5 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

Have you tried Greenwoods?

??

The OP is right the quality of merchandise is awful. I can find nothing I would wear.

By chance last year I found a really good flat cap. I bought one and lost it. I went back for another and was told "Yes, they've been really popular but we only had 25. We're not getting any more." This was a great piece of merchandise that could be worn anywhere. I even went back this winter. In stock? No.

It is literally 25 years since I last bought something I was happy to wear. Rovers need to understand there are customers who want to buy things which are not overtly football related.

On 28/11/2019 at 20:56, Stuart said:

My only worry with picking the Wigan game is that it will attract a lot of scrotes. Hopefully the fact that it’s an evening ko will make it more difficult but I’d expect trouble.

Other than that it’s a a local derby right before Christmas that is very affordable at a time when people are skint. Hopefully a big crowd and a great performance to kick off the Christmas period. Let’s hope the weather isn’t awful.

On 29/11/2019 at 08:44, Stuart said:

Don’t you dare, Paul. 

My post quite clearly said “My only worry with picking the Wigan game is ...”

See your post above. You said "scrotes" and you're now trying to backtrack. This is a thread about Rovers attendances not away followings coming to Ewood.

You, along with many others, have been calling for cheap tickets. The club has made a sensible offer which probably mainly reflects the time of year and KO.

Which begs the question of who you deem it appropriate to have in the ground?

9 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

Think he thinks the Oxford crowd likely to turn up for the Wigan game? Not a chance. Strange comparison if intended.

Not at all. I was interested to understand why for Wigan at £10 we get scrotes while against Oxford the match is held up as a beacon for what can be achieved with low pricing. Given the behaviour at the Oxford game I'm left wondering.

As above, and to answer your earlier question, it comes down to the fact that for some fans the club can do nothing right even when the club does precisely what fans have been calling for.

It leaves me wondering what on Earth people expect. Some are never going to be happy.

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

Woah woah woah. Poor post? I stand by that fact that Wigan have a set of scrotes who follow them on cheap tickets. Paul turned that into a barb against Rovers fans.

No Stuart you said "it will attract a lot of scrotes." You didn't make clear it's only Wigan fans you define as scrotes. The wording of your post and that this is a thread about Rovers attendances suggested to me you were commenting about home support or at the least both sets of fans.

I'm not turning anything in to a barb. I'm merely pointing out we have fans who don't want a certain type of person, a scrote, at Ewood. We have other fans who object to wealthy, privileged ST holders. This leaves me to wonder just who a section of our support would deem welcome at Ewood?

The bulk of our fan base is ST holders, the wealthy and privileged. A joke of a definition given the demographic which is so frequently used to illustrate the issues around ticket prices.

What it all boils down to is the club can't do right for doing wrong with a section of our support. Something you have perfectly illustrated by your concern it will attract a lot of scrotes.

Balance went out of the window a long time ago.

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Poor post by Stuart, Paul. Yes the Oxford game was a free for all but time it was put to bed. We can all quote extremes but we know what acceptable behaviour is. Lets leave it there.

I quite agree the Oxford game should be put to bed. I am though interested why Wigan at £10 attracts scrotes and Oxford, apparently so far, didn't.

The call for cheap tickets, which I don't have a problem with, is being deemed undesirable as it may attract scrotes.

I'm interested to understand how the club can win on ticket pricing? Too cheap and undesirable fans are attracted. Too expensive and, from what I recall, only wealthy, privileged season ticket holders can attend. Those ST holders I recall are viewed as preventing other fans from attending because ST holders are "privileged."

Will we soon be asked to attend interview before being able to buy a ticket?

I know what this all boils down to.

Just now, Stuart said:

My only worry with picking the Wigan game is that it will attract a lot of scrotes. Hopefully the fact that it’s an evening ko will make it more difficult but I’d expect trouble.

Other than that it’s a a local derby right before Christmas that is very affordable at a time when people are skint. Hopefully a big crowd and a great performance to kick off the Christmas period. Let’s hope the weather isn’t awful.

I'm not entirely sure by what you mean by "scrotes" but the dictionary definition is contemptible. I'm not suggesting this is what you mean.

The point this raises in my mind is the Oxford game which is often held up as an example of the crowd we could attract with sensible pricing. Oxford was £10.

From the JWL I observed what I feel was poor and unacceptable behaviour from large numbers of fans invading the pitch from the DE. For example fans invading the pitch which is illegal, parents encouraging their children on to the pitch and some parents even carrying young children on to the pitch. The extent of this pitch invasion was such that my son and I were denied, for the second time by Rovers fans, the opportunity to celebrate promotion with the team.

