Oh no, this site is starting to glitch under the pressure!

Tense? Nervous? Headache??

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I was hoping the match might provide a distraction…. but I suspect it will only further highlight the glaring areas for improvement in the squad. Gallagher nailed on to have an absolute nightmare and Morton with another assist for the opposition.

Neither are starting, but other than that top marks!!

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I would've quoted you if it was directed at you.

However yours is just one of a number iv'e seen along similar lines though mostly as usual facebook and twitter.  The accepting where we are, what we have etc i get that and have no problem with it. The ones who've bought the project talk on top of the journey talk to the extremes iv'e seen as in this season doesn't matter type stuff just boils my blood.

You'd have to be beamed down from Mars if all of a sudden we think this is just the start of a genuine solid ambitious plan to build a Prem team in a year or two.

It has every hallmark of down scaling again whilst leaving enough in place to tread water on a lower wage low spend model. To pass up the opportunities we have by having zero immediate ambition is plain crazy to the point of utter stupidity (again). You don't need millions to be ambitious you just need a bit more leeway and some genuine drive for it. We saw that this time last season and exactly the things i mentioned were missing. The whole idea of change was to try and find those things with a different attitude and voice in the building.

Seems not.

Fair enough, others haven't quoted in the past when they should have & we've gone down rabbit holes as a result!

I've just posted a reply to Mercer above which adds more to what I feel. I get the frustration, but surely the journey talk has to be discounted as that's from the previous management team. I can't be bothered going back to the GB and JDT threads but seem to remember most were happy to accept this season as being a transitional one. It can still be successful AND transitional, and clearly GB has tried within the financial constraints he's under but we cannot compete with parachute payments, the lure of Italy, or players changing their minds and deciding to take their chances at forcing their way into a prem team.

10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Mere words for the gullible, naive and happy clappers.

Wise words from someone who thinks the club is a shambles from top to bottom yet week in week out predicts that we should beat practically every opponent we face in pre match threads.

It's gullible and naive to think "we're Blackburn Rovers, 6 time FA Cup winners, 3 times English Champs, League Cup winners". The last of those was 20 years ago & as much as we have fond memories of the 1990s & 2000s, it means nothing now to young English players, their agents or to potential foreign talent. Thanks to Venkys we're irrelevant to most youngsters nowadays and don't have the reputational or financial pulling power we once did.

Supporting a different way of doing things to what hasn't worked in a decade isn't happy clapping, it's being realistic. That doesn't have to mean giving up on playoff hopes, but that's too nuanced for some to grasp I guess.

42 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I don't disagree about the Academy but let's not forget that had the STC sale gone through and moved to the Academy site there would have been a strong likelihood that the Academy would have been downgraded. There wasn't a long term strategy behind that.

But wasn't it Mowbray, Venus & Waggot who were the driving forces behind that? 

That's in the past, before any of us had heard of Greg Broughton or JDT in the context of a young manager. Since they arrived the focus has been very much on longer term stability, regeneration & sustainability. That was something that in the summer most of us craved at a time when relegation was considered more likely than promotion.

Rebuilding this club is analogous to building a team. Starting from the back with a solid defensive platform is the equivalent of building the club from the academy upwards, the rest then follows over a period of time.

I want success as much as you, but not at the cost of throwing longer term sustainability under the bus. I think there's room for both.

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I know what the problem is and hopefully everyone else does too but Tomasson and Broughton are complicit by talking about a three Summer transfer window project. That is where my objection is. This is football and there are more variables than any other business making it extremely difficult to make and plans. Unless you are a mega rich Premier League club then I believe it's too difficult to plan for the next few months never mind years.

But Venkys have spent a decade decimating us & have undone everything Jack built, besides the academy. That being the case, and with the academy being a long term project by definition, then any return to growth has to have that as it's bedrock & therefore must be central to the longer term.

The club has to balance short term potential for promotion against long term regeneration, especially as an unfashionable club in a poor economic area with new sustainability rules coming in and with a hardcore fanbase of 8 or 9 thousand fans, half of whom wonder why they bother as it is. Yes show ambition this season & aim to go up, but don't risk the longer overall strategy of growing with firm foundations, which is what was written on the tin when GB& JDT arrived in the summer.

