27 minutes ago, J*B said:

Looks to me more like Mani has made a point which everyone disagrees with (FWIW I think Souness, Allardyce and Hughes all had teams that worked much harder than Mowbrays) and is sticking to it regardless. 

If it becomes trolling we will of course take action. As it stands it's just an opinion nobody agrees with.

Thank you. This is exactly the case.

Just now, Mattyblue said:

You are now talking about Mowbray as a manager. He came second with the biggest budget by the way and then finished 15th after spending over £10million quid.

Thought your ill thought out point was this was unequivocally the hardest working team we’ve had for 25 years? We’ve ‘pretty much proven’ you are talking tripe.

Hahaha  firstly £10m is pretty low by today’s standards. The accounts say 7.6m? But whatever. 

Secondly, you’ve massively embarrassed yourself with the Hughes comparison as has been proven. You’d have been better comparing Allardyce’s team who had a similarly modest budget and achieved decent results through hard work and organisation.

And finally...IN MY OPINION, Mowbrays team work harder than any team since 94/95. I’ve been a season ticket holder for all but 5 seasons when there was no need for me to buy tickets. I chose not to go during Keans last season. 

Just now, arbitro said:

Indeed he did. I vividly remember one of the first things Hughes did was bringing the players in for double sessions because he recognised they were ridiculously unfit and under prepared. I had it at the time from one of the club staff that Souness completely lost interest. Hughes picked up the club by its bootlaces and turned us into a real force.

In Mowbrays first few months we were relegated. Comparisons in my opinion are futile and baseless.

Souness was disinterested. In May 2004 he was inconsolable following a defeat to Spurs which effectively cost him the offering of that job.

Hughes picked up a FAR better team than Mowbray in October 2004, had a transfer window and finally finished 15th after being in around the relegation zone pretty much all season.

Mowbray picked up an absolute basket case club with a team 23rd in the league and 3points adrift of safety on 22nd Feb. He averaged points of a mid to top 10 team without a chance to even change the team and went down on the final day of the season on the highest ever points to be relegated out of the Championship.

I didn’t begin the comparison. But by humouring this terrible point I’ve pretty much proven that you can’t compare them because basically Hughes was was in a 10000% better position to succeed. 

Just now, Mattyblue said:

First game of the season shortly before he left. Even the players that stand out were past it - Amorouso, Yorke, Short. 

Ferguson was dreadful and shortly left.

Hughes had us top 6 in the Premier League the season after.

Yeah, Souness had been looking to leave for 12 months. He was disinterested. Hughes was in a relegation fight for most of his first season and managed to steer us clear of trouble. But then he got a shit load more of investment as per my previous post and added to the nucleus of good players he had was able to finish 6th the next season. That team did work hard. But they also had some absolutely CLASS players. Bellamy? Tugay?...

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Personally think Hughes had inherited a team on the way down in October 2004. Souness has totally lost it by the stage. The quality of the 2001 - 2003 period had quickly disintegrated.

Souness wanted out for 12 months before he went. He was courting the Spurs job before Newcastle. But don’t doubt the quality of players that he left Hughes. 

Granted he made the best of them and added considerably but the foundations were there.

22 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I think you need to look again at the squad we had that year - I see a quality spine from Friedel to Nelsen to Tugay to Bellamy.

Omg...absolutely!! Completely forgot about Tugay, Flitcroft, Pederson, Nelson, Samba etc who were also there! ?

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Every post on here is an opinion, but I believe yours is tripe, as I said.

 I know who Id want to be in the trenches with and it would be that Hughes side any day of the week.

Top pros with an edge. Mogga’s lot don’t come close. 

Yes Hughes’ team had better players, but we were in the PL - were they a Collection of players that were 6th best in England on paper? No chance, it was the graft that got them there. Is this team achieving more than it should through hard work? I wouldn’t say so, it is a bottom half quality team in the bottom half.

Hughes team was very good and as I said without doubt the closest to Mowbrays in terms of work rate. But don’t underestimate the work Souness had done using financial power from 2001. Cole, Yorke, Ferguson, Emerton, Reid etc were signed for fees on big wages and his (Souness) team had finished in the top 10 for two out of three seasons before Hughes came in. They’d also won the league cup. Hughes came in and signed....Savage, Bentley, Bellamy, Santa Cruz, Ooijer, Benni McCarthy, Stephen Warnock, Dunny and Jason Roberts etc didn’t come cheap. Wages for some of those would’ve been astronomical. Most had seven figure fees attached too. Hughes and Souness certainly benefited and their league finishes reflected that. Yeah, Hughes finished 6th in 2006 as had Souness 3yrs before him. He also finished 10th and 15th during his time, as did Souness. The point I’m making is that there was nothing remarkable about those outcomes when you consider the investment. It wasn’t just ‘graft’. 

