What about Chmiel? He's with the Polish U19s & seems highly regarded too.

38 minutes ago, rigger said:

From what I have seen, I doubt any of the ones you have mentioned will make the first team.

Not the answer I was hoping for, but thanks!

It sounds at least like Gent, Haddow, Harlock, Leonard & Pratt seem decent though, from what I've heard? Add in Sam Barnes, Garrett, Wharton & Phillips and there's still a decent string coming through.

There's an interesting interview with Head of Academy Stuart Jones on the Rovers website on the back of the landmark of the club achieving 600 consecutive league matches with an academy graduate in the team. Worth a watch.

I don't get to see any if the under age games due to.living outside the area. There were some names on that team sheet that I didn't recognise (Gamble, Montgomery, Weston, Wood), does anyone on here know anything about them?

21 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Actually turns out I was the one schooled by MB, Sweaty Gussets and DE. The modern use of decimated to mean "greatly reduced" is in all the dictionaries, I just had a look. Mea Culpa. Theres something uniquely tragic about the pedant who turns out to be wrong.

(But it's literally got 'deci' in it! *shakes fist*)

M_B & Sweaty Gussets have been trying to school me all weekend; don't listen to them, they don't know as much as they think they do!!

😅

The Beautiful South - Song for Anyone

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I know on BRFCS we love an excursion into language pedantry and one of my peeves is the outrageous misuse of "decimated". It literally means "to reduce by one tenth" as "deci" derived from the Latin for the suggests. It comes from the somewhat harsh ancient Roman legion practice of summarily executing 1 of 10 of their own legionnaires after a particularly humiliating defeat or act of insurrection.

Its often used today to mean "enormous reduction" but it's just wrong to do so. If the argument is we lost 12 players from a say 30 man squad then it's a manifestly insufficient term!

(Apologies, I was going to let it pass but it's been used half a dozen times on this thread incorrectly and I just couldn't stop myself).

I have stuck that in my pipe & am smoking it humbly as I type.

Every day's a school day!

2 minutes ago, LDRover said:

So can we argue about it or not?

Haha, you got me.

I'll leave that one to the mods to decide!

1 hour ago, M_B said:

I'm quite happy how it's going, when it's gone well,  there have been some really good signs and we've played some exciting football. 

I'm just not having "decimated" when players who are clearly able to play, are being overlooked for ones who were originally here. 

You're giving excuses for the new signings not playing, Brittain is valid although he did come on against Luton. 

Szmodics played on Saturday for the under 21's. 

Mola is a new recruit, but came on against Watford. 

Hirst likewise on Saturday. 

Wharton was left out, as was Markanday,as was Dack. 

I'm not unhappy with Tomasson, I just don't agree that a manager with a "decimated" squad would have the luxury of voluntarily leaving out the above players, especially his main signing. Then, whilst leaving out the above players, managed to play each one of the starting 11 in his preferred position (Carter is arguable). 

That isn't evidence of a decimated squad. 

My own point regarding the squad being decimated was with regards to comparing TM's last squad to JDT's first.  Clearly now it's a stronger squad than on day one, though arguably still weaker than last season.  I think that's unarguable. 

Clearly the first 10 games were coloured by a lack of options & being forced to give debuts to teenagers & play men out of position. Despite that, we got 5 wins (+ 2 cup wins), which I think is a very solid return in context, and more than comparable to what Kompany or Beale have achieved, for example.

Now we have a fixed squad for 3 months, the next portions of games pre- and post-world cup are about getting them to gel, developing plans a, b and c, whilst also planning for the January window to bring in ripe & ready players that can slot neatly into the squad & give us the chance to better cope with inevitable injuries & suspensions & have a strong finish to the season. 

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me, and we're in decent shape to build on a solid start.

5 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Decimation? Good grief!! Only Nyambe, Lenihan, Rothwell, JPVH and Khadra contributed much of anything. The rest of the 11 hardly played. And a turnover of 5 first teamers is a pretty standard summer in the Championship. lots of teams will have a had a similar turnover of 1st teamers, and some teams a few more. 

5 hours ago, Gav said:

Spot on.

Haha, this message board in a nutshell!!

JPVH was player of the year, Lenihan club captain, Nyambe our only RB. Rothwell was subject to a £3m bid with 5 months left on his contract, would walk into most teams at this level. Khadra now on loan at the division's leaders. That's quite a quintet to lose & replace, especially for no income received from them.

When you consider that when he arrived we had what, 15 players leftover in the first team squad that finished 8th the previous season, JDT has done as well as could be expected to have us in 7th 10 games in. He knows there are improvements to make, let's give him the time, patience & support to do so.

