8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There seems to be a growing trend of our fans thriving in making the general fanbase seem to be an angry mob. Lots of it on social media in the last week.

Not sure if I'm included in this or not, as I admit I have been a bit more vocal these last few days in calling out what I perceive to be unfair or exaggerated opinions, which I know will rub some people up the wrong way! But like those posters, I'll call it as I see it when I have time to post on here, will always be able to justify my comments with evidence, and am always happy to engage in healthy discussion that plays the ball, not the man.

I just want to clarify also that in no way do I diss the match-going support which overall is as supportive of our young team as possible (besides some of my fellow Riversiders, who are a tough crowd to please!); my only wish there is that there were more of us!

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I would put it down to us playing first team players in the U21s more and like you say, the top clubs best young players aren’t playing in U21 football. 

I think that slightly undersells us though, given we had a 17y/o CB & several 18 yr olds in the team too, with one other in the senior squad.

Not only that, from what I've read we thoroughly deserved the win, on table-topping City's own patch. No mean feat I'd say.

The run the U21s are on atm seems to have snuck under the radar a bit on here. That's 4 wins in a row isn't it, after a poor start?

Rovers 9 Manchester 1 so far this season, quality stuff! I know some will say their best youngsters are out on loan, but many of ours are injured / coming back from injury or with the first team, & aside from Edun, Buckley & Vale, the other players were all on the younger side I think.

I don't know if JDT's use of the games to give a couple of senior players some game time when rotating is a factor, but it doesn't seem to be doing them any harm. If it also pays dividends by keeping rotatable first teamers fit & sharp then it's win win for the club.

5 hours ago, Mercer said:

I remember first seeing Sherwood in a Rovers' shirt - I thought wtf, we've signed a real southern poser here!

Although Sherwood grew into his Rovers' career, it was clear early doors there was some real talent in there.

Me too, I was v surprised when he was named in the first 11 at Palace, but he never looked back from there.

But that's my point, he was persisted with & flourished. Hopefully Szmodics is given the chance to do the same as he clearly has ability given his hero status at Peterboro (much like Dack was at Gillingham).

13 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not at all, the general consensus on here before yesterday was that he's a waste of £2m...same old shyte, someone has half a decent game and they next world beater according to some on here.  Overall I've been underwhelmed by his contribution considering the fee and I prefer Dack.

I'm not sure that was the general consensus actually, though it was certainly the opinion of some. 

Most people (I would argue those less prone to exaggeration or hyperbole) were of the view that he deserved more time & opportunities to show us what he is capable of doing.

Thankfully JDT doesn't seem to be someone who gives up on a player after a couple of appearances. Tim Sherwood wouldn't have had a chance with some of you!!

57 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Come on you know the script, great v bottom of the league at home.  Memories are short....apart from his first game and yesterday he's done jack shit

You've not looked at the table much recently then... they're now 17th, but if they'd won they'd have leapfrogged us, who are now 3 points off top.

Give the bloke a chance, and some credit. He came in 7 games ago, scored on debut, then suffered a concussion on his 2nd appearance, then yesterday got a goal & a quality assist.

It's like saying, "Apart from scoring 7 goals in 13 apps, BBDs done jack shit."

14 minutes ago, garnersfags said:

I think the reason the comments have expressed such disappointment is quite how low we have sunk in terms of our inability to pass and retain the ball effectively for 90 minutes in a high number of games, therefore restricting our strikers to minimal reasonable chances. And our inability to remedy this during the game...

I said, admittedly emotionally, on Tuesday night that it was the poorest 90 minutes passing and ball retaining performance I could remember for a long time, so therefore that's what I shared on here.

It genuinely was worse than the end of last season, and no, I didn't want TM to stay, and no, I don't want JDT to go, but the fact remains it was as poor as many of us have seen, and therefore, as 'knowledgeable, dyed in th wool types', we say what we see and say that it is worrying, whilst acknowledging that it is a new era and will hopefully improve. 

Yesterday was better, but a decent opposition strike force would have been 2 or 3-1 up at half-time. 

We just say what we see. Good and bad, and 3 points off the top is a good place to be when you have lost 6 out of 13 games. 

Fair enough, I didn't see it as I can't get to away matches & don't have sky.  But even though it was a poor performance and folk are entitled to call it out, it didn't warrant the extended OTT conclusions that many came out with. We are so early into JDT's reign, with a young squad, trying new things with many players barely half a dozen games into their careers here. It's bound to be bumpy and there will be bad choices made by players & staff (as pointed out by JDT yesterday), but to me that's just natural.

Anyway, I've probably taken this as far as I should for now & don't want to come across as a kill joy! I think we can all agree that we're in a decent position from which build. Szmodics comments after yesterday re everyone buying into his thought processes (esp his use of the U21s games) is good to see, esp with the U21s being 2 up v the Mancs this season!

What would make this better is Dack being more involved. Whatever the reason, JDT can point to us being in striking distance of the top to justify his decisions  but it would be great to see Dack get more of a chance to be influential from here. A goal @ Wigan would be just the tonic for him & us.

