12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

This repetitive "wait to judge" rhetoric seems unncessary to me, it only goes one way. No one says that we shouldnt judge Sigurdsson despite some really promising signs in his first 4 games because its early days. Its an internet messageboard, why cant we just have constructive debate as we go, especially when this rubbish is said when a player struggles early doors?

Actually, you're sort of wrong.

There are plenty who continue to doubt high-performing players and expect a drop-off. Examples can be seen in those who don't think Wharton is the second-coming, or the supporters who thought that BBD's goalscoring was a purple patch rather than a sign of development.

24 minutes ago, Displaced Rover said:

...with a massively increased net worth

Short-term yes, but possibly will hurt it in the long-term. 

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He would have likely put a few of the chances away that we have created.

Edit: assumed you meant Brereton based on previous conversation, if Buckley as per the thread then I take it back.

Yes, I mean Buckley.

As for BBD, of course he'd be a useful addition, although I do believe that Sigurdsson is an upgrade.

I don't think we're exactly missing him. His best asset at the moment is being a warm body.

3 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

What's mind boggling is the total refusal of some folk to question the club in any way.

I question many aspects of the club, but not all aspects.

22 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The head coach did question the state of him on arrival i'm not sure what is mind boggling about that.

It's very clear that our fitness standards are pretty high. Our style of play requires a high level of fitness and we've signed a number of players who have been deemed to not meet that requirement in their first few weeks.

There's a difference between his match fitness and his fitness for a medical. JDT has not implied that he was unfit to sign.

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Tomasson himself questioned the state of Ennis' fitness on arrival.

A simple V02 type test would have show this up, if indeed they bothered to do one.

So you think the medical team is now cutting corners?

Do you think the owners are instructing them to do so?

The reaction to some things on here is often mind-boggling.

6 hours ago, davulsukur said:

The Daily record had him at 28/1 for the next Rangers manager. Behind names like Bielsa, potter, Hasenhuttl, march, Muscat.

Not sure if they'll go for JDT but you never know. 

No way in hell he'd turn them down if approached.

Few things are more pointless than next manager betting markets. There's so little liquidity in them and such close monitoring from bookmakers that any small bets shift the market considerably.

I'm not actually sure that was quite as bad as it first looked. Don't think he really could have got there, but the half-move made it look worse. 

Never want to see a player suffer an injury, but this Pears knock could be just what we need to resolve the keeping debate.

I think we've got two players of real class in Moran and Sigurdsson.

I really look forward to watching them as they grow into the team (and fitness improves).

We turn down far too many opportunities to shoot.

9 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Absolutely no one has expected that here. You are talking complete bollocks. 

We demand just basic levels of competence. 

Venkys have yet to ever deliver that, our plight is entirely down to them. 

If they had anything about them they would sell up and fuck off. Until that day comes nothing will change.

They pay the bills. Isn't that the basic level of competence?

I'm not defending them, they've made a huge mess of owning us and continue to make the simple things hard, but they also haven't been quite as disastrous as some would like to make out.

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It makes sense that your argument is based on the myth that our fanbase demands that the owners "write blank cheques."

Thats not the issue. We would have money to re circulate if they run the club properly. Dont stubbornly refuse to sell players running down their deals which could allow both relatively speaking considerable sums to both reinvest and slightly stem losses. Dont slash budgets randomly mid summer affecting plans. Dont continue to employ an incompetent CEO who affects revenue streams.

We've never had money to recirculate. On what planet do you live? Even in the Walker Trust era when we managed to sell players for high fees we were still operating at a loss.

Think about how much money we are losing enough and then try to put together a slate of transactions that balances the books.

7 hours ago, 47er said:

There's another kind of entitlement where  owners of a football club, thousands of miles away and apparently disinterested,  feel entitled to do whatever they like, without any sense of responsibility to the generations who have loved the club for nearly 2 centuries.

Then there's the fans who think that's alright. Strange.

Yet they are paying some pretty big bills. How entitled is that?

1 hour ago, SBlue said:

The "It's their money they can do what they want" attitude doesn't sit well with me.

I think if you asked many Wednesday fans, they'd take admin/Lg2/whatever to get rid of the narcissistic embarrassment of an owner. There is huge potential there with that fanbase to aim towards some kind of relative sustainability.

How is that entitled?

If you don't want to have to cover some losses, don't buy (or create in our case) a Championship football club. Sort out the business model, respect the supporters, or hand the keys over to someone that will. At the very least expect some criticism when you fuck it up.

 

I'll take your points one at a time.

1 - Ultimately, if they're paying the bills, then I think it's hard to say that they owe more than that.

