I get what you're trying to illustrate gav but that's not an entirely fair comparison imo.

This was a Tees / Wear derby between 2 clubs in big towns in an area where there's only 4 or 5 clubs of any note within a 100 miles radius, happening for the first time in 5 years. Middlesbrough has a population of 150,000, Sunderland nearly double that. Both have large catchment areas beyond their boundaries with not much competition for fans.

The towns of Blackburn & Burnley have combined populations of about 200,000, and 3/4 world renowned clubs within about an hour's drive of each, plus maybe a dozen others. If you compare last night in that context to the E Lancs derby to come, I have no doubt that there will be as much passion, pride & bouncing on show at Ewood as there was at the Riverside.

I've just read online that apparently Wout Weighorst was drop kicked on the pitch by an opposition fan whilst playing in Turkey at the weekend.

How the mighty fall...!

I'm not sure our poor run of results there over the last decade or so is much of a factor. How many of our current squad have experienced defeat there? 4, 5 players? Not enough for it to be thought of as a bogey ground for them.

Moving on, it's a game we should win. I'll be disappointed if we don't, but at this stage what would be more important to me would be to see a solid performance where we can look back and say we deserved 3 points from the game, whether we get them or not. It's far too early to be writing the season (or JDT, or any individual player) off if we lose. Having no midweek game for the first time since week one I think, should allow time to get some good training in re patterns of play, set-piece development, transitions etc. & to bed in the JDT way into the squad.

Plus further time for injured players to get fit.

I'll plump for a 2-0 away win.

Likewise.

19 minutes ago, rigger said:

Ok you don't agree with me, that is your prerogative. My thoughs are a player should show consistancy at whatever level he is at. It is then upto the manager to decide if that shown consistancy is good enough for what the manager wants.

The only way I can agree with you is if you mean consistency within a range of expected performance levels, eg. mostly between 5 out of 10 to 8 out of 10, with the odd outlier above or below that.

But I suspect that's not what you mean, that you expect 7s or 8s week in week out. That's what I believe is unrealistic as there are just too many variables to expect or demand  consistency at such a high level IMO. Form, confidence, the opposition, your teammates' performance, off-pitch issues, manager's instructions, weather conditions, the playing surface, the list goes on.

This is not making excuses, but rather accepting reality.  If such things didn't impact performance, then the game would be far more predictable and all the less enjoyable for it IMO. Minimising the negative impact of such issues & maximising the positives is part of the key role of management & coaching, to know the person that is behind the player. It'll take Tomasson & his team more than a couple of months to work that out.

23 hours ago, rigger said:

I work on the therory, This is Blackburn Rovers, if you are not consistent every week, why are you here. I pay my money consistantly, why can't you play that way ?

Sorry but that's completely unrealistic Rigger, way too black & white. Players are human, not robots (Haaland aside!).  They have good days when they feel & perform at their best, and bad days when nothing seems to go right, just like you & I do.

Even at the top table the same thing applies. Look no further than Rashford today, who scored 2 excellent goals after a number of dire performances. Or Pogba, or Koulibaly, or Grealish to name a few.

On 03/09/2022 at 19:22, glen9mullan said:

Can have no complaints today, tactically out mastered by Pearson and Bristol out played us in every department.

Scoreline flattered us.

I'm still quite concerned about us tactically. We were good mid-week, but today were put right in our place.

I agree with the first two lines. 

However isn't the the last line just entirely indicative of the Championship? Reading got stuffed by Rotherham, but despite that are sitting pretty in 3rd.  Norwich lost their first 3 or something but are now 2nd.

I'm not saying everything is hunky dory or that Tomasson is a tactical genius; imo he got the subs wrong at HT, he should've removed Morton & moved Travis into midfield with Buckley going to RB, as we missed Travis' bite in midfield, and got Dack playing further forward as he was too deep 1st half.

But as I've said before, there's too much overreaction to each defeat. We're weeks into his 3 year tenure, we've won 4 of 8, won 2 cup games, & most of that was with a very thin squad. We'd all have taken this on the day of his appointment, yes?

He's got a lot to learn about the Championship, about the club, the players, support staff. I'm sure he knows that more than anyone & imo he shows the attitude, aptitude & intelligence to develop & adapt.

