Just now, jim mk2 said:

Brereton deserves the benefit of the doubt at present but in 12 months time, and he has shown no improvement, then I think it will be fair to say the club have made a huge mistake in signing him. 

Top young strikers who are going to make the grade should have shown more than Brereton has at his age. He plays with Danny Graham in training every day yet has clearly not watched him and learnt yet how to play with his back to goal, how to use his body to shield the ball from defenders and even how to head a ball. He looks weak physically - and if he doesn't toughen up he won't get anywhere because the rest of his game isn't good enough to compensate.

I hope he makes it because he has ability. But it's not as obvious as with the likes of Kalinic and King - both of whom were raw at Rovers and needed time for the games to mature. I just don't see the same basic talent in Brereton. 

I agree with you on the points of what he needs to improve on, and perhaps he's been a bit of a square peg in our round hole hoofy tactics which has exacerbated the differences between him and Graham (both completely different players).  Personally, I think he's shown more than what you give him credit for, particularly on Monday where he for me looked a lot better than previous, but comparing him to the ex-PL Graham, who has been monumental of late, is a bit silly considering the difference in their style of play, physique, that DG has 13 years more experience and, despite being a hot prospect at a PL club at the time, didn't set the world alight until he moved down divisions to Carlisle.

If we compare them at Brereton's age, Graham was a hot prospect at a Prem Club, had scored two for Boro (one in PL), two for Darlington and one for Blackpool, didn't score in a loan spell at Championship Derby and was released following a good spell at L1 Carlisle, who he then signed for. 

We are no longer a Prem side, so the difference between Brereton and Kalinic at his age will be stark anyway.  One was signing for an established PL side, one for a newly-promoted Championship side.  Kalinic was given a load of stick for his supposed poor touch, poor finishing etc, and he's gone on to make a lot of our fans look stupid by becoming one of Europe's top strikers in recent years.  King, again written off by a load of fans, was the same and came good upon leaving.

Personally, I see the talent in BB and I think a lot of fans do too.  I know the majority of us want to see him come good, but like with previous talents signed for big money, a lot of folk seem to hold some sort of grudge.  This is more telling on FB groups where some seem to be willing him to fail.

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I know where you're coming from, but it's very rare that a player who looked so off what is required became top player. I suppose two who could be cited are strikers - Kalinic and King. Totally written off by most fans but went on to have superb seasons for other clubs.

We have to hope Brereton is similar.

It's just when you look at a player like  Rothwell or Travis for example you can see immediately they have the required quality. And when you compare Brereton to that it seems a very big gap he has to grow through.

Very true, both completely written off by some supporters and established themselves as top-flight players, yet both were older than Brereton when we signed them.

Oh yes, Rothwell and Travis have both been superb of late, but how old were they when they made their big break?  Travis, who has been our shining breakthrough this season, is a year and a half older than Brereton, yet only came into the fold this term.  I'm someone who hasn't watched enough of the u23s to comment much on who looks/has looked good enough, but would Travis have made the cut last season or the season before?  Or would it have come a bit soon and he have looked a touch out of his depth?

Rothwell is an ex-United player and you must remember, he's 24 now.  Four extra years of development.  I can't say what he looked like then but prior to this season, he'd played a handful of games at Champ level, even when he had the opportunity at Brereton's age, he wasn't trusted to play more than a few games for Blackpool nor the same in the following season for Barnsley in League One... yet at the age of 21-23 established himself as a quality League One player who is only now taking his chance in the Champ.  What's to say Brereton wouldn't tear League One apart when given opportunity?  Four years of development and I'm sure he'll look much more refined than he is now.

I think people have made their minds up on him a bit quickly, and I think the big fee has played a huge part in that.  If he was a youth prospect rising through our ranks, I'm sure the pressure wouldn't have been there and he may have transitioned more smoothly to the first team and we'd all be sat here lauding another future star of our youth system.

Find it baffling a number of people's minds are made up on the lad when he's played a few hundred minutes for us AT THE MOST with over 3/4 of his involvement coming off the bench very late on.  I thought on Saturday he looked far more robust than previous, was constantly asking for the ball (as he has been whenever he's played), lead the line well, linked up for some good play with Rothwell and Dack and bagged a good goal.  In previous cameos you could see he was feeling the pressure of his transfer fee and the lack of goals affected his confidence and thus performances.  I think Monday was the first real taste of what he has to offer and I for one am not going to get on the boy's back, badmouth him and jump on every mistake he makes to try and point-score on social media with the "told you he was s**t" bollocks.  Whatever happened to backing your team's players and wanting them to succeed?

