All would want wages above our uncompetitive pay structure.

10 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

Let's be honest, no one is paying any fees for Pears or Leo. They have destroyed any sort of value with the bad mistakes this season. Best we can do is just let them leave for free and get the wages off the wage bill.

Why would they be willing to rip up their contract and give up years worth of wages?

He did not purposely get sent off as a tactical move.

Mowbray might not even be well enough to continue as Birmingham manager but it seems like just assuming 2 managers will go for their former players (fuelled by Nixon nonsense) to say Ruddy comes here and Pears goes there.

Ruddy might not be as bad as Pears but hes well past his best.

4 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I get this completely.

But every club Waggott has been at, post him leaving have flourished.

I think he's also a massive problem.

The problem is Venkys. Hes just an ugly symptom.

Obviously im not saying this is the case as it obviously is not, but he would argue he laid foundations at those clubs...

27 minutes ago, Hasta said:

BBC, Sky, Rovers own website and the Lancashire Telegraph all say Sunderland was the first official Eustace win. All football stats websites give him 2 wins. It’s just a bonkers, desperate argument. It’s not like it suddenly makes anything more impressive. It would just mean that every home performance since then has been worse.

A desperate attempt to make a shit record slightly less shit.

Tomasson solely at fault for the shit signing. He's gone and Broughton is still here, so it must have been down to the person that has gone.

(Well, mainly down to Venkys and their cuts but you get the point)

Its all geting very desperate. Trying to include a win he wasnt even officially in charge of having not been appointed 24 ours prior, just because he had a meeting with Johnson and Lowe and he came down after half time. Stat padding because we all know his results have been terrible.

Also echoing Eustace's negative "what if we lose" mentality to justify keeping 5 defenders on against an exhausted 10 men with the prize of survival on offer if we won.

It is incomprehensible that if the manager/coaches explained why we didnt move from a back 5, that the logic used could have been a mistake. 

We didnt win a game that was there for us for half an hour, so evidence suggested that their logic was flawed and they made the wrong call.

The owners have consistently left employees in the dark as to budgets until the very last minute regardless of which employees are at the club at that time, and have allowed the club across all aspects to get into such a terrible state. 

Pointless even conversing with a buffoon middleman who clearly has very little power and even less of a clue. The issue is in India and he is just a grubby symptom of it all.

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

I seen the video interview.Ayari said he was a number 6 or number 8.

Just pointing out he wasn't brought in as a ten like you had said in that post

 

I meant that he is a number 10/attacking midfielder or had played there when I saw him for Coventry.

Either way, point is that he even as one of the more involved loanees has still only started two games and has had very little impact. Clubs wont be looking at us as keen to lend us their players if they base it on this season.

When managers (or in this case, a coach) "explain" their decisions it is always going to be what they thought, but its key not to just take it as being right. He isn't going to admit that they lacked the bravery or were content with a point. It was the wrong decision and the result wasn't good considering the circumstances.

Also I agree with @Bohinen1983 on McFadzean. He clearly purely in defensive terms knows what he is doing, and he is a leader, a proper old school defender through the lower leagues. But his frailties mean that we have to have a 3rd centre back as an attempt to cover them. We clearly dont try to play out from the back nor am I saying we should, but you still need to be somewhat capable on the ball. He just aimlessly lumps the ball in the air more than anyone else. We have limited attackers like Gallagher and Dolan but their job is made impossible when the ball isnt often even lumped in their general direction. He is also so slow that we have to play further back or risk a repeat of the Plymouth game. He should be let go at the end of the season.

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Loans cost money. We don't have any. It's really that simple.

They are the cheapest way of getting players as opposed to paying fees or even freebies who can demand higher signing on and agent fees. Hence why we borrow so many.

I think it was reported by Rich Sharpe that Poveda was the first one that we paid any sort of fee towards. Unsure if we have since but id hope not.

19 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

A key reason why we finished 7th/8th and not higher, he’s garbage.

I think hes steady. Nothing special, not quick, and certainly not a wing back. But a solid, consistent left back at this level, good on the ball and reads the game well.

The issue is that all of those permutations are not equally likely so I suspect our chances are certainly higher than 2 in 81, although still a long shot.

For example, us losing at Leicester is 90-95% likely id say. Sheffield Wedneday getting a point at Sunderland is over 50% likely I think as well. Its the other 2 games that bring the probability right down.

Centre backs are 6 and 5. Amidst the barrage of jargon that has started to filter into the game for whatever reason, people wrongly see a number 6 as a holding midfielder.

Either way, the loans this season have been poor again, 2 seasons under Broughton (maybe low wage contribution available this season has played a part) have seen a lorry load of loanees that have all ranged from underwhelming to total wastes of time. Ayari hasnt played much, Chrisene hasnt played that much, Koumetio hasnt played at all. Moran has been a huge disappointment after all the hype and has barely played for months.

You mention Elliott @roverblue but to be fair, Van Hecke and Khadra came in the following season. Mowbray in his time here had some strong relationships with clubs and brought in some very good loanees. That has not continued under Broughton though.

It wont affect the summer business. Absolutely nothing has changed since January when they wouldnt even allow a slither of the Wharton funds to be reinvested on McGuire. Deary me.

Picked wrong then.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You said we would get what we did for Adam Wharton but guess what. we did. you were wrong on that

 

Not really sure what relevance that has to the point I made. Although we could have got £50m for him and none would have gone into reinvesting like all Venkys sales so its nothing to be excited about.