2 - I think a lot of fans say this, but when the reality of administration or multiple relegations hit they would change their tune. Yes, some will point to clubs that have managed to handle the situation relatively well (Bolton), but they are the exception.

3 - It is entitled because it assumes that every owner not only has to run a sensible business, but also operate at a huge personal loss. 

4 - That is an issue that can't really be dressed at the individual club level. The business model for football is broken. Instead of supporters protesting that, we pick on individual owners who decide that they don't want to lose tens of millions (or more) owning a club.

Every supporter on here is calling for more summer signings and asking why we aren't spending more money. We also operate at a huge loss in a way that virtually no other business would. It seems odd to me that supporters would be 'so happy' to go through the relegation route through some sort of nuclear implosion, yet are incredibly upset when the same results occur as a result of financial limitations when it comes to signings and wages.

There's a degree of inconsistency and hypocrisy there. 

I don't really want to get into a debate where we single out individual clubs or examples, because there will always be bad owners. But many clubs complain about owners who do nothing worse than keep a business running.

1 hour ago, SBlue said:

I personally think it's a disgrace. 

"Protest and I'll let your club die" is the threat.

Appalling.

Disagree. 

There's an entitled mentality creeping (or even sprinting) into football fan mentality when it comes to what they can demand from owners.

At the absolute worst end of the scale you see things like Ajax last weekend and just the general behaviour of Manchester United fans over the last decade - but it is permeating most clubs.

Many of our complaints about Venkys are fully justified, but even here we see fans expressing some expectation that an owner should be writing blank cheques to fund their own footballing wet dream.

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Why did JDT get noticed last season? Top 6 throughout and a cup quarter final beating PL sides along the way.

He has us, say, 13th this time but playing ‘good’ football that will get him a higher profile and more of a chance of a big job etc than being at the top end of the league?

Don’t agree, sorry.

I think the combination of a relatively successful season and developing an identity of playing a good brand of football will likely increase his reputation regardless of the results (assuming that they aren't absolutely catastrophic). 

We're only a few weeks into the season, but I've already had more non-Rovers supporting contacts mention our good style of football than I had comments last season about us being in the playoff places.

People will see encouraging highlights and see the stats breakdown about our attacking style and they'll think that this is translatable to a higher level and that he would deliver better results with a better squad. 

The managers that get the most attention now are those that have a clearly recognisable style and system. JDT is establishing that here and it will garner attention even if we are midtable.

19 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I did read it, sounds like nonsense to me. He got noticed last season for having us up there throughout and in a cup QF, not ‘playing the right way’ as we were pretty prosaic for the most part.

You can disagree with it, but not sure exactly how it can 'sound like nonsense'. 

Recent history would show that managers that play with a certain style tend to get more media attention.

7 hours ago, philipl said:

Most important for me- apart from penalties preparation- is that Wahlstedt unambiguously states his claim for a start against Leicester.

Whilst I mostly agree, do we really want Wahlstedt to make his league debut against a team that we will ship a bare minimum of 2 goals against? 

JDT seems reluctant to drop keepers, but a 5-0 drubbing might make him rethink his choice. Then again, if Pears somehow pulled off a clean sheet he would be undroppable.

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Seems odd to me that the CEO of Rovers would have an email address in which letters are substituted for numbers. If nothing else it looks totally unprofessional. 

Couldn't agree more, to the point that I can barely believe that it is real. 

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

A lot of those who travelled the length of the country twice in the last couple of weeks might be starting to view things a little different.

It's not about making JDT look good so he can court attention it's about finding the right formula to get points in this league not get pats on the back for being gallant losers,

I didn't say it was about making him look good, just that this style might make him look good. 

On 11/09/2023 at 00:41, Upside Down said:

It's all very deliberately done to erode the fan base. Fewer people around who can jump up and down about the sorry state of things.

With the way things are looking we'll be dropping into league one in a couple of years. All in a very managed and deliberate manner.

I love this idea. It's the flaw in most conspiracy theories.

It relies on perfect incompetence paired with incredible foresight.

I don't buy all of the conspiracy theories about JDT being on the verge of leaving.

That being said, I can slightly believe that he may see this season as a bit of a lost cause and may have identified some value in being a manager who gets a side to play a certain 'brand' of football.

He will get more attention out of us playing good football and finishing 12th than he will out of us playing Allardyce-esque football and finishing 5th and going out in the playoff semis.

I still enjoy it. I want to be entertained by the club that I support and I know that I am guaranteed value for my time when a match rolls around...although I would like Pears dropped.