I think there's a lot of speculation on here and that's fine as that's what it is here for but I think you need to be careful with it too and jumping to too many conclusions is quite easy.  Just look at @philipl (not having a go at all) saying that Lenihan might be out for a long time when, hopefully, he plays today.

There's also a lot of hyperbole in my opinion with too many going OTT.

I think TM isn't a bad manager, neither is he a very, very good manager.  I think it's very unlikely we will go down but unless something special really clicks we aren't going to finish top 6.  Most likely we will finish mid-table.  

Is that good enough?  It depends on your expectations. I don't think Venkys will be happy with 12th or 13th but 8th might be enough to persuade them to give him another season.

Even though we have lost the first two games I don't think we have been terrible, Charlton wasn't great and very frustrating but the Fulham performance was decent.  Obviously, another couple of losses will really pile on the pressure and TM does seem to be feeling it a little, but so far if you compare this season to Coyle's then there's a big difference.  I thought that season we were awful in the first two games versus Norwich and Wigan.

Overall I don't think TM is likely to take us up and if I knew Johnno was going to be really good I'd be happy for him to take over but I don't think TM deserves the sack just yet.

Just now, philipl said:

In all fairness, Rovers' two young centre backs are just out of picture to the right but with three Oldham players breaking towards them they are covering space rather than runners. The scorer just carried the ball unchallenged from that point striking an accurate screamer from 25 yards rather than risking taking it into the box.

We'd had 75% possession to that point and were pushing up again ploddingly when Buckley (2nd to bottom of Rovers running back) received a diagonal backwards hospital pass from Smallwood which the Oldham player in the bottom of picture intercepted and immediately played through to the guy who ran on and scored.

Yeah, it was tough on Platt and Grayson, go to the man and free up another one... TM was quite often telling Nyambe to get further forward so can't blame the full backs either, not that we ever managed to exploit the space in front of him.

Was the game on iFollow after all?

I think people are being a bit harsh on Brereton, sure he didn't have a great game but he did show a few nice touches in the first half, his run to get on DG's great through ball was good and although his first touch there wasn't great it did look like he got clipped.  He would have had a goal if there wasn't a handball on the line missed by the ref.  He does need a little luck but he wasn't hopeless.

Watching the highlights it doesn't show on the first goal if Platt had gone to the ball he would have left his man free in the middle for an easier shot though perhaps he could have done better, with TM pushing the full backs upfield we can't afford to give it away so easily in the middle (Smallwood).

Grayson didn't look super solid at the back but did put in a few very nice passes.

We didn't play DG on the left as someone else suggested, we started with a narrow 442 with Buckley on the left but we were quite fluid.

Not read all the comments.

As poor as we were this is just standard for the league cup, I’ve been coming home for July August for years and every year it’s the same pretty much.

Dack made the difference but Danny Graham was key and the only one in the first half who wasn’t a bit poor.  All the young lads made mistakes but it’s hard when generally everyone is not very good.  

Felt sorry for Richie Smallwood after he came off, he had to walk all the way around the pitch and looked really dejected.

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Actually looking forward to this any game against Oldham always has a bit of an edge for me seeing as growing up they were seen as a rival because the that lot, Bolton and North End were bobbling around in lower divisions for a decade or more.

Think this comes at a good time so i'd play the first choice defence - not that he knows what it is - but still play the same one as Saturday and let them bed in and let the shackles off the rest. Oh  and here's a novel idea play people in their natural positions and give the team some balance never mind being terrified of what Oldham will do !!!!

I remember a game similar v Shrewsbury a few years back under Bowyer where him and the side came under more scrutiny than they normally would for a game like this, tomorrow has a similar feel about it.

I'm the same, I think the first away game I went to was Oldham on a wet Friday night in the away with no roof and we lost.  There were a few Oldham fans at my school too and no one from Burnley.

If I were TM I'd be playing a fairly strong team with 2 or 3 youngsters coming in if the sports science team advise rest for a couple.  I think TM needs to think about the best tactics for the season and play them, like many I'd like us to go for it in pretty much every game.  I thought Dack was good versus Fulham but if he doesn't play then that's where I'd play Buckley not sure he's ready for centre mid yet.  JRC looks good going forward but I'm not sure he's ready to play right back in the Championship defensively but maybe right midfield would suit him.  To be honest I haven't seen that much of the youngsters.

I certainly wouldn't make too many changes as I do think we would benefit from a good, confidence boosting victory.  Plus I only have this and the Boro game to see us win before heading back to the Far East, my unlucky girlfriend who hasn't seen us win a competitive game yet (she's been coming with me every summer for a good few years now) won't be there so there's every chance.

