I wanted to raise the question of whether season 20/21 was unusually bad for U23s injuries. I wonder whether it was coincidence or whether other issues were at play. Whitehall, Saadi, Barnes and Gilsenan missed the majority of the season, I believe. Cirino missed something like  half of it. Ash Phillips was regularly out during the campaign. That's five or six starters that missed major chunks, if not most, of the season.

I believe Gilsenan injured an anterior cruciate ligament, causing long-term absence and Cirino was out with a serious hamstring injury. Whitehall will miss, apparently, another five months, with his foot injury - giving him a few months to come back and prove he's worth of a further contract extension, which will be a tall order. The others are back fit, I think.

Billy Barr released by Salford, where he was assistant manager. He did well with the U23 job here, would anyone want him back in some capacity? Presumably, now he's had a taste of a more senior role, albeit League 2, he'll be looking for something comparable. I don't know anything about his time at Salford and how good a coach he is or isn't, so would be interested to know views from those who might do.

A place to talk about history and share recommendations of what you are currently reading, watching, listening or thinking about. Feel free to share on the local to the international - whatever is holding your interest and want to share.

If you share links, please give some written context to help us decide whether we want to find out more.

If you want to debate history, please keep on topic. Some more recent history might be better placed in other threads but I appreciate that it is all connected.

Liverpool's signing of Carvalho from Fulham seems part of a worrying trend of newly promoted sides getting raided before a chance to kick a ball in the new league. We saw it with Norwich selling Buendia, after promotion, to Villa. I think back to when Rovers were promoted in the early 2000s and what the consequences would have been for the team had one of Duff, Dunn or Jansen been sold. Even with effective substitutes, would Europe and the Worthington Cup have followed? It was inconceivable, at the time, though we knew, eventually, they'd move on, if successful. The growing divide is truly killing off the game as it was.

Has the Premier League always finished 2 weeks after the end of the normal football league fixtures? I'm pretty sure not or maybe I've not noticed. It seems wrong that there isn't more coordination, as we have with the start of the season, to maintain some semblance of shared experience and solidarity.

McBride's career has not taken off and he's been a sub for Queen's Park and not scored a goal, as far as I know. However, they have won the play offs and will play in the second tier next year, so, perhaps, they'll try to sign him.

On the face of it, seems nothing to lose to let him go but I do believe that there were some mis-steps in helping his development, after he was nominated for the PL2 player of the year shortlist, after something like 13 goals and 6 assists. Foremost, he needed a loan last summer. Also he was more deserving, at the time, than players like Pike and Annesley who got new deals but are almost certainly going to leave the club next year.

However, he did have a bad season, lost the faith of the management and struggled on loan, so it comes as no surprise he's going. I'd have kept him for another year. He's a different type of forward to Burns and Vale. But we'll have to see where his career goes next.

17 hours ago, tomphil said:

Magloire is with the same agent who's been around for years and Butterworth i think is with another large one who have quite a few in here.

Just goes to show somebody (Suhail probably) operates above the manager with agents. 

That's why i fear a young pliable coach slotting in whilst he's given what he's told to use.

Magloire and Butterworth need to be heavily involved in pre-season to see if they can contribute. Then, a further extension can be considered, or letting them disappear on loan and off. What can't happen is the disgraceful situation with Chapman, where he was given a new short-term deal, unexpectedly, and not given much of a chance to justify it at Rovers and then banished on loan - where, admittedly, he largely failed. However, the potential demoralisation of being brought back in from the cold before being sent away again couldn't have helped - unless there's more to it than that which we aren't aware of.

Otherwise, these deals make no sense whatsoever, as no-one is going to pay a fee for them and if they do in Jan 2023, then it means they've turned around their career and Rovers would likely want to keep them. Moreover, Magloire is 23 years old and Butterworth 22 years old, so, for the sake of their careers, the fair thing is to get a chance or be let go to make their way elsewhere.

