7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dear me Paul, you will be struggling if you take such a high handed approach to everyone else. It is not optional not compulsory to re-sanitise your trolley at the supermarket and like the chap you've demonized above I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

I take exactly the opposite viewpoint. Maybe it is temporarily acceptable to be OCD and wash your hands 25 times a day whilst the virus is still about but in the long run it will be desperately detrimental to our overall health if everyone insists on living in a totally antiseptic environment. We'll lose all our natural immunity to bacteria and infection.

The difficulty I have is some of your posts suggest you don't believe the advice the population is being given. This makes your actions, or lack of them, a danger to others around you.

I've demonized no one, I'm not OCD and I don't wash my hands 25 times a day. I do though take precautions to avoid becoming infected with a virus which could kill me. I don't live in fear, my life is basically the same except I have made decisions about things I will no longer do.

One of these is to be close to people in a football crowd who may not have sufficient responsibility to attempt to avoid spreading Covid-19. We all have a responsibility to ourselves, our social circle and society in general - I take this very seriously. Some do, some don't.

As an aside our basic immunity to many diseases and illness is developed in childhood. It has nothing whatsoever to do with hand washing.

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Herein lies the problem.

People have to get it out of their heads that restrictions and social distancing are the norm.

They are not.

Why?

9 hours ago, rigger said:

I think that you will find that spectators will not be attending games until social distancing is removed by the government.

In which case it's unlikely fans will be in the ground for 18-24 months. Effectively game over.

On 21/05/2020 at 20:10, chaddyrovers said:

@Stuart have a look at this. 

Top-level players are within an infectious distance of each other for an average of only 88 seconds during a match. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8313191/Players-told-turn-faces-away-tackled-Project-Restart-briefing.html

Have you considered the amount of time it takes to arrange a defensive wall and for the striker to take the kick?

You're so desperate for football you believe any nonsense that appears on the web.

Your link doesn't contain any reference to 88 seconds.

30 minutes ago, rigger said:

You are right. It is a daft example.

That's right it is. It makes the point though. How are Rovers going to get 10,000 fans through the turnstiles in a safe manner?

People have to stand 2 metres apart.

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Probably shouldn’t have used you as an example Paul, as like you I’ll be back, whenever that is.

However, the point stands, I believe crowds have now peaked in this country after 30 years of growth and will now decline sharply, especially in the EFL (we were ahead of the curve on that score!).

No problem Matty, I knew it was a good post to use to make your general point. One which I fully agree with.

Replying was a good opportunity for me to explain my overall view and what I feel is a huge gap in the discussion.

As one small example. We shop in ALDI and go to Tesco for things ALDI doesn't stock. Our local Tesco often has a queue of 50-60 people which can take an hour to clear. Frequently the store is very badly stocked. We now use Morrison's - small queue, well stocked.

I know this is a slightly daft example but here goes. 10,000 fans 2 metres apart waiting to enter the ground. That is a 20km queue - yes we have more than one turnstile. I await the announcement on that one! My house is 10km from the ground.

On 21/05/2020 at 08:50, Mattyblue said:

And this is exactly why English football is in big trouble. A year + out of the ground and ‘Paul’s’ across the country, fans with decades of attending their club’s games, fans who have usually renewed their STs as a force of habit, realise that they don’t particularly miss it, then the sport in this country is over as we know it. Floating fans obviously float in and out, but you lose your core support and it’s game over.

Which in someways will lead the sport to a well overdue coming to collective senses, but could also lead to a huge number of clubs folding and our unique pyramid will be finished.

I realise some of the following may be considered off topic by some but for me it is integral to the debate.

Sorry just to be 100% clear I can see how my words were misinterpreted. The longer the DEBATE about restarting etc. the more I lose interest in the DEBATE. I will NEVER lose interest in Rovers, I will always be a Rover as will my lads. I will return to Ewood as soon as it is safe to do so.