If the worry is £10 against Wigan will attract "scrotes" how should those at the Oxford game be described? If £10 versus Wigan is going to attract "scrotes" why would the £10 some feel should be charged for many other games attract any fewer "scrotes."

Is it being suggested we only want to attract fans capable of acceptable behaviour? If so who is defining what is and is not acceptable behaviour?

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

I think it’s more that ‘possession’ as a stat is nonsense. Teams have been more than happy to let us play keepball for weeks as long as we do nothing useful with it.

Let’s hope Mowbray has turned a corner.

Yes, you're right it is the 'possession' stat which is nonsense and also very subjective. Corners, fouls, shots etc. are difficult to argue with.

As for Tony? We shall see.

8 hours ago, Lihamylly said:

37/63 possession and 7 vs 16 in goal attemps and like against Barnsley, we were the home team. Our new strategy is to be sneaky bastards? ?

Which only proves what nonsense stats are. Having been at Ewood last night I'd have put poessesion at 50/50 or perhaps 45/55. Brentford as far as I can recall had four shots on target - one hit crossbar, one very close to the top corner with Walton beaten, one saved by Walton, one kicked off the line. Equally Rovers had four chances and scored with the best move of the game - our best goal in a very long time.

An excellent and absorbing game in which both sides played very well. In truth I didn't want to go but last night proved, again, a simple truth I've always known - as a fan you just have to keep turning up. It's impossible to predict when your team will be awful and when they will be very good.

We were deservedly the better side last night against a very good Brentford side.

11 hours ago, WIR Second Coming said:

It has come to something when half the people you speak to about your beloved club want them to lose tomorrow so there can be a change of wastrel at the wheel.

But let's face it, with the Goons & Loons in charge, it isn't going to change very much at all, until they are gone.

Sadly, I'm amongst those that would prefer Rovers to get a good hiding tomorrow, so that at least there will be some logic and momentum for a new man at the helm. Unfortunately I'm also amongst those that believe the people in charge at Ewood couldn't pick a winner if they had a bloody time machine....

 

 

10 hours ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Seconded.

In your first post you want Rovers to get a "good hiding"

In the second post one hour later you "Seconded" Stuart's post "I want Rovers to win tomorrow. And every other game"

I can't help feeling your posts are contradictory.

Another site I regularly visit allows users an ad free version at a cost of £12pa. The site raises more money this way than through clicks. I'm happy to contribute this way.

Is this an option for BRFCS? I never have and will never click through as I view it a security risk. This applies to any web advertising.

The ads are always out of date. I booked a trip to Vietnam this week. What do I see? Vietnam ads. Pointless

I won't buy from The Terrace. I see nothing of interest or quality.

38 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Fair enough.

IMHO, at £10 PNE would definitely sell out ANY allocation.

With large numbers of away fans, home fans would respond.

It would easily be our biggest gate of the season.

Let's hope the club take the initiative and we find out.

22 hours ago, Stuart said:

Sarcasm?

Anywho... 22,000. That would be a fantastic total for a January fixture, and our highest Championship gate since Boro (Christmas 2014).

A £10 PNE ticket would I suspect bring about a similar gate to the Oxford game. (27k)

Conversely, if it did nothing for the gate then it would prove Waggott right and we could have no further complaint about £40 tickets. (Although we all know that the sole purpose of that was/is to sell bundles/STs).

I see no sarcasm in my response. I agreed it would be a good opportunity to finally settle the discussion on ticket incentives or pricing. Personally I believe the Oxford game was a recent unique set of circumstances. I don't believe £10 tickets will bring the crowds flocking back to Ewood. I've explained my reasoning too many times to make it worth repeating and I'm sure you will have read these.

I think a home gate for PNE at £10 would be 13/14000. Originally I didn't bother to explain my logic but here it is. I'm not sure of the accuracy of my numbers as I read so many different ones on here but I think the following is reasonable. We have +/- 8600 ST holders and 2-3000 walk ons which gives us the +/- 11500 home gate which seems to be fairly consistent this season. I feel a £10 offer would attract +/- 2500 which would put the home gate at 13/14000. If we are still 16th with one win in six it's hardly going to galvanise folk in to going to Ewood. PNE at home isn't a big deal for many. Yes, to you, to me it's a local derby but then we are there every week and see it differently.

