Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

So much work to be done this Summer..we are not far off a total team rebuild if we are to move forward imo,far too many players not up to standard at this level.

Has Mowbray the nous to pick good enough players? Will Venkys back him with hard coin even though they are losing money hand over fist?

There is a lot of uncertainty and worry coming to the fore again,nothing about our situation feels good atm.

 

100%

Just now, Mattyblue said:

This ‘hindsight’ thing again.

It was said on ‘negative brfcs’ repeatedly that the summer spending had the wrong priorities.

Again in January it was repeatedly pointed out that the squad, especially at the back, needed strengthening. 

The fact Mowbray took a different path was his own rank bad management, hindsight doesn’t come into it.

There are a million different angles painted on these forums. Some come true, others do not. I’m not sure what your opinions were back in the summer but up until Christmas you pretty much had egg on your face and you were unlikely to be bouncing around reminding everyone of it. It’s easy to start crowing once your particular opinion comes true. In actual fact, none of us have the football knowledge or first hand experience with those players to have made the right decision.

So you guessed what might happen and it seems to have come true! Well done ??

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Anyone can say that. Unless you can name names that's not even worth a mention. I've never seen is written anywhere they are very good coaches. 

The proof is in the pudding and what they serve up is actually tripe.  For such a dream team they also tend to go on long winless runs like they are doing here and they did in their last job. 

I'm not saying he won't make changes, I'm saying his transfer record is shit and he wont make the RIGHT changes. 

Problems created by himself that he can't find the answers to. I think we're a million miles from a team that could compete at the top end of the table with Mowbray in charge. With a good manager, and 4 or 5 good Championship-quality players in key positions we could make an attempt on the play-offs. That won't happen with Mowbray and Venus here. They are utterly clueless. 

Agree to disagree

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Any other manager on the form we are in would be sacked by now. Why hasn't Mowbray? He's too safe in his job purely because of an extremely easy promotion.

It’s not that simple. There’s an endless amount of teams who are relegated and don’t ever get back up in spite of having ‘better’ players and bigger budgets. 

Managers don’t just get sacked because of the teams form. There’s a whole host of reasons why. Not meeting the season goal, falling out of favour with the directors, losing the fans etc are just some. Imo Tony hasn’t ticked any of those boxes yet. 

Its a sad indictment on football that some fans are so blood thirsty. 

49 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think most people would agree with nearly all of that. The sticking point is  whether he 'deserves' the summer. The rate of decline has been alarming since November (there was a brief resurgence in Jan) and 9 defeats out the last 11 is sacking territory at a normal club. The coaching at the club is very poor IMO - the lack of movement and ideas as an attacking unit and the appalling defending aren't all down to individuals. And if they are does anyone really have any faith in Mowbray's recruitment to put it right? Nah, me neither.

Mowbray is lucky. His narrative has been swallowed whole  - 'I've been loyal because I've got values but I'll make big changes in the summer cos I know what I'm doing and hey presto we'll be challenging for the play-offs next season'. 

I don't believe a word of it but it buys him time, which is exactly his aim. In the meantime he'll blame everyone but himself as we lose every week. It's amazing people fall for it. You've got to hand it to him really. 

Yes of course. This is all about opinions. The rate of decline has been alarming, I would agree. I would also be critical of some of his signings and in hindsight, his decision to remain loyal to that league 1 team.

BUT I disagree with the idea that people are swallowing his narrative, essentially being duped by him. Everyone I have spoken to has unanimously confirmed his decent nature and integrity. He’s also widely regarded as a very good coach as is Venus. Moreover, people are very quick to forget the positive impact that Tony has had on our club following Coyle, Lambert, Kean etc. 

For me there is one massive decision which is haunting him now and that was to stick with the lads he had. It shaped his summer business last year when we bought almost entirely for the future. With hindsight, had the reported £10m been spent on maybe three championship class players (CB, CM, CF) I do not think we would’ve had the decline we’ve seen...but hindsight is a fine thing.

Ive seen a lot of people on here dismissing the notion that he’ll make changes this summer. I understand that because history tells us that Tony hasn’t done that at Rovers. But, I do not see what he has to gain by staying loyal to them this summer. He’s been loyal and the players have been found out. He’s admitted that publicly. So to mindlessly plough on then he’s risking his own job and reputation for players who he owes absolutely nothing to. To stick with the same team and start next season would be managerial suicide.

