He’s not going anywhere anytime soon. Has got plenty in the bank with the owners, the players and majority of the fans. 
I can’t see any review of the managers position coming before the end of the season UNLESS something pretty huge happens which forces their hand. (An extended run of losses going into the new year or TM takes it into his own hands)

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

You honestly expect the likes of Dunn or Gallagher, ex players that live locally and work with the club to publicly call for the manager to be sacked?

I’m 100% sure that if Dunny thought the manager needed changing, he would say so. Yes.

23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Maybe this is who the uber fans take their cues from. People like Gally, Garner, Dunny who all back the incumbent because they never know who they might need a favour from at the club.

OR that’s just what they believe is right Stuart. I personally think that TM backed himself into an impossible position by aiming for promotion this season. He’s done a fantastic job overall but the questions and rumblings around the big money signings, finding his best team and shaky defence are amplified by the expectation he has built. 
 

But we have to be careful what we wish for. There is much more chance of us getting another Coyle or Kean after Mowbray than a Pearson etc

Id have been happy with a top 10 finish before we were promised a top 6 push. 

Just now, K-Hod said:

He absolutely has to go.

Sadly, I agree.

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

We have been a ticking time bomb since the summer with Mowbrays reluctance to bring in the type of defenders that we have lacked in his tenure. We were always going to be an injury or two away from becoming a poor team. 

Also I think a lot of the players are simply not able to deliver the quick passing game that Mowbray craves. His excuse this week of having a few different styles of play was frankly nonsense or even if we do we are inept at most of them. It's completely different doing drills on the training pitch to carrying it out in an intense Championship match.

My personal feeling is that Mowbray has over complicated things and expects players to do something that is quite alien to most of them. I sincerely hope I'm wrong but the writing is on the wall and if the warning signs are ignored we could well be relegated.

I agree with your point re the writing on the wall. Though I still think we can rescue this season, even after Preston batter us on Saturday (I’m in no doubts).

But I don’t think we’ll be relegated. I can’t see Mowbray being sacked until the summer.

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What line of work are you in Paul ? I used to work in engineering. Not a massive place, about 100 employees. The Managing Director was a dick but he was there every day and knew everything about everybody in the place. He'd know what you had for your tea last night when you'd forgotten ! 

If he'd have been an absentee owner the place would have kept going no problem but the productivity would have took a hit. By how much would depend on how motivated the foremen were. A good foreman would have a better effect than a bad one. It'd still be a up hill struggle no matter who was supposed to be trying to run the show.The fitters would still be performing but the welders would be taking the piss. The self motivated guys would be doing their best but the skivers would be picking their horses in the toilets for an hour a day. After a while the grafters would say to themselves - " What's the point, when nobody else cares ? ". Then they get brought down to the lazy guys level.

That's what you've got at Rovers, no hands on direction from the top. Managers have come and gone, players have come and gone. The malaise at the club has been there ever since they fired Big Sam, appointed The Snake, and decided to leave things in his hands.

" A fish rots from the head ".

I like the analogy and you can see where that sits right mate. I’m actually in the services industry, though my company deals a lot with engineering companies. 
 

Im not sure it runs so deep at Rovers. From what I understand, there’s a good vibe about the place. I hope Tony and the team pull it round. I just knew he’d placed a target on his head the minute he mentioned promotion. Charges the owners and the fans up when he doesn’t have a top 6 budget. Plus, if he wanted to sneak in there like a Preston etc then it would’ve been better to keep quiet and ‘over achieve’. 
Thanks for the post mate.

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Not sure, but the fact we haven't come from behind to beat an opponent in the Championship since October 2014 is absolutely damning. Similarly I believe we haven't come from behind to win in any league match in something like two years - last time was during the L1 campaign. 

We have a topic on here talking about character because it's so obvious we have none, and I think that's been the case for a lot longer than just Mowbray's tenure. It's been pretty much a staple of the club since Venky's arrived and put Steve Kean in charge. Whatever is broken may not be fixable - it may just be that the owners' apathy and neglect trickles through the entire club and has a knock on effect which can sometimes be stifled but never completely erased. If so then we can swap managers over and over and the result will ultimately be the same. We have to hope that isn't the case though - as Venky's don't appear to be going anywhere - so instead we can only rely on finding a massive overachiever with enough determination and courage to overpower the curse the owners have put on the club. Would be some luck finding that guy though, especially with our so called "board" leading the search, and chances are that person's characteristics would cause another Lambert-like departure when they realised the scale of the mountain they would need to climb to achieve anything worthwhile here.

Really interesting point. Thank you.

