but all three makes you wonder what the stewards etc were doing. The same principle goes for the three pitch invasions. One's unfortunate, two's very careless, three...

See my earlier post BB - according to Hammers fans - the Stewards where apparently helping people onto the field - whether this was for safety reasons or not is anybody's guess at the moment -also after the first goal the less than preventative nature of the stewards from letting people get on to the pitch seemed to be picked up upon by the fans which is probably why there were the x3 pitch invasions.

Yet again though - from the Stewards account on the radio - there were not enough for the game ( like the police) and some didn't even want to be on duty for this game anyway.

Strange reading the articles now but its saying there where 500 police on duty with riot police and horses as back up - I'm sure there were more than this for our previous exploits against our friends down the road on both occasions.

I don't know. I remember a lot of people trying to play down the Rangers fans unrest in Manchester until the CCTV footage was released by the police. Some of the reports play it down but other don't sound good at all. I suspect that footage may eventually circulate showing it as being very bad by modern day standards.

I have no doubt on this also Hasta but the way the media portray it its as if it was going off all over the place.

There will have been old scores trying to be settled no doubt last night ( and appearances by 'old faces') and even in the interviews I have heard and reports there where incidents of a violence - but the World War scenario being banded about makes it seem nobdy has ever been or seen 'violence' at a game before. If it was violent as being made out - I would have expected to have heard more incidents throughout London rather than outside and inside the ground.

As mentioned by fans and Stewards there where not enough Police, but from all accounts the Police did a good job , however from Hammers fans accounts the Stewards where helping some onto the field - now whether that was for safety reasons I have no idea but there appears to have been alot of incidents snowballed into 'violent' hysteria.

not sure about anybody else (and will probably get slated here for it) , but there still seems to be alot of reporting hysteria flying about again re the game last night and the usual knee jerk rather than what actually happened.

Now I am not vindicating what happened, nor naive in thinking that there where not people who where intent on causing trouble - but it seems there was more disorder rather than violence that happened

There is a history between the two teams that goes back along while - playing in different divisions and not being a regular doesn't help either - so there was always going to be a tense atmosphere in and outside the ground and exacerbated by the way the game actually pannedd out (Millwall (underdogs) away from home take the lead) goading then a late equaliser from the Hammers - emotions run high in Derby games - pitch invasions are not unknown and I know it still doesn't make it right but they do happen and especially in highly charged games.

I'm only going off what I have heard and read ( both sets of fans and stewards), and even on the BBC wedsite to quote Malcolm Clarke Chairman of the FSF says "It's important to get to the bottom of it but too many hysterical over-reactions don't help"

By all accounts it was a Millwall fan that was stabbed and listening on the radio from fans and in statements is not as bad as being made out and was a series of events that just escalated.

An investigation may prove otherwise but there has been mention of overcrowding at the Tube station with no trains being stopped/ held back- for anybody who has been on the train/tube to West Ham will understand this which led to the initial disturbance with the police outside the ground, there where not enough Police or Stewards , the initial 'disturbance was just the usual stand off and goading with a police line and items (paper cups , coins being thrown) until the police broke the line trying to clear up and seal off streets which is apparently when Millwall fans managed to get through the police and sporadic fighting did take place.

Disturbing and frightening for the majority who went no doubt (1 person getting stabbed is one too many), and also for the residents in the area and although it shouldn't happen there appears to be a lot of condemnation without back up or understanding of what really went on.

I have the ticket - still complete!!

Not sure why I ended up not going - it was my 18th Birthday - think it had something with people chickening out and was left going on my own.

Always enjoyed trips to the Den for the run the gauntlet except for a game with an unknown Mr Sheringham at the time.

I have the ticket - still complete!!

Whilst I don't wish ill health on anybody, I'm delighted that Bill Toland is retiring from drumming.

I remember a couple of years ago at an away game I tried to engage Mr Toland in a polite conversation to let him know that many supporters found his drumming quite infuriating, but he just gave me a blank stare.