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

The law changed a few years ago and is now referred to as the double jeopardy rule. If the challenge is cynical and prevents an obvious goalscoring opportunity it is a penalty and red card. As an example a mistimed challenge or genuine attempt to play the ball would only be a yellow card and penalty. In my view the referee got it right yesterday.

I've just seen the highlights, I think it would've been a straight red & penalty had there not been another defender level with the offender, and also Morton was going slightly away from goal. There was clearly no attempt by the offender to get the ball, but a yellow & pen was probably right.

Can only repeat what others have said re the quality passing involved in all 3 goals, they were all firm, positive, incisive periods of passing into players making good runs ahead of the player in possession, which is how i think we all want the game to be played. If we can find that type of control in possession more consistently we will be a handful for anyone.

9 hours ago, superniko said:

Cardiff was on Sky away from home midweek, so lots of posts from the sofa during the match. Rotherham was a Saturday with most inside the ground not posting…but I do agree with the general sentiment of the post. 

Fair comment, perhaps my selection of the cardiff game as a comparator was also a bit misleading, but it was the most recent & "in the mind" example. Like you say though, the point is still a valid one.

It's strange to me because clearly most folk on here are knowledgeable, dyed in the wool types who are clearly passionate about the club and therefore know & have experience of the ups & downs of the game, so to go so overboard during / following a defeat or poor performance runs contrary to that. 

Someone above said, "after a poor run of form, all of a sudden we're 3 points from top". I don't class 7W 6L as a poor run of form, and don't think we've ever been lower than 8th or 6 points off top.

I guess all I'm hoping for in future is that credit should be handed out as fairly as criticism, and players (like Szmodics), GB & JDT need to be given time to show us what we can do.

We're in the best position as a club that we've been in for a decade; let's hope we can push on, starting with a win on Tuesday to break this bizarre run of results!

Been a busy week for me so not had chance to post on here following Cardiff (which sounded v disappointing all round) & can't make today either.

Hopefully the inconsistency continues & we get 3 points, just as importantly though a decent performance would help quell a few nerves I think. Of course, what's decent for one fan is rubbish for another, so let's hope that we can look back at 5pm objectively happy with 3 points!

COYB!!

18 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

BBC preview for tonight saying Luton have won only once at home this season

I wonder who that was against? 

Relevance?

27 minutes ago, JohnD said:

It's on Amazon too

Where??

9 hours ago, Shirley Crabtree Wrestler said:

Overall I won't be surprised if we capitulate, but of course I'd be delighted if we were to grind out a better result than the six fingered brigade did at the weekend. That is our benchmark - go one better than Burnleh, wherever they've been - because if we can do that, we will finish above the knuckle dragging scunge at the end of the campaign 🙂 Simples!

I'd rather finish behind Burnley in 2nd than ahead of them in 7th.

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rob Edwards and Carlos Corbaren are 2 people who Boro are interviewing. 

 

I was being a bit tongue in cheek there really Chaddy, I just wonder if there's a bit of Mowbray that perhaps wishes he'd waited another month before taking a new job!

I'm sure he'll stay at Sunderland. 

I can't see why Rob Edwards should be high on their wishlist, not what they need. Corberan I could see happening & being a good fit, but then I thought that about Wilder.

Big appointment this for Boro, got to get it right or they'll be in bug financial doo day I think.

Wonder who they'll appoint? Would TM drop Sunderland for his hometown club?!

3 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Millwall finished below us actually, albeit only by one GD.

I stand corrected, you're right, although they could still have crept into the top 6 on the last day whereas our match was a dead rubber.

That said, my point still stands re Millwall being a tougher but to crack than some give credit for.

4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

We were dire at Luton and we were dire for most of the match yesterday so is there any reason to expect anything different at Cardiff?  The slow, laborious build-up and unnecessary passing from the back which has cost us so many goals is reminiscent of Mowbray and will lead in the end to the same results

Cardiff 3 Rovers 0

And that's being optimistic

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but to me this is just unnecessarily pessimistic. I'm not saying you won't be right as any result is possible, but going into games with this kind of attitude is crazy.

I guess some people just like to focus on & magnify the negatives, whilst overlooking the positives and therefore have a skewed view that is out of context with reality.

Another way of looking at it is that we've won 6 matches to Cardiff's 3, having lost the same number of games, & start the game in 6th compared to their 18th. But I'm not using those few cherry-picked stats to support a pessimistic 3-0 away win, because reality is far more nuanced than that.

I agree with a post above that this looks likely to be our first draw. A defeat would be disappointing but not disastrous, a win would be excellent. 

1 hour ago, rigger said:

If you think that performance was acceptable, your standards are a lot lower than mine. Personally I think , if any player on the pitch yesterday, from either side, reached a level of average, then I missed it. 

I think the performance overall was below par, of course it was, though there were still positives to take from it, not least endeavour & successful determination to get 3 points.

We won't steamroller teams regularly 13 games into a new season; some peoples' performance expectations on a consistent basis are still too high imo.  Don't forget, Millwall finished above us last season, as did Luton.