I simply want the fans at the top of the list in this debate about restarting football. Why? In my view, and based on government action to date, it is likely large scale gatherings such as football crowds will be permitted at relatively short notice. My opinion is that it is impossible to create plans for crowd safety in a short period. Therefore the clubs should be planning for this now. Rovers need to give me the confidence it is safe to return and I do not believe the club can achieve this with, for example, four weeks notice. If we are suddenly able to attend it is essential everyone feels relatively safe to do so. If this does not happen some, like me, will wait until it is. The more a fan feels a need to wait the less likely he/she is to return. The clubs need to capitalise on the sudden feel good factor.

My life has changed for the foreseeable future. I badly miss certain activities and the physical contact of hugging family or special friends. Like millions of others I have periods of total boredom, lethargy and listlessness. I know what will lift these moods and it is not sitting amongst thousands without a high degree of safety. I was in Vietnam for nearly a month late January/February. In that time I learnt how to deal with life in a Coronavirus setting, how to live with risk. When I returned I initially received looks of bemusement from my cycling friends when I would clean the table, cutlery, etc. when we went in a cafe - within a short period I was being copied or asked to lend them my cleaning stuff!! Something like eight weeks before lockdown our lives were starting to adapt to the risk we all have to live with. Be under no misconception we will live with this risk for a very long time.

I cannot conceive of being in an airport, theatre, cinema, concert hall. I will not visit any shop which fails to protect me. There are a couple of places I will have to risk but only a couple.

It takes only a few minutes observation to understand public hygiene in this country is appalling. This is something which has always been unpleasant, today it could be the difference between life and death. Yesterday I watched a guy grab a supermarket trolley, walk straight by the sanitizer station and begin shopping. I did my very best to keep well away from and ahead of him in the supermarket. If people cannot grasp and follow basic rules now I hate to think what it will be like in six months time.

Until fans are put at the top of the list alongside these apparently oh so "important" players don't expect me to feel anything other than expendable as far as football is concerned.

I will return to Ewood but it is absolutely not "Rovers till I die" for me.

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well actually Stuart if you research it you will find they were similar articles in The Telegraph and The Guardian but their articles need subscription so why I dont from them. 

 

 

The entire Guardian paper is free online.

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

@Stuart have a look at this. 

Top-level players are within an infectious distance of each other for an average of only 88 seconds during a match. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8313191/Players-told-turn-faces-away-tackled-Project-Restart-briefing.html

Bill Shankly would have had something to say about that..........

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure where your anxiety is coming from really Paul, rightly or wrongly I fear it will be a very long time before fans are allowed back in grounds under conditions we used to consider "normal".

I'm not anxious RB. I'm very unlikely to return until fan safety is at the top of the list. Until then all the debate for me is irrelevant as without fans the game is nothing.

The longer the debate goes on about playing behind closed doors, TV monies etc. the more I lose interest. I already knew the clubs have no interest in fans. The current debate simply confirms it - again. The safety of fans needs to be at the top of the agenda because as it stands many will walk away.

Have you seen the pictures of German fans sitting in chairs in a hall watching a big screen? It's a joke.

It's interesting to read the debate here and in the wider media. In particular I'm fascinated by the fundamental view, from some commentators, that football must in someway be "saved." For me football has had more than enough money over the years to save itself, to put some sensible structure in place to secure its' longterm future but has failed to do so.

The huge element missing from the discussion is fan safety. Without fans the game cannot be saved. It's very simple.

The PL and other leagues can wring their hands all they wish over lost TV revenue and possibly having to repay part of this season's revenue. Should the season be completed and broadcast? Should next season start and broadcast? For me the answer would be play behind closed doors by all means. As for broadcast? This is highly questionable. If broadcast is permitted it should at most only be to private subscribers. To allow broadcast to any public venue creates the potential for spread of Covid-19, even broadcast to private homes creates issues.

Then we have fan safety at live games in the ground. It doesn't seem to be a consideration in any discussion. Life has changed and there will be an element of risk in everything we do for the foreseeable future. The level of risk an individual is prepared to take will vary. I know the areas of my life which have already changed, one of them is not visiting anywhere where I feel I cannot control my immediate environment. At Ewood I can't do this. To return to the ground I need to be sure I, and my son, are adequately distanced from others.

