35 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

One question I've got is really how different a setup was it to Mowbray really if we're honest. Very similar.

And I don't mean that as a negative to JDT just that really the way Mowbray set us up wasn't that daft. He wanted Nyambe out, he played Gallagher on the wing and BBD on the left.

It may well evolve over time but it's hardly chalk and cheese. People got fed up with Mowbray but he played a similar game to what we saw today.

So I guess the question is what does JDT need to do to be better than Mowbray as that's what we all want to move onwards and upwards?

Interesting point and I do believe that Gallagher in a wide forward role will be a failure, as it was with Mowbray.

However, Mowbray was keen on a lone No.10 or false 9, depending on what you want to call it. Last season saw range of midfielders put up there,  from my recollection, including Poveda, Clarkson, Johnson, Buckley and Dolan. Tomasson looks like he favours a centre forward, though, it is only one game and I can imagine Dolan or Dack getting a run out there too.

I can't help but regret that Rovers didn't get Reda Khadra back to the club. I didn't follow the transfer stories, so don't know the details of his situation, but having him and Dolan provide pace in the forward positions would be ideal - and, perhaps, finally, consign Gallagher to a central role or to the bench.

It's great to see Buckley finally played in his likely strongest position. We still really need another CM - a gap in the squad that has been evident for, perhaps, three years and somehow still not addressed. I want to see Garrett step up but another player would help the youngsters and, hopefully, mean Travis doesn't have to play virtually every minute of every game.

Should Vale make an impact this season, which looks a possibility but, of course, unproven as yet, it will just reinforce, to me, the likely counter-productive and irrational mismanagement by the prior regime in sending out experienced U23s hopefuls (competing in Premier League 2, against Premier League fringe reserves) into non-league. In Vale's case, he was sent to semi-pro FC Halifax on a half-season loan, last year. Dan Pike, went to AFC Fylde for two separate month-long spells, in the sixth tier. Sam Burns had a month at FC United mid-season.

The principle that most clubs operate by is to loan youngsters out to clubs at the highest level possible where they can get reasonable game time. In Rovers case, it seems to me, that that principle was abandoned and players were/are sent out without due diligence or due regard for the progress of the player. I can't prove it but I'm sure that Jack Vale, a prolific Welsh U21 forward would have had, during the transfer window periods, interest from league clubs. The season before, I believe he had an injury hampered spell at Rochdale. Last year, Sam Burns eventually got a loan spell at Scunthorpe, having come back to the club. Connor McBride had interest, it was reported, from league clubs at the start of last season, though, at the time the club blocked all loans. Even Tyler Magloire, whose form has not been great, got a league club loan, eventually.

All this will be forgotten in the case of Vale, if he makes an impact. It might be the case that the spell at FC Halifax, which, as a half-season loan, gave him more time than the bitty one-month deals, was beneficial to his game and mentality to make a breakthrough. David Raya had a season, I believe, at Southport.

Nonetheless, overall, the policy, I feel will be detrimental to the club and other players will not be so fortunate. It is/was an irrational or lazy policy, akin to lining up pre-season friendlies against non-league opposition, in preparation for a Championship campaign. Or as questionable as a Premier League club loaning out highly rated U23 players to play in non-league - or, even at the bottom of League 2.

All that said, my case is based on the presumption that these players could, with the right moves from the club, have got higher quality loans, which I am fairly sure of, in many cases, but cannot, of course, prove.

Not a Rovers link but I think a potentially very bad omission if the club didn't look at Josh Laurent who just signed for Stoke on a free, from Reading. He has been superb at this level, though last season Reading were poor and, I suppose, he didn't perform. If he could return to his prior form, will be an excellent signing - potentially, a Championship signing of the summer.

It's a very sad reflection of the state of the internet - and our society - that vitally important political discussion has to be hidden in case it upsets a few people. I'm not exaggerating when I say in the history of mankind, political discussion and forums have never been more important, given the immense dangers we face. I really appreciated the opportunity to not only post here but to have a lot of engagement. No doubt, the people being upset and causing real difficulties aren't the average poster but those with the capacity to indulge and attack in legal or commercial threats.

I appreciate the work of the mods and those who run the website and credit to you for even keeping the political discussion alive, albeit, hidden. Credit for also facilitating open speech, where debate and controversy was permitted, despite the prohibitive environment for it. To reduce mod demands, there was the potential for amalgamating the multiple threads, eg. unions, climate change and so on, into one more manageable thread - though, I appreciate extensive moderation would still be required.

If legal, commercial or other threat - or the potential for it - was a factor in this censorship, alongside the practical issue of demands on mod times, I'd be hopeful that the web team would be open enough to acknowledge it. 

Thanks, again.

