joey_big_nose

I am going tomorrow, can't wait. Reckon we should go 352 and aim to dominate the midfield. As Dack tires get A Wharton on second half. No point going 343, cede the midfield, and then not be able to use the wide players anyway. Kaminski Carter Hyam Wharton Brittain Travis Buckley Pickering Dack Hedges Brereton Subs : Pears, Ayala, Mola, A Wharton, Edun, Gallagher, Dolan Quite a few attacking players don't even make squad... Hirst, Markanday, Szmodics, Vale... we are top heavy in the squad imo. Could do with having one less of there and another experienced defender or midfielder.

Think it will be Walker, Stones, Maguire when we're 3 at the back. Think we will start 4 at the back though as we kick off with Iran. Probs Walker drops out. Then not sure if we will go 343 or 4231 for US or Wales?

I hear this a lot - that playing three at the back is about making the defence more solid. There is part of that in there but it is as much about plotting where you are going to concentrate your players to create chances going forward as shoring up at the back. Plenty of sides with good defenders have played 343 - Man City last season, Chelsea under Conte a few years back, Spurs under Conte now, Bayern Munich and Barcelona used it. It's not just "bad teams use three at the back, good teams use four at the back". It's been part of winning a lot of trophies. 343 let's you overload the wide areas and stretch the pitch. You could see England do that to Germany loads on Monday night as the Germans played 4231 and we could double up on them out wide. Whereas Italy played 352 so matched us up out wide and completely nullified us, and also had an extra man in the middle to stop us passing through. We didn't figure that out (and my worry would be other teams will try 352 against us). It's horses for courses really. We could go 4231 ourselves and get to play a number 10 so theoretically we are more offensive. But... maybe we will actually get much more offensive joy (as we did against the Germans) by not having a number 10 but have an extra cb so the wing backs can get really far forward. 343 can be an offensive choice. Anyway - my guess - based on what happened at the Euros and last WC - is we will play 4231 against the minnows and then 343 against the big teams.

Barring injury he's definitely starting, Agreed. What's bizarre is a Scudetto winner and CL player who is getting rave reviews in a position we are are weak in has hardly had a shake. Would AC Milan swap Tomori for Maguire? I doubt it.

I think James and Shaw did okay, I'm sure they'll both start. Saka was so good when he came on I could see one of Foden or Sterling being dropped. Maguire was generally pretty good today but two really poor mistakes. I think he should get dropped as you can't afford to give goals away. We can play Walker, Stones and Dier across the back. But Southgate isn't going to drop him, or he would have by now.

3-2 - been a quality game!

2-2. Apart from a couple of shocking moments from Maguire we've been pretty good.

I've seen lumberjacks fell trees with more subtlety than Maguire hacking down the German lad.

Looking at the lineups - Germany have not matched up 343, they've gone 4231. So it should maybe be a better game and a bit more free flowing as the sides wont directly cancel each other out. England will be able to double up on their full backs, but Germany will have an additional player through the middle. On top of that Stones should add a bit of passing quality to the back line, and Shaw gives us a proper left foot so we can use the width. In terms of the XI its a clear indication that the world cup team is pretty settled despite the results. Maguire still in there, Bellingham and Rice, Stones back, Stones, Foden, Sterling all in.

To kind of go back about what I said about things hardly likely to change, I suppose there is a chance given just how badly England have performed last five games that maybe Southgate will go for a big change. Can't really see it though. Team for tonight I would slightly modify the lineup to have five in midfield, let the full backs bomb on, rather than congesting the wide areas, and get Foden on the ball centrally to try and link things up. Ramsdale Walker Stones Tomori James Bellingham Foden Rice Shaw Kane Sterling

I'd put my money that first game the following nine will defo start fit. Southgate is a creature of habit... Pickford, Walker, Stones, James, Rice, Bellingham, Sterling, Foden, Kane Maguire would have been an absolute shoo-in but things going so badly for him can see him being dropped (but who for?). And left wing back will be a toss-up between Shaw and Chilwell (as there aren't any other options). Can't really see how it would be much different to the above really. There's only one game prior to opening of WC, and while someone like Toney, Grealish, Saka or Abraham could have an absolute blinder tomorrow it's unlikley to drastically change things in terms of starting lineup. For me anyway it's not really the personnel that's the issue. Lots of good players. It's how they are being setup and used.