Don't get me wrong, I'd have spent the money differently as I felt investment was needed to sort out our defensive frailties.  Alas, it wasn't, and people are free to malign Mowbray for his choices there, but all talk of the lad being useless is utter claptrap from folk who have seen him play a handful of minutes, haven't the footballing brains to say whether or not he'll make it and quite frankly don't want to own up to being wrong so will no doubt steadfastly defend their position regardless of how well he performs in the future (cognitive dissonance, anyone?).  Those at the game on Monday (or anyone who has watched the full match since), who were watching objectively and not isolating every little mistake the lad made (like we've seen the same fans do with other Rovers players over the years), could see he played well, is clearly a talent and yet still a small group who shout the loudest are saying he played rubbish and missed a few sitters.  Absolute nonsense.

It's unfortunate we have a minute subset of fans who have very much written the lad off and are looking for any excuse to dig at him, simply due to his high price tag/their dislike of the manager (who I have been very critical of this season, not so much on here).  But I'd sooner listen to Mowbray, Karanka (who didn't want him to leave) and the Forest fans who've seen him play a lot more (who also didn't want him to leave) rather than the folk who are expecting a 19 (just turned 20) year old to displace the brilliant Danny Graham and immediately adapt to mostly long-ball football which clearly wasn't suiting his style of play.  I do think he needs to bulk up and become stronger and more of a nuisance but he's raw and learning, and I feel Saturday showed he's come on a lot in that respect from mirroring DG and will only continue to improve.

Edit: typos

Seldom post on here but reaching the end of my tether with this side.  As someone says, this is Bowyer all over again.  A nice bloke, did the job that was necessary when he was put in charge but now finds himself completely out of his depth.  I think there is a fear of who we would get in and whether they could improve on what’s currently going on on the pitch, but with a defence leakier than when that sheyster Coyle was in charge says it all.  Now we await the usual sound bites from our manager.  Things could turn real sour if we fail to pick up at least three points from our next two. 

Just now, 1arC said:

Looks like my post did the trick and they have taken the Kean story down now.

Haha what did you post? (Feel free to PM)

The article had been uploaded and removed before I had the chance to anger myself by clicking it.

So you havent seen them every week like ParsonBlue?

I get to see them when time allows. Always been impressed by Doyle every time Ive seen him.

Raya should be starting every game at the minute

You must remember, they are often playing against fellow youth players who likely won't make it at Championship level. I can't be bothered looking up the statistics, but I'd wager it's a small % of academy prospects who make it at Champ level or above. I'm all for giving youth a chance, but this idea we have like 6+ youth players ready and good enough to step into the first team is folly. Chuck 'em all in and it would likely result in relegation and even though we are pretty much heading there anyway, avoiding it would be nice.

Wasn't too sure exactly where to put this. But has anyone been down to Ewood lately? Have you noticed how filthy it is? Have a little look if you drive past. Rust on the gates/fencing. The stands are filthy on the outside with clear brown streaks below the wording for the JW stand. It is terrible, and truly a sign of the times under Venky's. Needs a good clean and painting, but our billionaire owners will have trouble covering the costs no doubt, until Marshall and Duffy are sold anyways.

Why does it come back to Bowyer again? I'm bored of this - point is we have potentially good youth players. We have one particularly good keeper who the manager was absolutely blasted for playing 5 times this season but let's not bother getting into that. There is little acknowledgement of the improvement in the youth under Johnson, and I will repeat - this indicative of the current nature of this message board!

O'Connell- whilst not knowing how good he is, based on a Rochdale fan I know he should've stayed. That said, if his contract was up or the offer was good, it's hard to disagree with the decision made without knowing the full details.

It's about time we produced some good homegrown talent as it's been distinctly lacking for a while. Although, I do think that was more due to the nature of the Prem, where young English prospects rarely make it.

It is good to see that the u21s are performing so well. Always nice to see a former player doing well at the club in some capacity. I'd say he's been far more successful than Short has in his influence.

I guess it does come back to Bowyer as it's useless developing the players if they won't get a game. O'Connor, O'Connell and R.Hanley are notable (supposed) talents who have left quite recently. Hope to see the likes of Lenihan, Mahoney and those on the brink of the first team get a shot soon. Rather see them succeed at Rovers than elsewhere.

I guess it is a ray of light from the dark clouds encircling Ewood.

