jim mk2

Hmm, Alderman in the 1980s. Would that include the 1981, 1985 and 1986-87 series when we took your lot to the cleaners ?

Gower's comments were tongue in cheek but Lehman's were of a different nature and entirely inappropriate for a national coach. Consensus here is he was let off lightly.

Stuart Broad's dad Chris Broad was a feisty beggar too, often in trouble with authorities. He scored 7 Test hundreds - all of them outside 4 of them in Australia. I guess Stuart Broad will be loving this fuss.

No need to be a condescending old fart. Before judging the Aussies I suggest you read up on our history of sporting violence. Comparatively, the Aussies are corgis to out rottweilers.

i know all about our shameful football violence thanks but we're talking cricket here.

Au contraire, my dear boy. Sir David on their "feral" crowds, below

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/australia-has-no-culture-gower-hits-out-at-feral-cricket-fans-20130605-2noyq.html.

Also, read John Snow's account of the 1970 tour (you know, as in "read" his book - those weird things in libraries and bookshops).

Headingley crowd are horrible when they get drunk but they're nothing like "your" lot.

Do you research on that tour. Might open your eyes, like.

John Snow was physically attacked by a convict spectator on the 1970 tour. so you're wrong on that one.

I believe the quotes from Lehman were sarcastic, and a joke on an Aussie radio program.

Ouch, bad day for Kerrigan. Looked like a nervous wreck on the highlights.

They didn't sound sarcastic to me, more an incitement to riot. Appalling comments by a supposed national coach.

It was good to see them picked but they both played poorly today - perhaps first Test nerves.

Stick to the golf Gordon.

Lehman admits to never walking and then accuses Broad of cheating. Irony hasn't reached the outback obviously. I don't like Lehman but then I don't like any of that lot. In the words of Keggle Keggle I would absolutely love it if Broad shoves Lehman's words back down his throat this winter.

I wouldn't have played Woakes or Kerrigan - on today's viewing neither look ready for Test cricket yet. With the return series only a few months away it's important we end the series on a high note and win this game.

Just to remind ourselves. the real "cheating scum".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cricketers_banned_for_match_fixing

Good to see Lancashire spinner Simon Kerrigan called up for the 5th Test squad. Woakes too, replacing the injured and perennially unlucky Onions. Presumably Tremlett will replace the injured Bresnan in an otherwise unchanged starting XI.

Shame as Bresnan does seem to have a lot of injury problems - he's only just recovered from a bad elbow injury. Hopefully he'll be Ok for the visit to the land of dust and flies this winter.

I expect Tremlett to come in. He's another injury-prone player but is a very good bowler who gets good bounce on hard pitches and did well on the previous tour.

Come on Jim, I thought we were pals?

I started this thread to discuss what I thought would be a competitive and enjoyable series. Unfortunately, it has been neither and overshadowed by 2 key issues in my opinion, cheating and DRS. By no fault of my own, the England players have been cheating and the DRS has favoured England majority of the time. Had it been Australia, I would have slagged them off all the same.

It seems as though I am not entitled to a cricket opinion as I support neither team. Wonder how Michael Holding feels.

1. England players haven't walked but so what ? Rightly or wrongly, international players don't walk - including India's.

2. Sometimes DRS favoured England, sometimes it favoured the opposition. Do you think a machine honestly is as bent as Indian umpires ?

3. It's obvious you wanted the opposition to win and are probably aghast they did not.

This is the last time I respond to your pathetic posts.

Boo

Like I said earlier, I believe I have contributed very fairly to the Ashes discussion. I'm sure Jim will agree with me.

No I don't. It's obvious now you started this thread not to discuss the Ashes but use it as a vehicle to slag off England. Now kindly fack off.

We were talking about India, so I mentioned the world-class Indian batsmen. At no point did I say they were my favourite players.

Clarke, Waugh brothers, Lara, Sangakara, Chanderpaul, etc are just a few of my favourites that are non-Indian. No prejudice at all, just a silly accusation you have in your head.

About Cook, his negativity against a better opposition would have been punished. It's just a crying shame that Australia aren't the force they used to be. A better batting line-up and no cheating from the England camp, and the scores would be a lot closer than 3-0. But hey, no point crying over it. You won and if you feel it is morally and ethically correct to celebrate a victory in those circumstances, then who am I to judge? Celebrate.

In view of your country's record on proven cheating (rather than your own view of cheating) you are in no position to judge.

Meanwhile I'm sitting in the sunshine enjoying another glass of Ashes ale. Lovely.

All 3 batsmen are a joy to watch when they're are on form, but that is the case with any batsmen in the world. However, that doesn't make them world class. Out of the 3, I probably enjoy watching Cook. His technique as you said is fabulous, however he tends to disappear in the big matches. His captaincy is very negative and I feel the added pressure of the captaincy has hindered his performances recently. I can't remember the last time he made a century. This in turn, has led to the downfall of Root. If Cook is out, then more pressure is added to the youngster to score big.

So why are your favourite players (who just happen to be Indian) "world-class" when others (who just happen to be English) are not ? Unless you are prejudiced of course.

From wikipaedia: Cook took over as permanent England captain for the Test series against India in the winter of 2012. In each of the first three Tests – the first a defeat and the second a ten-wicket victory – he scored a century. This, together with a century in each of two Tests in Bangladesh when he was captain, gave Cook five centuries in five Tests as captain, a record number. His scores on the tour also included 119 and 97 in the warm-up matches.

The ten-wicket victory in the second Test was lauded by the media as one of England's greatest victories, and Cook's run of hundreds brought him level with the English Test record for most centuries. On 6 December 2012, Cook became England's leading scorer of centuries after making a hundred against India in Kolkata.

