The midfield three of Delph, Rice and Barkley must be one of the weakest that England have ever put out - and I'm including the Carlton Palmer years in that!!! (Actually that's harsh on Barkley who was very good, but Delph and Rice are nowhere near the standard required for a top international side)

And through the rest of the team it seemed to me a return to the bad old days of players picked on reputation or which club side they play for rather than form. Anyone that's seen Rashford play for Utd over the last 4 or 5 weeks of the season would know that he's hopelessly out of form - same with Kane in the Champions league final - why then did Callum Wilson not get a chance?

Jadon Sancho was probably our best player whilst he was on the pitch, but he's taken off (ahead of Sterling who was anonymous all night) and Lingard brought on - another who has been out of form at club level for a while now. And Dele Ali is another who is living off his reputation at the moment - whilst players in form, such as Maddison, Ward-Prowse, Redmond and Winks are all nowhere to be seen

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Parachute payments enable clubs who come down to support their high wage bill in the main. Its not just a booster of transfer budget.

Higher wage bills that enable clubs to sign better players. For instance I read somewhere that Dwight Gayle, at loan at WBA this season, is on £50k a week. I doubt we have anyone on even half of that - a point worth remembering when we’re comparing Rovers transfer business to other clubs’ and asking why we didn’t sign X or Y. 

I can understand the logic of taking up the option on Leutwiler. Not doing so leaves us with just 1 senior keeper and makes us even more desperate to sign a keeper, which in turn weakens our hand in any negotiation. I still expect a new keeper to sign and challenge Raya. 

I can also understand offering new contracts to Rodwell and (to a lesser extent) Conway. Obviously it depends on the terms that are offered, but I don’t think it’s the end of the world if either or both of those are re-signed. 

As for Gladwin - the LT explains that it’s about giving him chance to recover from his injuries. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17642162.rovers-boss-tony-mowbray-on-the-future-of-ben-gladwin/

As such it’s short term, minimal cost and about doing the honourable thing, rather than a football decision. And I think the club should be applauded for taking that stance and doing the right thing in a business that isn’t renowned for its ethics and honour. 

27 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The referee has to factor all the information available to him at the time before making his decision but he has to be sure that the covering defender would have got around to make the challenge. He clearly did think Williams would. I didn't.

As I said it's down to opinion.

Surely it’s the other way round? He would have to be sure that the defender wouldn’t get round in order to produce the red card. If there’s any doubt - and your debate with Stuart shows that there is - then surely he can’t send him off. 

For what it’s worth, I don’t think that Williams would have got back, but I do think that his position puts enough doubt into the refs mind to stop the red card

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

Missed this game...wedding day ?

I missed it too. Was a kid at the time and we didn’t have season tickets, so my dad would just take me to the games that I asked to go to. Usually I would look in midweek and see who we were playing and make a decision then. For some reason that week I forgot to look. I eventually saw the fixtures in the Saturday morning paper and asked if we could go, but my dad had already made other plans and so we missed it. I was almost in tears listening to it on Radio Lancs as I heard what I was missing out on!

The year after we got season tickets (and have had them ever since), I’m sure mainly because of my moaning about missing this game - which I’m still doing now nearly 30 years later!!

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

No we will not. At best we will be in Baby Blue & White.

I completely agree re the needless, at times, wearing of the away kit. I had assumed it was part of the kit manufacturing deal or a Waggott sales line.

All clubs seem to do it nowadays - for instance Man Utd were playing in their pink kit at Everton on Sunday and I’ve seen Derby wear their light grey 3rd kit on occasions when surely if they can wear that then they could have played in white, no?

You’re probably right that it’s something in the kit manufacturing deal that it has to be worn so many times or something 

1 hour ago, Stonesrick said:

And tell me when have you seen Evans and Smallwood burst into the box like he does?

29 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Never EVER has happened and never EVER will. Evans a tad above Smallwood however both Shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11. But hey, people still chant Smallwoods the king of ewood! 

First 15 seconds ?

Just now, DE. said:

We'd just been beaten 4-1 by Preston and 3-1 by Wigan so that probably would have been an indicator to be fair!

Fair point. Amend it to before the Preston game then!! 