51 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

If you've spent 35 years in the Riverside and you can still remain positive then you probably actually are fun at parties! 

You and your mates on the Riverside with your guitars! 🙂 

🤣 I try not to let the buggers get me down!

(You could probably develop a Brereton-ton-ton song from that clip...)

2 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

If you think that's contradictory and/or in any way a comparable situation, then we really are going to have to agree to disagree!

Well 4 others liked my post so I'm not alone, but I'm happy to agree with all them & disagree with you! 

😁

Seriously, I'm all for good, rational debate and can accept others have opinions & won't agree with me, that's life right? It doesn't mean I won't try to persuade them to see the error of their ways though!

Who knows what the future holds? I hope it's bright but it's never black & white.

Football, & Rovers in particular, is my escapism so I want it to be as positive an experience as possible. If that means preferring a glass to be half full than half empty, as 5 league wins & 5 defeats alluded to, then so be it.

And that's from a card-carrying Riversider of 35+ years!!

3 hours ago, M_B said:

I don't know for a fact that Szmodics was 100% fit, but surely that isn't the point. He was fit enough to turn out for the under 21's, if the squad is decimated, then he would have played for the first team. Same goes for Wharton, Tomasson wouldn't have had the luxury of making the choice. 

Injuries don't come into it, they're part and parcel of getting through the season, we're now talking about loaning Phillips out to give him games. 

I just don't subscribe to the theory that Tomasson inherited a decimated squad. 

Young, light on numbers maybe, but when he signs 6 new players and only 2 are starting games, then it doesn't really add up does it? 

That's a bit sneaky, as Brittain has been injured for the last few matches & would clearly have started yesterday but for that. Likewise Szmodics would've had more game time but for his concussion.  Hyam & Morton have been trusted (admittedly with varying degrees of success in Morton's case), there's only really Mola who has failed to figure yet & Hirst, both of whom were very late window signings.

Clearly the squad is stronger now than it was on July 30th, but surely there can be no argument that the lost of 12 squad players (inc 5 of the preferred first 11) equates to its decimation??

Phillips can't be loaned out until Jan; I'm sure that won't happen without us being numerically secure if he does, and clearly there's a strong argument for it to be in his & the club's best interests, given the successes of Scott W & Carter.

2 hours ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

Without wanting to look like a stalker & bring this up again (!), I've just read the following quote from JDT after yesterday:

"I have said from the beginning that the November break will be very important for this team. I want to be on the pitch to get the chance to train on the pitch. It's a young and new group. After November, then I think you will see a more steady Blackburn, more consistent."

I think that's fair enough; by the end of the Jan transfer window, we should be achieving that consistency in his view.

I like the look of Arsenal this season. They won't win it, but a top 4 finish should be there for their taking.

54 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He needs a run of 4 or 5 consecutive games before a judgement can be made either way on his fitness. Maybe he's not the problem? 

Dare I point out that this could be construed as contradictory? That Dack requires a 5 game run in the side to prove his fitness, whereas JDT ought by now to have fully instilled his entire principles into the squad after a shortened pre-season, a run of 12 games in 7 weeks, half of which were played with a stretched squad, no fit senior CBs & with no recognised centre forward? Whilst he should also be trying to accommodate a player being rehabilitated after 2 years out with serious bilateral knee injuries?

Sounds a lot to ask to me.

FWIW I do find Dack's lack of game time disconcerting. It must either be because JDT just does not fancy him in terms of his style as a player (which sounds odd given his proven talent at this level), due to his fitness levels (which may be understandable due to his injuries), or his attitude in training (which might be exemplified by his liking of the tweet above). I presume he & JDT have spoken & that JDT has explained his position to Dack (if not that would be remiss of him), but no one player is bigger than the club, as JDT has pointed out throughout his brief time here.

36 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Good to see you don't report people for engaging in genuine discussion. It's also refreshing to engage with someone who is capable of a discussion, rather than making it personal....and then running to the teacher like children.  I feel a bromance coming on💗

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.  He's had more than enough time IMO to implement his own style (see Kompany and many other managers down the ages) - fast intense attacking football with a 'fluid' front four is how JDT advertised it. There's been very little evidence of that. Maybe it will come in time.

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

Sorry, my mum always warned me to stay away from people with poor hygiene standards. 😉

Yes we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think he needs this season as a bedding in period. It's a strange one as this season is f*caked up by the world cup so it's one game every 4 days or so after the international break, then again after the world cup by which time the Jan transfer window is upon us; normally there would be free weeks without a midweek game during which coaching staff could focus on things other than just post-match recovery & game prep.

