48 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes, we have too many that can play different positions without actually specialising....our full backs that has been playing are a good example,  benno and downing are not defenders

Agreed but as I have pointed out it seems pretty likely that the manager - whether it be Tony Mowbray or anyone else - is operating according to a club transfer policy that does not permit him to spend any significant sums on defenders; hence players in other positions are converted.

3 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Pretty confident you don't get to Sam's age at a PL club if you don't even understand the basics of playing centre forward.

I imagine the problem is taking daily centre forward lessons off a centre half.

Alright buying these players to develop but who is doing the developing ?

According to the club's website Damian Johnson is First Team Technical Coach and Head of Player Development. Many on here want him as manager.

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Morning.

You're up early to stalk me today.

Since Venky's rocked up, not many. Kean's one game against Liverpool, a brief period under Bowyer maybe.

Imo the stuff served up by Mowbray's sides is down there with Lambert's as amongst the worst if not the worst though.

Mate, if you think you are being stalked you should see what I get on here. I was up early to put the bins out - back to bed very shortly.

Only a few games that have been enjoyable in the last 9 years by the sound of things; you can get less than that for murder these days.

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Wouldn't have said the price per se was an issue under normal circumstances.

Trouble is the football served up by Mowbray's teams isn't worth £8 let alone £28.

Which manager do you think has served up football worth £28 ?

32 minutes ago, JPTSwindon said:

It is a shame we missed out on Danny Cowley, he has turned Huddersfield around.

Didn't they lose to Stoke at home 5-2 last time ?

Just now, Husky said:

I must say I'm in favour of changing the OT law.

Something just doesn't sit right with one offense winning the game with a TD without letting the other have a right of reply.

Yes, I agree

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The day you let idiots like the Chicken Chokers decide who to sign is the day you clear your desk and say your goodbyes. Some good advice I was given as a young man - " Never, ever accept a situation where you have responsibility without power ".

The managers like Paul Lambert who can expect to get another decent job will do as you suggest - the problem is that we are left not being able to get anyone who is not so well enough regarded in the game.

1 minute ago, Silas said:

That's the second time in 24hrs you have associated a man crying with both mental health and suicide. 

You appear to believe your views are progressive and modern, but I would suggest they are archaic and dated.

If a man cries, it shouldn't mean there's something "wrong" with him. If a woman cries does that mean there's something wrong with her? Are we still living in the 1950's?

Whilst you're lecturing everyone else on what's appropriate or not, might I suggest you maybe examine your own viewpoints when measured up against modern standards.

In fact, mental health charity Mind did a whole campaign on this back in 2015:

https://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaigns/news/mind-says-it-s-ok-to-cry/

Trying to eradicate the stigma of adults crying, as it is seen as a good release for anxiety issues.

Someone like yourself jumping from tears to suicide in a heartbeat is probably the exact issue they were trying to overcome. Particularly among the Male population.

So to Big Ben I say -  let the tears flow bro, dust off, pick yourself up, and come back fighting harder than ever. That's all any of us can do. 

I think you have misread what I said. I have not for one second suggested that there is something wrong with a man crying. What I would say is that we sympathise - whilst not all men who cry will commit suicide but I would surmise that most men who commit suicide will have been crying.

I don't want to take this on any further because myself and the poster with whom I initially disagreed have agreed that this is now closed.

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

My bet is he took a punt based on pretty as much as we could find out online in about 2 hours after hearing about Brereton for the 1st time. Along with making a few calls to ex managers to find out if he's a good lad. 

Look,clubs take punts sometimes and they dont't work out. It's just a pity it happened us when we don't have much cash. 

I don't think fans should boo him anyway. I really hope he proves a lot of us wrong form here. 

I think Brereton's name will have been put to him after the owners and their representatives came up with the idea and asked him for his opinion. I agree he probably then did something along the lines of what you say and ok'd it having been told there was no alternative signing lined up.

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If you disagree, you must therefore agree that Mowbray is a massive liar? The quotes @DE.shared are pretty unequivocal. 

I don't believe he is a liar to be honest. 

Not a massive liar , no. But I think anyone working here as a manager for long will find themselves in the position of having to say things they don't believe. The one exception was Lambert who walked.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Case closed, your honour. 