Just now, Blue blood said:

So what's going to change over the summer to change the downward trend? TM hasn't a great record in the transfer window, he isn't using what he currently has well and hasn't showed any desire to change things when not working. On top of this we've a terribly unbalanced squad after 4 windows, why will a 5th make things any better? 

I don't know - but then if you'd told me at the end of November that we would currently be on the run that we are I wouldn't have believed you and would have asked what was going to change to make us fall down the league so spectacularly.

Just now, Stuart said:

I take back the plant comment.

But... I still can’t get on board with the idea that Mowbray has somehow earned extra time (longer than he has already been given), nor can I accept the “we won’t get anyone better” argument.

That’s not just me being belligerent, it’s down to what has happened at the club over the last 8.5 years. (Bloody hell, Venkys will have been here a decade soon!). We have managed to keep going despite changing managers - even under Venkys watch. They sacked Bowyer (too late) and brought in Lambert. They sacked Coyle (too late) and brought in Mowbray. The problems in both those cases were as much down to the “too late” as what happened with the replacement.

Maybe - but we've generally been on a downward trajectory ever since they arrived. At some point I believe we need some stability, some long-term planning, rather than just jumping from one manager to the next. Like I say, I'm not 100% convinced that Mowbray is the man to take us forward, but I kind of hope he is, and I can at least see some kind of long term plan, some forward planning - the players we signed, on the whole, have been young, hungry, youth internationals - mixed with the young players already in the u23's, hopefully we have a bright future over the next few years.

I like Mowbray and I want him to succeed, but more importantly I don't want to see us become the basket-case of a club that we were under Kean, Berg, Appleton, Lambert & Coyle. That's why I'm prepared to give him time. And why, if he does go, I'd want to see D Johnson get the gig.

Just now, Neal said:

The devil you know is taking us down. 

I disagree. We won’t get relegated this season (because of the points that Mowbray and the team garnered earlier in the season). 

If we start next season in the same form as we are ending this one then I’ll be right there with you in calling for his head

I also should add that part of the reason for being prepared to give him time is the realisation that a new manager would not necessarily be an upgrade and so, to some extent, it’s a case of better the devil you know 

Just now, Stuart said:

I think you are being extremely generous and ignoring our situation, and overplaying Mowbray’s abilities. Just look at his historic record.

He has already had four windows and money to bring in players to play “his preferred style of play” - two in this division. He still has glaring holes. He let our only defensive cover leave. These were his decisions. Our current plight is down to him.

The situation last season was a one-off and was more down to the players than the manager. We could get away with the lack of tactical nouse because we had better players than the opposition and we were frequently let off the hook, whereas we have been found out this season.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that our successes (last season & first half of this) are down to the players, but our struggles are down to the manager. Just as it wouldn’t be right to suggest the opposite. 

I’m not so blinded to Mowbray’s faults that I can’t see that he has made mistakes. Certainly he has, and our poor form ultimately must be laid at his door, but that shouldn’t detract from the good that he did prior to that, and our current run doesn’t just erase our good form earlier in the season - for which he deserves credit. 

I can understand your position and I am not a million miles from feeling the same (although I do think some on here got there far too quickly), but for the time being at least I’m prepared to give him more time. 

Just now, Stuart said:

Managers have life spans at certain levels.

Johnson is at the start of his, Mowbray is coming to the end, despite him being younger than he looks!

I’d be inclined to give longer to Damian Johnson in a similar situation than Mowbray, having see what type of football both of them try to play. D Johnson has more of a defined style than Mowbray does that’s for sure.

I agree to an extent, I’d love to see D Johnson given a chance, especially with the raft of exciting youngsters we have coming through. 

But, where we differ, is that I think Mowbray deserves an opportunity to see if he can turn things around. I’m not sure that he can, but last season and the first half of this one tells me he can get more out of the players than he is currently getting and I think he’s earnt some patience.

I’m also not convinced that our current style of play is Mowbray’s preferred style. I think he adopted something of a horses for courses approach last season and then decided to stick with it at the start of this rather than risk upsetting the balance of the squad by trying to change it too much. I’m interested to see if, given a full pre-season and the opportunity to bring players in over the summer, he can change it. Personally, I’d give him the summer and then review things at the end of September. 