Would PNE bring 8000? If they are still top of the table, playing well and a chance to put one over a local rival I think it's highly likely 8000 or so would turn up.

Yes, 22000 would be an excellent January gate but this was not your initial point nor is it the one I replied to. You had been referring to the Oxford game and suggesting PNE at £10 "and put the debate to bed for once and all" which implies, for me, you think there would be a very significant increase in home attendance. I don't, simple as that.

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Surely Tesco Steve will roll the dice again with the nobbers and bundle it up. £48 walk on price and no mistake .Every little helps.☹️

Well I hope not as it would ruin what could be a great afternoon.

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

He should make the PNE game £10 a ticket and put the debate to bed once and for all...

Yep. That would be a good plan. I suspect I know the outcome though. I'd put money on the home numbers being no more than 13000, possibly 14000. If PNE are still challenging as they are today I think they would shift 8000.

17 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

missing the point.

you still have all those things such as seat etc guaranteed with your membership. You have a members card just like now. it autorenews annually so even simpler. Nothing to remember at all.

You pay the same price per game as every other fan. £15. i.e. ALL fans equal.

You can see I agreed with £15/game for everyone which is alreadty available to anyone who buys an ST!

Missing the point? You used the term "membership" and described season tickets as "outdated," saying they should be outdated. Initially you did not mention this membership would carry all the same benefits as being a season ticket holder. In another post you said the following:

"Come on Mr Waggott, show your leadership and be brave. It is no longer 1970 in our great town. We need 18,000 average gates and your task is to deliver that. Think outside of this box I have to type in. We need to innovate our whole approach to selling our product to our (potential) customers."

"As with everything in life, the innovative forward thinkers will lead the way in change. Huddersfield as one example have taken this route to answer your question."

From what I now understand the existing season ticket would be replaced by a membership that carries with it all the existing benefits of an ST. In other words change the name of the product. There would be a change from the current payment schedules from the eight or ten months, I don't know how long it is, direct debit to a 12 month payment schedule. Other than reducing the price to £15 for everyone (already available via an ST) can you explain the innovative out of the box thinking? I'm unable to see it. From what I can gather it would be membership holders who make one annual payment who become the wealthy, elitist super fans you chose to deride and dismiss because they are "Opportunities for the few keeping the many away from Ewood (and other grounds)" Given we have 8600 ST holders and 2-3000 walk ons I'm wondering who "the few" are? My impression is "the few" make up +/- 70% of the gate. Are you suggesting that we have 8600 ST holders 20000 have decided not to attend? The bulk of the Ewood crowd has always been ST holders.

You favour auto renew. This is a con which has significant benefits for the supplier and none for the consumer. Are you unaware of how upset people get when they realise they have signed a "continuous authority" and suddenly find they've paid for something they no longer want. Personally I wouldn't go near anything which auto-renewed. The whole point of auto-renew from a business perspective is to attempt to catch out the consumer. Give it a year and there would be uproar on here when fans discover they have been auto-renewed and can't get out of it.

19 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I think the point that @OldEwoodBlue is making is a very simple one: 

£15 per ticket is too much for a lot of people.

What has got his nose out of joint - and as always it’s the retaliator who gets a yellow card - is that the answer to that statement seems to be:

Tough, go and do something else that is within your budget because I’m happy with the current set up.

@Paul I get that you are aggrieved at the perceived tone but equally your post talks a lot about your own circumstances without considering others’. You just believe that your post is more polite while others take offence that their affordability concerns are not shared by fellow fans.

I can't comment as to whether or not £15 is too much for some people. I simply don't know though I'm quite capable of understanding there households where income is so low £15 is a problem. Finding the right words here is difficult but I'd suggest if the household budget is very tight whether the ticket price is £10 or £15 is unlikely to make a difference.

What I cannot understand is just how the club is meant to gain income if we go below £15? There is absolutely no evidence the 18000 OldeWoodBlue suggests will come are going to. Please don't drag up Oxford - we all know the debate and it distracts from the season long issue.

I have not given out a yellow card!!!

It was not me who suggested "tough go and do something else."

It's not a perceived tone Stuart. Those of us who chose to buy an ST upfront have been described as "elitist," "wealthy," "super fans." I'd suggest there are a large number of fans at Ewood who don't match that description. I suggest @OldEwoodBlue goes on the BBE, identifies some ST holders and tells them that is his view. How he gets on will be interesting.