Edit: I wonder, for the future, if standard post numbers capping per user per day (and post editing capping) could be implemented to help with moderation demands, on particularly demanding threads?

Starts for the first time for Ireland in their Nations League game against Ukraine, which may well be his breakthrough moment for their first team. Rovers have prepared him very well for his time at Boro. I wish him well but can't help but feel disappointed that we are losing a solid player for nothing in, you would think, the prime of his career. Just terrible management/running of the club.

There is simply too much professional football and it's unfair to put players through it. No Nations League player deserves criticism for a poor performance when they are being mistreated like this by the authorities. The pro game is becoming, as far as I can tell, ever more demanding physically and they are being asked to play more tournaments.

Former Rovers youth striker, Jamie Maclaren, should make it to the World Cup with Australia, if he stays fit. He's done very well in the A-League but not a starter at the moment for Australia, I think.

I think it would be a big surprise if any club actually paid for Ayala. I think it probably will be more likely that he'd negotiate a release and go on a free - that's if the rumours are true, which we don't know. If a bid did come in, there really should be little hesitation, I think. We'd need to bring in a experienced CB anyway, as most of our defenders are lacking experience. 

On a different note, I saw that Rich Sharpe in the LET online, discussing Jacob Davenport and his potential move to Aberdeen stated: "The 23-year-old managed only 36 appearances across an injury-hit stay with Rovers, and didn’t feature at all in 2022."

I think that's possibly inaccurate, as, from my memory, Davenport wasn't injured so often but just overlooked by Mowbray. I could be wrong.

Darragh Lenihan set to join Boro on a 4 year deal, apparently. I feel it's long been inevitable and the club should've cashed in when Sheff Utd and West Brom were sniffing around last summer. However, with over 230 appearances for the club and serving as captain, he's been a very good player for the club, though, the defence, as a whole, has been very disappointing until this past season, when van Hecke and Wharton steadied the ship. 

Lenihan came through the Rovers reserves having been signed as a 17 year old from Dublin youth side, Belvedere in 2011. He had to wait to get his break, which came on loan at Burton Albion, in 2014, under Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, where he played in midfield, before returning to Rovers and eventually being given his Rovers debut as a defender by Gary Bowyer, in 2015, aged 21 years, against Millwall, coming on for Matt Kilgallon. It was in defence that he became a mainstay and his days of midfield were long forgotten - though, a brilliant display at right back near the end of last season makes me wonder whether he has a future in that position - though, unlikely at Boro, with their quality wing backs.

He's now 28 and will surely be looking to reach his peak, after his development plateaued somewhat at Rovers, not helped by periods of 'firefighting' in bizarre formations. He'll also want to add to his two Irish international caps - (if I remember rightly, he's the first County Meath-born player to get a senior cap). He got called into the Nations League squad, recently, but has been, I believe, left out of the matchday squads.

I think Boro's RCB is Dijksteel, who is highly rated, so Lenihan might have a challenge to break into the team, or play elsewhere in the backline, but, overall, I see him doing well there, injuries and luck permitting.

I think it cannot be overlooked how beneficial the youth recruitment and reserve team/U23s has been for the current side, with several first teamers having progressed from that level and, in the case of Nyambe, Buckley and Wharton, come through the juniors too.

It was a big mistake not to sell Lenihan last summer, assuming there was a buyer, as it seemed quite likely he wouldn't stay on. His reputation is good enough to command a decent fee, I think, and, as mentioned, he was probably replaceable with a bit of luck.

With Wharton's end of season form, aside from the potential fitness and physical issues raised and the general disintegration of the team, I think opposition teams worked out the lack of pace in Rovers back line, particularly, with Pickering and Wharton on the left.

We once had a defence of Martin Taylor, Berg, Short and Gresko, that did well for a while, playing deep, despite being very slow, relatively speaking, which shows it could be done. However, in the now popular 4-3-3 formations, the full backs have to provide width and pace, I suspect, has become even more important. It is imperative, I feel, for Rovers to find a quick and effective defender or two for the next season, to support the players we have. Be that from the reserves/youth or new signings.

Sharing from another thread:

16 hours ago, Gav said:

BBC4 Wednesday 9pm - Thatcher: A Very British Revolution. Followed by The Falklands Play.

2 brilliant programs from BBC for anyone who hasn’t seen them.  

I can't think of any new recruits for the U23s last summer, which, may have been a mistake, despite the strong campaign the prior season - especially, as first team fringe players were not used much at all. The team went on to struggle with injuries and poor form, avoiding relegation from PL2 with an impressive late revival.

In the past, I'm sure youth recruitment was more active - though others who know more about this will be able to clarify. We always had several Irish youth players in the team and often Scotsmen. It seems the net is smaller now, though the club did bring in McBride from Celtic and Gilsenan.

