This is without doubt the worst news.

Both deals off.

A full explanation needs to be provided asap, though I doubt none can until the appeal process is exhausted.

So depressing.

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Blimey, it might not be the Club's fault that it isn't possible to start negotiations until a relatively late stage in any given case, but if they do make the decision to start those negotiations, they know the rules and that it is still incumbent on them to get the deal done in time with all the correct paperwork accompanying it.

Absolutely.  Sounds like this Sylvestor fella might have some awkward questions to answer.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No, you hang on, Im not going to post again on this, but you've completely changed the goalposts with your post above.

In your original post , you correctly pointed out how imperative it was to serve Court proceedings  in the manner prescribed by  regulations, then, essentially said (I'm paraphrasing slightly) that it looked as though an employee at the Club might have committed an administrative error therefore it didn't appear the Club were at fault.

When I pointed out that that was absolute nonsense you grudgingly agreed with me and admitted the Club were vicariously liable.

If someone at your firm cocked up the service of Court proceedings with the result a Client's claim was struck out you wouldn't dream of trying to make out it wasn't your firm's fault so I don't know why you're trying to make out it's not Rovers fault in this instance.

As for leaving dealings until the last minute, we can debate until the cows come home whether that's a desirable thing or not but no matter how late negotiations take place we know the regulations and the time deals have to be done by and should know exactly  what paperwork has to be filed for each different type of deal so failure to comply with that is either negligent or a deliberate omission.

Why on earth would I say that an error by a club employee is not the fault of the club on a vicarious basis?? That's not a legal concept, it's common sense. 

My point, which you can't seem to grasp, was that the last-minute nature of the deal was not the club's fault. There's been no shifting goalposts on my part. I really can't see what your difficulty is in accepting that when it's there in black and white on my post, other than it being a reluctance to accept that you misunderstood my post and refusal to accept that you went in at the deep end unnecessarily. 

Anyway, night, let's hope we get the news we want in a few hours time and not the news we fear.

10 minutes ago, rigger said:

Most good lawyers that I have known, look at things from the viewpoint of whoever is paying them.

They're not good lawyers, they're mercenaries.

Good lawyers see a dispute, understand all sides of it, and advise their clients on the merits of their particular viewpoint accordingly within the context of the law applicable to the dispute so that the client can give informed instructions. 

12 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Probably cause the whole administration have been absolutely shite on the whole for, oh, I don’t know, about 12 years?

True, but GB hasn't and nor has JDT, yet according to some they're useless, don't know their arses from their elbows & should be summarily dismissed. 

I don't think Rovers want to be going back to court or a tribunal against a manager do they, didn't work out too well last time.

49 minutes ago, 47er said:

Never is with some on here.

And it always is for others.

I'm not a blind defender of the club, as my initial post made clear. I always try to look at things objectively, from all angles, just like any good lawyer should.

1 hour ago, garnersfags said:

I think that is a little unfair, as you chose to aggravate an already emotionally disappointing situation by saying 'which in itself does not sound like it was Rovers fault', regardless of whether that's what you meant.

You may claim it was clumsy on your part, but you had prefaced it by saying you are a lawyer.

No element of this season-ending debacle was 'not Rovers' fault'. 

I rest my case 😉

Hang on, the whole tenor of my post was that if Rovers have dropped a bollock, then legally they're in a very tight spot.  I was in essence agreeing with Rev but, in his insatiable desire to blame the club for everything & explicitly stating it was a deliberate act of sabotage to drop said bollock (by who, goodness only knows), he misread my caveat that the fact that O'Brien's deal was last minute was not the club's fault.

And it wasn't. Put it another way, could a deal for O'Brien have been done earlier in the window? No it couldn't; he only became available to us once WBA and Sheff Utd thrown their hands in at what, 3pm yesterday.

Then Rev chose to antagonize by making it personal in questioning my ability as a lawyer to understand the situation correctly, despite me having stated that in my legal opinion we were in a tough spot!!!

The mind boggles.

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

What a load of nonsense. And you're a lawyer?

