I find it hard to understand how anyone can interpret as anything other than if supporters want a JW Upper ST they are available to buy:

"there will be tickets for people up there who want to buy on a season ticket basis."

But then why am I surprised? We've had a summer of the club being criticised for not selling STs when the club needs the cash flow. Now the club has looked at Social Distancing with an eye to managing costs by opening a limited number of stands. I can only presume the fans asking for ST sales to ease  cash flow will be unhappy the club is attempting to control costs.

Change has to be accepted to defeat this virus.

@Parsonblue it would be a real blow to see a long-term supporter such as yourself leave. Can I urge you to read the LT link again. On the basis of this article I would expect to buy a JW Upper ST. I'm considering moving there from the JWL as I feel Social Distancing will possibly be better observed in this area.

I don't know who or how this rumour began but it's not based on any known facts.

30 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

There’s a free article limit on there, but there’s a way around it regardless.

Ah. Thanks.

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It does. 

 

Well I very rarely read the LT. I clicked the link and read the article without any restrictions. It has free access.

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Waggott on season tickets and why they havent put them on sale, where people will sit, what happens if we have another lockdown and fans arent allowed in

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18709546.rovers-season-tickets-prices-plans-ifollow-streaming/

Well I'm happy with all of this. I would like to have seen it earlier but to my mind it's based in reality and not the fantasy world some clubs live in.

For me the thing which is missing is the opportunity to buy an iFollow pass for all away games. £10 a shot is expensive but we will be buying access for Saturday.

7 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Why put a link to a site that has restricted access? For those stupid enough to subscribe to this rag, they will use this site.

It doesn't have restricted access.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Essentially those donations with season ticket privelidges down the line are the same thing! People would know that there is uncertainty. Even factoring in a quite frankly idiotic naivety should someone not realise that already, but it could be transparently stated in the release. You are making out that they are being tricked into it. And as if the club are purposely going to take the money and run. 

I'm sorry you don't understand the difference. It is quite simply wrong to sell something which you cannot guarantee to supply. A donation is something completely different. If I buy something I expect to receive it, if I choose to donate on the understanding I MIGHT get an ST that's another proposition.

By all means state the terms and conditions. I've no problem with that but what we have here is fans criticising the club for not selling STs when it is abundantly clear the club have no idea what they can or cannot offer.

There is no business logic to incurring all the costs of selling STs when there is a strong possibility they will have to be refunded incurring yet more cost.

It's only a few weeks ago fans criticised the club for not offering refunds now fans want the club to sell tickets to yet more games which they may not watch live. It makes no sense.

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But the fact is, you wont buy a season ticket until you know what you are getting, which is totally understandable. Other people are willing knowing full well that things are up in the air, not naive to that. Why is it immoral to allow them to do so?

Are you really asking this question? Why is it immoral to sell something you may not be able to supply? Does this really need an answer?

I offered a solution weeks ago. Supporters who want to support their club financially should be able to do so. Clubs should accept donations for the value of a season ticket from individual fans. Those fans would be entitled to claim a free ST if or when they go on sale.

What is unacceptable is the notion of selling a ticket for a match which might not take place live to spectators.

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Paul, what is the problem with signing people up initially to a nominal direct debit for a £1 p.m. initially so that we're ready to go when the Government finally make a decision on crowds and Rovers know exactly what they can and can't do? Then amend the amount upwards as appropriate.

That nominal sum already paid could be easily reimbursed against later on in the season once crowds are let back in, against next season or in the form of a credit at the Club shop or something.

I'd say we'd be unlikely to run into capacity issues (unlike most Clubs) but even if we do, let fans in on a rotation basis as mentioned above. I really can't see the issue and any excuse for not selling anything from the Club's point of view.

I agree with the first paragraph. I would sign up for that. Is it happening anywhere else? All I read is Rovers fans kicking the club because we haven't sold twice the capacity. It's not a rational discussion just an excuse to berate the management.

Thinking about the second point I wouldn't be concerned over losing £1/month. I'll hand over £10 today if it puts me in the queue but I'm not shelling out £400 on the promise of jam tomorrow.

Will we have capacity issues? I feel it's impossible for any fan to gauge. Capacity will be determined by so many factors it really is impossible to guess at but I do feel most will get a seat IF we are allowed back in. I doubt this will be before March.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I think the likelihood of the club going under in the next year whilst being higher than normal of course is still very unlikely in regards to taking the precaution of not risking selling season ticket holders at all. But surely that argument would lead to never putting them on sale rather than not at this very moment anyway? 