 Here's hoping we can get some good deals over the line today. 👍

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

When Steve Cooper took over bottom of the table Forest he set a target of taking each game as it comes and winning it to stay up. They went on a run, signed some decent players in the January window and got promoted. There was no plan for this. Once there the planning started for the Premier League and so far it's working. No mention of plans or projects, it's about the here and now. The rest can take care of itself. It's fantasy in my view to talk about three Summer windows as part of the timescale in the project.

Yes true. But Forest were massively underperforming before he took over, which I don't think anyone can say we are given the shambles we were on the summer and the position we're now.

Plus he did that using the loan market very heavily (which is frowned upon by many on here but is the reality of modern football) and, most importantly, under an owner that actually cares for the club & wanted success.

Spot the difference and let's not make GB & JDT scapegoats for the real problem.

19 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So the vibe is it's ok not to strengthen now and fall away again because it isn't quite our time the short term plans don't include play offs or promotion ?

What planet do some of our fans live on ?   Seriously come on how many pups do you need to be sold before any pennies drop ?

I'm assuming this is directed at me as it follows my post?

If so, that's not what I said in response to Arbitro's post is it?  Did I say anything about it being a good thing not strengthening now?

41 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Couldn't disagree more with this either. Arbitro is quite right.

So the club should have a plan that looks no further than May which, by your own admission in a post above, could not guarantee promotion?

Ok, each to their own.

Arbitro is part-right.

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

It all back of a fag packet stuff, management on the hoof. Projects and plans? There is no plan that anybody with any sense can see. The only plan should be promotion this season and not looking beyond that. But we are hearing that the playoffs are not really part of the project yet. They insult our intelligence and yet expect us to keep turning up, paying our money and put trust in the process.

Why on earth do we bother.

I get the general sentiment but I can't agree with this in bold. We need short, medium & long term plans, that's why a DoF is here. They're all as important as each other but the medium & long term plans need to be fixed with defined goals at various stages.

The short term plan needs to dovetail with those, whilst being flexible enough to take advantage of promising situations, or indeed to mitigate threatening ones. That's where the club fell down last January and seems to be doing so again.

And the common denominator there is not GB or JDT.

5 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

We may field a weaker side to save ourselves for Wigan. Problem is we have seen it all before. We will get dumped out the cup and then our saved players will forget to turn up at Wigan. 2 must win games at a pivitol moment in our season.

I'd be really pleased if they forget to turn up at Wigan, PROVIDED they remember to turn up at Ewood instead.

6 hours ago, bluebruce said:

We're talking the 3 from last season, plus BBD, right? BBD on his own had a worth of about £15-20 million this summer if he had been properly under contract. Rothwell, we were supposedly offered 4.5 or 6.5 mill last January with just 6 months on his deal (though I suspect the 6 months was balanced out by the buying club being promotion rivals and wanting to unsettle us, so his fully contracted market worth was probably about what we received). So just those two you're looking at more like 20-25 million (being a bit rough with values as you can't know for sure). It's been shoddy business, I don't care what flimsy excuses anybody wants to throw at me.

I was being conservative in my figures but yes that's right, that's where the problem lies and has been for 11 years in various different guises, from ditching Sam & putting SK in his place, allowing Anderson free reign to line his pockets at the club's expense, to hiring & firing managers in weeks, to appointing Coyle instead of Warnock, to leaving TM in charge for too long then not supporting him 12 months ago, then allowing those 4 players to all leave for not a penny in return, all whilst never being closer than half way across the glove whilst the club rots.

It's quite a charge sheet, and I know there's stuff I've not included that goes beyond.

JDT and GB are not the problem; their difficulties are just another symptom of it. We need to support them as IMO they're the best chance we've had in years of returning to something like an actual football club that wants to progress on and off the pitch.