Poor 1st half that. Miss some bite in midfield with Travis at RB and Wharton on an early yellow. Dack too deep and not supporting Hirst, so any knockdown or flick ons give possession back.

Tighten up midfield & we can turn the tide. Take off Wharton for Buckley, put Buckley at RB and move Travis inside, and get dack playing further forward. Give them more to think about defensively.

2 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I cant comment about Burns having not seen him but all Im saying against curtain teams a headless chicken upfront can be effective.

I agree, Dolan's pressing ability will often draw a foul or a turnover, much more effective than hanging around waiting for a window of opportunity.

I am seeing on other recent threads an increased amount of criticism being leveled at him, which I believe is mostly unwarranted. Some have even written him off completely here.

I do agree he has flaws; he overplays, makes poor decisions, flatters to deceive re his speed. He tends to shoot high, often lacks the technique to get over the ball.

All of those things are, however, coachable. He is only 20 years old. Players develop at different speeds. If he had the awareness of say Wharton, he would be infinitely better, but that can come with time & patience as he has shown an ability to learn. He is still very raw, hopefully working with JDT he can mould him and improve all those flaws. He has all the basic talent to achieve highly in this game.

He is not a CF, or a false 9,  as he has often been deployed almost out of necessity. His best position IMO is a winger, and can prob play either side. He can harass from there, beat his man but then needs to learn to improve his delivery. Hopefully having Hirst to aim for high, or Dack / Szmodics  / BBD / Wharton holding deeper, the improved options he has for an outball will improve his assist stats.

I do agree that, at this time,  he is probably better as an impact sub whilst he is learning. But he certainly is beyond needing to be loaned out IMO, or indeed released.

We can't afford to sell BBD now  unless the buying team has something to offer us. 

I wouldn't want anyone from Everton as a make-weight.

1. 4th

2. Wharton

3. Wharton

4. Watford

5. 3rd

I am bracing myself for another filling in the sticker book, then we can give these poor tooth puns the brush off.

Just been listening to Paul Barber on Talksport, he's Brighton's CEO. Was really interesting to hear what he had to say and the way they've handled things in the last few years to become a stable & progressive club from being at the point of extinction.

I hope Waggott, Suhail or anyone else with influence was listening (I doubt they were, even less so the owners).

12 hours ago, Mike E said:

Anyone slagging off GB fancy reining it in a bit, given who we've just signed and how?

Alright Mike, no need to get all Hyam mighty about it.

I feel his display second half yesterday warrants the commencement of a thread of his own, as he clearly has talent and will be more & more involved this season as it progresses.

He was excellent; his first touch, his vision, his range of passing, his desire to go forwards, and get stuck into a tackle. It was all there, really promising. 

Let's hope he can push on, gain a bit of strength & be a real asset. 

Mr & Mrs Wharton must be over the moon.

"I hate that when people raise genuine questions whether it be about players out of position, what the style is, where the goals will come from etc, that they are shot down by people who will not allow constructive debate about the manager if it involves and doubts or constructive criticisms."

I'm not trying to shut any debate down, but I hate that when people try to see things less bleak than others they're labelled "happy clappers" or Venkys apologists who lap up everything the club says and will always be happy with mid table mediocrity (not necessarily you roversfan).

That 2nd half showed plenty of evidence of what JDT has spoken about; of skill, endeavour, talent, belief, one-touch round the corner passing & lay offs. I've just seen the v brief highlights, the evidence is there for those who care to see it & themselves be constructive, quite apart from the disallowed goals that aren't shown.

We were poor yesterday first half, no doubt. The players' attitude was all wrong. JDT saw it, changed it at HT using young blood mixed with experience, and thereafter we ran the game and on any other afternoon would've got at least 1 goal. 

It's just too early to be saying "I'm beginning to think JDT isn't all that" or that he can talk the talk but not walk the walk. Discussing individual decisions is fine, but judging his overall managerial credentials after 6 games (8 if you count two comprehensive cup wins) is just plain wrong & unfair.

Edit: you can tell my wife is out with the in-laws today, I have free reign to let loose on here!!