Supporters of a football club do have a different relationship to most customers with a business.

I dont doubt your clear hatred of the owners, its one I share. It just seems so unlikely that supporters will not receive any reimbursement at all for their money due to an imminent possibility of the club going under.

I feel there is a strong possibility the club will go under. There is a very real possibility the owners will have to fund everything with very little income to help with this. We all want to go back. I will buy two STs as soon as it is clear what I'm buying. The reality though is very few, if any of us, will be back in the ground before March. Will the owners support this situation? I think the chances are at best 50/50 - if anything Covid-19 is the smokescreen which allows them to get out.

I agree my relationship with the club is totally different to that with any other business but the owners changed all that. If they want my money I need guarantees.

You argue supporters should buy STs to protect workers jobs. Where else do you advocate I do this? I'm afraid you're dodging the question.

@roversfan99I fully understand your points especially those relating to fans wanting to support their club financially. I USED to do this myself when the club needed or deserved my money. Today we have owners who have thrown £120-150m down the drain in ten years. There is absolutely no way I'm giving those owners my money without a guarantee of what the situation will be.

I have a question for you. You seem to have no moral objection to Rovers selling STs for games which fans may not be able to attend. Potentially the club could go under with fans having no recourse to a refund. ST holders would be way down any creditors list.

Please can you tell me what other things you are prepared to buy for say £400 with no guarantee you will receive what you have purchased and no option for a refund?

I would also like to ask what other businesses you are prepared to give your money to in order to save jobs with no guarantee you'll receive any product?

10 hours ago, A Northern Horde... said:

Bradford City have been selling ST's at £150 a pop.

Their allowed Ground capacity is set to be around 7,000...... They have sold around 14,000.

Go figure.

10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So how are Bradford City going to decide who gets to attend or not? 

a question no one has answered so far can't they don't know how to solve this problem

A question I asked weeks ago with absolutely no reaction. A clear demonstration of why Rovers are right not to be selling STs until the situation is clear.

There is no way it is morally responsible to sell tickets for a match or matches a fan may not be able to attend. Anyone who thinks differently is living in another reality.

As an aside anyone attending a yoga or pilates class will find there has to be two metres distancing between each individual. Translated to a football stadium regardless of its' capacity that would represent a huge drop in capacity.

A seat is approximately 45cm wide. If everyone has to have a one metre spacing that means removing 2 out of every 3 seats in a row and the row in front or behind.......and Rovers should be trying to sell? Ha!

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No vaccine and attending games will never be the same. No friends sat together or full stadiums. 

We need a vaccine and quick. 

How are we years away from a vaccine? 

Oxford university seems to think they will be ready by Christmas last time I read. Plus other vaccine deals we got

And if people dont want to get the vaccine. Fair enough but they will be the ones spreading the disease around the world. I will be getting the vaccine as soon as possible

You're correct Oxford say they may have a vaccine by Christmas. They won't have the millions of doses required. The majority of scientific opinion is 12-18 months is the very earliest we can expect a vaccine so if we take 15 months as an average that would put us in March.

There has never been a successful Coronavirus vaccine (there is more than one Coronavirus), most vaccines take years if not decades of development and to achieve one in 12-18 months is said by some scientists to be possibly one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time.

I'm all for optimism chaddy but not for blind optimism based on what Oxford or others hope will happen.

Vaccine deals? Last night the BBC reported we have 340m doses on order from six different sources. This means nothing until there is something which can actually be delivered.

The harsh reality is we are unlikely to have an effective vaccine control of Covid-19 for many years. If we had a vaccine today the problems are far from over.

What would make a difference is if everyone took the situation seriously, acted accordingly and accepted their responsibility to society. I only have to look around me daily to see we are so far away from this that we have no chance of overcoming the virus in the short-term. Many have never understood their responsibility to society and it isn't going to suddenly happen.

It seems millions are prepared to simply take the risk. In one way I agree with them as I feel all any of us can do is accept and manage our personal risk. A vaccine isn't going to suddenly make football safe.

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some clubs will be stadium tests of fans during pre season. 

I guess the majority of fans wont return to stadiums until we all had the vaccine. 