Mowbrays picked us up in a FAR worse position than Hughes. We came up and finished highest of the promoted teams and but for a blip after Christmas would’ve been flirting with the top 6 come May. The accounts say we spent £7m on fees or whatever but putting that into context in terms of what some of the teams spent on fees and wages it’s not much. 

They get through most games by working harder than the opposition. Hoping from a bit of quality from £750k Dack, 33yr Old DG or latterly a player we signed from Oxford named Rothwell! ‘Fans’ bleat on and on about Brereton who is yet to make an impact but I’m pretty sure that’s going to bite a few on the ass this season! 

So yeah, that just about covers it pal. Case closed. ???

13 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The Hughes team lacked quality in the context of the top 6 of the Premier League, but that’s where they ended up. Through sheer guts and hard work.

Dont talk tripe Paul.

Hughes team had plenty of quality and financial investment. Was probably the closest in terms of working hard to Mowbrays. 

27 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

You are clearly saying that Mowbray's teams work harder than any others since 1995 which is complete nonsense, imho.

That’s correct.

Just opinions ladies, don’t get upset ?

Hey, @Sparks Rover - Whiteman back on now Adkins is out of the way at Hull? ?

I’m not re-writing anything. I’m not saying either that this team is anywhere close (in quality) to Hughes, Souness or Allardyces teams. I’m saying that imo this is the hardest working Rovers team since we won the league! This team comes up short in quality but never in work ethic...there’s no agenda (or narrative) here. I’m a fan like anyone else. I have no relationship with Mowbray or anyone still at the club. 

Lots getting upset about the comment I made regarding fans not putting their hands in their pockets. I completely stand by it.

There was a time during the Kean era that I couldn’t go anymore. The team had stopped caring. I could forgive them  not being good enough but not caring was intolerable for me to see as a fan. I was worn out and I couldn’t relate to the club.

The first shoots of positivity came when Mowbray arrived. An honesty. The team were working hard. They cared again. This is all any fan should need imo. Furthermore, Venkys seemed to change and the sales stopped. They began to invest. 

I’m not saying that any of this rights the wrongs of what went on. I felt that pain too but Jesus, get over it. We’ve got an honest, decent guy managing us, a group of players who may come up short on ability but work harder than any Rovers team since 94/95 and owners who continue to fund us. (To the tune of £17m last season alone).

Maybe some still haven’t made their peace and I kind of understand that. But since when did who the club sign become the pre-requisite to whether you go to the game? 

Just now, arbitro said:

I am thinking along the same lines. Both Mowbray and Waggot were ebullient prior to going to see the Indians but since their return it's almost like they are trying to dampen the false hope they gave to the supporters.

That’s fair. Want to hear Mowbray first interview back. He’ll give more away than Waggott.

13 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Ive not been paying complete attention to the transfer market but am I right in thinking a few weeks ago we were looking at young players who could add value with a team of people scouting Europe for gems. Now we’re after washed up championship campaigners. 

That seems to be something of a 180 degree turn.  

No, the message was pretty clear (in his forum) from Mowbray that his target was to get into the top 6. He also stated that having bought potential last season, he was looking to add Championship experience and pick some gems up in the European market. All dependant on budget of course! 

Im still interested to know what that will play out to be. Waggott said it was similar to last season. That was fairly healthy.

What is laughable is the amount of people insisting on us having a good budget but won’t even put their hand in their pocket for a season ticket to support their beloved team!? ??

First signing this week? 

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Good keepers make it all look easy. The save from Moura in particular was an excellent one. Got down like lightening to it. He was solid from crosses as well. 

The key to how a top class keeper improves a team isn’t how many saves they make. It’s the confidence that they give their team mates that they can be relied upon. 

Allison vs Karius is the perfect portrayal of that. 

Yup, quite a few overreacting as per. Downing hasn’t signed anything yet. Moreover, surely any signings have to be looked at in full context. Any signing can look good or bad as a one off. 

Downing doesn’t particularly inspire me either. Let’s see how it plays out.

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

A common myth. Look at last season. Benrahma, Canos and Watkins at Brentford. Hernandez and Buendia at Norwich. Harrison at Leeds. Barkhuizen at Preston. Murphy, Montero, Barnes and Phillips at WBA. Adomah, Green and El Ghazi at Villa. Wilson, Jozefzoon and Holmes at Derby. Lolley at Forest. Eliasson at Bristol City. James and Dyer at Swansea. Grosicki and Bowen at Hull. Ince and McLean at Stoke. Taylor at Rotherham. Maghoma at Birmingham. Osayi Samuel at QPR. Edwards at Ipswich. Ameobi at Bolton.

