Wilshere has signed for Derby anyway I think  

Apologies if it's already been said but at least we will be the best dressed team to get relegated.

I can't think of any better unless I'm biased...

A summer of nothing from Mowbray and you almost start to forget what a clown he is. Bang! Pre season kicks off like he has never been away and here we go again...

One statement after the other and it's a familiar tale, almost as if he hasn't been slaughtered enough over the summer months and in some sick way he's missed it. I try to avoid his dross but still it pops up in here and I just can't escape it.

I literally despise the man. Not again please...

I need a counsellor...

Where's the line that takes the striker to right back? It's probably the only line missing from that nonsense

15 hours ago, gumboots said:

This is misplaced optimism. If we lose Armstrong, the money will never appear. We've seen over and over that money is never recycled into the playing squad. Sell Armstrong; lose goalpower; regress from an already weak position. That's the journey we are on.

And we've seen investment with no sales so perhaps that hinders my "misplaced optimism"

21 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not sure the point you are making.  Surely if you want Mogadon out then you don't want him to be the one making the changes.  He's proved he can't buy a defender and he's losing his attacking threat by the looks of it..AA, JR, and the young lad has gone back to Liverpool.  We rely on loans for key positions in defence.

If he doesn't go the writing is on the wall.

Sorry that it's not clear but nowhere do I say I want TM making the decisions?

Unless you know something I don't he's the Manager and it shows no sign of changing despite all hope.  My point is still that the summer is in its early stages and as we see every year, the squad has time to take shape so the gloom over our current squad as I was responding to originally is premature.

Of course we would all want it to look better and set ready for the 1st day of pre season but has that ever been the case?

As you quoted, let's say we retained those released, sure we would have numbers but would be writing about a lack of quality and why did we sign a b and c who aren't up to the job.

The club has cleared the decks of players most have said aren't up to it. Some remain divided on the quality of 1 or 2 retained but the decks are clear to bring in new players through the summer. Gloom in May is just to early in my opinion. Gloom on TM I fully support...

23 hours ago, JHRover said:

The only things we can base predictions on right now are what we have and what we think we are likely to have.

Right now, with the players leaving and the strong likelihood that we will flog Armstrong, with Dack out until the end of the year and may not recover, and a poor manager still here after last season's shambles the only logical prediction I can come up with is a long hard season of struggle. 

Everything that has come out of the club (admittedly not a lot) since the end of last season points towards cost cutting and extremely limited funds (if any) to strengthen the squad. Now that might be Mowbray and the club being canny and crafty and leading people to believe funds are tight, but I think more likely is that it is true and we are skint. 

This might change, if they surprise us with some funds or rabbits out of hats in the transfer market. But I think both are unlikely to happen.

My expectation is the only hope they have for funds being made available for new players is by selling some first. And top of that list is Armstrong. I wouldn't trust that to happen. I think expecting reinvestment of substantial funds from Venkys is optimistic - see Rhodes and Gestede. The money is more likely to disappear under the banner of FFP rules and excuses about not having enough time to get replacements in so we get some loans instead.

It's the journey remember. We need TM to conduct a press release to remind us.

I'm joking of course, I know where you are coming from and feel the same dread but there is so much time where it can change. Most are on a downer because of TM, the ownership etc. and now a depleted squad but if we retained Bell, Evans, Holtby, Downing and Bennett, would anyone feel any better?

Armstrong has been rumoured for so long its almost inevitable. I personally think he will remain but if he goes its what was expected and at least there should be some money to spend. 

That leaves the loanees that we knew would return to their parent clubs and rare they return for a 2nd year so it was inevitable it would look like this for a little while.

If it still looks like this at the end of July or worse, I'm in the same place.

23 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

They've done you mate. Groundhog day is accepted and Mowbray is the main man again.

No no no. Not what I'm saying at all. I've been very clear I'm done with TM and have said so for months. Even if we signed 5 World beaters I'd still want him gone. I'm just saying the squad itself has plenty of time to take shape. Last year it came together late and most were excited to who was signed. It didn't work out as most hoped or expected which comes back to the first point and the trend in this thread, TM is not wanted.