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What was that Spanish winger called that Souey bought - Javier Pedro ? He lasted whilst half time in one game.

Ah, yes, Javier De Pedro, Spanish international and Real Sociedad legend. It seemed an exciting signing but it turned a terrible move for all, as he wasn't physically capable any more. Another of the deals that helped me understand that it's best to have no expectations about signings, no matter how impressive their record. If I was a Man City fan, I wouldn't be that excited about the Haaland signing. You look at Lukaku and others and it could easily be underwhelming. 

We fans are used somewhat with signings and we are not party to the back-dealings and all the history. Who would have known this about one of our big money signings of the past (taken from Wiki): "In the first season with the Umbrian team he was held back by a rare disease, Ledderhose disease, which almost prevented him from walking and for which he often ended up under the knife...During the Ancona period, in March 2004 he also returned to suffer from Ledderhose disease which had already struck him in the past in Terni, and which caused the thickening of the foot arch making it difficult even just to walk." 

-

Without new signings, I'd be looking to integrate Cirino, the left back, into the squad and possibly, the team (Assuming he makes a full recovery from his current injury). He's the only defender I can think of at the club who has decent pace, and we'll need it, whether from new signings or U23 players. Perhaps, Brown might provide that but will have to see more of him.






 

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Not a clue really. His highlights reel (I know) had some very impressive saves, we paid something like 2-300k for him, and at a young age he had already played 75 pro games, plus a few for Greece u21s, turned down Roma and Olympiakos in favour of regular football and been nominated for the Golden Boy (best young player in Europe) so I think a lot of us thought he was going to be our number 2.

Then 10 days later, Mowbray signed his mate's son, who we know is piss poor (though tbf, had played at this level for Boro) and the lad hasn't had a look in. He doesn't seem to have consistently impressed onlookers in the u23s and gets rotated with the other young keepers. I can imagine it being a bit dispiriting for a lad who has turned down big moves before to play regularly, that we almost immediately brought in another number 2. Needs to pick himself up and fulfil his potential or unlikely to make it here.

LancsLive reported that he was signed for around £100k, though, I believe, officially, it was undisclosed. I think he was shaky early on but seems to have received some positive reviews more recently.

However, he was recently on the U23 bench behind Felix Goddard, an 18 year old in what is the bizarre game of goalie musical chairs in the U23s, where the management alternate between Eastham, Dowling, Stergiakis and now Goddard every game, with each rarely playing two consecutive games lately. 

Eastham was ahead of him on the bench for the last game of the season vs. Birmingham, which casts doubt on Stergiakis' future and whether the management rate him. There's also Joe Hilton who is with the club but is almost always out on loan, who has another year left on his deal.

The biggest football transfer or deal of the summer, in terms of legacy, ahead of even Erling Haaland, might involve Vivianne Miedema of Arsenal women, who is out of contract and mulling over whether to stay on or go somewhere where she can win major honours on a regular basis. She may well go on to be one of the greatest women's football strikers, if she isn't already. I'd be interested to know what others think.

A difficulty I wonder about in the women's game is the inequality within the women's professional game. The world record transfer is, apparently, around £250k, paid to Wolfsburg by Chelsea for Pernille Harder, in 2020 -  clearly trailing a great way behind the grotesque excess of the men's professional top leagues. However, is the intense acceleration of those women's teams with Premier League men's team business infrastructure behind them, going to leave the rest behind? And if so, it will surely be problematic for the development of the game if it is too easy for the top clubs and international nations? 

My knowledge of the women's pro game is very limited, I must say, so these are only tentative musings. I suppose, it might be that it is not much different from the men's game with the money of the Premier League disappearing into outer space from the perspective of the rest. Albeit, there was, I suppose, a longer development history which enabled leagues and clubs to grow in, perhaps, a more equal way, before the huge money flooded in?

