Owen did criticise himself and his team-mates - but in a typically understated way. He said something about how many of the England players don't replicate their club form for their country and he included himself in that (more for diplomatic reasons than anything else).

As was the case with the Blackburn players after Souey left.

Because England were crud barring part of a match with 10 men? I have to say, a lot of the teams have been under-par - Holland, France, England, Brazil, even Italy haven't played that well.

Just for the record, Podolski and Kehl performed a dive apiece. As did Ronaldo.

Sorry for having the temerity to start this topic despite not being allocated to do a preview - but I'm guessing no-one else can be bothered. If someone has spent the last two weeks preparing an immaculate piece of literature on this match, please just shove this aside. Germany v Portugal: Background So who cares who finishes third at the World Cup? Well the Germans do. After their dramatic exit at the hands of Christian Grosso (Spurs fans must've been surprised) and Alessandro Del Piero (he's signing for Spurs) in the semis, this serves as an opportunity to lick their wounds in public. The Germans were one of the few teams that played up to their potential in this World Cup - and for that they should be praised. Portgual manager, Quite Tall Phil Scolari, has cast doubts about his teams capacity to play in this match. Weather reports suggest that there will be a gentle breeze blowing and if this does prove true, many of the Portuguese players will be troubled and may even tumble to the ground in a dying-swan kind of way. [OKLAHOMA THIS IS A BAD JOKE]. Portgual do deserve credit for getting this far bearing in mind they played the whole tournament with 10 men and a Jon Stead fan who goes by the name of Pauleta. Team News All the players of the two squads are desperate to fulfill their dreams by playing in this match. Michael Ballack opts out with cash-flow problems, so Tim Borowski is set to partner Frings in central midfield. Jens Lehmann has generously said he would step-aside to allow Oliver Kahn to play this game but the grumpy one told him where to go. Bastian Schweinsteiger will return to the left flank to resume his excellent partnership with Phillip Neville down the left. (He actually runs like Neville - believe me). Portgual have a few problems of their own. Ricardo Carvalho misses this game as a result of helping Thierry Henry to the ground, Caneira may deputise. Nifty but injured full-back, Miguel, makes way for Paulo Ferreira Players to Watch Germany: Miroslav Klose: The Polish born German striker looks certain to win the Golden Boot and a goal or two in this game will make that an inevitability. Portugal: Cristiano Ronaldo: Will he dive? Will he cry? Will he score after a mazy dribble to silence the jeers? Will an England fan hurdle the stewards, get on the pitch and slice him up into myriad small pieces and then sell them as bratwurst? Prediction The MOTD pundit team to make many derogatory and disrespectful comments and generally bore the pants of the viewers with their smugness. Oh and Germany to win cos I have a few of their players in my fantasy team.

Italy for me. No particular reason except I dislike them less than the French team. Anyone who has Sylvain Wiltord coming off the bench shouldn't be winning a World Cup. (Cue Eddie to reel off Wiltord's amazing goal record in Ligue 1)

You also missed Spurs legend, Jose Dominguez. :ph34r:

Incidentally, Oklahoma, do you think Scolari would've done a better job picking Luis Boa Morte - either on the wing or as a second striker? He's a risk due to his hot-headedness but he was outstanding for Fulham last year and has the physical presence and pace that Deco severely lacked.

Eddie, Rio Ferdinand said he was 'embarrassed' by England's achievements at the World Cup. The fraudster himself, Sven, admitted it wasn't good enough and Gary Neville, also contrite, stated that there were no excuses, ENgland didn't play well enough and therefore did not deserve to go any further. In the light of these comments, how on earth can you put a positive slant on England's campaign? They lost against a team that had as much goal threat as Sunderland last year.