We've not got millions to do the business early especially when lokking at the loan market, they always seem to arrive late as other clubs jigsaws fall into place. 

It's so early on in the summer, to look at a squad list now and predict the worst is madness. So much can happen over the next month or two that could make things look different.

Davenport missing from the list and I don't see Rothwell going which doesn't make the midfield look so bad. I would like to see a real match winner in there like Mowatt or Hourihane.

Personally I'd play Brereton left again and go for a proven striker with the Armstrong money assuming he does go, if not then it's a case of plugging the gaps.

I think one of the 3 young centre backs will go but I do believe Harwood Bellis will come for another stint.

I like Rothwell and as we transition on the counter he comes into his own but there's no doubt he needs to add goals and assists to his game. 

That part of his game hasn't really progressed in his time here so I agree with a lot of the comments, he doesn't appear to be coached to his needs or the ability just isn't there.

I would like to see him stay and have a year with a different coaching setup, someone like Duff who could beat his man, score goals and assist.

Wishful thinking I know...

That said, it's not just about JR. If he dazzles past 4 players and there is no runner or movement, cut passing lanes in front of him etc., he's going to lose the ball when it can be those around him as much as he, especially when teams sit in

I may have dreamt it but of I recall Sergei Yuran lobbed an onrushing Flowers for the winner in the Spartak game.

I remember a Uefa cup game against Lyon when Jacek Bak scored an absolute screamer.

Wasn't Chapman playing more centrally for Shrewsbury?

If so I wonder if he'll play centrally to fill the void Dack has left certainly for the 1st half of the season.

In my opinion, the key for Chapman is a run of games. Needs confidence and belief which comes from a starting spot not a Tonybola 

10 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Got another year left on his current deal

Yeah I know but I mean missing from the squad list unless he's still regarded as an U23

I think Johnson and Bennett is to retain some experience and know how in the team. Without them it's a pretty young midfield.

Of course that know how could be brought in.

If TM sees Bennett as a right back I would assume they are expect at least one of Nyambe or JRC to be sold and thus the cover is there.

Is it just me or was Magloire missing from the list?

Looks like at least 1 centre back, a left back, another Midfielder, a winger and a goal machine. Based on the list all will need to be starting 11 standard. Gulp....

I don't want Lampard at Blackburn as its just not the appointment the club needs right now but I wouldn't say he was awful. 

His first management gig at Derby wasn't a disaster. Cocu came in a more experienced manager with a better reputation and did worse. Should Derby have made the playoffs yes but I don't think Frank was awful for his first job in management.

His first season with Chelsea under embargo blooding youth can only be seen as a success under the circumstances. 

This season he was unbeaten in the champions league group stages which not many awful managers could claim to have achieved.

He was always going to be under massive pressure with the squad they assembled and his decision making, defensive setup etc at times cost him but after only 2.5 years in management with this season being his first managing a super club style budget, I think its harsh to say he's awful.

Greats of the game didn't always hit the ground running from the off, even in our own lives we have to learn from our mistakes hence most Directors are at the latter end of their careers.

For me he deserves a crack somewhere but not what we need.

I've loved having Armstrong and Elliott here this year and part of the reason why I think we underachieved given that quality at that end of the pitch but I don't think either are Prem quality right now. Certainly not starting every week. 

Armstrong takes the plaudits for his goals but his chance conversion rate in this league isn't deadly as stupid as it sounds after scoring nearly 30 goals. He won't get as many chances in the Prem and better keepers, defenders etc. will make the stats even bleaker.  Benrahma ripped this league up, yet to score for West Ham and is more often than not on the bench. Armstrong has about 5 shots per goal compared to Toney and Pukki on 3. Keiffer Moore 2.5, Andre Ayew 2.7

Elliott for his age has been great and I have no doubt will get to the level required but I don't see either getting regular game time at West Ham and Liverpool respectively.

If West Ham started next season with Bowen, Armstrong and Benrahma up front, it wouldn't have too many worried in the Prem but in the Championship we would give them the trophy on day 1.

Toney on the other hand is a different type of player who I do think could do a job for a club like West Ham and would cost similar money. Not ahead of Antonio but given their likely Champions League commitments will need some other options. 