Just now, Stuart said:

Johnson was a 35yo manager learning his trade. Mowbray is hugely experienced. A very different situation.

If Mowbray is still here in 2 years we will be a struggling League One side.

I’m not saying that it is an identical situation, just countering the often made argument that no other manager has ever kept their job in the midst of a similar bad run and also giving an example to show that this run doesn’t automatically have to lead to a struggle next season. 

I’m not saying that we will definitely improve ala Bristol City because there are no guarantees. Just as it is not certain that your prediction that we would find ourselves in league one under Mowbray is accurate. Football is unpredictable - if it wasn’t then I’d currently be counting my winnings from my treble on Bristol City, West Brom & Luton!!

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm usually reasonable but I can't stop getting the feeling we are going to be closer to relegation than some think. QPR, Rotherham and in particular Wigan may be our saving graces.

I just wonder if Wigan were doing well would more people be critical of Mowbray. Things seem to have moved to "well Rotherham and wigan are doing worse" as if this somehow makes this run we are on not significant. 

Can anyone remember a manager go on a run like this and not get sacked? I can't to be honest. 

Lee Johnson at Bristol City 2 years ago - a very similar situation to us, newly promoted, started the season very well and then went on a horrible run over about 15 games, only just staying up (at our expense) after looking like playoff contenders at one point. 

Lots of calls for him to be sacked by their fans, but the club stuck with him and they’ve improved each season and I imagine their fans are now glad they didn’t get what they were calling for. 

Let’s hope that in a couple of years we’re looking back on this current run in a similar way

26 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't think a manager publicly shaming a player can ever really be justified, barring exceptional circumstances.

Put it this way, if you were working for a company and made some mistakes, and your manager called you into a meeting and said you had to improve then you'd take it on board on work on it. If that manager then went to clients and said you'd been doing shit at your job, but he'd had a word and would get rid of you if you didn't improve, would that make you more motivated, or would you think your manager was an arsehole and not worth working for? 

I think most people would have the latter reaction, and whilst you can't compare football 1:1 with "normal" businesses it's still the same basic principle. Leaders don't inspire loyalty by publicly shaming those following them. 

The guy can't win. Get's asked a question about Raya in an interview - if he says that he's not concerned, that Raya is doing just fine, that everything will carry on as normal, then he'd be accused of being a clown who can't see what is obvious to everyone else.

But if, as he has done, he's honest and says that, yes we expect a better level of performance and that Raya's place is under pressure, then he is accused of publicly shaming a player to deflect from his own mistakes (which he admits to making in the interview btw, so a pretty lousy job of deflecting and hiding them).

You can start to understand why Mourinho would just sit and refuse to answer questions in his press conferences - we all want answers to questions, but whatever answer is given we want different ones.

14 hours ago, tomphil said:

Souness had a pecking order with Flitcroft running the dressing room and Short being the players PFA man or something, both could relay things back and forth without the need for confrontation between manager and players and also make sure each side didn't need to be bothered with certain stuff.

Nothing wrong with senior players having a bit of responsibility and carry a bit of clout but a real danger if the manager isn't a strong sort or doesn't keep a tight reign on it. Players deciding to change team tactics mid game is a new one though and could explain why we end up at sixes and sevens on occasion taking whoopings.

Surely team meetings are enough for that kind of thing.

That isn't what he said happened though. The players voiced an opinion (pre-game) on tactics that they thought would give them a better chance of being solid and competing. Mowbray listened and agreed to give them a go. When he saw that they weren't working, after about 20mins, he told the players to revert back to the gameplan and tactics that he has been coaching them in for the past 18 months.

Seems like decent man-management to me - suppose he had not listened to the players and just insisted that he was right and they had to play his way. Particularly given that we are not a great run of form at the moment, I'm not sure the players would have fully bought into that - plus if we had then ended getting beat, it perhaps further undermines Mowbray in the dressing room. Better this way, that the players can see that a) they are allowed some input and b) that the managers tactics actually do give them the best chance to compete.