I was fooled in over-estimating Sven and thinking that he had a plan to use Walcott's searing pace to England's advantage. But now I believe that Sven had some half-formed idea of Walcott coming off the bench to trouble tired defenders but saw him in training once the squad was picked and realised he wasn't ready or didn't have the confidence to perform on the big stage. However, surely this is a moot point. If Bent, Ashton or Michael Ricketts had been taken - would they have played in the knock-out stages? No. Crouch was always the next choice behind Owen and Rooney. We may as well argue about why Jermaine Jenas was taken to the World Cup.

For all the criticism Pauleta has received, just look as his goal record. He's a poacher (like Owen) and cannot play on his own up front, he needed help and never got it from Deco. England will probably not get as good a chance to win the World Cup in the near future as they had in this tournament. Apart from the Argies, none of the teams were that good.

Eddie, your belief in England is remarkable. Especially after that shambles. Maybe you should accept that you were wrong in hyping up England as potential champs. I still don't think Italy are that good but their defence is certainly impressive and anyone who thinks Gary Neville is a world class full back needs to watch Zambrotta in action. An England team managed by a real manager could beat them imo.

Souness was scared off by Jeffers' price tag - back then.

Gera playing blind-folded would probably out-perform Emerton. Not to be too harsh on our World Cup star. Wasn't the problem with Roberts at WBA that he ran defences ragged but proceeded to miss the glorious chances that were presented to him? Now he seems to have found the confidence to find the net, he's sure to be a decent signing.

Weren't Jeffers and Roberts one time Souey targets for Rovers?

Any guesses at the fee? Besiktas lodged a £2 million bid, I think. I'd guess it'd be something like 2.5.

Don't worry, Lampard and Gerrard are starting to gel.

Pace and power - just what we needed. Perhaps not the most prolific or skilful but Roberts can trouble the best of defences.

Can the comparisons with Shefki Kuqi stop right here. Many people were sceptical about Kuqi's ability and even Ipswich fans admitted that his lack of techique was not totally obliterated by his whole-hearted approach. HOWEVER, Kuqi arrived at Rovers after winning Ipswich's PLayer of the Season award ahead of Darren Bent and others. He was arguably playing the best football of his career. Francis Jeffers, meanwhile, has been in the doldrums. If Hughes rekindles the guy's talents, he is officially a genius. He would have succeeded where Wenger, Moyes, Curbishley and McLeish have all failed. I fear however that Jeffers will push Paul Gallagher down the pecking order (who was returning to form at Stoke) and ultimately not contribute much to Blackburn. Jeffers is like Dickov but without the tenacity and workrate. I hope to be proven wrong.

He looked terrified. Somehow I doubt Michael Ballack would have reacted like that. Gerrard is a fantastic player but he, like Lampard, has not done it for England.

American, totally right. That central midfield that should have started day one of this tournament. However, Sven did not have the fortitude to drop Lampard (who is inferior to Gerrard). BTW: If Flopsy's going to do his lines, i may as well do mine. 1000 times: "Sven likes 17 year old boys who aren't ready for international footy."

Does anyone think it's the English mentality that is fallible rather than the technique or practice. It happens so often, I just get the feeling that our players aren't mentally strong enough.

American, Germany's back-up strikers have, if I remember rightly, contributed ONE goal (Oliver Neuville). Are you suggesting that this one goal is the difference between a superbly performing, gutsy, passionate, entertaining German side (who aren't the most talented side around) and England?

I agree with you there. Regardless of the others, we should try to keep the English league and team clean from cheating.

Please don't pedal this one. I supported Sven on picking Walcott because it seemed to me that he was shaking of his obsession with pandering to the media, club managers and players. For once he got people's noses up by leaving out Defoe and Bent. He actually backed his own judgment for once. I was fooled into thinking he had changed and had a plan. Ultimately, I was wrong but not for one moment did I think Sven was a good manager. My now infamous signature stated that Sven had restored a 'modicum' of my faith in him. On numerous occasions I have sparred with Flopsy, arguing that despite Sven managing to qualify England for tournaments and getting out of the group stage, he was a crap manager - and I stick to that.