Yeah - 2004 had a great set of attacking players, but none of them wanted to play wide. Scholes, Gerard, Lampard all wanted to play as attacking centre mids breaking in the box, Rooney loved dropping off into the same sort of number 10 space. We had no left sided midfielders at all, Beckham on the right was hardly a winger either. He liked to drift centrally or play early balls in rather than getting to the by-line. And because we had to fit that lot of attacking players in the team we then ended up having no holding midfielder either. All a recipe for team that didn't really work in terms of balance and shape. If you gave me a choice between the midfield and strikers of 2004 or 2022 while clearly 2004 had the better individuals, I would be tempted to go for the 2022 set. I know that sounds ridiculous on the run we're on, but tbh I think part of the reason we've done well at 2018 and 2021 is that we've been able to build a team with the right balance, not just an all star team of big names who don't fit together at all. That Southgate hasn't managed to find the right fluid setup currently when he's got solid or exceptional players in every position on the pitch is very concerning. Got one game tomorrow to get it right.

Very true. Real shame for all the young talent coming through there isn't a deep lying playmaker in there. Closest we've produced in that style the last 10 years is Harry Winks but lacks international quality. Maybe something for Adam Wharton to aim for?!

To be fair he is the most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. I know there's a lot of soft draw chat etc, but he made a semi and a final in back to back tournaments and no one has got remotely near that in 50 years. I have a vague hope that he'll find a the right setup in the next 50 days. Looks a bit fanciful though atm.

Thought Southgate has generally been tactically very good for most of his time. We had a weak squad in 2018 and a decent but patchy squad in 2021 but got to the semis and final and looked competitive even when we went out. Totally tactically did the Germans in 2021. But he's all at sea at the moment, and with a very good set of players

Agreed... Really just felt very similar to Luton Vs Rovers. Missing a player in midfield, wide players barely involved. Never ever got going.

I've always thought Southgate has got more out of the sum of the squads parts. But last 12 months started thinking thats no longer the case. Today some major tactical errors. Our offensive players saw very little of the ball. Italy should have won by more. Team didn't look motivated. Tried some changes which gave us a brief offensive boost, but more fragile defensively. Didn't have a single period of dominance against Italy who - while European champions - didn't qualify for the world cup, and just lost 5-0 against Germany. Hmmm.

To be fair we look immediately a lot better ..

The lineup and non subs suggests to me this was England's first XI. Just gone 4231. Don't really see how that helps us?

Assumed he was... Abraham then obvious choice.

Should get Sterling off, bring on Toney on to play in a two with Kane and drop Foden into central midfield. Its so daft the 343. The wing backs can't get forward because they are crowded out by their own wide forwards. Go 352 and everyone's a winner. We get an extra centre mid to compete. Kane gets a partner to help get the ball to stick, and the wing backs have the room to bomb on.

Very few teams play 442 sadly. Gets picked off in different ways by other formations. Just watching the England Italy game where it's devolved into a three at the back stalemate, and as interesting and sensible as the tactical game is, you do miss the 90s when virtually everybody would play 442 and play relentlessly end to end.

Wonder if we will fail to match up at half time and they do us second half. TBF Italy wasted a few decent opportunities first 10 mins.

Its funny the way England playing today is very reminiscent of Luton Vs Rovers. We've got three forwards on but can't get the ball to them, Italy have an extra midfielder so are dominating the center of the pitch.

I like Toney a lot. A real all-rounder. Will watch the game tonight with interest. Nations League splits opinions but for me I'd take it over a friendly any time. England now have a very good squad who should be showing why they are contenders for the world cup. Only thing that worries me is the central defence. Still up in the air and unconvincing. Kane, Bellingham, Rice, James, Saka, Foden, Grealish all super players. Just need to get it all clicking. Will get a real sense playing Italy away in a competitive game where we are at.