As others have said & as we were told to expect on their arrival, this season is about bedding in, gradually growing a settled style with appropriate personnel. Unless that period of time is producing disastrous relegation form (which it isn't atm) & risking our championship status then GB, JDT & his coaching team & the new recruitment guy should be given time to gel together for the longer term benefit of the club. I know some might not want to hear that, but realistically that's what we ought to allow imo.

53 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

You've referenced me so I'll respond. Hopefully you won't report me.

My criticism is even handed and within context thanks (not that you're the judge of even-handedness or context on here!)

Kompany has been here exactly the same amount of time as JDT. He's changed from Dyche-ball to a possession-based game. There is a fundamental change in style at Burnley and a massive turnover of players, a far' bigger change on both counts than has happened at Rovers. These are undeniable facts, so repeatedly saying I'm 'plain wrong' is not a valid argument. 

The change in performance/style from Mowbray to JDT is barely noticeable.

Oh, and our coaching staff are not 'entirely new'. Now that is 'plain wrong'!

Why would I report you for replying if I referenced you directly? I've never reported anyone, let alone someone who engages in constructive discussion!

The only thing that is similar between Kompany & Tomassen is the approx date they took control of their respective clubs. Even then Kompany came into a club with loads of money to pick & choose his targets, whereas we've had to rely as much on bringing youngsters through as signing older, more experienced players. Kompany had been lined up months earlier to take over at Burnley too so had plenty of time to prep for the role, whereas we all know that this project found Tomasson only once Gregg approached him after his own appointment a few weeks into close season.

I accept they may have moved from a direct approach under Dyche to more of a cultured way of playing, but didn't that start straight after Dyche was potted in April & they went on a run that nearly saved their skins?

And let's not forget, Burnley are only 2 points ahead of us having had their own blips.

I just don't see how you can draw the conclusion that JDT needs to change his coaching methods just because we're not playing fluid football week in week out. 

On the coaching team point, fair enough it's not totally new. But the 2 kept on are the least senior of the 5 now in place so it doesn't dilute my overall point; they have to do as they're told too & change their ways of coaching to fit JDT's desires, which arguably strengthens my point about lots of background changes that can't possibly be fully implemented in the time he's been here.

1 hour ago, M_B said:

A manager with a "decimated" squad doesn't leave out his most expensive signing for two games when fit,and prioritise England u19's over a league match at Luton. 

Let's have it right, the squad is there as shown on Tuesday, he's having to leave supposedly important players out of the squad, never mind the team. 

He's got the players at his disposal, nobody expects miracles and joint 5th is a more than creditable start, but the decimated squad argument needs leaving behind, it's been disproved already. 

Is that what JDT did though? Do we know 100% that Szmodics is 100% after his concussion 2 weeks ago? Do we know that his reason for not including 18 y/o Wharton was to ensure he was fit for England? I think (and stand to be corrected) that's just suspicion or conjecture; they could also be decisions purely with the players' own welfare in mind.  

For the majority of the 10 games played in the league we've had a decimated, stretched squad where we've had LBs at CB, midfielders at RB, a 17yr old at CB & an 18 year old at CM. several 18 yr old academy players have made their debuts out of necessity rather than choice. There can be no argument there surely, albeit I agree that's not the reason we lost & played poorly yesterday.

Joint 5th as you put it is a more than acceptable start IMO, with some good performances mixed in with some poor ones. Time & patience is key.

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I haven't read all the posts but the ones I have read nobody is writing him off. The criticism he has had is valid don't you think. In fact in some of his interviews he has alluded to the same things himself. He's a big boy doing a job in the public eye and criticism is part of it.

Absolutely; constructive criticism is valid & welcome, the more the better,. But let's do it in context & be even-handed about the ups & the downs.  I agree that we don't know yet if JDT is a good manager / head coach. Even if he is, good managers don't a achieve success at every club.

My disagreement was with Sweaty Gussets, who said that JDT has had enough time to get his ideas across to the players, is in the same boat as any other manager, and therefore needs to change his coaching methods as they're clearly not working. 

I think that's plain wrong on all counts.

Chalk & cheese performances is exactly what you'd expect of a young, newly assembled squad under an entirely new coaching staff that has barely had a free week to focus on training without game prep (which I agree is the same for all managers, but not all started the season as far behind as we were, yet we're still 7th or joint 5th as someone else referred to it (who must wear even stronger rose-coloured glasses than me!)) 😉

Five Star - System Addict

I stand by my beliefs and am not missing any point in the argument. To be frank, I'm astounded that this is controversial in some people's eyes.