On 7 December 2012 he captained England to its first Test series victory on Indian soil since 1984–85, as well as overtaking Mike Gatting as England's highest ever run scorer in India.

It seems Cook likes playing against India - is that why you don't like him ? As for cliched "negative" captaincy stuff I'll take negative over positive any day in view of England's success under him.

By his standards he's played poorly this series but he's had dips in form before and come back stronger.

Statistics only tell one side of a story. In Laxman's case, the story is, if anything, even more incomplete. Numbers can never capture the elegance of his batting or the joy of his magical wristwork. The same applies to Ganguly. Dhoni is very aggressive and very much like Pietersen, however his brilliant captaincy makes him world class.

I enjoy watching the way Cook plays the cut shot and in particular the ball off his legs, which is one of the most difficult shots to play. He's probably the best batsmen in world cricket on leg stump because anything pitched in that area usually goes for a boundary. Trott is a lovely batsman to watch when he is on form. Both are players out of the top drawer. "World class" is in the eyes of the beholder - you only see "world class" when it is wearing an India cap.

So Not at all, I think I have given a very fair account of myself on here re: the major talking points.

You've admitted to "hating" the England cricket team and labelled them "cheats" when it's been pointed out to you more than once with proven facts that the Indians are the biggest cheats in world cricket. You're not fair. Some people would say you're prejudiced.

I hate the England cricket team, however I am cricket fan and I have contributed very fairly to the Ashes debate. It's a shame you have those tinted glasses on.

Maybe you should read the cricket column more often in the National Press. Majority of the talk this Ashes series has been the use of DRS and when Broad didn't decide to walk (blatantly cheating). The cricket has not been spectacular by any stretch of the imagination. More so players playing poor shots or out of form. We saw a few genuine world class deliveries from Harris/Broad/Bresnan yesterday, other than that I struggle to see any genuine class in the whole series.

They're too serious this mob.

I wouldn't say Cook is world class nor Pietersen. Pietersen is a game changer but one big innings every now and again will not make him world class. His weakness when it comes to playing spin also backs up my argument.

Like I said, enjoy the victory. I did when we whitewashed them

It's very easy to rubbish your "argument".

Cook averages 48.1 in Test cricket, Pietersen 48.3.

Of India's so-called "world class" (your words) batsmen Sehwag and Dravid's Test averages are better at around the 50 mark but Ganguly, Laxman, Dhoni, Ghambir at 42.1, 45.9, 39.7 and 44.1 respectively are significantly worse.

Only batsmen of the highest class have Test averages in the high 40s or more.

I'd wager still near the top. Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Dhoni, Ghambir, etc are all world class batsmen who have consistently performed for India.

Broad had his best game in an England shirt. Still doesn't make him a better bowler than Siddle or Harris (the argument we had earlier in the thread).

Oh and I've already enjoyed a 4-0 whitewash of Australia, in Australia. Nothing special for us

Likewise Cook, Trott and Pietersen for England. Broad's had better allround games for England because he's a better batsman than those two. And when he's in his pomp like yesterday he's also a better bowler.

Now fack off and let us enjoy our win.

I wouldn't say glorious. Take away the runs from Ian Bell in this series (who has been my man of the series), and England would have been in much bother as the Aussies. Quality wise the series has been poor. Entertainment wise it has been great.

Take away Tendulkar's runs over the years and where would India have been ? Daft argument.

I must say Broad's bowling spell yesterday was poor quality.

Lie back and think of England - and enjoy the moment.

Absolutely no reason to be quiet. As I said, Australia should have batted sensibly but didn't.

How ridiculous is this DRS nonsense? The "Umpire's call" has to be removed. Watson and Haddin would have been not out had the umpire given them not out.

Anderson again had a very poor game.

England have bowled fairly well throughout the series, but boy have the Aussies made it a walk in the park for them with some dismal batting displays. The Aussie bowling attack is perfectly fine. They need to sort out the middle order and bring in a number 3 who won't throw his wicket away and invite further pressure on Clarke etc.

I guess we have the ODI's to look forward to now. The test at the Oval is meaningless, although a win for the Aussies may give them a slight boost going into this winter's tour.

From what I have read they don't have any better - this lot is as good as they get. But who cares about them anyway ?

This is time to celebrate another glorious England triumph.

Prior's been a disappointment with the bat that's true, but then so have Cook and Trott while Root and Bairstow.should not be in the team because they aren't good enough at present (please don't point out Root's 187 because he was dropped on 8).

I feel England have won this series despite firing only on 2 or 3 batting cylinders for most of the time (which just shows how poor the opposition are but who cares?).

However when we have needed someone to stand up and be counted either Swann, Broad, Anderson, Pietersen or in particular Bell have shown their mettle.

Bell has been brilliant - the best batsman on both sides by far. Warne deserves to choke on his own words.

3-0 up with one to play; let's make it 4 at the Oval.

No, I am not mocking this country's tolerance and decency, so do not accuse me of that. I am stating the faults of the England cricket team, which consists of their management and players, whom I believe are cheats and hypocrites.

I have seen enough of them in this series alone to justify my beliefs.

I didn't move to England, I was born here. If you want to go on an Indian messageboard then feel free, nobody is stopping you.

The England team has plenty of faults - such as complacency and lack of application - but they are not "cheats and hypocrites".

The cheats are mainly Indians and Pakistanis (see below), which makes you the hypocrite.

http://en.wikipedia....or_match_fixing

Today was the poorest I have seen England play in a long time. But then England have been generally poor all summer, yet still secured the Ashes in record time.

Flower needs to deliver an Alex Ferguson-style bollocking to some players for getting themselves out out against a very mediocre attack and it's also obvious the team needs a shake-up. Ballance and Taylor are better young batsmen than Bairstow while Root needs to go down the order. Why Onions wasn't picked for his home Test is a mystery too.