For all of the above, he has my backing this summer to rectify the problems he himself has publicly highlighted. I don’t think we’re a million miles away from a team that could compete at the top end of the table. Most games we have been well in only to be let down by soft defending or a lack of cutting edge. Those games (like the last four 1-0 defeats at home) are won or lost in those moments. With the right quality at both ends you often win those games. Added to that another year of development in the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Armstrong and Brereton etc, I just want some consistency.

Nothing has changed for me. He’s been loyal to the team who got us promoted. This seasons target was to get to safety as quickly as possible and then see how far we can go. The back end of the season has been disappointing but I fully expected us to finish between 10th - 15th before the season started and we’ll finish there or thereabouts.

For half of the season his decision was very much vindicated. The second half of the season has shown to Tony and the world that In order to consolidate and move forwards we need to address that our defenders are not tough enough, our midfielders not creative enough and our forwards not clinical enough. 

He HAS to be prepared to upset and ultimately replace the Mulgrews, Bennets, Graham’s, Smallwoods and even Dacks of this group. So he has the summer to bring in first team regulars and if not then he is not the man for the job.

The Stoke game basically encapsulated our current position in 90 mins. The team worked hard and had long periods of possession. But ultimately we were let down by an inability to defend properly at one end and a lack of quality in the final third where we are not clinical enough.

The summer is key. Mowbray deserves the summer to get this right. Do or die..

TM was questioned yesterday by Rich Sharpe about positions he’s looking to fill and he confirmed priority as Cb’s (Plural) and a front line striker to challenge DG.

He wouldn’t rule out a GK, fullbacks and a Cm either. My feeling is that these positions will look to be filled based on what’s available, who leaves and what’s left in the budget after they’ve filled those priority positions.

Just now, JacknOry said:

Perhaps Rodwell would work better in that "mobile" holding role. Then have the hardworking energy of a Travis/Reed next to Dack in the middle. AA and Rothwell on the wings and DG/BB up front. 

                   Rodwell

            Dack       Reed/Travis

Armstrong                    Rothwell

                 Graham/Brereton

I’d go with that. Can see Rodwell in that role with Evans as back up? But we’d need a good number 8 buying to compliment Travis, Davenport (who he said earlier this week would be better in a three) and Bennett (who I think could play that high energy role. Reed on a permenant might work?

The priority for me is still at CB and CF. Ready to step straight into the first 11.

But I don’t see how Dack fits into a 433.

Front three will consist of Rothwell, Breo, Graham, Chapman and Armstrong surely? Maybe Nuttall.

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

He's certainly floating the idea that Dack is dispensable if Mogga goes to a new formation.

4-3-3 is all the rage at the moment cos Lpool play it... and England. Its like when everyone started playing 4-2-3-1 when Jose rocked up in England.

 

I don’t see how Dack could ever be seen as an 8. So maybe the plan is to sell and boost this summers kitty?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/

Anyone else thinking we’ve just accepted a bid for Dack?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/

Anyone else thinking we’ve probably just accepted a bid for Dack? ?

* wrong  thread

22 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

I think if you went to any clubs forums after picking up 4 points from 30 - they would have a large section of posters that were far from feeling positive about the situation. 

Feeling far from positive and calling for the head of the manager are two different things though. I’m feeling pretty far from positive. But I believe that after bringing  a positive, honest and hardworking mentality to my club. Gaining promotion and doing fantastically well for half this season, I can forgive Tony the last few weeks as long as he puts it right in the summer. 

26 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Which is exactly what I was pointing out.

My apologies ??

2 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Surely after the first 20 games you can tell if players aren't of the appropriate standard. He continued to pick those when he has a chance not to pick them. So he obviously isn't learning. 

 

After the first 20 games we were on course for the playoffs mate. So what’s your point?

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

So far it has been 2 x Go for every 1 x Stay.

From a statistical point of view we are good to extrapolate our 100 or so voters up to 10,000 with about 12% error margin at 95% confidence.

That said, it is a niche within a niche and the former official site would likely have given the opposite outturn.