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As a side note it's nonsense to say we had goals ruled out yesterday. The referee blew long before the ball ended up in the net on each occasion.

I would absolutely beg to differ on "long before". There were seconds in it on both occasions, both created clear goal scoring situations and their keeper still attempted to save them but failed iirc (I've not seen any replays). A competent referee would see the foul, note the advantage and wave play on, not whistle straight away.

8 time out of 10, we would score at least 1 goal from a performance like that 2nd half. 

Things really aren't as bad as people are making out, I just don't get the desire of so many people to over-criticise. We know this league is full of ups & downs, inconsistent performances. To expect consistency from us at this stage with a young, thin squad under new management is, quite frankly, bonkers.

56 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Expected goals!

Bollocks.

Wake me up when the ball is in the back of the net.

It was, twice, from open play, after good one touch football opened up a tight defence, but in his infinite wisdom the ref disallowed them due to 2 fouls on us about 3 seconds before the ball crossed the line. We'd be top if the ref had half a clue about how to do his job and had let the play go.

That doesn't excuse an abject 1st half showing, which was not down to tactics IMO opinion but a combination of a thin squad & poor individual performances from Buckley & JRC in particular; we were effectively playing with 9 men, and others made poor on the ball decisions.

If stats don't matter, why do football coaches & management teams have so much invested in analytics?  I get they can be analysed to the nth degree to the point of becoming meaningless, but I do think certain stats can be telling, xg amongst them.

5 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

You can't because the 8.3 is shots per game, not shots per goal. 

But here's another stat that indicates that we should've got something out of yesterday,  despite many opinions to the contrary & such a poor first half. And that doesn't count the goals ruled out. So my eyes didn't deceive me... things really aren't as bad as is being made out by many!

I'm sorry, but those questioning JDT's managerial credentials, pls give your heads a wobble.

He's 8 games into the season, W3 L3, won 2 cup matches albeit against lower league. Hardly disastrous. All done with what we all know is a paper thin squad inherited halfway into the summer from previous management which has been further stretched due to more-than-average injuries in defence and loss of form of a couple of key players.

It's not perfect; it never will be perfect, quite apart from it not yet being 2 months into his tenure. We've lost two away games 3-0, deservedly so it sounds like; one of those sides is many peoples' favourites for automatic promotion (we beat another one in WBA), the other is sitting pretty in 1st position (yet still only 3 points ahead of us). Yesterday, without 3 regular starters (Gally, Hedges & Brittain), after an abject 1st half he recognised the problems, switched systems & personnel & we were relentless in the 2nd half. We had the ball in the back of the net twice which shouldn't have been pulled back for fouls (I presume @arbitro would agree), plus a nailed on penalty denied. Stoke defended well TBF, blocked shots at source (which I think don't get counted as on target, even if they are), and Dolan & BBD fluffed their lines a couple of times. I'd have been much more worried if the 2nd half continued like the 1st, but they were chalk & cheese.

Someone said why play BBD out wide, it's ridiculous; but we know how effective he is from there, not just for us but for Chile too. It's his best position to make use of his abilities. To criticise JDT in that respect is, with respect, what's ridiculous.

It takes time to build a squad, for new ideas to sink in, to put it into practise on the pitch, to build fitness to play aggressively in and out of position.

When JDT came in most people were urging patience, yet that seems to be in ever shorter supply. He needs time & he needs backing.

This match is what the phrase "game of 2 halves" was made for. Turgid first half, but what a turnaround in all but the scoreline. 

Kaminski 6 - made some good saves 1st half but shouldn't have conceded the only goal. Had little to do 2nd half.

JRC 2 - that's being generous, though unfortunate to be booked. Looked well lost, is clearly not a RB, Travis played far better there 2nd half than him.  Confidence must be shot, needs a loan out or selling.

Ayala 7 - guilty of overplaying 1st half but did his defensive work fantastically and in all other respects was a rock.

Phillips 7 - his best game, was put under a lot of pressure by dirty Delap & cocky Gayle, but dealt with it well. Like the rest, had a better 2nd half than 1st.

Pickering 6 - did ok, was left isolated a bit and also got caught a couple of times overplaying. Not as bad as some make out, but ought to consider himself at risk of being replaced in the transfer market.