I read a LET online published quote from last summer in which Mowbray said that if the main contract hold-outs didn't sign new deals, they'd stay and see out their contract: “In the future moving forward, Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell are in similar situations and we’ll have to deal with that and see how we go. For me, talking to the club, let’s get this window finished and see if we can address some of the situations, see where we are financially, and if we can’t offer new improved contracts then they are going to run," Mowbray was quoted as saying on 7 Aug 2021, as Armstrong was about to be sold.

It seemed, at the time, Mowbray and the club were quite relaxed or unplanned regarding the situation, which is part of the problem, as to protect transfer values, valuable players ideally shouldn't enter their final years, when they will likely hold out to see their options.

Rather than repeatedly complain that Nyambe can't do the basics of crossing or cutting back the ball and drop him at intervals, Mowbray should have, perhaps, pushed for a transfer to find someone he does like. Nyambe, as a young, fairly experienced right back with some decent international football experience would have, I guess, commanded a reasonable fee back in 2021.

Fortunately, the club have successfully acted regarding Kaminski but thought needs to go to Brereton-Diaz, as well as Dack, who has a one year option but that shouldn't be relied upon, if Rovers can help it.

I vaguely remember a pre-season during, I think, the Souness regime, when in not a single game, as far as I remember, did we play our strongest eleven. It might've been on one of those Austrian tours, playing mostly amateurs and lower league sides. As feared, we started the season badly and Souness still hadn't worked out his best eleven. I think that happened, though, it's a vague memory.

Ideally, you test out fitness and players early on and then play your strongest eleven in the final games to develop some cohesion.

Harry Chapman quotes from the LET website:  “When I was at Blackburn, I used to travel from Hartlepool ever day, a two-hour slog there and a two-hour slog back. I think that affected performances because my body wasn’t right from all the travelling. Living locally, I’ve definitely reaped the rewards from that."

To me, this adds to the big question marks over renewing Chapman's contract. It's a personal decision for him as to where to live, which he has every right to make but if Mowbray thinks he's not committed on the pitch and for personal reasons he's staying in Hartlepool, it's fairly clear that there's not much a future for him at the club.

I haven't followed the SPL but was surprised to see that the league top scorer is a Ross County player, Regan Charles-Cook, with 13 goals. Presumably the Old Firm have used a lot of players (including the January signings) and the goals have been shared around? 

One player I've always admired in the SPL is Tom Rogic, the Australian midfielder, who has, it seems, periods of favour and then disfavour. His contract expires in 2023, I read, and, though, he's been back in form, he might be available for a club that can afford him. 

Farke won two promotions, I believe, at Norwich. Just scanning his signings, it looks like he had a few big successes in Pukki, Buendia and maybe, Rupp. However, the majority, including, his German recruits seem to have fallen by the wayside. That said, I really don't know enough about the players and the context.

Edit: Looking a bit more closely, it looks like several of the signings like Tom Trybull, Stieperman, Hernandez and Vrancic did play a lot of games and were probably short to medium term signings who helped the club rise but came short in the Premier League.

It looks as if there was a very high turnover of playing staff, with a lot of foreign signings coming through the doors, as well as gambles on Premier League reserve signings.

On 03/05/2022 at 18:30, blondie said:

Durrant has had a trial game at Sheffield Wednesday.

Apparently, he scored for their U23s recently, as a trialist, so a good start for him in trying to get a contract. Sheff Wed would be a great move, if he can get it. He has the potential to be a decent player, I guess, based on my very limited viewing, as he seemed very disciplined defensively, quick and decent on the ball. I would have thought he'd try to get a loan move away whilst he was here. Joe Nolan got on the bench ahead of him in pre-season for the firsts, in the game against Leeds, so, unless he was injured at the time, the writing was on the wall.

Mowbray urges Nyambe to sign on for Rovers... by calling out his game flaws: 

 "I feel for him, I love him to bits, I’ve been with him for over five years, he’s like a son. What are you doing? I feel as though he needs to stay, and grow, and learn, be better at bending that ball down the line, at chipping it to the back stick, getting to the byline and cutting it back for the striker to tap it in, I just hope he’s making the right choices."