IF a Rovers employee made an admin error how is it not the Club's fault the situation arose? Forest's? The EFL?

Read the post properly before making knee jerk reactions please.

I said it looks like it is an error on a Rovers employee's part (therefore if so Rovers fault vicariously - we agree) but the fact that it was a last minute deal wasn't the club's fault, it was down to the player's late availability & him dithering on whether he had other options.

The only nonsense being spouted in this is you stating the situation is deliberate.

27 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Or deliberate.

Give over.

Been busy all day, have read Nixon's saga and not much else.

Taking that as correct, this is really borderline & depends how legally-minded the EFL are. As a lawyer myself I know that service of all the right documents at the right time in the right method is imperative. Minor errors or omissions are, more often than not, fatal.

Eg if a document (or documents) are not served in a prescribed way, service will be deemed ineffective even if the oppo admits they were received in time but in a non-prescribed manner. Or if a document is unsigned, or if a key document is missing, good luck arguing it in a relief from sanctions application.

Sorry if that worries folk more....

FWIW, it sounds as though an admin error was made by a Rovers employee brought about as a consequence of the last minute nature of the deal, which in itself does not sound like it was Rovers fault. This is why last minute deals are a risk, but doesn't mean they should be avoided. O'Brien was clearly worth trying for, hence why we agreed to all demands, and it wasn't the club's fault that that situation arose.

Just now, Miller11 said:

This reminds me of when I walked in to Blues bar on the first of September and Jordan Slew was sat there with his agent having breakfast.

”So you’ve signed then Jordan?”

”Fingers crossed. Hope the paperwork went through in time.”

Well I hope that's not an omen!!

You've got to admit this is all rather exciting. Never thought I'd ever be staying up waiting for a Rich Sharpe exclusive!!

Oh no, this site is starting to glitch under the pressure!

Tense? Nervous? Headache??

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I was hoping the match might provide a distraction…. but I suspect it will only further highlight the glaring areas for improvement in the squad. Gallagher nailed on to have an absolute nightmare and Morton with another assist for the opposition.

Neither are starting, but other than that top marks!!

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I would've quoted you if it was directed at you.

However yours is just one of a number iv'e seen along similar lines though mostly as usual facebook and twitter.  The accepting where we are, what we have etc i get that and have no problem with it. The ones who've bought the project talk on top of the journey talk to the extremes iv'e seen as in this season doesn't matter type stuff just boils my blood.

You'd have to be beamed down from Mars if all of a sudden we think this is just the start of a genuine solid ambitious plan to build a Prem team in a year or two.

It has every hallmark of down scaling again whilst leaving enough in place to tread water on a lower wage low spend model. To pass up the opportunities we have by having zero immediate ambition is plain crazy to the point of utter stupidity (again). You don't need millions to be ambitious you just need a bit more leeway and some genuine drive for it. We saw that this time last season and exactly the things i mentioned were missing. The whole idea of change was to try and find those things with a different attitude and voice in the building.

Seems not.

Fair enough, others haven't quoted in the past when they should have & we've gone down rabbit holes as a result!

I've just posted a reply to Mercer above which adds more to what I feel. I get the frustration, but surely the journey talk has to be discounted as that's from the previous management team. I can't be bothered going back to the GB and JDT threads but seem to remember most were happy to accept this season as being a transitional one. It can still be successful AND transitional, and clearly GB has tried within the financial constraints he's under but we cannot compete with parachute payments, the lure of Italy, or players changing their minds and deciding to take their chances at forcing their way into a prem team.

10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Mere words for the gullible, naive and happy clappers.

Wise words from someone who thinks the club is a shambles from top to bottom yet week in week out predicts that we should beat practically every opponent we face in pre match threads.

It's gullible and naive to think "we're Blackburn Rovers, 6 time FA Cup winners, 3 times English Champs, League Cup winners". The last of those was 20 years ago & as much as we have fond memories of the 1990s & 2000s, it means nothing now to young English players, their agents or to potential foreign talent. Thanks to Venkys we're irrelevant to most youngsters nowadays and don't have the reputational or financial pulling power we once did.

