Nope.

When do you not?

I'd suggest that the point is how do we spot these criminals. Or are you suggesting that we should deport all asylum seekers, whether they're criminals or not?

You seem to be saying that the police were justified in their actions simply because the Brazilian fella ran away from them. Does that mean that it's ok to shoot in the head every potential criminal who runs away from the police? I understand that circumstances in London are different to normal at the moment and that tensions are very high. And I can understand that the only real way of stopping someone carrying a bomb before they detonate it is to shoot them in the head. What I can't understand is why they let the man get anywhere near the tube station in the first place, nor why they even gave him the opportunity to run away. Surely you have to be fairly certain that they are carrying a bomb, or at least involved in terrorist activities, before you can open fire. I've seen or read nothing to suggest that the police were even remotely certain.

But if they'd stopped him when he left his home he wouldn't have been a running target. And if he'd detonated a bomb there I'd hazard a guess that it wouldn't have caused as much harm as it would have done at a tube station. My point is that surely someone the police suspect is carrying a bomb shouldn't have been allowed to get to the tube station in the first place. Surely they'd want to apprehend him as quickly as possible. Remember that the police followed him from a house all the way to the tube station. The pieces just don't seem to fit together and, imo from what I've read and heard so far, it sounds like the police messed up big time.

You do wonder though why, if they suspected he had a bomb strapped to his chest, didn't they apprehend him long before he got anywhere near as public a place as a tube station. And I'd suggest that simply running away from a policeman isn't really a good enough reason to shoot someone 5 times in the head - especially if said policemen are in plain clothes. The whole thing sounds like it was a botch job.

My guess is that he's hurt his ankle.

97-5 at lunch!!!! Must not gloat too early.... Must not gloat too early....

Is that reported anywhere? Where you in the area and heard them yourself? Or are you talking @#/??

Did your tape recorder not work then? Yes it went well and it was nice to see some new faces there as well. However it did demonstrate that there's still an awful lot left for us to do before we can officially launch. I think Paul's hoping to knock up some minutes today.

If you read Paul's post two posts up you'll see what you have to do to get more info.

The laughable word Islamophobia makes it sound like a mild ailment - a bit like arachnophobia. The reality is that someone who wants to ban all Muslims from entering the country clearly holds deeply discrimatory and prejudiced views and is, in my opinion, beneath contempt. You can argue about the semantics of whether Phil's views are racist or anti-sematic or whatever - the fact is they show him to be just as prejudiced as a racist or anti-sematist.

Clearly I meant to say Catholics and Protestants. I apologise unreservedly and hope that it hasn't mortally offended anyone who read it. I can only hope that the world is still spinning on its axis and everyone can continue to live their lives without being too affected by my terrible mistake.

Ho, ho ho. Low blow. You sad, sad man.

Clearly the heat's getting to you Phil (must hard what with your skinhead and all) but the quote above was in reference to the attacks in London, not any of your posts. You want all Muslims banned from entering the country, no matter what their beliefs or views are. I think that's a ridiculous, discriminatory, unworkable, unfair solution that belies what you really feel, but won't admit on here. Hell, I'd have more respect for you if you told us all what you really feel rather than continually hinting at it.

1) I wasn't refering to you - I was referring to Phil's post. 2) You're a c0ck. 3) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Banning all Muslims from the country no matter what there views or beliefs isn't racist at all. It's certainly massively discriminatory, it's certainly hugely unfair, and it's certainly an unworkable, ridiculous suggestion that would only serve to make the situation worse. As for my solution - I haven't got one. There isn't an easy solution - and there certianly isn't one as simplistic as Phil's (incidentally, I don't remember reading YOUR solution Theno). The fact is that if someone is motivated enough to kill themselves in order to kill others then there's not a lot that can be done. Of course, if there are Muslim clerics inciting young people then that should be stopped. Of course, if there are illegal immigrants who are planning terrorist attacks then they should be deported / arrested / whatever. The thing we've all got to realise though is that the amount of people who feel the same way as these bombers is tiny. They are a very small minority in the Muslim community. The security services need to concentrate their efforts on wheedling these individuals out (something I'm sure they are trying to do).

Four posts in a row from Thenodrog - all slagging people off, all making little or no point at all (apart from the wonderful "I warned you" line). We all can tell there's a problem. However, changing immigration laws to stop all Muslims coming into the country is profoundly unfair, unrealistic suggestion and shows no understanding of the situation at all. Do you not think that may pi55 off a few more Muslims who are already over here and perhaps incite them to let off a few more bombs? Or do we deport all the Muslims in this country too? Where do we stop Phil? What about the Irish Catholics who may sympathise with the IRA? Get rid of them as well? Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack an egg. Oh, and that suggestion of Blue Phil's is about as close to racism as you can get. Here's the dictionary definition of racism (from the Online Cambridge Dictionary): the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races Now, no doubt Phil will argue that Muslims are not a race, rather a cultural or religious group, but he'd be arguing on a technicality and we all know it. And what about the millions of Muslims who live a peaceful, religious life just like millions of Christians and Catholics here do. To tarnish all those people with the same brush as terrorists is deeply insulting to them, not to mention totally discriminatory.

Oh, and I think you'll find that in the vast, vast majority of cases Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, and Jews do live together in peace. You get nutters in every walk of life, and the people who committed these atrocities are simply nutters.

It might be obvious in your warped mind but not in mine. When London, Manchester, and Warrington were bombed by the IRA was that because of "decades of mass, uncontrolled immigration"? No, it was down to terrorism - pure and simple. I'd suggest that the London bombing have nothing to do with immigration, but a whole lot to do with the war in Iraq and other such perceived injustices - in the opinion of these extremist Muslim groups. Of course, you could say immigration is the reason these bombers were over here in the first place. However, at the moment we don't know who set off the bombs, or whether they were illegal immigrants or not. They may have been born in this country for all we know at present.

I give you next years quote of the year Grooby winner!!! Keep on at this rate and you could get to keep the trophy.

Why don't you volunteer to become a mod then Theno? Maybe you could do better? Still, it's a lot easier to hide behind the internet and criticise - like you do about everything else.

First of all I'm not sure admin / mods can even do what you suggest - perhaps one of them can let us know? Secondly, we're desperately trying not to give the impression that BRISA is a BRFCS.com thing. Making the BRISA discussion forum public on BRFCS will just make people think it is. All anyone has to do is send an e-mail to get access to all the BRISA discussions. We'll be making everything a lot more public over the next few weeks as we get closer to holding the first BRISA public meeting.

I'd be interested to know why you think that. I'm not aware of any other ISA's in the last 20 years so I can't compare, but if we attract enough members then I don't think we'd be toothless at all. Have you signed up with admin to see all the extra info about BRISA? If not then I'd ask you, or anyone else for that matter, to do so. If you're still not impressed then let us know what we could do to impress you - or better still become actively involved in the formation of BRISA. We need all the help we can get.

Silly boy.

Bring back Bangladesh - at least they put up a bit of a fight.