This could mean better focus on recruitment and development, rather than the revolving that clubs sometimes have with youngsters struggling to settle in a new place/country. But it might, on the other hand, also mean missing out on the next Duff, Judge, Lenihan or Hanley, if scouting is cut back too much.

I think last season exemplified that players reach a certain age and experience where U23s doesn't necessarily aid their development and leaving them there, especially, in a weakened side, can cause stagnation. ( I hasten to add that scrappy loans to non-league don't do much either, I suspect, in most cases).

As well as new recruits to help the new tranche of promoted U18s, players like Garrett, Barnes, Eastham, Cirino, Vale, Burns will need a next developmental step, be it on loan at a decent level or involvement with firsts. Otherwise, I can see them fading away badly like those who have been released this summer.

On 29/05/2022 at 21:54, Mattyblue said:

The Wind that Shakes The Barley is a great film on the Civil War, with Cillian Murphy.

People often get confused with Irish politics and wonder why two centre-right parties have historically been the two that have contested power and not one each from left and right.

It goes back to the Civil War - Fianna Fàil being anti treaty, party of Eamon De Valera, and Fine Gael (Michael Collins) being for it.

That's interesting - it sounds as if the nationalism and independence drive that took precedence over individual rights, particularly, worker rights somehow got entrenched long-term? The Irish Labour Party & TUC opted out of electoral politics for two elections after WW1, which, maybe, set the tone, I've heard some say that James Connolly, the socialist leader and a founder of the Irish Labour Party, who took part in the Easter Rising 1916 - and was amongst those executed by the British authorities - made a mistake in not insisting on a socialist manifesto within the Proclamation of Independence that was issued in those six days of uprising in Dublin. Thus, his and the legacy of the Irish Citizen Army, the Labour movement militia, was easier to ignore? Though, I'm not sure how receptive the other uprising leaders were to labour or how influential the precise text of the Proclamation was. (The uprising, itself, against the odds in 1916 when Britain was heavily militarised for war and Irishmen were volunteering in the British Army to fight Germany, is considered a mistake by some too)

I suppose it is very difficult, when your country is at war against outside rulers and then is partitioned and given self-government, over which terms an internal war commences, to convince people to think about civil rights, be it women's or workers' issues, for example. Also, I believe that the nationalist movements had agents and advocates in the Irish labour movement who sought to relegate its voice and power, including, perhaps, by encouraging the severing of ties with English trade unions.

Reflecting on McBride's departure, I'm even more convinced that the club has made a major mistake in managing him and it's reflective of wider mismanagement of some young players. The player's valuation was relatively high after 20/21 PL2 season, finishing Rovers top scorer and helping the team to 5th in the league. Then was the moment to send him on loan to a league team or give him a few appearances with the firsts, as a sub, and his valuation would've likely grown, if he did ok.

If the club deemed him surplus, they could've possibly got money for him, on the basis of that senior experience, in a way that we did with Joe Nuttall. Instead, he gets sent out to Queen's Park in January and now goes for nothing. Of course, there's no guarentee that it would've been any different had he been managed differently - he may have failed on loan in League One/Two - but, at least, we would've tried to protect the player's valuation and development better.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, will be looking into them. I've been watching/reading a little about the Irish Civil War that occurred during 1922-23, with a sort of civil war targeting, particularly, Catholics, in newly formed Northern Ireland, occurring concurrently at this time too. Civilians and police were being assassinated almost every day 100 years ago, in both NI and the Irish Free State.

The Civil War in the Ireland, for those who aren't familiar, started as there was a split in the IRA, with a section deeply opposed to the Anglo-Irish Treaty that the Irish independence leaders negotiated with the British government in 1921, led by David Lloyd George, Churchill and others. That agreement won a ceasefire and self-governance in Ireland after years of brutal fighting against Crown forces for independence but its terms meant remaining a dominion of the British Empire, Irish politicians having their own parliament but having to swear allegiance to the Crown, most British military withdrawing and, as part of the a deal,  partition of Ireland, with six counties in the north-east forming Northern Ireland and remaining in the UK. Apparently, the requirement to swear allegiance to the Crown was the biggest issue for the IRA in the south.

The majority of the public, including a slim majority in the new Sinn Féin government, supported this "independence to gain independence" Anglo-Irish Treaty - Ireland would formally leave the British commonwealth and became a republic in 1949 - so, to my mind, this seems as if it became a coup attempt by the anti-Treaty IRA - but it's not a phrase I've seen describing the situation, so I might be misinterpreting it.