John Williams and Tom Finn seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that the constant thudding of drums is hugely popular with supporters. On the contrary, many fans found the drumming completely vexatious.

Although I am not doubting it , I find the bit about the blank stare a bit strange AESF as Billy is certainly a very chatty person - and welcomed comments but not in an impolite manner (whether he took them on board only he can say). As I have posted previously, I have been out of my way to have a chat with Billy previously on a few occasions as I didn't like the aspect of the drum full stop nevermind the incoherent tunes, would be interesting to know if anybody else did in an amicable way.

With regard to JW & TF I tend to agree but it would appear they can only go on what they probably hear from certain sections of the fans with that certain section probably being the ones that don't complain if you get my meaning. Adding to that how many have actually expressed their dislike to the club?

What we should not forget is that Billy has followed the club for many a year even before the drum and at the end of the day is a True Blue.

I agree I hope nobody else takes up the mantle of another drum but at the end of the day he was only doing something that he thought contributed to the atmosphere - if those that didn't agree showed as much effort towards generating one then there would be no need for anybody to even think about a drum again.

Excellent BB I think there is journey in this as a good and catchy modern tune

My contribution

''HEAR THE EWOOD BELLS START A RINGING

ROVERS CAVALRY CHOIR IS SINGING

ARTE ET LABORE OUR WORD AND SHIELD

AS THE BLUE N WHITE ARMY TAKES TO THE FIELD

VILLANUEVA IS OUT TO SLAIN

YOU KNOW HE’S GONNA SCORE EVERY GAME

HE’S GONNA RULE EWOOD

(THEN) KING CARLOS WILL RULE THE WORLD

OHOH… OH..OH…OH''

Was in the Everton End directly opposite the Rovers Fans as where many other Rovers Fans - never seen so many Rovers in the 'home end'.

Everton fan (brick ..... house) directly in front of me went mental when we scored and many in the stand jumped and cheered - and so early on as well.

Very enjoyable and tense - after that first 10-15 mins Rovers where awful and virtually none existent in their gameplay - the nerves where beginning to show.

'Up above the streets and houses

Incey's climbing high

Everyone can see him smiling ... blue and white

Paint the whole world with an Incey!!!'

The reasoning for my thinking is just a play on factor of colour being a major thing to throw back at the media - its irrelevant and shouldn't be picked out ie first black british manager

'Up above the streets and houses

Incey's climbing high

Everyone can see him smiling ... blue and white

Paint the whole world with an Incey!!!'

Judge, tricky little player that he is, is not going to get selected ahead of Roque, Jason, Benni or Matt at the moment.

Unlikely Parson, I thought he was a midfielder.

Also travelled with the first team to the Portsmouth game by all accounts

R6 - think you need to channel you argument to why we are not producing anybody of real talent.

Hannah the blame for the appallling development of kids nowadays lies squarely at the door of the law makers who do not allow the members of your profession the proper tools and support necessary to discipline the young nor do they punish irresponsible parenting hard enough.

The welfare system is in short paying the social underclasses to breed at the expense of the more valuable members of society. Even if everything was changed tomorrow we will unfortunately continue to reap the rewards of our folly for very many years.

Something I totally agree with you on here Theno , and have been saying the same for a while.

because they know that 9 times out of 10 the ref wont give it.

That quote was referring to fouls in the box, he never gets them and defenders know this.

Fair do's licker as you see alot more of him than what we do, but I think we all know that its the same for alot of players (and teams), including your very own Lescott .

However, and this is nothing to do with media /tv reputation reporting but what I have seen myself and I'll admit I ain't no Johnson fan, but I didn't see anything different with him on Saturday to his palace (hate them) days, and he still goes to ground far too easily (you certainly don't see the likes of Owen etc doing the same). How he is anywhere near the England set up is beyond me - but that is just my opinion.