I must credit Mowbray on persevering with Buckley. He's probably mismanaged him by moving him around to unfamiliar and, frankly, unsuitable positions, including false 9 and right back but he kept picking him, at least. I believe Mowbray brought Zoltan Gera and Robert Koren into English football, whilst at WBA, and, even though Mowbray, to my mind, has lost his way in keeping up with the tactical evolution in the game, he's at least doggedly stuck by the principle of fielding technically gifted midfielders (if not always in midfield).

The Buckley wonder strike against Birmingham indicated to me just what he's capable of, if he works with the right coaches and, also, develops mentally himself. He beat a man, spread play, across the pitch and then got the return and hit a sweet strike to score.

I feel that sometimes his game is about style over substance, and, just sometimes, the style and the substance are matched, such as in the goal which, it seems, he hit with the outside of his boot, or, at least, not conventionally. I don't mind style, at all, and Buckley has a unique, effortless style on the ball but if he could match that with regular outcomes, he could be a really top player.

The Hedges situation sums up Mowbray's difficulties in recent years. He seems to have signed a useful player, at least, technically, clearly gifted but then can't get the best out of him. In Hedges case, he wasn't included in the team until the season had got away from us. Mowbray has claimed that Hedges wasn't ready for some reason but nor was Gallagher, ready as a right winger and he was a fixture in the team.

The same might be said of Buckley. His wonder goal on Saturday was all the more impressive because he started it by beating a man and hitting a cross-field pass, before getting it back. He's got a lot of attributes but it seems that he's most suited to the deeper role where he can play those passes - rather than as a forward. Moreover, he lacks conviction at times and is clearly not ready to be a forward - and may never be one, though, he had an impact there during the winning run.

At the Rovers end of season drinks...

"Eh, Aynsley -"

"Gaffer, it's me -"

"Aynsley, you're like a son to me. I always -"

"Gaffer, it's me, Chappy. You're not that sloshed are ya? How many -"

"Chappy, I didn't recognise you without your fuckin' Alice band. What's going on, where's Aynsley? Where's the others?"

"Dunno, gaffer. I reckon they've called it a night, you know."

"Called it a night, my arse. I'm no spring chicken, you know. I've been around. I know what you lads are like. They've fucked off to an unofficial party or something. They'll be going until tomorrow."

"Maybe, gaffer. The coaches have fucked off and all."

"What are you doing here, Chappy? Thought you'd be breaking your neck to get to the club. I know what you're like. Fucking cheeky chappy."

"Gaffer, I wanted to ask you something -"

"You want to go and see if the Indian's open, Chappy? I fancy one."

"Fuck me, I thought you might've had enough of Indians, gaffer."

"You know, Chappy. I like you. If you'd just cut out those faces and the back chat, you'd be in my team. We could've done with you. Fucking look at how Mahrez has turned out. I gave him the big build up - mind you, the scouts need a look at themselves. Telling me all about his assists and set-pieces. Fucking shite -"

"Mahrez, gaffer?"

"Yeah, Rinan - Riyeed - you know - fucking Riyeed Mahrez. He's gone back to Wolves now."

"You mean Ryan Giles?"

"What son?"

"Gilesy - the lad on loan from Wolves?"

"Fucking African Nations my arse. Made me look a knobhead. I tell you Chappy, there were times when I was thinking of you. Then, I woke up! Ha ha ha!"

"Gaffer, you mean Gilesy? Ryan Giles - the Wolves lad? Or do you mean  the Dutch lad? Zeefuik?"

"Damn right, the fuck. What the fuck was what I was thinking. I thought I'd got in a world class winger and I got that. I even dropped Gally."