June 28th will mark what historians generally consider the start of the Civil War, though, violence and negotiations had been occurring for months. Whilst Ireland is, of course, marking this centenary, in Britain, I suppose, it will be considered unbecoming to talk about in this Platinum Jubilee year. In Ireland there has been a "Decade of Centenaries" national programme, starting with commemoration of the 1916 Easter Rising, I believe. If you think of the Irishmen, nationalist and unionist, who fought in the British Army during WW1, those who were affected by the Irish War of Independence (1919-1921) and the subsequent Civil War (1922-23) and violence in NI, Ireland was at outright war for nearly a decade, with a significant part of the period, as part of the UK.

Borrowed these suggestions from another thread.

On 26/05/2022 at 15:25, Mike E said:

The Russian Revolution stuff on Netflix is really good too. The period between the wars is really fascinating because you can see how the Peace was never truly a peace.

On 26/05/2022 at 15:10, ChrisyG said:

If anyone finds World War II interesting I can recommend WWII in colour on Netflix, it's a very good watch. Also, Hitlers Inner Circle - I can't remember which channel I watched that but it was fascinating. What a bunch of evil f*ckers they were.

Rovers website reporting the U21 international call-up of another club's player (van Hecke). I hope that means something beyond the marketing team scraping the barrel. Though, wouldn't be surprised considering the clickbait that's sometimes on the club site.

22 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Yes, he supposedly is the fastest player at the club based on training sprint times, faster than Mbappe's scores at PSG even.

Then I saw him play RB live at Blackpool. He was slower than a turd in treacle. I don't think he is as slow as he was that day, but I suspect he has problems with his mentality.

I'm not sure about his pace. Perhaps, it was the case when he was younger but seeing a little of him, he looks quite bulky and not that quick, at least, over 5-10 yards. Maybe he's quicker over more.

On Stergiakis, it goes down as a failed signing. Moreover, my guess, without any proof, is that the club were avoiding playing him to evade transfer add-ons. I can't see any other reason for playing him every 2 games, and putting him behind academy keepers.

I wanted to raise the question of whether season 20/21 was unusually bad for U23s injuries. I wonder whether it was coincidence or whether other issues were at play. Whitehall, Saadi, Barnes and Gilsenan missed the majority of the season, I believe. Cirino missed something like  half of it. Ash Phillips was regularly out during the campaign. That's five or six starters that missed major chunks, if not most, of the season.

I believe Gilsenan injured an anterior cruciate ligament, causing long-term absence and Cirino was out with a serious hamstring injury. Whitehall will miss, apparently, another five months, with his foot injury - giving him a few months to come back and prove he's worth of a further contract extension, which will be a tall order. The others are back fit, I think.

Billy Barr released by Salford, where he was assistant manager. He did well with the U23 job here, would anyone want him back in some capacity? Presumably, now he's had a taste of a more senior role, albeit League 2, he'll be looking for something comparable. I don't know anything about his time at Salford and how good a coach he is or isn't, so would be interested to know views from those who might do.

A place to talk about history and share recommendations of what you are currently reading, watching, listening or thinking about. Feel free to share on the local to the international - whatever is holding your interest and want to share.

If you share links, please give some written context to help us decide whether we want to find out more.

If you want to debate history, please keep on topic. Some more recent history might be better placed in other threads but I appreciate that it is all connected.

Liverpool's signing of Carvalho from Fulham seems part of a worrying trend of newly promoted sides getting raided before a chance to kick a ball in the new league. We saw it with Norwich selling Buendia, after promotion, to Villa. I think back to when Rovers were promoted in the early 2000s and what the consequences would have been for the team had one of Duff, Dunn or Jansen been sold. Even with effective substitutes, would Europe and the Worthington Cup have followed? It was inconceivable, at the time, though we knew, eventually, they'd move on, if successful. The growing divide is truly killing off the game as it was.

Has the Premier League always finished 2 weeks after the end of the normal football league fixtures? I'm pretty sure not or maybe I've not noticed. It seems wrong that there isn't more coordination, as we have with the start of the season, to maintain some semblance of shared experience and solidarity.

McBride's career has not taken off and he's been a sub for Queen's Park and not scored a goal, as far as I know. However, they have won the play offs and will play in the second tier next year, so, perhaps, they'll try to sign him.

On the face of it, seems nothing to lose to let him go but I do believe that there were some mis-steps in helping his development, after he was nominated for the PL2 player of the year shortlist, after something like 13 goals and 6 assists. Foremost, he needed a loan last summer. Also he was more deserving, at the time, than players like Pike and Annesley who got new deals but are almost certainly going to leave the club next year.

However, he did have a bad season, lost the faith of the management and struggled on loan, so it comes as no surprise he's going. I'd have kept him for another year. He's a different type of forward to Burns and Vale. But we'll have to see where his career goes next.