It’s just interesting to get a feel for the mood of the sight. I actually thought it would have been a lot closer.

I can see what you mean but I don’t think this site represents all Rovers fans. I enjoy some of the topics on here but like it or loathe it this place has never been known for its upbeat positivity! 

I think I recall several posters peddling negative rhetoric on here right after we were promoted! Ha ha

Im genuinely not spoiling for a fight and I’ve learned to embrace it but bloody hell we can’t half moan! ??

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He has flirted with the idea but what makes you sure that this is the plan.

With Rodwell on the bench on Saturday, if that is the plan, it shows how forward thinking he is that he didnt play it on Saturday. Surely it would have made sense to play the formation he supposedly intends on playing going forward whenever current personnel allows, It would have allowed Bell and Nyambe to assimilate and stake a claim for the wing back roles, and perhaps have allowed the likes of Dack and Rothwell to start to gel together in a tweaked attack.

I dont agree with going back to a formation that has posed more questions than answers in the past, but if that is the plan, I would have welcomed 8 trial runs starting at Villa Park as a sign of our manager thinking and planning ahead. But no, in went Bennett and Conway, Armstrong back in for Rothwell, back to the status quo.

And that would beg the further question, why sign Chapman?

I just get the feeling that’s the formation he’d play if he had the players. He’s talked a few times about Sheff Utd. You can play wide forwards if you play 343. 

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

The problem is that with each passing game he misses the opportunity to put it right. He’s played an 11 of players from last season at the weekend. He’s shoehorned Bennett into a new position and dropped rothwell who was our best player from the previous game. He’s wasting opportunity’s to turn it around. It’s not fully about our dreadful form, if Tony plays the young players or flair players and drops the untouchables until the end of the season and tried to evolve the team then I’d be happy whatever the results. 

I’ll be honest the Rothwell thing is just bizarre. I think he’s a fantastic player and impacts the game every time he plays. Can’t get my head around why he doesn’t start.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Firstly, when the payments are made is irrelevant, and purely speculative, point is we have committed that level of money, a very healthy budget to at least somewhat improve the first team.

I don't see how his summer recruitment can be defended. We are within a process whereby Mowbray has repeatedly stated that the aim is to challenge for promotion. Following promotion, there is plenty of scope to improve a side, you are far from the point of development at a team that you can put all of your eggs into signing players seen as development players who in turn havent even provided serious competition, when its neglecting areas of the team that are not good enough for a progressive Championship side. 

You look at the individuals he has brought in, Reed is a successful albeit temporary signing, the Palmer situation on the flip side was handled poorly and has to be deemed as a failure. The Rodwell situation sums up how much of a priority he sees the defence as, reported interest in Bauer but his plan B was a midfielder who may well have proved a bargain in his natural position instead used unsuccessfully as a sticking plaster in our flimsy defence. Davenport may or may not exist and he has signed 2 attacking players in Rothwell and now Chapman who ultimately he has absolutely no trust in, and are quite clearly the polar opposite of what is in the Tony Mowbray manual of being a wide man. And the main bit, we only really have Graham as a central striker, to sign someone for 7m (with over 50 Championship appearances) who hasnt been able to put any pressure at all on an impressive but veteran striker is indefensible.

I don't see him moving away from his set way of playing Armstrong one side and Bennett/Conway/Reed while still here on the other, he mentioned that even today and seems insistent on sticking with his favourites even though its quite clearly failing him at the moment. In general, I suspect that it is incredibly naive to expect him to ditch all of his favourites in a summer overhaul. He is far too stubborn and loyal to players who this season have ultimately let him down (quality not effort) numerous times.

Also, he managed to combine conservatism (picking wide men for perceived and debatable defensive abilities) and a horrendous defensive record in incredible fashion.

And if he cannot do that then he will fall on his own sword. He knows what he needs to do. 

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Completely an utterly disagree.

Tony should have seen by January they weren't of the quality and made use of the market to make the changes. Instead he continued to pick the awful players and we went downhill. 

We were completely found out tactically. Mowbray doesn't know his best team still.

Watch Brentford away and it's all far too obvious why he shouldn't be manager.