I think Armstrong will either return to Newcastle or stay put. I think Elliott will go out on loan but to another club in the Prem e.g. Norwich.

The good news for us is at least the last few weeks would have boosted his price tag after that slight drop in goals per game.

19 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

You've contradicted yourself there 

I've seen him down Ewood many a time over the years,  my eyes say he's average championship in his prime and Mulgrewesque now

I haven't contradicted myself at all.

I said I believe he WAS a good championship defender whilst you say he was only ever average at best.

I go on to say he isn't premiership quality.

I then made the point we haven't been able to judge his level NOW as he barely kicked a ball for us.

As for seeing him over the years, I have too although he hasn't played that many games against us. I don't recall him being skinned alive at Ewood or having even a mare at any time to say he was average. The Middlesbrough and Norwich teams he was part of were never rolled over by us.

Not sure what a top Championship centre back looks like for you, perhaps more goals scored? He's always been solid, showed leadership and organisation against us when I've seen him and puts in a tackle or a block when needed. On the back of a few clean sheets conceding one a couple of times and being part of a team that we beat 2-0 7 or 8 years ago I think its harsh to call him average.

I think you were one of the first to dampen the enthusiasm of his signing when it was greeted with hype. Congratulations for that forthright vision that the signing would not pan out but the hype shows most thought he had something to give which for me, comes from the reputation he had as a defender at this level.

22 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

In his prime he's an average championship centre back.  He's not in his prime as we all knew before he signed.  Therefore he is either injured or a lower championship centre back. Whichever, it's a waste of 10-15k per week.

I disagree he was average. At this level in his prime as you say, there were few better in the league and he was very much part of two promotion campaigns to the Premier league. Liverpool Middlesbrough and Norwich all must have seen that in him and at the time were not average clubs.

Is he Premier League quality no, is he top end championship we don't know as he hasn't played but I'd suspect not now. But in his prime at this level he was better than average.

Injury prone of course but that doesn't mean he's a poor defender, just fragile.

I don't think many would say Ayala isn't a good defender particularly for the Championship its just he's been injured the whole time. Maybe by not going through pre season and then being thrown in to a fixture pile up but when fit, he's been a good defender at this level in his time with Norwich and Middlesbrough

Bell is also hopeless in possession. He gives the ball away 90% of the time so even if he was the world's best tackler, if he just invites pressure back on the defence, what's the point. 

Pickering will be 1st choice, Douglas will be signed if money allows for the experience and know how whilst having the delivery. Bells only chance is is if Douglas remains too costly. I'd rather Downing played back up to Pickering in that scenario!

16 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

He’s quickly changed his tune, from that article...

‘I've always been a 'glass half full' character, which in many cases has blinded me and my immaturity but I'd like to think I have the intelligence to assess a business model that's stalled in a period of stagnation and is teetering on the lubricious slope of decline.’

 

Yet he was waxing lyrical about the structure and stability of the club - in his view largely in place due to the Venky/Mowbray relationship, literally this week in the Sheffield local rag, for example -  through Mowbray there has been a bridge. He has advised Venky’s on things, where investment is needed, and they’ve been happy to take it...a structure was brought in. ”  

 

Article just read like a collection of views from here to be honest put into a single article

3 hours ago, Ulrich said:

What about Gareth Southgate?  😉

Another link to Boro lol

40 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

England youth teams be the ideal job for Mowbray 

No no no, please no. Youth teams of rival nations so he can stunt their youth and development and I may just see England win a World Cup in my lifetime 😀

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yeah, much prefer Simeon Jackson to Jordan Rhodes....🤪 only you could justify that one.  Where is Jackson now...?

Kings Lynn Town, on loan from Chelmsford...

I think Elliott will be a class player in good time with the right coaching and development.

I agree with others he has dipped but so has the team and we have mostly raved about he and Armstrong this season, it just seems so long ago.

Elliott is the only player I'm confident will create something to get us back in a game and his assists back that up.

Other message boards are also talking him up all the time so other clubs are seeing it too when they play us.

I don't think Liverpool will let him go this early on in his development but I did read today that they may be willing to allow another season with us.

Under Mowbraysaurus that would be wasted but if the change happens, I think it would suit all parties for another year.