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You don’t have to be a brilliant footballer to be effective at pressing the ball. To play “ City “ style football you need much higher levels of skill. In a sentence “ It’s much easier to destroy than create “,

I agree to a point, but in the PL you'll see better organisation, hunting in packs, better fitness / pace & greater intensity than you do in the Championship. It's the same principle as you allude to, of the quality improving as you go up the divisions.

12 minutes ago, Hasta said:

In general you can't complain with 6 wins and 6th place at the start of October.

However its not the general style of football and possessional play that bothers me. If we want to knock it across a back line for a bit to try and find an opening that's fine. Its pretty dull to watch and if the game is going against us it will be highlighted, but if it helps us control games and thus get more points great. If that's how he wants to play then great, although Buckley and Dack suit possession play more than Gallagher ever will. I'm seeing less and less of the "high press" we thought he would instill.

However Kaminsky passing to his centre halves or midfielders when they are stood 12 yards from goal and under pressure is incredibly high risk with little reward. It's cost us goals already at Luton and should have cost us yesterday. The players we had yesterday are simply not good enough footballers to receive the ball and pass out in that situation. You say "It takes time though to grow to be more incisive & build up confidence", but it doesn't matter how long JDT works at it Ayala, Travis, Hyam, Pickering and Wharton are not going to be able to regularly receive the ball 8 yards from our goal-line and play it through the opposition lines to get us attacking the front foot. 

 

As I said above there's a time and a place for it, and the players don't always select the right moments. There will be bumps in the road to where we want to get to, isn't that what we were told to expect? Here we are, bumping along in 6th place, 5 points off top!

JDT has had two thirds of a transfer window to get to know his squad, identify upgrades & mould a winning team. In that time he's also had to manage us through 13 games (W8 L5) half of which were before the window shut & when we had a mini defensive injury crisis. I just don't see how folk can be disappointed that we're not rolling teams over 3 or 4 nil every week!

And isn't it the job of a head coach & his team to improve their players, as well as find a system & style that suits them? Ayala I agree is probably too old to improve much, but S Wharton, Kaminski, Pickering & Travis are all young enough to improve on that front (I take the view Hyam & Brittain are already there).  Add to that the growth & further first team integration of Morton, Phillips & A Wharton, more coming through the youth team, & suitable acquisitions in future transfer windows & it can only improve.

Whilst improving, they should be encouraged to practise what they're learning in training in a match situation. That will mean errors of judgment are made (some costly, some not) but that's part of the learning process & overall it should lead to a better long term outcome if implemented correctly.

7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’d be surprised if any team gets out of this division playing “ City “ style possession football. To do that you need “ City “ standard players. Most defenders at this level aren’t good enough on the ball to be error free in possession.

Not strictly true because our opposition also isn't the standard that City will face, but I take your point & agree we need to mix it up a bit. There were some heart stopping examples yesterday of when not to overplay!

IMO, things are going better than we had a right to expect overall and that anyone who expected us to be the finished article of what JDT wants us to be by this stage had over-inflated expectations & didn't listen to what GB & JDT clearly set out as their aim on their arrival.

7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I wouldn’t say that. I think we’re still getting to know each other. Having said that it’s a bit puzzling that having identified the “ Dutch Disease “ as a way of playing to be avoided he appears to have adopted it.

It takes time though to grow to be more incisive & build up confidence. The Dutch Disease refers to passing for passing's sake, the theory being if we have the ball, the oppo won't score, but then not developing further into passing with precision, at speed & progressively up the pitch using 1 & 2 touches.

It's clear JDT wants to take us beyond the possession only game into a more fluid, progressive style of 1/2 touch flowing style. We've seen it at times this season (Swansea leaps to mind). That process will be bumpy, we were warned about that from his arrival, so I don't see what folk are complaining about whilst seeing us sitting in 6th place! 

There's no patience in football amongst most fans, who seem to think we should be a finished product 12 games in. It's not JDT's fault what he inherited, give him time to stamp his ideas on a young team in a situation where he's barely had a fully fit squad to choose from!

I've watched the 3 videos and having done so am reminded of why I was so enthused by him when he was first unveiled. 

I think he has a very natural demeanour, and displays a confidence when he talks of knowing what he wants to achieve and how that can be reached. But he does so without arrogance or exaggeration and quite humbly. He talks about things from the fans perspective, understanding the desire for success but not wavering from the need for that to be sustainable.

He also doesn't shirk questions, answers them straight & without hesitancy. I'm really impressed.

Of course actions speak louder than words. I've no way of knowing whether what he says in the vids (re the owners, Waggott, the transfer window prep, Hirst being JDT's no 1 striker target etc) are true, but that said everything he says makes sense. They have replaced the 6 key players lost, promoted from within, and crucially (for long term sustainability) protected the club's investments by agreeing new deals with Buckley, Wharton, Phillips, Barnes et al. He explicitly states we should be looking 2-3 years ahead on that front and build accordingly.

All the initial signs are he is doing what he said he wouldn the summer. He seemed a breath of fresh air when he joined & imo so far is following through on that, so all credit to him so far, long may that continue.