EFL Clubs are meeting up shortly with EFL to sort out coverage of games. Read that online in the past week

I'm prepared to go back without a vaccine. If we have to wait this long the game as a live spectator sport will be dead.

Whatever may happen elsewhere the UK is years away from a vaccine and after finding a safe, effective one only 50% of the population appear willing to be vaccinated.

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The Government will allowed sport pilot schemes to resume now. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53772735?__twitter_impression=true

I'm not having a dig at you chaddy, merely amazed government considers this a test of any sort.

The Crucible capacity is 980 and is a well controlled environment. This is an entirely different environment to a football stadium and in this respect is more akin to testing a return to theatres.

One has to hope no one in government is stupid enough to extrapolate the results of this test of a low attendance, indoor sporting event to a football crowd.

What is needed is a plan to get 10-15000 spectators in to a football ground and monitor the outcome. More easily just look at a few pubs.........

It's still looking like 2021 before we are able to watch live football. It's five weeks to the season start and as far as I'm aware we don't even have news on what fans can watch of BCD games. Not a word about live attendance other than the 17-30% limit reported on capacity.

The PL and EFL really should be opening up discussion on this subject.

28 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Both sides of this argument seem to have missed the actual reason they have been on sale at a majority of clubs. It’s fairly simple to me, the clubs selling them (or were selling) are doing so because they’ve  had them on sale for an extended period, pre lockdown in most cases, as is standard at most clubs to have a sale window of months.

The few that haven’t had them on sale at all are the ones that are always late getting them out, I.e Blackburn Rovers, who usually scramble them out post annual Pune meeting leaving a few weeks to sell a standard 8/9,000 in the summer. So of course, taking a look at the logistics of it all on the 2nd August, it’s no surprise clubs in our position are giving the whole thing a wide berth and waiting for some clarity from government/EFL.

Quite right, I fully agree but this ignores that these clubs have continued to sell STs after they became aware of the situation.

Everton's "claim your seat" deadline was July 28th. It is absolutely clear Everton, and I guess many, many others, have continued to sell STs when they have absolutely no idea on what government guidelines will be, if or when crowds will return etc.

Middlesbrough showed the way, clubs such as Everton have ignored reality and the consequences in a desperate scramble for cash.

How anyone can defend or justify such action after the Covid-19 issues arose is beyond me. Sales before, that's life, sales afterwards are irresponsible and demonstrate a total disregard for the supporter.

@chaddyroversit's not often I agree with your view but on this I think you are quite correct.

I think we can accept anyone who wants an ST at Ewood will get one. We won't sell out the probable one-third of capacity. If Rovers sell me an ST I expect it to be either for all games or to be refunded, not credited, deferred etc. for those which are BCD.

I've read Middlesbrough have taken STs off sale until it's fully understood what the ground capacity and general attendance circumstances will be. This is action for which the club should be praised. It demonstrates sound management and consideration of the consequences of selling STs before knowing how live attendance will work.

The call is for Rovers to sell STs to ease cashflow issues. I cannot for the life of me see how this makes any sense. At some point it may be necessary to refund some or all of the money raised. So where does the cash come from to make these refunds? Selling STs now does nothing other than postpone the inevitable need for further cash injection by the owners or closure.

It would be more honest if Rovers, or any other club, was upfront. They cannot guarantee if or when live attendance will be possible. The ST money will immediately go towards the daily club running costs and we cannot indicate if or when it would be refunded. If the club fails financially you may not get your money back.

If football clubs need to ease to cashflow issues it should be nothing more than requesting donations on the understanding donors would receive a free ST if or when attendance is possible. Selling as STs is simply dishonest.

I'd like to see a sensible justification as to why a club would undertake all the costs of selling STs, spend the cash, possibly face further costs in refunds and the issue of raising the cash to make said refunds. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know the truth behind our STs not being on sale. I hope it's because the club is taking what I regard as the only acceptable approach.

In my view those calling for STs to be sold for cashflow purposes with no guarantee of anything are simply using the situation to find another stick to beat the management with. Selling STs now cannot be justified in anyway and is exploitative.

From what I have observed social distancing etc. is declining rapidly and clearly being ignored by some. Until everyone grasps the need to follow the guidelines correctly the potential for curtailing Covid-19 is very limited. Enforcing social distancing etc. in a football ground is impossible without full supporter cooperation.  A football crowd is one example of a situation where spread could be significant. It would only need one proven instance of an infection spike from a match to put all games back to BCD.