Just now, DE. said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but at the same time there are some very concerning stats going back a number of years which suggest something is fundamentally broken at a core level of the club. At the very least we need to fix this, even if it isn't through a total overhaul. 

What is it that you think is fundamentally broken? 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We dont want consistency with the current set up, its grown stagnant, we need a new way of thinking.

I cant agree with the sentence "The first XI is good enough to challenge for the top 6 imo" something I disagreed with to @JoeH albeit I think he said top 10. Its a myth that our team is as good as people say, albeit that is very much down to the managers recruitment.

Looking at it, Walton is to be quite generous, a bottom 6 quality goalkeeper. I can see why he didnt even maintain his number 1 shirt for the full season at Wigan last year. Defensively, at centre backs we are no better, the 2 that played yesterday are certainly not top half quality, and Lenihan isnt much better plus is constantly injured. A repeated area of neglect at the club. Cunningham I think you could argue is top 6 quality but is unfortunately a write off with injury, leaving Bell and Bennett at full back who I would argue in their respective positions are bottom 3 quality, really poor. Nyambe is a little better but I suspect will be dropped shortly for Bell.

In midfield, I think people at times slightly overstate Travis' ability. A very good prospect and a key player but hes not a patch on genuine top 6 central midfielders of his ilk, Kalvin Phillips, Ben Pearson etc. Maybe in time he will get there and stamp his authority more on games. Johnson has been a huge disappointment, seemingly has fallen well away from  his Norwich days. Downing for all of his technical ability I don't think stamps his authority on games enough or has enough tangible impact. Holtby could potentially be of that quality, but obviously we have only seen him have one start for us, but he needs to return as soon as possible. Rothwell is an enigma in terms of the usage of him, has to be playing games but not sure we have seen enough to be sure he is top 6 quality, but that may be more down to the manager.

Up top, Dack as a 10 is certainly top 6 level, you look at his numbers. With Graham seemingly written off, Gallagher, Brereton and Samuel would probably not get in any other team in the division, and Armstrong flatters to deceive 9 times out of 10.

I understand some of your points but it’s very much written in the moment. I’ll bet you didn’t harbour half of those opinions just before kick off against Luton as we set out to achieve a third straight Clean sheet and victory with a host of seemingly winnable fixtures in front of us.

At that point, many were lauding the keeper and defence whilst eulogising over the signing of Holtby. Confident in the knowledge that we were making fine progress. 
 

The key here is not to knee jerk imo. I feared for the manager as soon as he said that we were hoping for a top 6 finish. I don’t know how many managers come up from league 1, finish mid table and then go up the season after. He needed a big injection of cash in the summer rather than a couple of million net spend. Now he’ll end up throwing himself on his sword. I would give Johnson a chance.

3 hours ago, DE. said:

Do you mean afford in the monetary sense or in terms of the impact it would have on the club in general?

Both tbh. Massive overhauls are rarely a good idea. They cost a fortune and very rarely bare fruit. In any case I don’t think we need one. Improve the defence, get the strikers firing and settle on formula that works.

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Why is it unnecessary? 

I don’t think we need, or can afford wholesale changes. The first XI is good enough to challenge for the top 6 imo. The problem lies in the managers seeming inability to find the formula and his best team. The failure to adequately improve the defence is also coming back to bite him as are the impotent performances of Gally and Brereton. 
 

Either way, if this or the next manager can re-invigor the team, improve the defence and get the best out of Gally and Brereton then we won’t be far off.

If the manager was to leave, the sensible option is to bring Johnson in. Keep a little bit of consistency. Otherwise, you’re changing everything which is unnecessary and expensive.

On 14/09/2019 at 10:56, 47er said:

The triumph of hope over experience---again!. We've wasted £7 million quid---face it!  

On 14/09/2019 at 11:31, darrenrover said:

Agreed, He's a £7 million Miles Anderson for me: never a footballer.

Ben Brereton is 20yrs Old (2-0) and has represented England at U19 and U20 level. He has also played in 79 Championship games. You’re writing him off. Let that sink in.

Give your heads a wobble lads.

2 hours ago, LDRover said:

7 million on Brereton is 'common sense'? Blimey.

Read the post mate. Really read it please.

15 minutes ago, 47er said:

is it? This  discussion started with me pointing out Norwich got one for nothing. Charlton got one better than any of our's, again for nothing.

Sorry, its not common sense, its bullshit. Clubs have been recently promoted with out spending £12M on the entire team.

Preston finished above us (again) last year and never spent anything like that, nor did they pay high wages. Burnley were the 5th highest profit-earners in the Premier League last season, they were promoted on a shoe-string.