I disagree. If he had little input in to a signing made by the owners on the advice of their representatives he was never going to come out and be anything other than positive if he wanted to keep his job. Instead what he did was never to pick him for the team.

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sorry, not having that. If a manager really doesn't want a player then he has to put his foot down or evaluate his position if a player really is foisted on him against his wishes at the expense of someone else.

Plus whilst I am merely surmising, I wouldn't be surprised if Mowbray has a lot more autonomy than at most other Clubs. Up until this summer at least he seems to have had the complete faith of the owners whereas at many bigger Clubs transfer business is carried out by Committee consisting of the Director of Football, Chief Executive, Manager, Chief Scout, etc and the manager has his say and input but not necessarily the final decision.

Steve Kean didn't have much going for him but I suspect he had little input regarding transfers. Wasn't Jordan Rhodes bought by football expert Shebby Singh ? Also there is a story that when Jordan Slew turned up for his first day at training Kean greeted him with the words "Well, who are you then ?"

I agree with you that strong managers can stand up to owners trying to foist players on to them which I'm afraid is why our owners do not and probably will not employ any of them. You have posted optimistically about the likes of Hughton, Hughes and Pulis replacing Mowbray; in my opinion men like that will stand up to the owners and get a P45 for their troubles just like all the other employees who tried to do the right thing for the club.

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,its really bad on Twitter today. For the record I don't our fans should boo Brereton,or any of our own players for that matter. 

I agree with you so let's consider this closed.

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dont twist what I said. Plus dont bring suicide into it to try and over state a millionaire footballer crying because he got booed ,like every player does. Of course it's ok for men to cry. There are of course times when men probably should cry rather than bottle things up. If you cry cos you get booed as a footballer, you need time off to get your head straight and possibly re evaluate your career. Harsh maybe, but the truth. 

Look at James McLean. The absolute savage sectarian abuse that man gets week in week out. I remember a thread on here before where some said he deserves it for not wearing a poppy. 

Should booing opposition players be banned? What about if they are taking a penalty. Should they not be booed in case it impacts their mental health? 

 

Everyone here can look at your original post to see if your words were twisted. I'm pleased to see that you have expressed the views you have in your first paragraph. The exception is your reference to Brereton being a "millionaire" which follows on from a previous reference  you have made to him having an attractive partner. I just don't see the relevance of these statements. Either we care about our fellow human beings or we don't; there is not a lower threshold of care for those with money and a beautiful girlfriend.

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As regards point 3, you might think that would be the case, but in response to that particular suggestion Mowbray has claimed ownership of the Brereton signing on umpteen occasions. Unless you're going to accuse him of lying I think you have to take that at face value in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary.

It just seems to me that for the section of the fanbase for whom Tony can do no wrong, when we make a signing that comes off, it's a masterstroke by Tony, if we make a signing that's a disaster the owners must have got involved and it's nothing to do with Tony.

Whereas there's no actual evidence whatsoever that TM isn't in full control of transfer dealings and wouldn't have signed them all, good or bad.

I think he's taking one for the team by saying he made the signing. He can hardly come out in public and say that it wasn't down to him and the player was effectively foisted on him.

Generally I'm afraid that over the last 9 years the nature of the club's transfer dealings have pointed strongly to the conclusion that the manager whoever it is has to accept a significant degree of interference from external sources.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Spot on. For me Mowbray's handling of him has been an absolute disgrace. 

OK maybe we overpaid for him and maybe he isn't the next Alan Shearer, but when Mowbray indulged in another arse covering exercise in that article in the LT the other day putting Brereton's lack of impact down to lack of desire on the player's part, I think it was mentioned he'd only had 8 starts during his time  (sixteen months) here. Of those 8 starts I'd be surprised if more than 2 or 3 of them were from his natural position up front.

How is anyone meant to thrive in those circumstances.? I was quite heartened to read that Mowbray mentioned In the article that BB had been in his office complaining about lack of game time as it shows he's not just happy to sit there and collect his wage.

When the uncorroborated rumour about him crying emerged on Twitter yesterday, my first thought was that I would need a bit more proof than that before I believed it but even if it did happen it wasn't necessarily a bad thing that he was upset things weren't working out for him, particularly after (rightly or wrongly) being dug out in the Press by his manager for lack of hunger. 

 in many ways I'd be a lot more worried if BB seemed completely unconcerned by his plight and how things have gone. No harm in him being devastated by how he's been treated this far but although another manager might put an arm round his shoulder, attempt to build his confidence up and  actually give him a proper chance instead of just telling him he needs to bulk up and/or await his chance and/or show more hunger, at the end of the day he'll have to bounce back and produce himself.

