Problem is whilst we rely heavily on Ben it is very much an eggs in one basket sort of thing. 

Yes he would be a huge loss but he's going to be a huge loss next season as well. And my biggest fear with all this pressure on him is what if he gets injured or goes off the boil? Both are possible. What if we get key injuries in other places we have little cover?

I do wonder if £10 million well spent could push us to promotion. Maybe a couple of strikers (perhaps one on loan) and cover for a position we have little depth in. That could be the difference for promotion and lessens the risk all round. 

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

Seeing as TM was in charge it would still would have been outside of the playoffs tbf.

As for Raya wanting to leave - considering how Mowbray treated him I'm not surprised.

 

Agree with second point and probably agree with the first too. Certainly the fact  he messed up every season in different circumstances is huge evidence suggesting that he would have messed it up anyway.

But I also recall we lost a few tight games due to his howlers and do wonder what might have been. 

19 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Apropos of nothing, saw that Walton fella flapping at one in a third division game the other week…

I'm surprised he got that close to it... 

In some ways this horrific mistake has been mitigated by Kaminski being here. Issues are that it was an unnecessary change, we missed out on much larger money for him and of course the Walton debacle which was a complete handicap to the team. Only one season but my word he was rubbish and cost us big time. Without his howlers, who knows where we would have been. 

3 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Sorry to pick you up specifically on this as I know it's a widely held view amongst many on here, but isn't this just a tad premature? They've had the grand total of what, 6 x 90 mins between them in 3 months? Much of which has been 20 mins here, 30 mins there, and often in away performances where generally the team has played poorly anyway?

And you're putting them in the same basket as Chris Brown, Joe Nuttall, David Goodwillie, Anthony Stokes, Liam Feeney et al?

Give the guys a break, c'mon!

It's a fair point they do have time to develop. And I hope they do surprise us. Bereton certainly did after 2 years of showing nothing coming good, so it's possible but it's more the exception than the rule. Maybe we should pack them both off to South America. 

That said it didn't take too much to clock those other guys weren't good, and the signs have been that both these chaps are pretty poor. I think I'd feel more comfortable not naming them so if I saw a definable quality in them, some potential. But I can't think of one thing they are showing which is decent or promising, a strength or an asset if you like. They aren't fast, they don't have presence, they don't strike me as that quick nor predatory or good in the air. Maybe it's a bit early to judge but the early signs imo are very discouraging. And Hirst certainly doesn't look anywhere near worth spending 4 million on. 

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

But people keep going on about him days after days even after a win where he didn't play. 

Of course, it is true, Dack is number 10 whilst Vale and Hirst are main strikers. 

We just have to simply agree to disagree on this topic

Kinda disappointed you didn't acknowledge or engage with any of my points 😟 Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but some acknowledgement of the points In made would be nice. It feels like you have totally ignored everything I said! 

For example I gave 3 reasons why people are still going on about Dack. Fair enough dispute those reasons and their validity - MB is all about debate - but it doesn't help any discussion to ignore what the other person says. Likewise I say why I think the different natural positions  doesn't prevent a comparison. Again, that's totally ignored. Disagree, sure but at least engage with the points I've made, in what I hope is a respectful manner. 

To clarify I don't want everyone to agree with me (well not much anyway 😉) but to engage with what's actually posted. 

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yet again Most of the talk since Saturday win which was our eighth home win this season and we are second in the league, people focus is on Dack not featuring game after game instead of the players that have played a major part or some part in our season or the game, where we have the best home record in the championship, second in the league and 8 clean sheets already this season. It baffles me how much of an issue this is for fans to be honest. 

Come on Chaddy, it shouldn't be a surprise. The abysmal defeats when we look toothless, weaker players playing ahead of him, plus his history at Rovers. No way you should be surprised by this. I take your point that there are a ton of positives and that these outweigh the negatives, but to say this is a surprise topic is a tad naive. Lots of reasons I've mentioned as to why it's a topic that's being discussed. The biggest one for me being just imagine where we'd be using him instead of Vale or Hirst. 

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dack played a different position to Vale or Hirst, so the comparison isn't correct and right. People will disagree and that's fine by myself.  

Well that's not true either. The comparison is valid because a) all three are in the team to score and create goals and b) natural/preferred position doesn't prevent us comparing how one would do outside of that natural position. We can still evaluate their skills there. Different natural positions doesn't protect them. Example no 1 Nayambe's natural position was RB, however given his abilities etc he was still a better bet at CB for us than say Greer. Messi's best position say is as a wide forward but it would be daft to say he wouldn't offer not more up top than Brown did for example. 

Not sure why you are so keen to defend JDT's use of two of the worst forwards in Rovers history. 

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Dack might have made a different or he might not have done in those games, but we will do as fact that the in the games we have won that has led us second place and 5 wins in 6 last games he has barely feature and only played 29 mins of the last 6 games. 