What I did was to explain my personal circumstances and why I need an ST. Allowing those who want an ST, regardless of the payment method, doesn't mean I disregard the needs or wants of others. We have 20,000 empty seats,  there is plenty of room to accommodate many different requirements.

It is OEB who disregards the needs of others. Along the length of the JWL we have disabled fans with a variety of needs. There carers sit nearby and I presume have STs. These people, like me, need the security of knowing where they will sit. As an aside it can be extremely stressful for some when there routine is disrupted. My own son will be unhappy if I simply swap seats with him - I'm not joking.

The only remarks I make about ticket prices are an ST is very good value. I've made no remarks to suggest I don't care about affordability for others. What I would suggest is if one's disposable income is so tight that £15 is a problem the individual might question whether or not he/she should attend at all. Dropping to £10 doesn't really make a difference, possibly £5 would. All I can say on this is if I only had £15 to spare I wouldn't be spending it at Ewood.

@OldEwoodBlue

If everyone is paying £15 or whatever I'm OK with this provided my ST does not increase. I still believe an ST holder who pays up front should receive a good deal but in the interest of filling the ground I'll ignore it.

I'm struggling with the view holding a season ticket makes me an elitist, wealthy, super fan. I put aside money every month to cover all my one off household expenses. This ranges from the water bill, car insurance, Christmas through to season tickets and a host of other things. I fully understand there are people who for one reason or another cannot or do not wish to budget in this way.

If there are no season tickets we will probably stop going. Why?

1. My son is disabled. I need guaranteed seats with a good line of vision. Ideally these are aisle seats approximately on the halfway line. I need to be as sure as possible no one will stand up in front of my lad. I need as few steps to the seats as possible

2. Our current STs guarantee this

3. I do not want to have to remember to buy tickets every home game

4. If there is some form of "guarantee your seat" as with cup games. I do not want this. I'm too busy to remember.

5. I do not want to worry about my tickets turning up in the post

If you want to piss off 8600 fans by describing them as wealthy, elitist super fans you've certainly achieved it with this one. It's nice to know after 37 years of having an ST, in that time I was often buying four, I've never really been welcome in the ground in the eyes of some fans.

I find your posts in this tone quite appalling. It seems you have a severe problem with people who chose to run their lives differently or hold other opinions.

I suggest you have a long hard think and decide if this is reasonable behaviour.

@Stuart but do you really feel on some sort of £15 deal we would get bumper crowds for attractive fixtures?

More generally I see it like this. I don't suggest the club should give up but I simply can't see how anything price related will have a serious impact. Other than ST holders I no longer know anyone who even thinks about going to Ewood. £5 or £10 special offer? 2-3000 for one game perhaps but then a conversion to regular attendance? I just can't see it happening.

I've explained my reasons many times. It would be boring to repeat them. The hard truth is we've lost 10,000 from the gate and nothing other than PL football will bring them back.

Personally I have serious doubts even  PL football would make a huge difference. I would argue the one chance Rovers have would be to market STs in such a way as to make entrance to watch Liverpool, City, etc a very attractive proposition. Palace, Watford, Bournemouth? Hardly sets the pulse racing for many does it?

15 hours ago, Ozz said:

No I was mocking the suggestion that while £45 for three tickets was good , Rovers should offer installments! 

Frankly if that offer is not good enough then one should consider an alternative hobby. 

 

Its £12? to get on Chorley now!

Yes, I thought you were Ozz but wasn't entirely sure. No it's £15 at Chorley, the same as the per game ST price at Ewood.  £15 for Chorley - I discovered that when I went to the Stockport game. Not sure what to make of it, I didn't mind a tenner but £15 seems to push it too far. Much the same argument as some put forward about Ewood prices but the football is three divisions higher let alone the facilities.

9 hours ago, Ozz said:

Or an even greater take up if it could be paid in 45 weekly installments  of a pound.

 

I can't decide if this is a serious suggestion or not? It works if a fan buys one or two offers. Imagine it's a roaring success. 

£1/week. The club, bouyed by initial success, continues the offer through the season and an individual decides to take up all the offers.

23 home games

23/3 = 7.6 deals. Call it 7 deals for easy maths. By the end of the season the individual is paying £7/week BUT this cost rolls on and on till approximately March of the following season - obviously decreasing as time passes.

BBE season ticket is £349

£349/45  = £7.75/week

Riverside season ticket £319 which £7.08/week

Offers can be dressed up in many different fashions but there is no getting away from the reality an ST is the best value offer we have.