I know a relative of one of our current u21 squad members. I've heard how there is a bit of frustration from those pushing for the first team as they're being told different things. One minute Bowyer is telling them they'll be given a shot in the first team then just the other week he came out and said how he wouldn't. Despite his youth coach background, I hear he's not universally liked.

It does make you wonder how none of the attacking players from our academy/u21s can even make the bench when we have no first team strikers fit (except Rhodes). When we go a goal down, we have no one to chuck on and even try and change the game. Perhaps they aren't ready to feature in the first team regularly but surely they aren't all complete rubbish and one of them could make the bench here and there?

Anyone else just see Neuer's save from a Walcott header? Amazing.

On the plus side, we get to witness the return of the brilliant long throw tactic that served us so well in the past.

Quick, add this to the positivity thread before it's too late!

Well we did get told to look forwards to the great battle for left back I suppose. The long throw tactic could be useful except they haven't got a clue what to do with it. Seems to be just keep throwing it to the front post in the hope it might actually come off once. Will a goal stand if he chucks it straight in the net because it seems that's the tactic

It will come off once in the entire season and Bowyer will be creaming to the press about it.

It can be useful (got a pretty good throw myself which is occasionally utilised) but it can be more effective to throw it short and keep possession or to put a cross in. It depends on how accurate the thrower is, the personnel in the box and the opposition. In our case, Spurr can throw it long with little accuracy, we don't have many tall players and usually the opposition CBs or keeper mop it up.

We should sign this lad up as a striker....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33873951

Imagine Bowyer was in charge of ADO. That keeper would have been banned from going up, would have been fined for defying orders and dropped for the next game.

The last couple of seasons we were a top half side who, given a good run, might make the play-offs. This campaign we are a mid to lower table team who could, with a poor run, be involved in a relegation battle. Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

I think the squad we had last year was more than capable of making play-offs. With that strike force, especially. I think Bowyer held the team back last season and that shall continue this time round. Now, we have a squad capable of top half IMO, but a manager who won't be able to deliver this.

At what point would you say Bowyer deserves the job til PB? Let's say he has us lower half this season and we are out of the embargo next summer. Then he's been in the job nearly four years with (unless we have a miraculous play-off flirt at some point this season) only getting into the play-offs on two occasions for less than a week. That's poor. Surely the onus would then be on promotion or Bowyer goes if we get out the embargo next summer? He just seems to have a job for life in the eyes of some and I think that's wrong. In fact, I think he knows his job is secure, hence the complacency.

I felt he should have gone last year, should certainly be replaced now but I know he won't. Worry is, the future of Gary Bowyer seems to be taking precedence over the future of BRFC. How many more years can we plod along mid-table (if we're lucky) under Bowyer whilst the club racks up hundreds of millions in debt? IMO, Bowyer's recent employment has and will continue to damage the club. The lack of ambition to push for promotion is startling. This could solve our financial plight, instead we continue to lay our trust in a poor manager who can not get the best out of a talented team, never mind a depleted one.

If we stay up this year and Bowyer isn't potted when/if we are out of the embargo, then I will be convinced he has a job for life. He spent money before the embargo and had a go at promotion. It didn't work. Twice. I doubt third time will be a charm. He might be decent at bringing players in but we can not continue to place trust in a man who is tactically inept. We can't afford to. We'll just end up back in the embargo, saying the same things.

The popular papers back all the "big clubs" - because it is in their interests to do so. The big clubs have the most fans / readers.

How do you know "the majority of their readers hate United" ? Seeing as United probably have the biggest fanbase in the country it is highly unlikely anyway.

Was the Moyes reporting gleeful ? I don't think so - just a cracking story.

You're wrong on this. There's no anti-ManU agenda in the media.

I'd imagine under 50% of readers are Utd fans.

And if you're not a Utd fan and you don't despise them even just a little bit then you're not right!

Wasn't suited to the lone striker role. Was someone who relied on link-up play with a partner. Wasn't a world beater obviously but I think he wasn't given the proper opportunity to showcase his ability. We were never going to play two up top though and therefore it was a stupid purchase.

Playing as lone striker in a 4-5-1 tonight. Appears to be working.

very good natural goal scorer when he gets the support(which he wasn't really given here for whatever reasons)

Agreed. Nice goal, good flick and move to then finish the cross with a strong header.

Kalinic just bagged in Europa League final

You're just looking for things to moan about. Bowyer said he would give O'Sullivan a run-out before the end of the season and he has. The only people who said he should play at Reading were on here and fortunately none of you manage the club.

