13 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Manioo because he plays for, err, Man U… that’s as far as an England manager analysis would go.

Well, he is also significantly more experience at a higher level when it comes to selecting a young player for a major tournament. He's got more Premier League experience and a couple of England caps already.

1 hour ago, Inferi said:

Somehow he seems to be pleased with what he has accomplished when in reality he should be ashamed and scared of losing his job. 

I think this is the toughest pill to swallow.

The 'no excuse' culture has been filled with excuses and, what's worse, the lowering of expectations to a point where an excuse is perceived to not be needed.

2 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Sorry jdt had run his race, he was done weeks before he finally went. I can’t forgive putting pears in when we had a fit kaminski, think a few are rewriting history with how tactically astute jdt was

That's probably true and things were very bad at the time that he left, but I can't imagine they would have been any worse than they've been under Eustace.

We've won 3 league matches since JDT left. Would we have beaten Leeds? Probably not, but we would have picked up a win or two against the likes of Sheffield Wednesday, Plymouth, Birmingham, or any of the host of other bad to mediocre sides we played.

Would our goal difference be worse now? Probably, but we've also lost by 5 to Bristol City, by 2 to Sheffield Wednesday, and drawn against a weakened Coventry side that played a third of the match with 10 men.

So, are some rewriting history as to how bad or good JDT was? Probably. But the sad reality is that things couldn't have gone much worse since February.

He had to go, but let's not pretend that if we stay up it is because of some Eustace turnaround. I think JDT would have picked up a similar number of points. Fewer draws, more big defeats, but a couple of those draws would have turned into wins.

Also, I suppose it 'benefitted' us, but what's the point in sending a manager off if he's just going to sit in the stands and get on his phone?

Surely he should be barred from interacting with the touchline. 

7 hours ago, tomphil said:

More than likely he was just trying to spark a reaction from the crowd and maybe his team.

Age old trick.

Is it? I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a similar incident over the past 2/3 years. You don't see many managers actively try to get the ball off of an opposition player.

You'll see plenty control it themselves or rush to get a ball if it is near them, but the multiball system has kind of done away with any need for a manager to be actively fighting for a ball. 

21 hours ago, RV Blue said:

Barely seen it mentioned but the fact that he got sent off for fighting a player for the ball in a league that operates a multi ball system about sums him up, thick as mince. 

He strikes me as the type of manager who would have seen that as an opportunity to 'set an example' - even though his overall approach to matches is defensive and lethargic.

It's straight out of the David Brent book of management. I'm sure he'll have shown it a few times to the players as an example of he intensity they need to bring to the match on Saturday.

4 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto Mk2 said:

To my mind, Adam Wharton is blossoming because, for the first time in his life, he’s playing with lads who are as good in their positions as he is in his.

I’m not convinced he would have developed any further at all had he stayed with us, especially after JDT left. No matter how many sublime passes you play to Gallagher, he isn’t going to control any of them, and Eustace binning passing out from the back would have greatly reduced the number of touches he got in a game. If there was going to be an auction for him, I can’t see why it didn’t happen in January. 

He isn’t typical of the kind of player our academy produces, nor should he be as players of his ilk will never stay long enough in the first team to make any meaningful difference. I’m wondering how good Harry Leonard is given he’ll be playing without Adam’s passes for the first time in his life.

 

I agree. It's a great move for his personal development. In terms of a 'stepping stone' move (not to be dismissive of Palace) he's also landed on a team with the pace, athleticism, and movement around him to make the most of that vision and passing.

3 hours ago, DE. said:

We've had two coaches now who seem extremely reluctant to put Telalovic on the pitch, which probably says something. Does make you wonder what the recruitment team were thinking spending any of our limited money on him though. Might as well have kept Vale around - from memory he didn't go out on loan until 01/09, so we could have just decided to hold onto him if Telalovic was our only other achievable target.

But JDT at least put Telalovic on the pitch. I think Eustace just doesn't like making attacking changes. We've been in situations where we've been down by more than a goal and he still won't make a forward-thinking change. 