And for those saying that no other manager allows this kind of thing - I seem to remember a documentary about Italia 90 where it was said that Lineker and some other senior players went to Bobby Robson after the first game against Ireland, and asked him to let them play the sweeper system, which allowed them to give Gazza a more free-role in the midfield. It worked out pretty well for them (that semi-final is still one of my most upsetting football memories) and Robson didn't do too bad in football management either - when you hear ex-players,  like Lineker, Shearer, Gascoigne etc talk about him, it is obvious how much they liked, respected and wanted to work for him - perhaps that wouldn't have been the case if he had had a more dictatorial approach, who know

He said it’s not really a full English, just sausage and beans and a bit of toast. 

I seem to remember a former Rovers player saying he had chicken and beans before a game, which isn’t too dissimilar, and I think he did ok

I had this argument once with Robbie Savage via Twitter. I get that for players and clubs playing at the highest level possible is the be all and end all, however for fans surely winning (and maybe even playing well) is just as, if not more, important. 

For example, I enjoyed our trips to Rochdale, Bury & Fleetwood last season far more than my last visit to Old Trafford under Big Sam when we got tonked 7-2. 

As another example, does anyone truly believe that Fulham fans are enjoying this season more than last season?

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

 

Personally I wouldn’t have subbed Travis. We can’t keep subbing players who are on yellows, that’s a nonsense. We very much missed his positivity and nobody could really replace that. Amazing how far that lad has come in such a short space of time.

Always interesting to see how people see the game differently. Personally I’d have taken Travis off at halftime, and not because he was on a yellow card. I thought he had a poor game, wanted too much time on the ball and gave the ball away cheaply time and again - I think potentially it showed just how important Evans is in there alongside him. 

He wasn’t alone though. Reed also was below his usual standard and Dack looked off the pace. And the less said about Williams the better. 

As someone else has said, unfortunately we’re not a good enough team to win if we’re not all on our game and it showed today

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

If we don't bring anyone in it shows one of two things. Either that we don't have the ambition to make a push on the top 6 or that the budget was blown on Brereton and there is no money left. Either way its disappointing as we have needed another striker since the summer.

Or 3) The right player wasn't available at the right deal - fee + wages

And whilst some of the money that may go toward a fee went on Brereton, I suspect it is the wages that is the actual stumbling block for us in regard to BA and Austin and there is no way that Brereton is earning anything like what we would need to spend on those players

By the way - can you imagine the uproar on here if the striker we brought in in this window was some unheard of lad from the non-leagues??

6 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Haven’t we just signed a virtually unheard of Gibraltan? 

Plus a 21 year old Irish lad who seems to be holding his own so far on loan in the Scottish Premiership.

Before that we picked up a young striker called Joe Nuttall who had been released from Aberdeen and seems to have a decent future ahead of him. And before him there was a young lad by the name of Lewis Travis who we picked up from Liverpool's academy (maybe you've heard of him?)

But, no, of course it's right to say that our recruitment is flawed and we don't ever pick up bargains or potential stars of the future. We only ever pay over the odds for flops don't you know??

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It was patched up but made far more unconvential by Mowbrays spontaneous decision to change to a formation that left more square pegs in round holes than round ones! So yes sympathy with the injuries and illnesses but equally he deserves criticism for playing the system he did. The gap between Bennett (who couldnt overlap being on the wrong side) and Bell was very troublesome.

You mention Brereron, you say you think he will look good, I ask the same of @DaveyB is that literally just blind hope? As age alone is not enough to suggest potential. What does he offer?

Very fair post otherwise.

Not saying he will definitely come good, rather that, at 19, he has the time and opportunity to develop and so it’s worth baring that in mind when making a judgment on him. I’d wager that most professional players, outside of the very top ones, would have looked out of place in the first team at 19 - even Fergie’s ‘kids’ at Utd were around 21 when they became regulars. 

So - yes to an extent - maybe it is just blind hope - but going off last nights game - if you watched that in isolation, you’d say that Brereton had more going for him than Conway (and probably Bennett). Plus Mowbray must presumably see some potential in him, and I assume he’s a) seen more of Brereton than I have and b) knows more about what makes a good footballer than I do