3 hours ago, CambridgeRover said:

No money to spend. Not even a couple of mill. And expect to get a centre forward to lead the line. If we had another Sam Gallagher money lying around that would be good

And why don't we have money to spend? It's because someone near the top of the tree dropped the ball in allowing 4 first teamers worth a combined £15-£20m to leave for £0 in a 12 month period, rather than realising in good time that they weren't signing new deals so ought to be sold to realise a return on investment that could reinvested in the squad.

That same person / persons have also alienated 50% of the club's fanbase in the last decade through showing no understanding of how to run a football club in this country.

It goes back to our esteemed owners, let's not pretend that GB & JDT are the real bad guys here, they're just trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. To expect them to do that in 6 months is entirely unrealistic, yet we're still in a playoff spot & the draw for the 5th round of the FA Cup.

Give them some bloody credit people!! 

16 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

he`s failed to make an impression at barnsley,mk dons and scunthorpe,every time he`s been sent back to chelsea,he did ok in holland and belgium(roda and cercle bruges) again loans,sold to genk,then sold to troyes,initialy on loan then permanent,they now want to get rid of him,massive alarm bells going on for me,why do clubs want to offload him,he`s either worse than george hirst or has a massive attitude problem,my god he might even be worse than antony modeste🤒😅

Hang on, didn't we want our recruitment team to be creative in their scouting, to use European networks, to cast the net to find unpolished gems, in a world where bringing someone in from abroad is harder than ever for us both financially and administratively??

Here they are, doing exactly that, and are now being accused of being underwhelming and alarm bells ringing!! 

Can anyone really say he would be any better or worse for us than Geldhart or Undav?? 

Expectations of some on here need to be reeled in, unfortunately. What was it Souness said that is often quoted on here? "We have to wee with the willy we've got".  It's not GB or JDT's fault that it's got rather cold in the last decade...

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I completely disagree on your first point, and particularly on recent form. I’m not even talking about the glaring mistakes, his general play has been very poor for a while, and in certain games (Rotherham being a very recent example) he has been disgraceful. I think he’s had more games where he’s stood out as being poor than good.

Very harsh to lump Johnson in with that lot. We got a couple of good years out of him. For every Goodwillie there is a Graham, Best a Downing, Stokes a Conway, Brown an Ayala, and plenty in between.

Vale has a lot less good will than Wharton and hasn’t contributed to the same degree when he has had a chance, he’s also 4 years further on. I don’t think Wharton would make as many costly errors as Morton, but he has a poor game and he’s right back down the pecking order despite having shown more ability to control a game than any other option we have on occasion. I think Travis has a right to feel a bit aggrieved - he was rightly dropped for his poor performances, but a loanee retains his place when he’s becoming a liability. He’ll certainly think he deserves his chance again.

I didn't see Rotherham so can't specifically  comment, though it seems from what I've read that no-one covered themselves in glory there. I think he's the type of player though where a lot of his good work goes unseen whereas his errors are glaring.

Take your point re Johnson, but he certainly flattered to deceive more often than not & failed to live up to his promise. The others you mention, Graham & Conway I grant, but most will be happy see to let Ayala leave in 3 months as generally having been underwhelming, and Downing was as good in his first season as he was bad in his second.

Anyway  Wharton has been injured last few weeks, and with Buckley suspended there's been little option for JDT but to persist with him. As I've said elsewhere, hopefully the succession plan includes giving Wharton more game time 2nd half of the season.

5 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

morton was built up like another harvey elliot when he signed,it`s  turning out he`s not very good,thats why there are barbed comments,i don`t think he`s that much better than garrett or adam wharton,given the fact he`s supposed to be ahead of them in development it`s not acceptable,he`s not our player and he`s stopping the two of our players from gaining experience

I'm pretty sure that no-one from Ewood or Liverpool has ever built him up like another Harvey Elliott. Judging every loanee against Elliott is like judging every striker against Kane.

See my comment above as to why he's here & starting ahead of Morton. Wharton & Garrett both got their debuts in the EFL this season, Morton had played in the Prem & Champs League. He's  clearly further on in his development.

All this said, I would like to see us play Wharton played more this 2nd half of the season, so he can hit the ground running more next season.