I'm not. Some who attended wanted to see the youngsters given a run out. The hilarity was in the defence by posters who insisted Bowyer was resting them for the youth cup final and made a huge deal out of it, only to be proven wrong by their omission. If anyone seemed so sure they were privy to Bowyer's "logic", it was those in his defence.

Regardless of him not playing the youth vs Reading, I still find it bizarre that no further subs were made after the 60th.

Or perhaps the people saying that weren't privy to the manager's thoughts and you had no idea who would be picked for tonight (and come on as sub). If your post proves anyone to be clueless, it isn't the manager.

You've clearly misunderstood. I wasn't talking about tonight. The issue is why were they left out vs Reading? Some defended Bowyer by claiming they were being rested for the youth cup game, as it was their "biggest game of the season". They clearly weren't, as they didn't play. Yes, O'Sullivan played tonight, which is great, but I see no reason why they weren't given at least a run out on Saturday. After the backlash from some posters defending Bowyer's decision to rest them at Reading citing it was specifically for the youth final, it is a little humorous how they didn't feature.

You mean like the forest away game? or Taylor and Conway changing the Fulham away game? Tunnicliffe coming off the bench and grabbing the game by the neck in the reading home game?

Granted - this is not consistent in every game, but its plain to see he is not "clueless"

He doesn't always get it right. I think that is one of his weakest areas but to take the u21s discussion into another different little reason to moan - gah its practically mind rotting. I'm only posting because i'm specifically trying to take my mind off something and this is my last reply to this argument thats spewed from the GB discussion thread.

I'd say he gets selections and subs wrong more often than he gets it right. I'd wager that if I was put in charge of Rovers now (assuming I had a footballing background and thus would command at least a bit of respect from the players) that I would make the odd correct selection/sub. And that applies for almost everyone.

One example I use as to why he is certainly lacking tactically. When I saw us play Norwich at home. Olsson and Redmond on Norwich's left flank = lots of pace and overlapping. So he plays Baptiste RB with Cairney on the wing. Cairney, as a natural CM was clearly going to get sucked inside and leave Baptiste exposed. A couple of times Olsson got in behind due to this but luckily nothing came of it, and even more luckily Baptiste had an absolute stormer.

It was obvious to a blind man that this would happen yet Bowyer seemingly didn't account for this. Little things like this make a difference over the course of the season and, forgetting the consistently inverted wingers and the hoofball tactics, I think he has proven time again that he just doesn't have the brains to outwit the better managers in this league (which explains our record against the teams above us).

Forgetting two years of indifferent form, which would suggest that GB is tactically inconsistent rather than clueless...

Not throwing the kids in is now the definition of "clueless"?

The u21s is an avenue for us to set a style of play that matches the first team (did anyone see the winger setup btw) and to push players into contention for first team places. The first team is a big step up for many, in some peoples opinion too big for a few of our current first teamers namely our captain.

Jake Kean is an example of mishandling(ahem) of youth players. If these players are ready, they will be chosen. Do I think GB will consistently get the decision on whether it is the right time or not? I doubt it. But I also have faith that he knows better than throwing in Edinho Jr esq "Greenhorns".

As I said, the time has probably come for a few of this current batch but there can only be 11 players on the pitch at one time. I personally would stick Raya in the net for the last few games and let Eastwood and Steele go get ready to fight out for No1 spot next season.

Not making another sub after the standard one made in the 60th minute whilst our team delivers a lacklustre performance in a nothing game. It just stinks of the guy not having a clue/not being arsed/being too scared to even play the kids. I don't understand why he wouldn't make a couple of changes to at least bring a spark to a woeful away showing in front of paying, travelling fans.

We've all seen how dodgy he is with subs throughout the season Jbizzle.

I don't agree with you Mustard. To bring this back to the true topic, The u21s and academy has improved tenfold in the past year and that is down to the changing tide behind the doors at ewood. No more "new Stevie Gee's", no more Agents sons, no more 10k a week for sheffield reserve players.

Fair enough. I'm not questioning the progression of the academy after Kean et al systematically tore it apart. What I am questioning is Bowyer's decision to not throw any kids on vs Reading, the subsequent excuses of those who defend him claiming it was for the u21 cup final, only to be proven that they weren't included in that game due to first team commitments, highlighting that Bowyer did in fact leave them out of the Reading game as he's tactically clueless.

So just to confirm, Bowyer didn't play the youth players vs Reading as they needed resting for the cup final and was defended to the hilt for his decision to not chuck them on...

Now the same youth players didn't feature in the youth cup game in prep for a first team game? Still waiting for some to defend Bowyer's decision to not play them now...

Let's just all agree, Bowyer is clueless.