Gutting to lose. Don’t want to say too much right now but I do t think we were too bad today.  Cairney scores a cracker, though he had too much space and they scored late in as we pushed forward.  We started pretty well, pressing high and making a few chances and we were unlucky to go in behind at half time.  There was a lot of energy and pressing from the front.  

Tosin almost got caught out a couple of times but I’m the whole I thought he and Williams did ok against a talented Fulham team.  

I don’t think the subs helped and going 442 with Brereton and Armstrong on the wings and Dack centre mid didn’t really work.  

We created quite a few half chances but lacked a bit of creativity and weren’t clinical.  Did we have a shot on target that wasn’t blocked? 

8 Bells was one in one out with a queue  the wind is really picking up by the river, some very strong gusts. 

Hopefully Tosin and Williams are ready for it.  

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Give over, atrocious pass followed by the headless chicken run ending up at LB allowing the RB space to be empty and where was the goal scored from? Yes others were at fault too but Bennett caused it.

You’re entitled to your opinion but a guy giving the ball way 80 metres from goal with Downing behind him isn’t the main culprit for me, fair enough if you think he is.

I doubt he’d say much about the first seeing as Bennett was by the opposition penalty area and perhaps he himself should have done better with the cross.  The second was absolutely atrocious though.  I’d much prefer Nyambe at right back if he’s fit though.

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

I wonder what Lenihan's opinion was on those 2 passes by Bennett, perhaps he told Mowbray

Just now, sharpysharps86 said:

Wonder if Lenihan is injured or there is unrest after Mulgrew being allowed to go and no replacement brought in. 

Are we about to witness it all massively unravelling for TM? 

Also,  I guess Bennett is captain today then.... 

I've got no idea what happened but Mulgrew was really poor last week, that misdirected header under no pressure in the first half that led to the Taylor chance was shocking.  The other players must see that, I doubt Lenihan appreciated it so even if he was your best mate it'd be hard to defend him unless TM was really nasty which is hard to imagine.

12 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Keith Andrews was a far, far superior player to Bennett!

I don't think Keith was as bad as some make out but I strongly disagree that he was FAR FAR superior.

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

I think it's really sad the way people talk talking about Keith Andrews.  He would probably have made a very good captain. etc etc etc. Silly Yes?

You cant have a non-footballer as Captain no matter how much he runs around, does top draw fist pumps or has high ratings on social media. The real footballers, those who can actually play a bit will ignore him at best.

Bennett isn't the most skillful player but he's not a non-footballer.  At right mid he has been decent, perhaps not always the most creative but he has set the tempo of the side and pushed everyone else on to more.  I always believed if he'd played more in the first half of the relegation season we wouldn't have gone down.  I know that he's not brilliant but played in midfield he is not that bad either.

The captain of one of my old sides wasn't anywhere near the most talented in the side but he was all energy and bite and inspired those around him to play much better and we were poorer without him.

That said I wouldn't have Bennett in my current 11 I just don't think he's shit and could be cut a little slack.

16 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

My selection

                                 Walton

Nyambe    Lenihan     Tosin     Cunningham

                   Johnson  Travis

Armstring                Dack         Rothwell     

                     Gallagher 

 

That would be my team, though I'd be equally happy with Graham just depends on the tactics.  Personally, I'd want us to go at them from the off and I think Gallagher pressed very well on occasions last week.

Fulham lost last week and although they made some good signings they lost last week too and I'm hoping Scott Parker is poor for them.

I think if they are played right and on form, we have some very good players there, on their day Dack and Rothwell can take and Championship team apart whilst Johnson and Travis could be top class in the middle.  Cunningham must play as Bell isn't a very good defender and it at least seems TM has seen this going off his comments.  If Tosin is as good as Pep makes out then with him and Nyambe we can push up and condense the play.  Mitrovic was excellent for them in the Championship last time but he isn't quick at all so best way to stop him is to play on the front foot and not allow them lots of possession.

It is gonna be a tough game no doubt, I came down to London on Thursday and currently, the weather isn't too bad, not that windy at all yet.

11 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Good point.

Anyone but Bennett, Mowbray-Bennett, Bennett-Mowbray, Bell or Williams.

I know I'll have missed loads.

I think it's really sad the way people are talking about Bennett.  He would probably make a very good captain.  He is passionate, he gives everything and would lead by example.  I think it's a real shame that being played all over the place has seen him put in some poor performances and now he's being talked about like he's Keith Andrews or someone.