1. I agree with you that it is a good thing that the player cares about how things are going. I think that the overwhelming percentage of professional footballers do care and that the non trying accusations that are levelled against some of them are unjustified.

2. The discussion about crying which developed on this thread came after one poster made a statement that he thought it was pathetic for an adult man to cry. On a day when football was trying to highlight mental health issues and a few days after 39 year old  Chris Barker committed suicide some of us thought that was inappropriate.

3 Doesn't Mowbray's handling of the player point to the signing being a decision made by someone else ? If he hasn't rated him how can he play him ?

20 minutes ago, tomphil said:

You were alluding to there being a policy of not investing in defenders under Venkys. I've given you 'specifics' showing otherwise and stating you don't have to spend millions.

Are you in a position to know otherwise ?   It was the fee banded about.

Now enough with your part of the Mowbray PR double act machine with Biz. TM's defensive approach to recruitment has been lax since he's been here. until his last min panics this summer. Thank god he had a young keeper on the books who despite his rawness was as good as if not better than the other guy. Otherwise iv'e no doubt he'd have flung a fresh contract at Steele and we'd still be lumbered with him now, then again look where we ended up with that anyway !

My point was that the ratio of spending transfer fees is overwhelmingly skewered towards attackers rather than defenders which points to a deliberate policy laid down to all our managers by the owners. Nothing to do with a PR act for anyone but an indicator that managing this club is just that bit harder than some people imagine.

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Someone suggested Mowbray was being told to play him such is the incredulity that he's getting in the first team squad.  He's nowhere near the standard required. 

Thanks. Sad to say that one can't rule such a theory out of hand. If true,this sort of thing does of course point to how difficult it would be to recruit a manager with a high standing in the game - the likes of Hughton and Warnock would simply refuse to go along with something like this.

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

That does lend weight to the conspiracy theory put out on here earlier in the week.  Buckley in my opinion is no better than a couple of lads I know at PNE, and they are 16/17

I must have missed it. What was the conspiracy theory ?

1 hour ago, Fraserkirky said:

For me when need a solid experienced keeper, Joe Hart would be ideal, Adam Bogdan is on a free also.

We need to clone Gael Givet, tough Centre half who doesn’t look like a total plonker at left back.

A goalscorer, Hogan would be decent, is Jack Marriott getting a game at Derby?

I saw Marriott play on Friday night where he scored his first goal in 18 games with what looked like a mishit. The half time interval was spent with the TV showing the extraordinary number of good chances that he had missed prior to that.

37 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Nope I blame the manager otherwise you are entering the realm of him not making the signings or following someone else's orders.

Something that whenever I allude to I get 'conspiracy" thrown my way by a select little group. One of whom adds his own weight to it on twitter yet plays whiter than white on here.

Just consider for a min that you don't have to actually spend a lot you just have to know what you are doing.

Dann, Duffy and a million pound loan fee for Tosin for starters. He's been found wanting in terms of defense and keeper recruitment before you start on anything else.

Scott Dann arrived before we were relegated whereas I specifically referred to what has happened since then. How are you in a position to know what the loan fee is for Tosin ?

Duffy is the most expensive defender at approx £450k since we were relegated. We did of course make a substantial profit on his sale.

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

They are Brummies, aren't they?

Corrected it for you. It's all about standards.

I was giving it the local flavour.

Just now, Cherry Blue said:

Hope there's no spelling mistakes or poor grammar ?

They are Brummies aren't they ?

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

? no chaddy/harry/mashy comments on there?

Too down market a rag for us, mate.

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Build a team from the back clearly isn't this managers philosophy and that's probably been his undoing through his management career. 

 Stack the front. pack the middle in the squad then penny pinch make do and mend converting at the back.

That has been the philosophy ever since we were relegated from the Premier League. The imbalance between transfer fees paid for forwards and midfielders on one hand and goalkeepers and defenders on the other is extraordinary. Given that it has been going on for so long under so many managers points to there being outside interference presumably from the owners; I don't think you can blame Tony Mowbray for that.