Sorry, but our's is a scatter-gun approach, I don't believe there is the level of planning and competence needed for promotion and I don't expect it.

I think you’re misunderstanding the size of the wages paid at many of the clubs you have mentioned there. In any case, you just reeled off every pin up “we did it on the cheap” club. In reality they didn’t. 

Relax. The money spent is about par (fees and wages) with most clubs looking to get in the top six. There’s nothing scatter gun about that approach. It’s playing the % game. 

As far as your expectation of ‘a level of planning and competence “needed” for promotion’. I am genuinely interested to know what your experience of planning for such an event is and your take on what is “needed”. Don’t you also think it would be better if you actually knew what the plans were prior to judging. Apologies in advance if you do know.

Just now, JacknOry said:

Hi,

He has been saying promotion quite a lot already actually. Which is why it is odd that he has now lessened his pre-stated targets.

Tbf I think the “Top ten” rhetoric is more of a nod to Venkys as he wants more money in January if we are in the top 10. Target is defo top 6 and promotion

44 minutes ago, 47er said:

Is it? Really?

 When will top quality upfront be introduced then?

We couldn’t even dream of affording top quality forwards. Even the loans want 40-70k a week in salaries. Hence why we have spent our money on the former category I outlined. Gally, Armstrong and BB are young and fit within our wage structure. The mandate therefore is to develop them and find a diamond. 

Again, just common sense really.

7 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

For this season it’s addressed. Loans can be frowned upon but surely only someone desperate to point out fault would argue Walton isn’t (initially) an upgrade on David.

Perhaps after a good season we might have more choice about who our next permanent number one?

Exactly right. Ultimately there are short and long term goals. The long term goals are achieved through funding the academy and creating a pipeline into the first team as well as buying hungry, talented players like Dack, Rothwell, Arma, Gally, BB etc with a view to developing them and in order to win you promotions and / or create revenue in the future.

The short term plan is to go up THIS season and that involves the introduction of top quality. We couldn’t afford to buy a Tosin or Walton plus wages and could get nowhere near a Johnson or Downing in their prime so what we do is loan them or pick them up later in their career to provide that injection of necessary quality over the short term.

Its straightforward enough really.

Lenihan and Travis are better than most of the managers signings. Buckley, JRC and Butterworth are expected (by the current management) to play in 10-15 first team games this season. 

Magloire, Grayson and the striker (can’t recall his name) expected to integrate as above next season. 

Very strong pipeline into the first team created and instigated by the manager. Jonty is the conduit and has also brought in the technical analysis booths as well as bespoke individual programmes with the focus on development. 

The increasing expectation of the club and obvious quality additions in the summer means that the young players need to continue raising their standard to break through but there are a lot of last years team (Bell, Evans, Smallwood, Graham and even Benno) who know that the writing is on the wall. The likes of Johnson and Downing may not have another season in them either so the opportunity is there IF they’re good enough.

I think we will play one of either Travis or Johnson with a ball player like Holtby or Downing in the middle this weekend. There’s no need to have two holding / combative midfielders at home. 

Walton

Bennett Lenihan Williams Cunningham 

Travis Holtby

Armstrong Dack Downing

Gally

OR

Walton

Tosin Lenihan Williams

Benno Travis Holtby Downing

Armstrong Dack

Gally

Just now, Stuart said:

Après toi. Mange tout, mange tout.

Haha which of my common themes would you prefer I climb down on? The transfer thread where I fought the daily barrage with a message of “let’s wait and see until the end of the window?” OR The ‘Mowbray out’ thread where I tried desperately to add some context into the incessant pleas to sack a manager who’s done a great job for us?

Where did you sit in those discussions Stu? Have your views changed since?

10 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't understand what you are saying about Mahoney. He got the majority of his first team opportunities with us from Tony Mowbray but refused to renew his contract and then moved to a Premier League club where he never played - but presumably was better paid.

100% - And since then he has been passed from pillar to post around lower championship clubs and currently plays for Millwall! ??

Just now, Stuart said:

Flakey.

 

The ability of those who were emotional and situationally irrational to change their opinion isn’t flaky Stu. It says more about them as people...it’s cool to admit you were wrong mate. Try it.

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Of course, but don’t take the moral high ground with others if they haven’t as yet changed theirs too.

Touché...I’m just glad I didn’t join in with the ‘Mowbray out’ furore tbh. It was pretty difficult to resist at times, such was the levels of vitriol and allegations levelled against him.

I think it’s refreshing when people realise that their emotive rants were unnecessary and feel able to change their opinion.