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

But there are big flaws in Broughton’s logic here. Bridging the gap by replacing experienced Championship midfielders with a player with a couple of token premier league appearances and the odd second string cup game seems pretty pointless to me. Morton may well be one year further in in his development than Garrett or Wharton, but that one year is pretty insignificant when they are all miles behind Rothwell, and that 12 months of odd cameos and bench warming isn’t going to replace the experience of a Bradley Johnson.

If we’d loaned Isaac Hayden, Hamza Choudhury, Jeff Hendrick, or even Callum Styles - like other teams in the Chanpionship have - the argument of short term experience works. There are loads of Tyler Morton’s (20 year old loanees with very little first team exposure) littered throughout the Championship, but very few are as integral to their parent teams plans. Compared to Hannibal at Birmingham - who played in the World Cup and is undeniably further along in his development - Morton is used far more often. Of course, 20 year olds are the cheaper option, which will no doubt have been more of a factor than all the stuff Broughton came out with in that podcast.

Any loan should be a short term fix, and loaning a 27 year old to play week in and week out rather than Morton and giving him 90 minutes most games would not block a pathway any more or less. This loan is benefitting Liverpool and Tyler Morton far more than it is Blackburn Rovers. He doesn’t deserve to be in the team on current form, and I couldn’t give a toss about his development. Might as well let our own players accelerate their development and learn from their mistakes.

I actually think Morton would start for most teams in this division, and don't think that overall he is as bad as is being made out.

Besides, we've tried the experienced route before with the likes of Murphy, Etuhu, Best, Goodwillie, Guthrie, Wes Brown, Stokes, even Johnson himself) but they've hardly worked out as hoped, so if you're looking at a season-long bridge why not try someone fresh, young, with good pedigree who has something to prove to his parent club?

And if it was Wharton who had been making the mistakes Morton has, he'd hardly be getting an easier ride for it from the critics. Look at the criticism Vale is getting for example; if wharton comes into the team too soon & performs like Morton he'd be crucified on here and would hardly be greeted with, "at least he's one of our own". What would that do for his development??

Money is undoubtedly part of the reason behind it Morton over Choudary / Hendrick etc,, but Broughton has hardly been quiet about those limitations since he arrived has he?

14 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Essentially he's too cocky. He's much, much better than Clarkson, for example, but he makes a lot of basic mistakes (like the one for Birmingham's first goal today - that's a suicide ball) and doesn't seem to be learning from them.

Accepting the fact that Morton has made some individual errors that have proved costly (yesterday chief amongst them, it was right in front of my temp seat in the JW Upper & was suicidal), he's not alone in that.  Can I suggest to those criticising why we signed Morton that they listen to GB"s interview with the Assoc of Sporting Directors that is posted elsewhere on this forum?

It explains exactly why he was signed, which was to bridge the gap between experienced midfielders leaving at the end of last season & the likes of Wharton & Garrett coming through. He's 12 months ahead of both in his overa development & age, so a 12 month loan made sense given the budget & timescales GB & JDT had to work to, but next season will likely be founded on Wharton, Garrett, Travis& Buckley plus 1 other. To me that's rational, common sense, forward / succession planning which has been missing from this club for a decade.

Additionally, Morton himself has said on record that he wasn't expecting this many appearances, so it can hardly have been written into his deal that he gets them! The main reason for that has been the drop off-in form of Buckley & Travis, which proves that reliance on just your own (younger) players isn't always successful so loans are required to supplement that, like all other clubs at our level given the fact that established Prem clubs have about 40 senior players in their books at any one time

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy theory about penalties for lack of minutes, jobs for the boys, stats over eyes etc??

Edit: that post wasn't directed at you Exiled by the way, I realise on re-reading that it could've come across that way!!

I'm all for discussion & debate, but the bare facts are that we're paupers, with rich owners who can't or won't write blank cheques. They've spunked £180m+ away in a decade whilst reducing the club's value, but don't feel obliged to throw good money after bad to right their wrongs.