As for Wiley, as some have already posted, there where a fair few Rovers fans cringing when his name was announced as the ref as he does seem to find cards easy to wave at Rovers players however he was bad for both teams and moreso you Toffee men, and dare I say it Johnson in particular.

I don't know what its like for you guys at Goodison, but trying not to look through blinkers we feel justified to say we get a raw deal more than alot of clubs from the officials - including some very very very blatant decisions going against us.

i am starting to worry he'll never really be good enough for the top level. he's quick and instinctive but just isnt capable of putting fear into opposing defenders like top strikers can. maybe if he bulks up more and adds some strength to his game he could be effective but right now he just doesnt offer enough.

Why - he's not been given a steady run of games playing up front to be able to prove himself.

Once Hughes stops playing him out on the right and gives him his chance up front then give him judgement.

Personally I think we have a gem , and given the chance will prove it.

Lack of atmosphere seems to be a problem throughout the Premier league

Not just the Premier League - but at most games nowadays it will be the away Fans making the most noise.

The reason that people think there is atmosphere at the bigger grounds tends to be because of that particular reason - that there are more fans there- but if you go as an away fan you tend to find the only noise they make is when they score a goal.

The only ones - from experience which tend to be half decent are West Ham/Spurs and Portsmouth.

Each club has its own problems and can be equally as good or as bad as each other - Rovers are no different.

Nope i wont drum its an embarrasment......

cmon you old blackburn enders lets put our thoughts down as to what we would of done in the old days with the drum and drummer

Agree Abbey

And in answer .... exactly what used to happen with the teddy bears (and scarves sometimes)

The lad is obviously struggling with his form and I can accept that, but Jan is taking great personal delight from twisting the knife at every available oppportunity, and that is something that I do have trouble with. Not a very nice personality trait imo.

Maybe she is Theno but unlike Eddie says from his Cafe over there in 'gay Paris' or where ever he is, we can all plainly see the effort just isn't there.

I posted the other month that something is not quite right with Morten - he is looking really abject and the moment and dis-interested and IMO he looks ill, so whether he is or not we may never know until it is confirmed, but what is blatantly obvious is that he should not be be in the matchday squad at the moment on his current form

Can't say I have heard any consistent stick for him either when he has played, just the general moan when he continuously performs as he has been doing over the last 12 months.

There is out of form and out of form - to me something is seriously amiss with our Norwegian popstar.

The surreal thing about it though, it seem to take a while before any of the Rovers fans realised we had been given a penalty.

Then when we did there was just an overall general malaise feeling that he would miss because of the way we were playing.

Still doesn't take it away from the fact it was a very poorly executed penalty though.

The penalty was rubbish

Totally in agreement here Bobski - and as I have posted in the match thread and you have stated - so many people just knew he would miss it.

Absolutely spot on. Thought I was on my own on this.

I was passionate about England say when we were in the old third Division, and that was the only top flight football available as a "fan"

Now, I spend most of the season hating Beckham, Gerrard, Cole (A and J) or whoever with a passion when they play for one of the "big four", yet all of a sudden I'm meant to love them as soon as they pull a white shirt on?

Nowhere near the same for me.

Certainly not on your own Rev - note the flags at England games in the past and still nowadays - probably the reason why you see more of the lower league club fans at the games Rev.

Philip - you mean exactly like Croatia where - this is the point I have made re the 5 in midfield malarkey - Rovers where the same when we played it - maybe not as stagant but certainly not fluid. I never see the point when you should supposedly be the dominant ( home side) and to me the 5 man across midfield should only be adopted if you are away from home and needs must ) and never use in an important game if palyers are not used to it!!

Interestingly, listening to Radio Lancs somebody else said what I have posted about players not having the intelligence to take a game by the scruff of the neck and are just waiting for orders from the touchline - which is why they always look clueless

One way of looking at this is to ask yourself a question. Saturday afternoon, Rovers at home to a PL side containing an England interntional or perhaps two, would you be worried? It's a serious question. If Utd come to town Rooney is always going to be a threat, probably Hargreaves as well, possibly Owen with Newcastle, maybe Gerrard with Liverpool. After that? Name player who has the "don't let him run with it," or "close him down quick" factor. There isn't one and therein lays the poverty of English football, all the star players in the PL are foreign.