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

Everton have sold 30,000 season tickets for a 39,000 capacity ground. 

We have sold 0 season tickets for a 31,000 capacity ground.

Everton will have millions in the bank from that. We have nothing.

Who do we reckon knows best about running a football club? Everton or Venkys and Waggott.

The club can put tickets on sale whenever it likes. But next news is Waggott will be moaning about FFP, lack of income and rich clubs having more money than us.

Well speaking for myself i have my money ready to spend and would do so if the club was prepared to accept it. I won't be alone.

Can't have it both ways. Can't be bothered with the basics and the hassle of devising a scheme e.g. £300 for the first 20 home matches whenever they may be. Don't then moan about not having any money.

I'm presuming the 30,000 figure is correct but don't know. If correct it sums up the huge dilema for clubs, highlights the risks they run and raises questions over the overriding attitude towards supporters.  There is a clause in the Everton FAQs:

"What if the 2020/21 season is played behind closed doors?  

If games in the 2020/21 season are affected in any way, the Club will refund supporters the pro-rata value of any missed games."

There is widespread reporting stadium capacity will be limited to 17 to 30% depending on individual club circumstances.

On the face of it either two-thirds of Everton ST holders will not get to see any games or all supporters will only see one-third of games. I cannot think of a better way to totally piss off the fan base in one swoop.

The clause I quoted only covers BCD, it doesn't mention games which are played in front of a limited capacity. Everton have created a massive problem for themselves as has every club which has already sold more than 30% of its capacity.

44 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Yet, yet, the majority of clubs have thousands sold...

Which I really do not understand when there is no knowing when or if we will be allowed to return to the ground or which games an individual fan may get to see. There is the huge question of capacity. OK at Rovers if we don't sell tickets to away fans achieving, for example, one third capacity is simple but at clubs with larger gates or a potential large demand? Lets imagine clubs are restricted to one third capacity. A friend was telling me yesterday his team, Everton, have 35000 ST holders and a capacity of 39000. On the basis of one third capacity only 13000 will be allowed in for a match. It must be desperate to be a Leeds or WBA fan today! If I was a Baggie I might well have bought one already but at a club where nothing has changed and crowds are small? No real reason to buy yet

I feel the fairest approach to the capacity issue is a ballot. In some manner all ST holders would be entered in to a club run draw for every game and each fan gets one in three random matches. The ballot would take place before the season start. Electronic or paper ticketing would be needed to control ground entry and those who try to cheat the system would have to be turned away to get the message out to all. A massive issue for clubs to solve.

6 hours ago, DaveyB said:

Fair enough. Like I said I picked the first 4 teams I thought of (I’ve previously lived in both Derby & Sheffield so those are always likely to be among the first I think of)

I’m genuinely amazed that teams are selling them at the moment.
I’d be interested to know, honestly, who on here would buy a season ticket at the minute given the uncertainty about when/if crowds will be able to attend again?

 

Edit - I didn’t ignore your examples, I replied to your original message which didn’t include any 

I'm in full agreement with you. I can't for the life of me understand why any fan at any club would buy a season ticket now. There are simply too many questions which remain to be answered. Decades ago when I sat in Nuttall Street I would buy an ST the week they went on sale. Why? I wanted to support the club financially. I knew how important my money was to Rovers. The harsh reality is my money is probably equally important today as it was then. That though is a whole different discussion.

Would I buy an ST now? No, absolutely not. Does this mean I don't want to support the club financially at a time when I'm sure the need is very significant? No, it doesn't. There is though one huge difference today from the 70s/80s - back then I knew I would be getting to watch football. Today football clubs are selling a promise they may not be able to fulfill and then as fans we would face a battle to get our money refunded. I'll buy an ST to watch football, I won't buy an ST to be fobbed off with iFollow and a promise.

For all the bluster coming out of the FA, PL and EFL there is in fact nothing to show we will back at Ewood in the foreseeable future. The FA are talking about September. Those running the game are having a laugh and clubs selling STs are exploiting their fans. SIX weeks till September. Lets be serious Rovers are going to organise getting 10,000 in to the ground safely for 90 minutes in a six week period? October is ten weeks. Not a prayer.