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He has been absolutely awful in games too. As youd expect from a player signed from the German 4th division.

There was no reason to not bring other attacking players on and sacrifice a centre back though, it is just Eustace for you.

I don't think he's been awful. He's not been good, but not terrible. To be perfectly honest, I don't notice a huge difference between him and Gallagher. 

Even if he is absolutely awful in training, there's no reason to not be throwing on attacking players in the situation that we were in on Saturday.

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

A pound shop Tony Pulis

2 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

eustace the type of manager if you gave him 50 million quid to spend,he`d still play the same way,like a lower league david moyes,boring tactics thus boring football

He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as either of those two managers. We can only dream of having someone like Moyes and, as for Pulis, even with all of the awful football he at least had a clear system and plan and an idea of how he could exploit weaknesses in the opposition.

Eustace is just shoving men behind the ball, not pushing forward, and hoping for a 0-0. 

Anyone defending his red card is clutching at straws.

It isn't the manager's job to get the ball back. He shouldn't be interacting with opposition players and certainly shouldn't be putting his hands on anyone.

He sets the tone for the team and that is an awful example to be getting from your leader.

He's a moron who's had a bit too much PR training and is using his few remaining brain cells to smile whenever a question is asked.

I just wish he had been permanently sent off. I'd genuinely rather have any of our other managers during the Venky's era over him. I mean that.  

Just now, jim mk2 said:

What took you so long? 

Oh, I've been there for a while.

I don't even think he's as athletically gifted as most people on here make out.

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Duff, Jones, Santa Cruz and Bentley raised nearly £70m (a long time ago) from a cost of probably £4-5m. With these players especially Bellamy, it was likely the only way they would sign up. If Venkys were regularly bringing in massive fees and continuing to sign top players as we continue to punch above our weight, I doubt there would be much uproar. 

Hold on.

No.

Because, actually, we are sort of doing that and that is still a big issue. In part because we aren't spending it - although we never spent it all under the Walker Trust either - but mostly because supporters, rightfully, want us to hold onto good players in order to put together a competitive squad.

I'm not trying to compliment our current owners, but those saying that they turned us into a selling club are absolutely wrong. 

6 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Duff had a release clause, Bellamy had a release clause, Jones had a release clause. Santa Cruz was a terrific deal for us, it was fairly clear at the time he had gone back off the boil and was a crock. Bentley dragged on for most of the summer, culminating in the player drunkenly interviewing with Sky Sports on holiday to say he wanted out. Don't think there was much chance of keeping him without him becoming hugely disruptive.

I'm not a fan of putting in release clauses, kinda think they should be banned, but Bellamy wasn't signing in the first place without it. Possible the other players weren't signing their contract extensions without them either.

Right, so think about it. How hard were we fighting to keep players when we'd made it a standard policy to put release clauses into contracts?

Under the Walker Trust and John Williams we had accepted the idea that we had to be a selling club and turn a profit on players when possible. In some instances, this probably helped us to sign certain players (Bellamy), but we also created a culture that made that the standard approach for contracts.

I'm not defending Venkys, but they would be crucified if they were putting in release clauses at the rate that we were in the 2000s. You'd struggle to find another club that not only put release clauses in for virtually all of their key first team players, but also set them at a relatively low number. 

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

In fairness, if we had been in the second tier at the time, and that was the only opposition Duff had gotten to show his class against, that's probably about as good as we could have expected back then. I'd say it's more like selling Duff for £4-5 million from the second tier.

It's as if we would have sold Duff the season before we were promoted - although even then he was more proven than Wharton is now. Duff had made more Premier League appearances before we were relegated than Wharton made appearances for our first team before he was sold.

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think the difference is, to a greater or lesser extent, they all wanted to leave. I don’t think Wharton did.

I just don't believe that for a second.

His agent was far more active in the months leading up to the window and a lot of effort has been put in to build his profile in the time leading up to the move and immediately following it.