I would be reasonably comfortable sitting with the people I've sat with for years bar one. This person sits next to my son. During games this fan trims, files and cleans his finger nails. Disgusting at anytime. Today it makes me wonder about his general outlook on personal hygiene and Coronavirus? I can ask to move and then be surrounded by people I've never seen before. Safe? Very questionable.

Returning to Ewood has a huge question mark over it for me. My son won't understand if we don't go when football returns. I have to make a judgement as to whether or not it's safe for either of us to attend. My gut feeling currently is to stay away.

I don't care if this season is finished. I don't care about the "integrity" of the league (integrity? You're having a laugh. There's no integrity in football). I don't care if there's promotion or relegation. I don't care when next season starts.

I DO care about being safe in a football ground and whether or not it is safe to broadcast football.

Of course no one is discussing this. Why would they? We are only fans.

As for those desperate to see the game restart with the "let's see what happens in Germany etc," "the clubs are paying for testing etc". It takes my breath away. Try thinking about the ordinary people and how to minimise the risk to their lives. Restarting football will do nothing at all to help this.

20 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Ok, I'll bite. 

How is it selfish?

I'm not asking anyone to bite but expressing my view. As I see it there is no way to describe how difficult it must be for someone to carry out the act. It seems to me the drivers are to end their misery and to end a skewed idea it will protect those around them. This is what makes me feel it's selfish as the reverse is true with regard to those left behnd.

I wasn't going to comment on why I've some understanding of mental health issues but I've changed my mind.

I know four people with diagnosed bi polar. One chose me, no one else, to confide in. I don't know why. I knew nothing about the disease. For four months I was the only person who knew. More people know now and the person is, nearly three years later, well on the road to recovery. During those four months, when I was sworn to secrecy, I tried to understand and learn what to do from zero knowledge. My every action was about trying to help and equally I worried constantly if any of my actions were contributing to or worsening the illness. It was a torture for me. Only my friend knows how it was for her.

Second my best friend in life, that's in 65 years, suffers from this terrible illness. The illness is controlled through medication but cannot be increased further. I know through everything I see things over the last two years have driven my friend to the point whereby I no longer understand how life is being held together. This is the strongest person I know. I feel I do know the one thing which stops my friend totally falling apart. I worry every hour of every day as I try to find ways to help. Things are at a point in recent months where every effort fails.

So I feel I understand something of what those with mental illness face. I also have real understanding of the impact this has on those who love and care for them the most.

Finally I'll add that despite my best effort this post can be read as though it is about me. It isn't. It's a probably very poor attempt to explain why I understand a little because it can only ever be a little - which saddens me every day.

22 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

A vile and misinformed comment . Your lack of understanding regarding mental health is astounding . Also a complete lie that you haven’t heard of someone . 

In what way is my remark misinformed?

As for a lack of understanding on mental health issues you are completely wrong as it's something I have much real life experience of.

Why would I lie about whether or not I know who Caroline Flack was? Can you explain why I should know who she is? I'm aware of Love Island but have never watched it. I've very occassionaly seen X factor.

It's very sad for those connected with the individual when someone dies. We shouldn't lose sight of this.

It's being widely reported Caroline Flack committed suicide. A very selfish act.

I wonder more and more about the cult of the celebrity and why so many people have to live their lives through others. I had never heard of her before.

I thought I would ask the question in ICBINF because several long-standing members visit here. It's the main reason I popped back on BRFCS.

I have heard, stress heard, that Jordan died recently. Does anyone know if this is true? I know he was seriously ill several years ago but haven't heard anything for years.

If this is true we have all lost a huge Rovers fan.

On 03/01/2020 at 10:28, only2garners said:

That's another area we have raised a few times at Forums Stuart. I'm particularly concerned about the situation on Livesey Branch Road where the traffic coming down to the ground is not controlled and we now have cars parked there on the hill parked half on the pavement. This means that at the end of games fans walk up the road as it's single file on the right hand pavement facing traffic coming down the hill, some of it at stupid speeds. it needs the council to restrict match day parking on the hill.