I respect that you disagree. But I think it’s odd to suggest he ‘carried on’ picking awful players when those exact players were the ones who’d got us to within touching distance of the playoffs. Had he changed the side and the results gone down hill he would be being castigated for fixing something that was not broken. You make decisions and sometimes you get them right, other times you get them wrong.

Q - Had he started the season poorly and picked up after the first 10 games to come roaring back in the second half of the season do you think there’d be the same clamour for his head? Football is fickle and fans forget easily. 

Iv given my opinion. I respect yours. Agree to disagree?

1 hour ago, Mellor Rover said:

Need to sign 3 centre halves in summer then, not 1.

Need 2 to partner Darragh and 1 to challenge them.

Though I suspect they’ll sign two and promote one of the young lads? 

1 hour ago, Mellor Rover said:

Need to sign 3 centre halves in summer then, not 1.

Need 2 to partner Darragh and 1 to challenge them.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Absolutely, re the bit in bold. That’s what makes it all the more ridiculous that we didn’t strengthen in January, not to mention sending loads of defenders out on loan, whilst relying on players with chequered injury records. 

We play loads of defensive minded players, but we still concede loads of goals. 

How many late goals have we shipped? How many times after we equalise have we conceded?

Why have these issues not been addressed? Despite our manager and assistant formerly being defenders themselves?

He needs to improve very quickly and I’m concerned that he won’t be able to.

I really hope he can as I like the bloke, but he needs to get a wriggle on.

 

They’re all the same players who started the season so well and were a couple of points from the playoffs in Jan. Having said that, even in those early months we had conceded late goals. Though I think the consensus of opinion was that the problem was ‘game management’ as oppose to poor defenders.

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

For me, the weakest and most illogical argument in regards to keeping Mowbray is that surely he deserves another summer.

The reason being is that in a summer that he had 10m to spend, he hasnt improved our team at all, so how can that be the crux of your plea to keep him?! 

I also dont really get why people are so sure that he is suddenly going to become much more ruthless. Unfortunately, he crazily rushed to sign Williams and Smallwood on longer contracts, and hes said in his quotes above that he maintains that he needs a Bennett or Conway out wide, oblivious to the fact that neither are up to it.

I think it’s fair to say that the overriding desire last summer was to keep the group together and add some young, potential to develop and hopefully break into that team. £10m isn’t a huge amount of investment in that league and I don’t think the actual payments so far will be even half that. 

My point is that having deployed that method, it worked for half the season and has failed since that point. But I genuinely believe that he has to be given the opportunity to do the right thing and put this right this summer by buying players ready to step over his favourites in order to move us forwards. If he can’t or won’t id be content to see him moved on.

There’s nothing weak or illogical in that argument. That was then, this is now. Had we still been in contention for the playoffs then he would’ve been fully justified in his decision.

He deserves THAT chance imo. 

Just now, Stuart said:

When is he going to start? Because we are on a downward slide - relegation form - and he is still picking the same L1 team!

I understand your worries. But the team was performing perfectly well until January. Probably exceeding expectations if anything. 2-3 months after he was likely being lauded for doing a great job, he can’t now be a crap manager?

It’s entirely fair to say that the players he trusted have proven themselves unable to sustain their early season highs. I may have done things differently but I can accept his reasons for staying loyal. That said absolutely has to abandon several of those players now in order to kick on. I for one don’t think we’re a million miles from being in the mix for the playoffs. Our form up until Jan backs this up.

But the day of reckoning is fast approaching for Tony. A make or break summer. Do the right thing and cut the apron strings and he has the chance to go down in our famous history. Refuse to do so and he’s a dead man walking.

Either way, imo he’s earned that chance.

7 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Very, very worrying that Mowbray doesn’t seem to think we need any wingers. Can see our starting XI right now for the first game of 2019/20 season and it’s Armstrong and Bennett on the wings.

I’m pretty sure we’re heading towards 3 at the back so wouldn’t need wingers.

This forum is so harsh at times. The manager has been a breath of fresh air in general. He united the fans with the club and got the club feeling good again. I can’t remember a happier atmosphere than last seasons final home game. 

As Iv said, I see this summer as being Tony’s moment as Blackburn Rovers Manager. His loyalty to the players who worked so hard to get us up last season was fully vindicated until January. But he deserves the chance to put it right in my opinion. He’s earned that surely?