Szmodics has started 4 out the last 6 games (plus another sub appearance) which we won 5 of those 6 games. Szmodics has 3 goals and 1 assist in 14 league appearances. 

You said Dack is miles better than Dolan, Hirst or Vale even tho he can't play in those positions as they do. Based on his performance this season in the league this isn't true. Dolan has 2 goals and 4 assists this season in championship 

If we are basing it on performance, as oppose to blind loyalty to what the manager choses, then clearly he has done more than Hirst and Vale. They have offered the square root of naff all when they have played, which is far less than the glimpses of quality Dack has chosen. 

Look, I get it, JDT doesn't like Dack, and if I am honest I think the wages could be better spent come January. But to pretend Vale and Hirst are better options is plain daft, as neither have shown an ounce of ability, whereas Dack has shown the odd glimpse now, and showed a lot more prior to injury. 

Hirst at £4 seems risky. At £4 million it's lunacy. Mind you given how long it took for Bereton to come good I can see the owners allowing it. 

For me it has to be a striker. We need a striker who isn't a dead weight like the current cover. 

Second is a defensive mid. For all I like Morton and Warton they aren't really defensive mids and without Travis we need someone in there who can do the dirty work. 

Full back is the third position where cover is needed. Definitely need one, maybe two as without the regular 2 we look much more disjointed. 

If we had more capacity for deals I'd be loaning out a few of the youth and getting them regular game time and bringing in other cover. There's a few who I feel could do with a loan out. 

2 hours ago, booth said:

Hedges mainly as he can be a handful, and Gallagher can surprise the oppo with a goal so they have to keep an eye on him. Compared to Vale/Hirst he's world class.
 

Would agree with this. In many ways - in his best position - Gally is an average championship striker at best. And if we had another average championship striker as cover there'd be much less issues. The problem is as you say the other two are utterly appalling and offer nothing. It's like playing with 10 men. Even a minor amount of vaguely adequate cover and we'd be in a miles better position. 

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't do wind ups Dreams as you should really know given my long-term posting history on here

Firstly, Dack and Markanday aren't strikers. 

Leonard isn't ready yet. 

I think Vale is better coming off the bench. So Yes, I would start Hirst if Gallagher were not fit enough to start. I won't write him off like many others have, and I will back the Rovers recruitment department, Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson. 

Dack is moreof a striker than Hirst and Vale. And yes I know that's not his position. 

Goodness Ayala up top is a better bet than those two. 

Also - and this is key- there's a difference between writing someone off and thinking they are currently nowhere near the level needed at present. Currently both are offering us nothing. 

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

I can't believe that Hirst would be ahead of Dack. I'd rather have Dack roll on in a wheelchair than give Hirst a run out.

Forget Dack I'd take the wheelchair over Hirst. 

9 hours ago, BRFC4EVA said:

I don't want to be too harsh as he's got us to 2nd and he is a young manager still learning.

However he needs to take a large amount of responsibility for tonight with bizarre decision making.

1.) No Pickering and putting Brittain Lwb/ Travis Rwb. Should have Pickering lwb, Brittain Rwb and Travis in midfield.

2.) Hirst for Vale at HT. Hirst is a complete waste of space, why isn't Dack being brought on?

3.) Waiting far too long to make changes. That triple change should have taken place 20 mins before that.

All round extremely frustrating and an almost carbon copy of Cardiff and wigan.

 

1 May be defensible.if Pickering was knackered/carrying a knock. Not ideal and perhaps another full back needed, but I'm not sure it's JDTs fault that Edun is no good and we haven't had more than one right back in the squad since 1932. My bigger worry on this was not having bite in cm. It is so obvious we needed that. Travis had to play cm. 

2 Absolutely. How come Buckley is dropped from the team for terrible form yet these two chancers get game time? Madness. Not saying Buckley's had a good season but it smacks of.double standards. We are always going to have limited and inconsistent players - especially as a championship team - and that's the risk you take with players. But no team can afford utter passengers who are liabilities. That's shooting yourself in the foot and what happens playing these 2. 

3.Spot on. It's so little time and when you consider how much the ball is actually in play it's asking a hell of a lot in no time at all. There's also no margin for error. Let's say Dack creates a good chance or two in his meager time, the keeper could pull off a worldie or there he a bad call from the ref. With enough time you can overcome these issues, not in 10 mins. Worst of all it blatantly wasn't working so why wait so long. 

1 minute ago, garnersfags said:

I agree we need a decent back-up striker, but that isn't the reason we play so badly away.

JDT has repeatedly made unfathomable decisions during out pitiful away run, and that has been our downfall. 

The players just don't buy into the experiment when they are away from Ewood. 

Pickering instead of Vale tonight would have provided some solidity which we would have built from, and at least prevented wave after wave of penetrative attacks from a team that lost at home on Saturday.