I do understand that most don't want to see him start, especially at right-back, and I would agree but he does deserve a little more appreciation of his effort and energy.

Without knowing all the lads I'd go for Lenihan if he's got TM's confidence and is gonna be first choice CB but I can see the arguments for an older head like Johnson and would be happy with him too.

If true Mulgrew is signing then it must have been a very recent development as he was announced as a charity ambassador for the season a couple of weeks ago and last week was talking about mentoring younger players this season.

Cunningham and Hanley would be marvelous.

I’d be delighted with Cunningham, at this stage left back is priority one.  I have high expectations of Tosin and TM and the player himself have both indicated he is going to start.  I think Williams is a decent Centre back and Mulgrew is now 4th choice.  So makes me think I’d be happier with Bell out of the team.  

Surprised at the reaction to Mowbray’s Magloire comment.  If I were Tyler I wouldn’t be at all offended, he didn’t say anything bad at all.

His Rays comments on the other hand were much worse.  

I know youngsters these days are supposed to be far more sensitive but I didn’t expect it from some of the older gents on here.

Theres plenty of other TM quotes to be annoyed about.

I think TM definitely regrets his defenders are coming talk.

This is from the end of June

"I did talk about the defenders towards the end of the season and when you look back we did concede too many goals.

“But there are reasons for that but I’m not sitting here worrying about that any more than other positions. The emotion of it all came across but what I will say that we’re looking to strengthen all areas of the team.”

What reasons?  

I think he got emotional but spoke the truth about what he was thinking but it probably upset a few (which was possibly a good thing).

3 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

What you are forgetting DE is that we haven't had a defence since Big Sam. The post by @Miller11 shown that the level of investment in our defence under Venkys has been appalling from every single manager, not just Mowbray.

In my eyes this is part of a bigger problem. I genuinely don't believe that TM is setting out to go back on his word, I just don't think there's the scope to spend larger sums of money on players who defend. It goes against our transfer history since the dreaded takeover. Money is available for young, attacking players and the defence is put together as cheaply and quietly as it can be.

It was our undoing during Bowyers years and our undoing during the relegation season too. Our defence has been shit since the Samba days.

5

I would say that Hanley and Duffy while not perfect were pretty decent and the reason we never really challenged for promotion during the Bowyer years were a week midfield with Williamson and Lowe being pretty rubbish and lack of tactics.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Really though, what is the point in posting that list? Every single player on it is outside our wage structure from what I can tell. Some comically outside our budget. 

Really?  

1.  I don't think all of these players would be out of our budget, really take a look.

2.  Out of contract players will only get what someone will pay for them e.g. Martin Olsson may well have been on 40K a week in the PL but he's unlikely to get another PL team and won't be getting anywhere near that for his next contract especially considering he's coming back from a serious injury, and even if I'm wrong on that Johan Larsson just got released by Guingamp, I wasn't under the impression that teams that got relegated from Ligue 1 paid that much in wages.

1 hour ago, Harry The Bass said:

I think Nyambe has stalled in the previous two seasons to some extent in key areas, namely failed to cut individual errors out of his game and not build on technical skills like crossing and overlapping. I agree, Bennett has similar percentage of mistakes per appearances but I think its not as simple as a choice because they both have pro’s/con’s for that position.

I think Nyambe is now seen more as a wide central option because he has the more defensive fundamentals and physical stuff.

I know none of this stacks up with the simple “plays his favourites” stuff, but I only go off what I see or have seen. For example, I agree on Bell - he’s always looked to be seconds off the play, even if he has decent technical ability. My priority after replacing Raya and bringing in Tosin, would also be a new FB. 

I think Nyam be still has a lot to learn but I think he's better than Bennett and I think TM didn't really help him much last season.  The more he plays the more experience he gets he will improve and I think dropping him, even not in the squad sometimes, has stalled him a bit more than the other way around.  I also think it's unfair on Bennett as although he has had a couple of good games at RB and some ok ones he's also had quite a few poor ones now and moving him around too much has a negative effect on not only fans perception of him but also his own confidence and comfort in his position.

I think Tosin and Lenihan could be a real dominating force at the back personally.

 

I really hope you are right with this and I think that whilst we are being pretty optimistic there is a good chance it will be true.  I think Pep obviously rates him and sees him as a potential City first team player, he's not seen as one of the Chelsea loan money makers but a genuine prospect.  He's had a year at this level to get used to it and now could push on and be as good for us as Tuanzebe was for Derby.