Possibly the club should look at payment methods. The season is 40 weeks long. Fans could be given the opportunity to pay £8.72/week or ten payments of £34.90. How many people are still paid weekly? I've no idea.

There is a cost to the club. Direct debits, standing orders etc. come at a cost. Administration costs as well.

There are two possible solutions to attendances. Significantly reduced prices which I personally don't think will work or PL football.

Everything else is short-term window dressing which ultimately has little impact. Fill the ground for three games and then what????

£15/game is also marginally less than the vast majority of the crowd will pay. For me I couldn't care less about that but it may be the start of a rocky road?

Just now, Stuart said:

It wasn’t clear that your pro rata was as a senior citizen just a long-standing season ticket holder.

But in any case, should seniors automatically get a discount on luxury items which a ST is? You don’t get a cheaper price on a smart phone. This goes back to days when senior citizens were scraping by on meagre state pensions. More and more pensioners are now on very good private pensions and have enough cash to go on month long holidays several times a year. My Facebook feed is full of them.

But I digress.

The maths was to compare the subsidy you would pay at a flat ‘cheap’ adult price compared to the subsidy others are already paying towards your lower cost ticket today.

Whether or not seniors should get a discount on luxury items is not relevant and nothing to do with me. I don't ask for it, the club offers and I accept. Yes you're right it does go back a long way.

I'm afraid I still don't follow your maths. It's often complicated and whether I follow it or not doesn't really matter. The key point is no other fan is subsidising me or any other senior. We pay what the club asks of us. My point is simple it is wrong if the club reduces prices to attract returning fans and does not pass on the same reduction to existing ST holders. Can you justify this? I cannot think of a single reason why someone coming back after 10 years, for example, should get a better deal than the thousands who have stood by the club in that time.

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

Nothing more to add yer honour

???

@Stuart I think you are taking the sentence you have highlighted and applied it to the following paragraph.

To be clear my position is this. If the club were to cut the price of match day tickets then as an ST holder I would expect my ST to reduce pro rata. I have yet to read an argument which justifies long-standing ST holders not benefitting to the same Ievel as other fans.

If the club decide to sell ALL season tickets at £249 I have no problem with that even though I would be paying £34 more than I do today.

I'm afraid I don't follow your maths in the second paragraph. In the JWL a full ST is £349 and a senior £215. I'm not sure what your other figures are saying.

Seniors receiving lower prices is embedded in our society. I get a discount at the barbers, on the train, cinema, everywhere. It's not a subsidy it's what businesses chose to do.

6 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

The ultimate answer to increasing attendances is not in the walk ons. It is in getting regular ST holder numbers up.

We have 8600 ST holders and 2000-3000 walk ons.

e.g. Huddersfield have 18000 ST holders and only 2000 matchday tickets available.

The fact that their walk on tickets are limited ensures they are in demand and often sell out.

We need to be aiming for these exact numbers.

 

ST holders should generally be supportive of every effort to get more bodies in the ground and improve the experience you get for your ST money ?

i.e. the value for money of your ST goes up pro rata if the ground is full and has a great atmosphere ?

It isn't a race to the bottom Paul.

 

 

I've had a brief look at the Huddersfield website re tickets. It looks very positive and well marketed. The difference between an ST at £10.49/game and a match day ticket at £30 is massive. At £249 the ST is a no brainer. If the object is simply to fill the ground it has worked.

There doesn't appear to be any differential pricing by stand. If Rovers did the same thing all I can say is not a single fan would have the right to complain - at all. Would we do it? I just don't know but I do wonder if it would bring in another 8-10,000 fans. I feel the reasons people stay away go much deeper than price.

I don't accept your argument re improving my match day experience because there are more fans in the ground. I'm supportive of anything Rovers do to increase sales. Yes more fans would improve the atmosphere. I cannot be expected to pay for that.

However I cannot see any reason why as an ST holder of 37+ years who has stuck with the club throughout the last ten years I should not receive a good deal pro rata with the ticket pricing. There has been plenty of chat on here about Rovers upsetting fans by moving them etc. If the club want to upset me then cutting prices and failing to pro rata that to ST holders will do it. I am not prepared to pay more, pro rata, to effectively subsidise those who have chosen to stay away for ten years.

If the club had a similar policy to Huddersfield and every ST holder got in for, say, £10 I could happily live with that. £10 would be a slight price increase for me. As a senior my ST is £215 but my lad pays £349.