So they've gone down the sustainability & self sufficiency route. On one level that's to be applauded as we all want the club to survive & grow for next generations. Whether we like it or not, that's where we are.

So GB & JDT are working in very tight parameters. They have some budget, but have to wheel & deal to get the right blend of ins & outs, youth & experience, for now & for succession planning. That means having to be patient and wait on other clubs, and / or on the next round of cup games to pass before prem clubs release fringe players.

Folk are impatient due to the stalling under TM. Fair enough I get it, but GB & JDT are a new broom. I listened to the interview GB gave to the ASD today, he clearly knows his onions and understands how important our proud, historic club is to its town. I'm 100% certain he's doing his damndest to bring sustainable success to us. It's unlikely to be immediate, and it might not succeed at all, but I think he and JDT are the best chance we've had since 2012 to get back to being a force at the top table again.

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

I detect a pattern emerging with some of our loan business as well. We seem to be the 'guinea pigs' for young players on loan, often being the first opportunity the players get to go and play in the Championship. It seems to be rare that we bring in players who have played elsewhere on loan at this level previously.

They come here, do ok or well for a season or half a season, and then after that we seem to stand no chance of bringing them back for another spell and instead they head off to rival Championship clubs instead.

I'm thinking here of Tosin, Harwood-Bellis, Khadra, Poveda, Clarkson, Morton, Branthwaite, JPVH

It seems to suggest to me that we are content to take the gamble on these sort of lads, give them their first real opportunity at this level, then once they've come here and done well rival clubs willing to pay more  money get them later. So Khadra going to Sheff Utd/Birmingham, Harwood Bellis to Stoke/Dingles, Tosin to Fulham, next one might be JPVH to Mboro. We hardly seem to have a sniff of getting them back yet rival clubs can get them. I assume this is because having had a heavily subsidised initial spell at Rovers the costs go up considerably with parent clubs demanding far greater wage contributions.

Sorry JH but can't agree. Yes some were first time loanees but many weren't, probably like any other team at our level.

Tosin played a season on loan at W Brom the season before he joined us (& was excellent for us).

Van Hecke played a season at Heerenveen before us (and again was excellent for us).

Giles - was on loan at Cardiff before us.

Then going further back there's the likes of Tom Trybull, Barry Douglas, Greg Cunningham, Harrison Reed, Kasey Palmer. All of whom were experienced pros or had prior loans at our level before.

And the best one of all was Harvey Elliott, who admittedly was a first time loanee but boy (literally!) was he worth it!

So I'd say there's nothing to see here, just appears to be a bit of mischievous stirring on your part, if not a lack of research...

On 19/01/2023 at 17:59, Mercer said:

You are going on the transfer list.  We will invite offers.  Should one be acceptable (and anything over £8million should have been) you either accept the move or rot in the 'ressies' until your contract is up.  What do you think Brereton would have done?

If Broughton hasn't got the expertise and gravitas to deal with our owners then he shouldn't be in the feckin job.  He needed to sh1t or get off the pot.

I think you should change your name to "No Merc-y", 'cos that's what you show to anyone at Ewood who fails to smell of roses (or should that be rosé?)! 😉

On 19/01/2023 at 12:22, RoverKyle said:

They also weren't the immediate back up to the starter at those clubs. Completely understand the whole point around perceived sub par keepers getting contracts in the Prem due to the home grown quota. Merely pointing out that Steele is probably a bit better than he's made out to be on here, given that he's trusted to be the immediate back up at Brighton. I don't think Pears will ever find himself in that position.

Be careful what you predict, many on here were lamenting Raya as being unlikely to do much in his career - too small / rash / error-prone / lightweight etc, but he's turned out alright.

On 18/01/2023 at 18:01, RevidgeBlue said:

They're welcome ......... at the right price. Really isn't a patch on Raya imo.

Whether your opinion is correct or not (I think TK is as good a keeper as any in this division) how on earth does it make sense to sell Kaminski just because he isn't Raya?  We're not going to get Raya back so we should only be considering selling TK if we can identify a better replacement.

Let's not compound one decision by making another unnecessarily.