Morton 6 - I think his presence encouraged us to overplay. Was way too slow & negative 1st half but improved in second. Could be a good signing once gets up to speed with the Championship. 

Travis 6 - like everyone else, had a poor first half but ably deputiised at RB 2nd half. Got shown up for pace a couple of times by Campbell, but showed desire & passion that is his trait.

Buckley 3 - poor passing, poor drive, poor decision making, had a very off day & deserved to be hooked. Not having a good season, maybe feels unsettled under new management (first change in his career?)

Szmodics 5 - showed a couple of touches but didn't really get into the game before he was taken off injured. That incident should've been a penalty, the ball had gone so why Flint (?) felt the need to wallop him in the head I don't know.

Dack 6 - poor first half in unfamiliar role, did better 2nd. Was coming too deep to influence play in an attacking sense, but linked up well in 2nd half. Will benefit from 90 mins fitness wise.

BBD 6 - anonymous first half, much better second but poor end product. Likely to be his last game for us, shame he was unable to sign off with a goal.

Subs

Dolan 5 - frustratingly wasteful. Has skill & talent to hurt opponents but makes some poor decisions re not shooting. Should've done better when 1 on1 with defenders on numerous occasions. Is still only 20, hopefully game intelligence will come (like it did with BBD).

Hedges 7 - did v well when he came on, drove at them, pressed, brought others into play. Showed passion & grit that was badly missing 1st half.

Wharton 7 - wow, looks quality, has that languid style with his passing but is also tenacious out of possession. Seems to read the game well, has good vision, wasn't at all overawed. We've got to keep him.

Carter 6 - looked solid enough, can't recall him doing anything wrong & got stuck in when required.

Edun 6 - was only on for 5 mins but showed good attacking instincts compared to Pickering. Wasn't really tested defensively.

JDT 7 - although 1st half was poor & some selections debatable, he had few options given injuries to Gally & Brittain. In his position I'd've played Vale and Dack, with Szmodics on the bench, but he had a right to expect better from JRC & especially Buckley. Was right to hook them both at half time & bring on Hedhes & Wharton, both of whom changed the game. Hindsight suggests they would've been better starting, but that would've been a very brave decision. Way too soon to be critical of JDT imo.

We missed Gallagher's physical presence & energy imo, is v underated the amount of work he gets through, even if his goal return should be better.

Ref was awful. Delap was holding on throughout, pulled BBD's shirt off almost, gave nothing. Szmodics got whacked in the head on the area after the ball had gone, he gave nothing but Szmodics had to go off. Booked JRC for a soft foul early on. Worst of all, in 2nd half missed a clear pen for BBD and then stopped play twice to give us free kicks when, if he'd have let play run on a couple of seconds, we'd have scored 2 goals.

Overall can feel aggrieved at a loss overall, but cannot play like we did for 30 mins & hope to achieve anything of note.

I hope your dad has a great day with his family Neal, continues to improve, and that the lads put on a show to remember for him.

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

It looks like we're at the 'Dack, Hedges and Markanday are like new signings' stage with some. Add to that a wishful thought that the youngsters can step up and there you have it. We're actually stronger than last season, most of the 12 that left were crap anyway, and we don't need that many signings.

The club's PR done for them, the owners and their middlemen smiling from ear to ear. See you all in January for more of the same.

Hang on, weren't you amongst those predicting a lower half finish / relegation battle this season a few weeks back? If not, I'm certain you weren't expecting 3 wins from the first 5 games, yet here we are with a good chance to make that 4 in 6 this aft.

It's a start to the season that all of us would've taken in July. Early days I know, but I think the negatives of a slow transfer window & past experiences of mismanagement under TM & Co (admittedly with the owners & SW still in place) are unfairly over inflated on here, as is possibly some of the optimism / hope that I tend to side with (it makes life more bearable!).

I'm not brainwashed, I'm realistic. I don't expect promotion this year as no one has said that's the do-or-die aim since the new structure & management team came in. This season however does lend itself so far to the belief that the league is more open than ever, so let hope win over despair I say!

Armstrong starting for Southampton this lunchtime v Man U. For those hoping for a potential return on loan, I think that can be dismissed.