One or two of them may be wingers who play on their weaker side and cut in, but wingers are very much still effective. I also think from our current team, Armstrong is 100x more effective on the right playing as a winger than on the left repeatedly coming into traffic.

 

I think you’ve just perfectly corroborated  my point.

Wingers in the truest sense are Ripley and Wilcox, kanchelskis and Giggs (before he was converted). Wingers are quick. Their job it to stay out wide and offer options down the outside of full backs. Right footers play on the right and left footers on the left. They do this because their job in the last third, when they’re not dribbling past full backs is to take one touch out of their feet, open their bodies up and swing in a cross.

Barely any of the other players you have mentioned do a job even close to this now. They are wide attackers who are usually utilised on the opposite side to their preferred foot. Their job is to play creatively in the space between midfield and the oppositions defence in ‘pockets’ and then to make runs between the fullback and cb from an “out to in” perspective. 

Adam Armstrong is not a winger and never has been. Regardless of which side he plays.

So yeah, no one plays with wingers ??

I don’t know anyone who plays with out and out wingers these days tbh.

9 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

I agree. How many teams will be forced to sell? Swansea need 30 million, Leeds look like selling without an injection of capital given eleven sports owner Radrazzani who owns Leeds is actively touting them and lost tv rights.

middlesborough are offloading to comply with ffp, Steve Gibson has launched legal action against Derby for selling there ground which is delaying Wednesday and their Thai owner doing the same depending on this outcome. West Brom need to offload and lost Gayle 25 goals. 

Huddersfield won’t spend under a new local owner and bound to lose Lossl and the big German their crux of defence. Hull are selling any asset going usually so I’d be surprised to see Bowen there in September especially as he’s a HG player for any Prem side (Burnley).  Another 25 goals.

Birmingham will be watched on any spending and have to pay a fine which is included in ffp calculations, Forest have to sell before buying and I’m sur ethere 5milluon court case against Fawaz over the sale agreement and purchased debt must be in ffp calculations too.

Other than Fulham and Stoke maybe Bristol City who I think will go for it I don’t fear anyone next year. Us and Cardiff playoffs as a minimum, Tans held off converting the rest of debt to equity I think he will take this years profit and a meaty parachute and sell the club if they make a decent start minimising his loses much what I think venkys wish to replicate. 

Looking at our lot and the under 30 comment I can see a young marque signing again. Think it’s under 23s from academy whose wages are exempt from ffp. Though it might change dependant on appearances. We’ve a conveyor of talent to bolster us mid season with Magloire and Butterworth. That said our losses of 17million factor in we lost around 5 of revenue was about 12 in reality less any exemptions under ffp and are probably under SCmP which had its own graces. The way we operate now losing circa 12 a year is borderline On ffp but at moment it seems like Cheston and KPMG have found a way to work it without damaging us every year and quietly running us pretty well in that respect. 

Expecting personally two Europeans a striker and defender, a marque English player who won’t command wages. Almost thought we’d hit the nail twice when I saw Matt Clarke from Pompey linked.

Fantastic post. Thanks for the insight into the financials. I also agree on the changing landscape and i believe that we have a real chance next season based on that and the information being recieved from Waggott re the budget.

Re the signings - can you clarify if that’s five or three signings you’re expecting? Any loans? 

48 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Looks like Jacob Murphy’s name has just came up on twitter. Mentioned him back on May 4th, he destroyed us in the replay at Ewood. Would fit in nice with Rothwell and Dack in the three behind. This one has legs.

Came up linked with us? There’s some reported itk posted something a few days ago but I can’t see much...

cracking player!

I said very early on (before the Christmas window and Assombalonga-gate) that the priority had to be a mainline striker. At that point our defence was a little leaky but had yet to break its banks...form after January highlighted our need for defenderS and a commanding goalkeeper but I still say that we need a frontline striker to challenge / replace DG.

This is not me demeaning DG who has been absolutely fantastic. I don’t accept the point that he’s a ‘mid to lower table Championship striker’. But strikers win games. All of the teams chasing promotion have several options available to them. 

Im not going to be one (like a few on here) who write BB off a 20yr Old who has represented his country and is highly rated in the game. I feel wholeheartedly that those who already have could have their words played back to them by their mates poking fun at them for many years to come. But even if BB, AA and Nuttall are all fit, we still need another striking option to challenge and provide ready made cover for that position right now. An Assombalonga, Waghorn, Hugill type with experience and goals at this level.

Very early days yet. I don’t believe for one second that we’ve shown our hand and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if none of the linked players were on Rovers actual list. Patience 

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Sunderlands goalie is decent, much better than the Spaniard. 

I was thinking that. Highly rated and commanding too...