"Anyway, gaffer, I wanted to know -"

"Alright, alright, Chappy, you deserve to know. You fancy being a manager, Chappy? You'll see what it's like having a little scrote in an Alice band giving you chat. Ha ha - no seriously, Chappy, I knew you had potential - a lot of potential. Look at what Ben's done. You could be as good. I mean it Chappy. You were as good as him at youth level. But, I wasn't getting enough from you and then I got wind that Poveda and Clarkson were available and you know - "

"No, gaffer -"

"I know - I know. You done alright at Shrewsbury but that's League One, you know. There's a huge difference -

"Gaffer -"

"Give me a chance, Chappy. Jesus. I know, I gave you the one year deal and then told you to fuck off. But, put it this way, it was a decent deal - you can't say you didn't do alright out of it. A lot of players didn't get deals, you know. And, you got a chance at Burton. It's not my fault you didn't take that chance. I saw some your games and shite doesn't cover it. I spoke to Jimmy -"

"Gaffer, that's not why I'm here - "

"Well, Chappy, that's a big question. None of us know the answer to that. If we knew that, we'd somewhere else. You know, Davenport once said to me that he reckoned that he had a higher purpose than passing sideways and I told him, damn right. His purpose was in the fucking reserves. Another terrible signing. But a good lad. But, jesus, what are you young lads like, worrying about your purpose in life."

"Jesus, gaffer, you're sloshed, big time."

"There is no purpose, Chappy. We're just here to do the best we can and have a bit of fun along the way. Some of the fans give me stick for trying things, you know, but I say, fuck them. What's the fun in playing Gally as a striker? That reminds, me, where's Aynsley?"

"Gaffer, seriously. I just wanted to ask if you'd put a word in for me at Boro. My agent's hearing things about a trial and that."

"Is that it? Fucking hell, Chappy, I thought you were a man. I've slagged you off for three years and you come asking me to put in a word. You should be trying to knock my lights out."

"Thanks, gaffer."

"I'll tell them you're a fucking pansy Burton-reject."

"Alright, boss. Have a good one." 

We had the squad and players but not the manager to get over the line.

Am I right in thinking that Mowbray persevered with Gallagher as a wing forward for two seasons, until the final games of this season? I suppose he looks at Real Madrid and wonders what they could achieve if Benzema was out wide.

Edit: Mowbray deserves credit for assembling the squad, having the desire to play passing football and including technically gifted players like Buckley, who another manager may have given up on. But, Mowbray's attempts to mould the team and his decision-making was simply not good enough, in general.

27 minutes ago, Miker said:

Edun pretty terrible... need considerably better quality in the middle of the park next season.

I think Garrett should've been in ahead of him. Edun has struggled in most games. 

6 minutes ago, AspRover said:

Lenihan on the bench, does that indicate he may be signing a new deal or am I clutching at straws?

I think it might mean that he's captain and favoured by Mowbray, so doesn't get dropped out of the squad like Rothwell and Nyambe.

2 hours ago, rigger said:

I am put off going to the official Rovers site, because of the inane grinning idiot on the first page.

He's lost much credibility after that the astonishing decision to play Bradley Johnson as a forward. You might find some way to excuse Giles and Zeefuik as right wingers - maybe, at a stretch, Gallagher, but not that one and I'm sure the players can't take him as seriously after that. Incidentally, Giles has the joint top assist record of our players, alongside Rothwell, with 10 assists this season - albeit, the majority were for Cardiff, where he played on the left and also took corners.

Johnson as a false 9, perhaps, surpasses Souness' desperate choices of Dominic Matteo in left midfield and Dino Baggio as a No.10, during his final period at the club, when the team was in free-fall.

Putting that aside, it would be welcome to see Garrett and Vale rewarded for their U23s form (and played in their best positions) and I'd like to see Nyambe play, as he has been our best right back and deserves a good send-off, if he is to leave. Moreover, the stats that some have dug out here seem to show that we are much more likely to win if he's in the team.