Tomorrow and mask wearing will give us a clue. My money is on less than 30% of shoppers wearing masks. Then what will happen in shops? Extraplolate that to a football stadium. Fans are directed to sit at a certain distance apart, wear masks etc. Some fans decide not to follow the rules/guidelines, it will happen, and what happens next? The stewards are expected to ensure guidelines are adhered to? I've yet to see stewards get fans to sit down. "£2 an hour" - we've all heard it.

Whatever rules/guidelines fans are to be expected to follow enforcing them will be a Herculean task and I very much doubt football has the ability or resolve to address the problem. Liverpool last night proves the point - those fans did harm to the possibility of getting supporters back in to grounds. We won't be back at Ewood any time soon so why would I buy an ST?

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

Sounds like you are just as tech savvy as the rest of us at this point. We all had the exact same issue.

The platform is very unintuitive and the system flaky. Hopefully teething problems that they now know how to combat.

What strikes me as particularly strange is the log in process. I've done everything asked of me on MY laptop. I can see the STH pass and it shows as paid £0.00. Seems reasonable.

The app is installed on my lad's tablet and only this as I didn't want any "more than one device issues."

There is nowhere in the device to log in. Every other app I use wants a log in. Rail pass, Covid-19, Google maps, Scrabble - everything except Rovers.

After 24 hours the app requested a log in from which point it worked well.

Eventually worth all the effort as the lady was delighted and exited in equal measure at the match and result.

I didn't receive any details, codes etc. for my own ST.

Tried to get in at 2.45 but constantly getting "connection error, no internet access." I was able to use Google Chrome! Uninstalled and reinstalled the app twice, got in but couldn't watch. Tried to buy a £10 pass to see if that would work. Couldn't buy a pass because I've already got one!!!!

After failing to buy a pass I went back to the app which asked me to log in - for the first time in 24 hours. Eventually got the feed at 3.12.

Better than I expected and we won.

The technology is awful.

OK I REALLY COULD DO WITH HELP - PLEASE. I've been at this for over three hours now. It's not for me, I couldn't give a fig anymore, but my lad is desperate to watch the game.

I've finally managed to redeem the code sent to me by the club - I did this on the tablet we need to use. My son needs to watch the game on his tablet, a Samsung and obviously Android because he doesn't have a laptop/PC and Covid-19 prevents me from entering his house so I can't take my laptop inside - I do have his tablet though! I've downloaded the Rovers app from Playstore and can use the app successfully!!!

I have an email from Rovers which gave me the code and states:

"Test the system before matchday! Take a look at some match highlights from previous fixtures to make sure you have access and your device works properly. Premium content will only be available to premium subscribers."

If I go to Highlights I can watch SOME of these but not all. For example I can Derby v Rovers with the image showing the teams coming out. Next to this image is another for the same game but it shows a season ticket. If I try to watch this video I get the message "Alert. To watch this content please upgrade your account" It's the same game for goodness sake!!! The same applies to other matches.

Then I go to Latest Videos and click the image of the Tony Mowbray interview, again I get the message "Alert......" If I go to Latest News, Community etc. all I get is "Alert....."

I cannot find anywhere in the app to upgrade the account. I will happily pay money for my lad to watch Rovers but it is completely beyond me how to do this. I've tried via the ifollow@efl.com website - every time I enter my email address it says "please enter a valid email address"

My two questions are simple - Do I have to find a way to upgrade the account to allow my lad to watch the game? Does the fact I can watch some of the Highlight videos mean we can watch the match tomorrow? I'm not a fool but what I am experiencing is completely beyond me and I do actually know how to use IT!!!!!

My wife has shown me her Twitter feed - it's alive with other Rovers fans not understanding this whole process.

Well as expected it's crap. "The promotion code you entered is not valid."

Yet another example of how the club no longer gives a shit about the support.

TV. TV. TV.........it's all the game cares about these days.

On 16/06/2020 at 21:36, chaddyrovers said:

Depends what the government is saying. He seeing the same news and as us. Oxford university said last week that the UK population could be vaccinated by Christmas. 

Look like the season wont start until October anyway if the season wont finish until Mid August. 

On 16/06/2020 at 21:54, chaddyrovers said:

No one said everyone would vaccinated by September tho. 

Here is the latest comments from Prof John Bell from Oxford university 

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-in-uk-by-christmas/

Do you actually understand what has been said in this link?

Fans won't be in the ground before March 2021.