Johansson has a release clause so us trying to sweeten Rotherham up by loaning them a shit keeper wont make a difference, any team can activate that clause. And it almost certainly wont be us when he will likely have lots of interest and it would require Venkys authorising £1m to be spent especially on a position we have 2 keepers in already. They dont care how bad they are.

46 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Ayari didn't come as a number ten day after he signed he said he was a number 6 or 8 and spoke with the coach about playing in that position.

He didn't play 10 for Coventry either 

He barely played at all but he definitely at least played sometimes as a number 10. I remember watching the game in which he scored for them when the ball just hit him and he played behind 2 strikers and they played wing backs. 

Certainly didnt play as a 6 as that is a CB's number. Traditionally anyway.

But either way, gone off point. The original point was that teams might be less enthusiastic about loaning us players considering how poor our loan signings have been this season and how they have barely played.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think we'll go, that requires us to lose and Wednesday to get at least a point (both very likely) combined with both Plymouth and Birmingham winning - (not on the face of it particularly likely).

That shouldn't be seen as a badge of honour though, by god we've been utterly unconvincing under 2 different coaches and there needs to be a massive improvement next season whichever division we're in. At least if we never see Sam Gallagher again after Saturday it will be a reason to raise a glass in celebration I suppose.

P.S. If anyone wants to hedge against the crushing disappointment of the worst case scenario unfolding, we're 18/1 to go down with Sky Bet.

If its another expected summer of Venkys cutbacks then I doubt there will be any improvement either in general or up front.

55 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

IF we are lucky enough to stay up we should be all over Rotherhams Viktor Johanson. Reported release clause of just 1 mill! which is a snip for a relatively young quality established championship keeper (especially considering we paid not far off that for Wahlstadt) 

We should offer them swede in return sending them Leo on loan for a season as they'll be looking for a keeper. 

 

Kind of deal venkys usually purrr over. Relatively young(for a keeper!) low price, likely modest wages and still a lot of room for him to improve as a player and increase his value. 

 

Doesnt sound like something Venkys would purr over. Spending 1m when as far as they are concerned, we already have 2 goalkeepers. They arent too bothered if they are any good or not.

He wouldnt come here I dont think anyway, he should get a better move on bigger wages elsewhere. Giving Rotherham a supposed sweetener in Wahlstedt would make no difference to negotiations as anyone can activate that release clause. Plus no way would Steve Evans want Wahlstedt anyway.

7 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

But Ayari, Chrisene and koumetio haven't even really been given a chance only as a last resort! 

Our midfield has been crying out for a more creative player like Ayari, but still he only gets the odd cameo and Chrisene is easily better than pickering! Koumetio hasn't even been given a start thatvi can remember and Ibthink his physical presence and hussleNbussle style could have causrd a bit of chaos and given thecteam a lift in the drab stale games 

Based on the one cameo he had, I suspect the only chaos Koumetio would have caused would have been in our own defence. You look at the levels that his previous 2 loans were at and then consider that he couldnt even get regular gametime at those clubs, and you can maybe understand why he hasnt been used here, clearly a very late and desperate move.

Pickering is a solid left back at this level and was a key part in the teams that finished 7th and 8th. He is being hung out to dry at the moment under Eustace in a position that doesnt suit him. But Chrisene isnt better than him.

Ayari has had a mixture of ineffective cameos and ones where he has had somewhat of an impact, he was decent yesterday. But he came as a number 10 which was one position we didnt need, but with the shit show of a window we had losing Travis and then Wharton, the only place he has had a chance of getting game time in is deeper. I wonder if he could be trusted in that position.

Either way, the point is valid that clubs may be less likely to loan us players having seen how little this seasons batch has finished.

He has been absolutely awful in games too. As youd expect from a player signed from the German 4th division.

There was no reason to not bring other attacking players on and sacrifice a centre back though, it is just Eustace for you.

Yeah we wont get the result we need, but I can't see 3 results all going against us elsewhere.

And you might see people say how unlucky we are if all of those results do go against us. It certainly wont be bad luck if we go down.

8 minutes ago, Andy said:

I'm a big JDT fan, but I haven't seen anybody defend his record for the final 15 or so games.
He'd clearly given up and wanted out - and this came across loud and clear.

The fact that those final 15 games, as horrible as they were, equal's JE's new manager bounce (his first 15 games) is beyond worrying.

I meant that chaddy wouldnt say a bad word about him and was fuming when he left. Now all of a sudden like with Mowbray before, he is happy to criticse him and shield the current manager from any sort of criticism.

I agree with you and as we will likely just about stay up, its the first third of the season that has done all of the work under Tomasson.

2 hours ago, M_B said:

It's all about opinions, Keiran Mckenna's is good enough for me. 

I dont get why you dont have enough faith in your opinion to just pass it off in favour of McKenna's. We dont even know if he picked him but he wont have seen him week in week out for years like us.

That being said, there is an element of truth in what you say about losing him. Hes proven himself over many years to be somewhat effective at this level, he usually gets 8 or 9 goals and he offers other things, I'd say he is Championship standard but bottom half. If we signed a player with his record for a free, we would probably be saying he is a decent squad pick up. 

We are also likely to be scrambling around in the frees and loan market, and we know from experience that it is difficult to get anyone anywhere near good enough under those conditions, so to get 2 up to standard will be hard.

That being said, he has had a particularly bad season this season, especially with his recurring injuries, and he is the top earner. It would be a no brainer to let him go if we had competent owners and room to manouevre budget wise, as we likely wont then it is a bit of a risk but I still think he should probably be let go.