I can understand the concern o2g and the unrestricted parking has made the situation more difficult. I think though fans have swarmed up LBR for many, many years and can't say I've noticed the situation worsening.

That's not to say things should not be done to improve the situation.

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Safety for fans leaving the ground on foot is paramount. Cars that manage to get away into the crowds are quite anti-social with passive aggressive clutch-down-revving-the-accelerator. One day someone will be knocked down.

At £10 a game the club should be able to keep fans occupied for 20 minutes after the game to stop them being sat impatiently in their cars.

While I agree with you Stuart this is actually a comment on a small minority of impatient moronic drivers.

A big screen with a re run of match highlights would be good. It won't happen though.

I don't know which is car park H but it's the same situation in the DE car park. The gates are closed until the away coaches have departed. Usually 25 minutes after the final whistle.

Goodness knows what away support find to do that takes them 20 minutes to get on a bus!! The buses don't leave until they are all ready to go in convoy.

22 hours ago, Vinjay said:

I didn't know where to put this but apparently it costs more for travel insurance if you have Aspergers. Of course you could just ignore it but what happens then if you break your arm or whatever? Would that invalidate the claim if they find out about aspergers and didn't declare? What the hell does Aspergers have to do with physical injuries? I'm considering not bothering with the insurance at all (as I didn't last time visiting the US) but it was cheap enough to lean towards getting it. I don't take kindly to being ripped off though.

What happens is if you fail to declare a pre-existing condition your insurance is invalid.

Who says you're being ripped off? Look around there are a plenty of insurance companies which specialise in offering cover to those with specific issues. Try World First.

On the other hand if you want to risk hospital bills for $$$$ that's your choice.

10 hours ago, Mr. E said:

Wow. This is a straight-out, limbs-stretched wide knockout. An absolute knockout.

We have to gamble, we have to try and find the untested, unknown diamond in the rough in January and hope for a miracle to replace Dack. There is no alternative. No one - not one staff member, not one fan can believe the current team without Dack can challenge for promotion. 

I do.

22 minutes ago, only2garners said:

I think this could work as an alternative to occasional cheap games and packages. As Ossydave says it would make ST pricing complicated if it was introduced for every game.

I also think it would need to be in blocks of 1,000 or 2,000. We only managed 7,000 last night at £10. I assume we would need to offer some discount to away fans as well?

I think I'll add this to the next Forum agenda for the club's view.

Yes. I'm thinking of a promotional approach as per last night's £10 offer.

I see no reason to alter STs as these are already outstanding value.

44 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

And how would season tickets be priced?

 

My posted stated "tickets, promotion and sales." Sorry if I wasn't clear but the last few pages have been about the one-off promotion for the Wigan game.

It has no bearing on season tickets.

I don't know if this has been suggested before or not. Last night we discussed tickets, promotion and sales.

An idea we came up with similar to how easyJet et al sell plane tickets. Figures for example only

First 5,000 @ £10

Second 5,000 @ £15

Third 5,000 @ £20

The rest at full price

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Boxing day is easier for some fans than other for various reasons but also half season tickets holders will kick in. 

 

Half STs included Wigan.

46 minutes ago, philipl said:

I think we all expect a thin attendance against Wigan but if we win and produce a decent performance on TV then we should be looking at 20,000+ on Boxing Day to kick start much better Ewood gates next year.

Going to be very important to take a large raucous following to Huddersfield. 

I was at Ewood on Friday buying extra tickets for the BBE. We wanted undercover NO2/3 for both games.

For Wigan it was a single and I got middle of NO3.

For Birmingham, two together, all that was available was NO5. If you look online it's the same right across the BBE with only the front 6/7 rows showing other than singles, the exception being NO5 outer. The lady selling me my tickets said, without me asking, Birmingham is a very popular game.

If you like at the BBE for Wigan it's a similar situation.

I've no idea what attendance this will translate to but suggest the gate may not be as gloomy as some predict. I don't have time to count individual seats, I'll leave that to someone else.