I said I was generally content with the start made in the context of where we were when GB & JDT arrived. We've had games (like Blackpool, QPR, Watford), where we've dominated & looked great, other games like today, Reading & Sheff Utd where we've looked the opposite. 

We can't ignore the context. We were told project, 3 to 4 windows, build a platform for a sustainable PL club; where we are now is a club in transition, exactly as was said on the tin. The starting point was a decimated squad missing half an 8th placed team, where 4 or 5 academy players have since made their first team debuts in a dozen games, and 4 players arrived in the last week if the transfer window (6 league games into the season) because we had no head coach until mid June, no DoF until 2 weeks earlier &  a head of recruitment who's only just joined! 

Against Watford, Blackpool, QPR & W Brom we've seen a lot of good football, pressing, 1 & 2 touch passing. I believe that's what he wants to develop, but it'll take time to get a young, still small squad to be able to adopt a consistent version of that, especially when it's 2 games a week.

9 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He came in the same week as Kompany. Kompany has got his ideas across very quickly...and he lost far more players. He also completely changed their style. 

I think you need to stop making excuses for a manager who doesn't seem to know how to get the best out of his players, and doesn't even seem to have a style of play. 

Kompany has had far more money to spend than we have to replace those players lost,  and he came down with a squad full of Prem experience.

They're only 2 points ahead of us.

I'm not making excuses, I'm pointing out facts. Answer me this  would you or would you not have taken 7th place after 10 games when we kicked off in July?

Such a short term outlook that you & some others display is part of what's wrong with modern football. It takes time to make changes, and that's just what he and Gregg told us on their arrival, so why some folk are expecting more than what we have at this stage is hard to fathom.

If JDT is going to insist on a style of play that relies on high press, 1 and 2 touch passing & a possession game that is proactive, he's not going to be able to do that in the Championship in 10 games. This season is playing out no differently than he warned us it would when he took the job; a project, ups & downs, bumps in the road.

I'd say that 5 wins & 5 defeats epitomises that, so I don't really see why folk are getting so het up & frustrated at this early stage! We've had some tough games (away at the leaders, away at the Reading (now in 3rd), home to QPR (now in 6th), home to Watford & W Brom, home Bristol City in 9th, away at Luton who finished 6th last year & where we've NEVER won.

Am I frustrated by today? Of course, but let's keep things in perspective and allow a whole new backroom set-up time to bed in. 

14 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

This keeps being repeated, but every other manager is in the same boat. If JDT can't get his ideas across after a full pre-season and a quarter of the season then maybe he needs to use a different approach to coaching. 

And that's even before we discuss if his ideas are any good, or even workable in the Championship. 

The jury is still very much out on if he's any good.  

What?! Sorry but that's just not true!

He inherited a team that had lost 5 first teamers (inc its captain), and didn't join until mid June was it, with the season starting on 30th July. He had 5 weeks with a tiny squad who he didnt know from Adam, a newly installed DoF to work with, in totally new surroundings & facilities in a pre-season programme that he didn't organise & which he openly said he wouldn't have chosen!

That is not the same boat as any other manager, yet he's got his team in 7th place, ahead of nearly 75% of his peers & well ahead of the likes of Wilder, Bruce & others with far more championship experience.

I can't believe how quickly you're leaping into him and saying he needs to use a different method of coaching! Coaches can't instill all their ideas & values on a team in 3 months, especially when there've been what, 12 games in 7 weeks??

You're expecting miracles there, & being entirely unrealistic & therefore unfair IMO. I think you need to readjust your expectations. 

It sounds like today was pretty poor, which is disappointing after Tuesday. I felt a bit more steel was needed today, with the likes of Wharton, Mola & Hirst more suited than Dolan & Morton in particular. Tactical error there I think.

Overall though we're now 10 games into the season and sit in 7th place. On 29th July we would all have taken that. There are certainly things to improve upon, but also clear signs of how we might develop as the season progresses & another 2 or 3 windows pass.

To have 15 points from 10 games is solid, if unspectacular. That's fine by me, given the context. This next 2 weeks affords JDT time with moat of his squad to really focus on drills, styles, patterns if play, set pieces etc. and to plan for the next barrage of games leading up to the World Cup.

I think many feared we'd be in a much worse situation than this at the start of the season, so let's not just focus on the negatives, let's keep it balanced.