see you ignored the West Indies result which was unintelligent and one dimensional with every defeat we suffered. Where we will agree is the likes of Joe Root shouldn’t be playing attacking shots with every ball, I can’t fathom that one out to be honest.

Good to see you posting again by the way 👍

We were terrible in the West Indies. We have also been terrible for much of my cricket watching life. We are much improved in many ways.

We have won 14 of the last 20 tests. 6 of which were nail biters. One of which was the first test in India. The recent record could easily look a lot different. 

I love the positive mental attitude and aggression. But for example look at Duckett running himself out going for a crazy single when we need 500+!!! The height of stupidity.

Root has 77 runs from 6 innings. It's costing us badly. I don't care how good you are you need to get 'in' before going for your shots. On that subject pre-meditated shots rely on more luck than skill.

Evening Gav and thanks. 

1 hour ago, Gav said:

This England team over the past few years are probably the best test side to represent this country, the records broken tells us that. They’ll not win every test match, the traditionalist don’t like it, but I for one love it and long may this attacking approach continue. 

Cricket has moved on, England are leading the way, trailblazing a path that the rest are keen to follow. 

Juts as a side note, here is the last game before BM and RK took over, hammered by 10wkts in West Indies, who wants a return to this?

Bazball is often unintelligent and one-dimensional and pro-sport is supposedly anything but. But the cultists can't see that more flexibility is required, or ever agree there is room for improvement.

Entertaining? Yes. 2 billion Indians are having a riot today.

Record breaking? Yup. India's largest ever test victory.

We lost this match at 89 for 0 with Crawley or 240 for 2 with Root in the first innings. We have lost the last 18 wickets for 200 or so. The shot selection and lack of personal responsibility is very disappointing.

This is one of the most painful test defeats i can ever remember. Even worse than Haynes and Greenidge scoring 300+ at Lords way back when.

Self inflicted, irresponsible, unprofessional, child-like and unacceptable. I've no idea where we go from here. It doesn't hurt the players enough when they get out. How can that be?

1 hour ago, Bohinen1983 said:

Dreadful football, dreadful side.  Feel like this is the perfect storm to see us go down... Amazing, selling your best players and not replacing them.. Who'd have thought! I'd be more shocked if we stayed up. Shocking side. 

Kaminski, Bell, Nyambe, Lenihan, Ayala, Rothwell, Travis, Wharton, Brereton, Armstrong..  We've not adequately replaced a single one of those.  Wonderful stuff!  

Yes but there's more to football than pretty little triangles as JDT demonstrated recently.

We won't go down. We are still scoring goals and are now giving some thought to percentage play, defence, and not gifting the opposition frequent chances / goals.

We could well have gone down under JDT as much as I liked his determination to play total football. 

Edit: sp

Yesterday we were 89 for no wicket, Duckett had 50 off 39 and was flying, we were chasing 450 and had made a great start.

Ashwin hadn't bowled up to that point, but was then brought on to slow our momentum. Bowling around the wicket off spin.

Seven balls later the brain dead Crawley is out sweeping on 15 to a ball pitching 18 inches outside leg stump, that bounced and turned. A ball he could just kick away. Chips it to short fine leg placed waiting in a catching position.

His sole responsibility at that stage was to support and play 2nd fiddle to Duckett, control his ego, play for the team, but again he squandered his wicket with scant regard for the match situation.

This morning, 10 minutes into the days play, Root is out for 18, caught at 2nd slip trying to reverse scoop a medium fast bowler.  I am all for playing positively, but irresponsible stupidity like that is completely unacceptable.

The captain Stokes defended with a straight bat and played patiently.  As the match required. So why is Root batting like he is on meths?

Crawley isn't an opener. I don't care how many he carts through mid-wicket. He would be far better at 4, 5 or 6. Root is pissing me off regularly throwing his wicket away when we are relying on him. Bairstow has always been susceptible to anything nipping back.

I'd swap Root for Crawley. Tell Root to play properly, leave balls outside off stump, play straight, protect his castle and open the innings. No scooping until he is well past 50. Bairstow either bats and wicket keeps, or his place has to be under threat. If Root wasn't bowling, I wouldn't be unhappy to see him get a wake up call either.

Our bowlers are toiling in unfavourable conditions and the frontline batsmen ie Crawley, Duckett and Root have ultimately thrown their wickets away. It could have been even worse. No one could pick the leg spinner and his googly fooled them all. He went through bat and pad of Stokes 4 or 5 times.

I don't understand Bazball if our most technically gifted batsmen in Root is encouraged to play 20 over cricket away in fecking India chasing 450.