I'm sure he enjoyed his time here. I'm sure he loved playing with his brother. But this was a big move to the Premier League, more money, and a bigger stepping stone.

Many believe that he wanted to stay, but it likely isn't the case. After all, if he had really wanted to stay he would have turned the move down. Oh wait, I forgot that he supposedly took the move because the club told him how desperate they were for money...

47 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

You mean the way we used to do?

Did we ever really do that?

I can't remember any point where we've really put up a great fight to keep players. Duff went fairly easily. Bellamy, Santa Cruz, Bentley, Jones...

It's not really anything new. 

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How many are just 20 years old ?

Mainoo, Elliott, Chukwuekema, and Buonanotte have all definitely impressed this season. Then you have some highly touted prospects like Rico Lewis who is playing as a right-back but could definitely have his future in midfield and players like Lavia who haven't really played this season.

It's not a knock on Wharton. He's very talented and he could go onto big things, but as he was our player there is a tendency to look at his talent as being more unique than it probably is. Still a long way to go before he even starts putting himself in England contention.

*I'll also add that I'm almost certainly forgetting or overlooking certain players as I don't watch as many matches from some clubs. Again, we benefit from paying attention to Wharton in a way that we wouldn't have had he just signed for Palace from Leicester.

5 hours ago, den said:

I seem to remember you didn’t rate him when he came into Rovers side in the Championship. Well, here he is playing every game for Palace  and impressing almost everyone, central midfield, in the PL, at the age of 20.  Not many do that Eddie.

I think you'll struggle to find something saying that I didn't rate him. I think he's very talented, but I've always said that there are players of equal talent dotted around clubs in England. 

As for not many? It's a relatively short list, but there would definitely be 5-10 on it virtually every season (including this one).

Wharton definitely looks very comfortable at that level, but he is something of the flavour of the month and a lot of the praise is a bit overboard. Even yesterday, he played well, but he wasn't that involved and really should have been part of a Palace side that lost by 5.

I wish we had kept him for a bit longer - although I think Wharton and his agent had more to do with that move than they are given credit for - but he still has a long way to go in his development until he is the player this thread would make him seem like.

Let's also not forget, much like the Duff kissing the Chelsea badge, Wharton has become incredibly active on social media with a lot of 'up the Palace' stuff.

But, he didn't want to leave, right?

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Who are the top players ? The best one just left the building recently. How many have we got ? I’d class top players as ones capable of getting us out of this league.  I don’t see many of them, unless you count getting out through the back door.

We can be hard on our squad, but we've got more quality than they are currently showing. Over 50% of our starting 11 would be in the running to start for most sides and a couple would be definite starters for virtually every side in the league.

What more do you need in order to be competitive?

With 1 win in 13 you'd think that he was managing a newly promoted side. And not a side promoted from League 1, but a side promoted straight from League 2 or below.

That type of form is unacceptable for ANY SIDE in this league. We can't drop our standards this low.

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

You seem to struggle with nuance. I never said anything about a policy, nor have I implied it. I simply believe that in this current situation, we should attempt to renew the players with expiring contracts, at the right terms. I never mentioned their ages, that was all you - in fact Gally is older than the age range you said. Nor did I say it should have been a full-on policy 3/4 years ago, I was talking about a single player. It's all situational, not policy, and that's why you're putting words in my mouth by saying what you said. But what we did 3/4 years ago, not renewing the contracts of BBD, Lenihan, Rothwell, cost us an absolute fuckton in lost revenue, so even if it had been a general policy I espoused, which it wasn't and isn't, we'd still have made a lot more money on it than we'd have lost in extra contracts..

🙄

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I thought it was pretty obvious, but: "You're basically advocating that every player under 26/27 should be offered a new deal to protect our investment. That will work out some of the time, but it will lead to some awful contracts."

I never said this. Nor do I believe in that as an absolute policy.

But, you just happen to believe it to be sound policy at the moment and have indicated that you would have also seen it as sound policy 3/4 years ago.

It ultimately proved to be a pretty correct assumption.