Supporting a different way of doing things to what hasn't worked in a decade isn't happy clapping, it's being realistic. That doesn't have to mean giving up on playoff hopes, but that's too nuanced for some to grasp I guess.

42 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I don't disagree about the Academy but let's not forget that had the STC sale gone through and moved to the Academy site there would have been a strong likelihood that the Academy would have been downgraded. There wasn't a long term strategy behind that.

But wasn't it Mowbray, Venus & Waggot who were the driving forces behind that? 

That's in the past, before any of us had heard of Greg Broughton or JDT in the context of a young manager. Since they arrived the focus has been very much on longer term stability, regeneration & sustainability. That was something that in the summer most of us craved at a time when relegation was considered more likely than promotion.

Rebuilding this club is analogous to building a team. Starting from the back with a solid defensive platform is the equivalent of building the club from the academy upwards, the rest then follows over a period of time.

I want success as much as you, but not at the cost of throwing longer term sustainability under the bus. I think there's room for both.

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I know what the problem is and hopefully everyone else does too but Tomasson and Broughton are complicit by talking about a three Summer transfer window project. That is where my objection is. This is football and there are more variables than any other business making it extremely difficult to make and plans. Unless you are a mega rich Premier League club then I believe it's too difficult to plan for the next few months never mind years.

But Venkys have spent a decade decimating us & have undone everything Jack built, besides the academy. That being the case, and with the academy being a long term project by definition, then any return to growth has to have that as it's bedrock & therefore must be central to the longer term.

The club has to balance short term potential for promotion against long term regeneration, especially as an unfashionable club in a poor economic area with new sustainability rules coming in and with a hardcore fanbase of 8 or 9 thousand fans, half of whom wonder why they bother as it is. Yes show ambition this season & aim to go up, but don't risk the longer overall strategy of growing with firm foundations, which is what was written on the tin when GB& JDT arrived in the summer.

 Here's hoping we can get some good deals over the line today. 👍

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

When Steve Cooper took over bottom of the table Forest he set a target of taking each game as it comes and winning it to stay up. They went on a run, signed some decent players in the January window and got promoted. There was no plan for this. Once there the planning started for the Premier League and so far it's working. No mention of plans or projects, it's about the here and now. The rest can take care of itself. It's fantasy in my view to talk about three Summer windows as part of the timescale in the project.

Yes true. But Forest were massively underperforming before he took over, which I don't think anyone can say we are given the shambles we were on the summer and the position we're now.

Plus he did that using the loan market very heavily (which is frowned upon by many on here but is the reality of modern football) and, most importantly, under an owner that actually cares for the club & wanted success.

Spot the difference and let's not make GB & JDT scapegoats for the real problem.

19 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So the vibe is it's ok not to strengthen now and fall away again because it isn't quite our time the short term plans don't include play offs or promotion ?

What planet do some of our fans live on ?   Seriously come on how many pups do you need to be sold before any pennies drop ?

I'm assuming this is directed at me as it follows my post?

If so, that's not what I said in response to Arbitro's post is it?  Did I say anything about it being a good thing not strengthening now?

41 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Couldn't disagree more with this either. Arbitro is quite right.

So the club should have a plan that looks no further than May which, by your own admission in a post above, could not guarantee promotion?

Ok, each to their own.

Arbitro is part-right.

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

It all back of a fag packet stuff, management on the hoof. Projects and plans? There is no plan that anybody with any sense can see. The only plan should be promotion this season and not looking beyond that. But we are hearing that the playoffs are not really part of the project yet. They insult our intelligence and yet expect us to keep turning up, paying our money and put trust in the process.

Why on earth do we bother.

I get the general sentiment but I can't agree with this in bold. We need short, medium & long term plans, that's why a DoF is here. They're all as important as each other but the medium & long term plans need to be fixed with defined goals at various stages.

The short term plan needs to dovetail with those, whilst being flexible enough to take advantage of promising situations, or indeed to mitigate threatening ones. That's where the club fell down last January and seems to be doing so again.

And the common denominator there is not GB or JDT.