There is no way that JDT would ever look at how lowly Blackpool came away from Coventry with 3 points, only 3 days ago. 

We may win this, against all odds, but that doesn't change the fact that our starting selection was bloody clueless!!!!!!!

I'm devastated. 

Yes there are other issues too. Totally agree it's not the sole issue 

But I do think a striker who y'know gave them something to think about might also relieve some pressure. 

13 minutes ago, booth said:

A good striker and a couple of fullbacks I'd say.

The ones we have are ok. And a fair few who can do a job there. Maybe another one or a defensive mid to cover when Travis goes full back. 

Ok, so maybe one more good option outside of a striker. But I still think a striker is more pressing as these two are so off the pace it's untrue. 

We are another good striker away from being a good team. Even when playing badly if we had someone with either a bit of presence, threat of trickery in them, we would be more likely to get a few comebacks. (Dack perhaps could be that person...) As it is we have the most useless back up strike duo in Vale and Hirst since Varney and Brown. Stuffed how anyone thinks these guys are going to be a success

45 minutes ago, rigger said:

But I would doubt that Dacks wages are £4-5K/week. At what £ level would you say that the other two become a better bet than Dack, taking into consideration we are a championship club, with a championship budget.

I wouldn't disagree with you here buddy. (Other than I know his wages aren't that, it's hypothetical as in if he were on that he would still be in the team ) My initial point was on talent alone no one would put him behind the other two. 

As for the other two and at what level £ better bet. Thing is I don't really rate either of them. The pragmatist in me is happy to trade Dack for 2 longer term decent players but neither of them strike me as decent. Neither has shown me anywhere near enough to make that kind of swap. Neither seem to be able to cut it at this level or look likely to. So at the moment I wouldn't make the swap with those 2 said players. With others, yes. 

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Book an appointment for JDT. And his is the opinion that counts.

I doubt JDT does think they are better. More a case of him wanting the wages for his players or someone else putting pressure on to get rid. Maybe he doesn't think Dacks value for money for his talent. However I seriously doubt it's on pure ability Dacks not in the team! Put it this way, if his wages were around £4-5k/week I've no doubt he'd be ahead of both of the other 2. 

If anyone genuinely thinks Hirst or Vale are better options off the bench than Dack then they need to go to Specsavers. 

I get it's a game of opinions but neither of them have shown anything whatsoever. Contrast with what Dack has ability wise and his potential to return to pre injury Dack and it's a no brainer that he is miles better as an impact sub. 

Can his wages be spent much better for the y? Absolutely - but not till Jan. Therefore he remains the best (or one of) attacking options from the bench and should be used accordingly. 

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Would you called this season attendances poor? are you season ticket holder? 

Yes. No. And the 2 are mutually exclusive. 

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Can you please explain this point please? 

Certainly, Bereton for example did nothing for 2 years despite costing a huge sum for us, and yet there were no consequences for TM of having used such a huge chunk of his budget for no return for 2 years and no commensurate return for 3. Can't think of any other club where that would be allowed. 

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Interesting question there. I think Carrick and Woodgate are close friends and he knows the club. I wonder if who else he brings in. Last week it was reported he wanted Mike Phelan, Rene Meulensteen and Alex Bruce on his staff. 

Sad if appointing on friendship rather than ability. I'm not sure knowing the club or similar really helps unless it's a basket case or particular set of circumstances. 

I'm all for an experienced number 2 rookie manager with the right background research but my word if Woodgate is the experience it's a worrying lookout.  

Who would want Woodgate on their staff? He's done crap as a manager and stepped in when his former boss got the boot. Hardly that experienced either. Not sure what he brings. 

Football is a game of opinions and there are many ways of seeing the same thing. Perspective makes a difference. 

That said when you have 3 relegation worthy streaks running months on end, when good players regularly can run down contracts, when the CEO - or whatever Waggots official title is (if he doesn't have one I can make some suggestions) gets away with poor attendances year on year, when big investments take years to come to fruition - I can't see how that shouts out anything other than indifferent. If that's them bothered then heaven help us if they lose interest. 

Who would have thought a league with more than 2 strong teams would have been more difficult? Can't say he wasn't backed either. 

Early days given it's a few months at QPR but was Beale the power behind the hottest? 

2 minutes ago, BRFC4EVA said:

Not bad results there for us. Obviously qpr against 10 men at home, but a late brum equaliser and cov winner was a decent return from 3 quite winnable fixtures for our top of the table rivals

Excellent I'd say. Especially given QPR could lose their manager which may disrupt them somewhat. 

18 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

We'd need another goal scorer to really push for promotion.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brereton goes in January and Gallagher / Dolan / Hirst isn't a consistent source of goals - they'll chip in at best.

If they rely on those 3 for goals then they really should be fired. Clearly non of those 3 are remotely near to carrying the burden. Goodness I'm not even sure what Hirst brings to the party.