Totally agree here Paul but I'll come back to this point in a minute.

Not into this blaming Carson malarkey as any keeper could have made the same cock ups last night - as Robinson has done already in games and James has shown numerous times in the past. Yes it was the wrong decision to play him considering Robinson has been the number one keeper for the campaign but herein lies the problem.

Consistency - Mclaren has ###### about with the team so much its no wonder nobody looked like they had a clue what was going on , and as mentioned before on here many times - the bloody stupid 5 man midfield tactic! at home!! WHY???? - There where strikers on the bench capable of doing a job - why adopt a style that they are not used to as a team - and probably most as players - doesn't give the other players much hope or motivation if your manager doesn't even have confidence in you.

Now back to Paul's point - this is something I have mentioned before and the 'tactical' game that I feel is poisoning the game - alot of managers don't have a plan B, most players do not have the confidence nor the nous to try and insert some influence on a game if things are going wrong and just follow the instructions - hence you end up with a debacle like last night where all the players look clueless - and this is not unique to the England set up - its a modern theme for some strange reason.

The only thing to blame for the whole joke of an escapde is the entire England set -up (on and off the pitch) and the state of the game in general and the amount of money washing around in it.

And Lampard is back.

Yes, he has been outstanding recently, he normally is at Chelsea

Not according to the Chelsea fan I know - said he was against Leicester in the cup (as he should be) but otherwise pretty average despite scoring at Wigan.

Anyway, as many already think - they are both top midfielders on their day with loads of experience and playing for two of supposedly the best teams (opinion) in the World - there should be no reason why they cannot play together - personally I don't think they are like for like, both have good attacking attributes as well as defensive but that's about it which all good midefielders should have anyway.

If we ever consider selling Pedersen I think that Miller chappie at WBA is worth looking at, although he does seem a bit all left footed

It wont happen of course but the clowns at the FA should be the first to fall on their sword..... followed closely by Maclaren.

In addition TND , England aside, this can be and has been said about alot of things throughout the game over the past few years to date.

The game is run by a collective group of numpties - and the amount of money flowing throughout the game has only gone to make it worse especially at the top with the 'poison' slowing dripping its way down the levels.

I think Rev is fighting a losing battle with his line of argument. That said, won't it be fun if Hughes has found the formula to get Benni to produce a Brum second half type of performance most games he plays now (preferably not on a repeating three games dropped, second half blast basis!)?

He's not fighting a battle philipl , just stating the point that what alot of us got lambasted for, for having the insight to question his attitude and not be blinded by the goals, although welcome.

Not once have I or any other critic said he had to run around like a madman, this was just brought up by those who thought he could do nothing wrong.

Only Tris has raised good points previously for us critics as he has above , to which I have counter replied with explanation as have others.

What Hughes is doing/has done is only what some of us suggested, and by the look of his second half performance on Sunday and his previous sub appearance, would appear to be doing the trick.

I think last nights awful attendance v Birmingham proves that I was right all along. The only difference that cheap tickets make is in reduced revenue for the club. I do admit that it's nice to watch 2 games within a week for £15 but it's bloody awful from a business point of view! As I have said many times Blackburn neither deserves nor can support a top level football team.

Not quite TND as ths support thing would apply to many a club - how many did Birmingham bring?

As I and others have said before - last night might have been cheap but there is not as much money to go around to sepnd on Football.

I for one could not afford to go last night even at the cheaper prices as I have other commitments for my monies.

Its not considered an important aspect from the Clubs either looking at the teams put out across the board over the 2 nights so why should fans treat it any different? Bar certain clubs and maybe certain games the draws serve up, traditionally its never reallya good crowd drawer anyway.