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think there could be something more from a numbers viewpoint. Mowbray always goes on about "being fair to players". If another club doesn't want Mulgrew for example, he probably looks at it and thinks that he can't really have 5 Cbs and never play some players. Obviously this approach is bad and a total cop out 

The thing is we have a few players that I don't think there would be much interest in that we could really do with moving on.  

To be honest, who knows, our recruitment is unbalanced to put it very mildly. 

I think that’s true and is possibly really hampering us, especially in defense.  In LT article he mentions again about not pushing players out.  He’s just wrong here and it could be costing us and it’s not always in the players best interest.  Impossible to know for sure but Mulgrew I think is a big barrier to getting in another top of the championship Centre back 

5 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

YET Merc they still fund the club ? Lets be real about the actual money they do put into BRFC. Its a drop in the ocean to what they actually earn as an overall business worldwide with many linked companies etc. Its a tax write off at worst. If the pot ever runs dry then venkys will have gone bust worldwide which on the fact of it is never going to happen as they have total dominance in poultry/animal vaccine/medicines as well as their other ventures. 

As for TM some are way ahead of themselves. We have lost 1 game and the critics are out in force. If we go onto win a number of games, Brereton and Gally score a few, Dack and Downing are the supply line then a few on here will eat their words. Me? I see it happening and whilst I am not overly concerned about any chances of Rovers being in a relegation scrap I really do think we are capable of a top 6 finish. It will take a few weeks to get into stride but I am certain we have much better players than some on here think we have.

I don't know a lot about finance but surely taking anything for granted in regards to Venkys is not smart.  

It may be that there is some financial trickery that means they can write off some of the money (£170+ million is a lot to write off) but I don't think they are happy losing money if they were why bring in two accounting firms to go over all the books?  

We might be better in midfield and attack but we are weak in defense, last season showed it and the Charlton game just confirmed it and even if Tosin is as good as Pep makes out Lenihan might get injured and Bell will still be poor.  

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Tom Lawrence double for Derby. Lots of Rovers fans were glad to see the back of him. 

1 hour ago, AAK said:

Think that was mainly down to the sitter he missed against burnley. He was never really played properly under bowyer, didnt get a real run of games.

He missed quite a few good chances if I remember correctly, he is talented but has always been inconsistent, maybe he's gonna push on this year.

3 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

Another day passes by and nothing happening ...I am beginning to think Mowbray thought Raya was the problem , and the events of Saturday have surprised him ( I am serious )and he is left with no real answers and a ticking clock !!

The city boy was signed as a bit of back up , replacement for the departed Downing !

It is a ludicrous situation !!!!

 

 

Tosin hasn't been signed as a bit of backup or Downing's replacement.  If you have read what the lad himself and TM have said it's pretty clear he is going to be first choice.

With Tosin and Lenihan at the club and both expecting to play the majority of games I don't think we will sign a "first choice" centre back but we might go for someone who is happy to fight for a place, perhaps one of the foreign players who have been mentioned.   I would be delighted if we did but I think the hold up with the City loan might have been connected to assurances that Tosin would be played regularly in his preferred position. 

I do hope we sign a good left back though (as unless Hart has improved a lot we don't have one) and I do think there is some money available to be spent.

Just now, 1864roverite said:

The problem with Bennett was that he lost the ball then went chasing it like a mad dog across the park. He got himself so far out of position that when the cross came in there was a free Charlton player just waiting for the tap in ! If only he had thought about just getting back into position - that is a simple bit of footballing know how!

 

Goal 2 came about because of Rothwell failing to clear the ball properly, I am sure it was him. Instead of whacking it down the park he fluffed it allowing Charlton to come straight back on the attack. Free cross free header and then a piece of improvisation by the Charlton number 9 who gets the slightest touch and its in off the post !

 

I am not sure that anyone mentioned the two fluffed 8yard chances Rovers missed ! Basic sitters that ultimately cost us because if they had gone in we would have seen a cricket score and we wouldn't have seen all the moaning going on.

4-3-3 doesn't work for us at all. It has to be 3-5-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 for Dack to be effective.

This of course only my opinion

I saw it at the game and I have watched it back on ifollow, he didn't go back to his position because Downing was running with Purrington and if he hadn't stopped running with him he would have been there to stop him scoring.

Rothwell did fluff his clearance but there are several other people just as culpable for that goal.

You're right about the two sitters, best chances of the game, Gallagher and Downing the culprits.