Oops, sorry, didn't read your post in context, hence the irrelevant points. I get what you mean now. I was reading up on Tugay's career (as you do) and it's easy to forget what a successful one it's been. He's won like five Turkish leagues and 4 domestic cups (two double triumphs I think). ANd he's got all those international caps. Not to mention the Worthy Cup with us. I'd have loved to see him play in his heyday when he was banging in double figures from midfield and his seemingly mandatory position in the national team was in jeopardy due to his 'wild man' reputation.

LeChuck, I think you've gone amiss by comparing our midfield system to Arsenal. Superficially it is similar but if you delve a little deep we are a lot different. Arsenal played with a double-pivot (and still do) - namely they play with two central midfielders who hold the fort and do not really break forward into the box to score goals. Vieira did not get forward - rather he and Petit formed a very solid double in the centre to allow the full backs and the wide players freedom to get forward without excessive concern about defensive gaps appearing. With Rovers, we have Tugay who is alone in playing deep and looking to create with incisive passing, whilst the A.Nother alongside him (Savage/Reid) look to get up and down the pitch. In the modern game, Rovers are almost unique in playing a deep-lying playmaker - and arguably it means we are easier to beat. Benitez could play Alonso deep alongside Gerrard - in a Rovers style midfield couple. However, usually he opts not to, shunting Gerrard out wide to provide Alonso defensive support in the form of Sissoko. And hasn't David Moyes shoved Mikel Arteta out to the left flank to accommodate the more rugged pair of Carsley and Neville centrally? When people say we need to replace Tugay, many think we need to find a like player - as in a playmaker. I disagree. We need to fall into the mainstream and replace Tugay with a holding midfielder who can not only hold but defend.

Great to keep the winning feeling going. I just wonder, hasn't Ooijer been playing RB for PSV? In which case the transition to regular CB could take time - or perhaps he isn't as good a central defender as he is a full back.

1-1 Heskey and zura on the scoresheet

In terms of a composed central midfielder who can pass, we don't have anyone other than Tugay - which is a problem.

Looking at the replays, anyone notice that for the first goal, Gamst makes the sublime pass to Benni from the half-way line, and seconds later, once McCarthy's done his skill to beat his man, it's Gamst piling into the box looking for a return pass? (During which time Nonda is ambling about without intent, on the edge of the box). That is classic Pedersen, bursting a gut to try and pick up the pieces in the opposition penalty area. I'm really pleased that he's put in a long overdue good performance and hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

Emerton is starting to make up for lost time. He arrived in England with grand ideas about playing in midfield - something he was evidently never made out for. Remember when he first arrived, he was playing with almost a free role (the Genc game away sticks in the mind) and whilst he looked alright, he messed up the balance of the team. At RB, he has more time on the ball, and not being a player with high game intelligence (that's a Benitezism btw) that suits him much better than right midfield. You need a certain amount of vision and intuition to play right mid and Emo hasn't got enough of that.

We won a European tie. Bloody hell.

Commission on transfer dealings for management is a recipe for corruption and conflict of interests. Definite no. And besides, is Mark Bowen going to persuaded to abandon a career in management at a big city club for money. I doubt it.

Imo we should be looking for a player like Jagielka. If we had a strong tough tackling central midfielder who can pass a bit, it would allow greater freedom to either Reid or Savage to get forward. When you have a defensively weak playmaker in the middle of the park, the other central midfielder is restricted in his forward forays. Why does Benitez play Sissoko alongside Alonso so often? Players like Alonso, Tugay and Arteta are great to watch, when on form, but are also weaknesses in the team if not incorporated properly.

3-2 Salzburg. A dramatic failure by Rovers in Europe.

Boro 0 Rovers 1 Still don't see Southgate being a successful manager. Curbs is keeping himself available...

ou The most useful criteria in this debate, imo, are how predictable was it that the player would flop and how much did we spend on the aforementioned flop? Using that criteria, Kevin Davies is by no means Rovers worst signing. He was a useful player at Saints - so much so that clubs like Arsenal were inquiring about him but Arsene Wenger publicly stated that he thought Southampton's valuation was ridiculous. Davies had Prem experience and youth and nationality on his side. You can see why we signed him, although the fee was absurd. Amongst the worst, based on this criteria, are surely Lorenzo Amoruso and Corrado Grabbi (if you agree with my thinking that their chances of success at Rovers were bleak from the outset). Lorenzo Amoruso was getting out-thought and out-paced by John Hartson the season before we signed him. He was old (32) and Souness admitted that he had problems with maintaining concentration that sometimes lead to farcical errors but was adamant that the Italian would be a positive influence with his leadership qualities, on and off the pitch. WRONG! £2 million was almost as criminal as Birmingham paying Rovers to have Dwight Yorke. A quick Google search would have told Rovers' scouts that Corrado Grabbi had been bouncing from lower league club to lower league club for the majority of his career after leaving Juve. All of which should have had any interested party suspicious before they found out that Grabbi's exploits at Ternana was his first decent season in Serie B and he had played on the left of a three-pronged attack and had taken a number of penalties to earn him topscorer status and he had played alongside the very useful Fabrizio Miccolli. Unless your name is Luca Toni, a journeyman striker does not go from journeying to being a £7 million pound superstar. If we had signed Massimo Maccorone and he had flopped as he has at Boro, you could kind of forgive the scouts and the manager because you could see that at the time the guy was rated as the next big thing in Italy.

I think this game exposed the negative side of Tugay. we need someone who can pass but can defend. I don't think Mokoena's the answer although he may yet prove me wrong.

Research commissioned by the BRFCS Institute for the Further Understanding of Simple and Sub-simple Life-forms in Galaxies of Little or Sub-little Importance. Abstract: Adopting Earthling form through the process of type-B molecular absuction, I, Rover6, travelled to Planet 8#8345566^42a [‘Earth’] to research and report back on the imminent recreational confrontation intended by two Earthling tribal groups, Blackburn Rovers and Man City. Verdict: The operation was successful and the report submitted before the deadline set by High Operator of BRFCS, Den. Thus, banishment from Planet BRFCS and subsequent Eternal Universal Flotsam Treatment was avoided. Minor subterranean grey matter displacement was suffered as a result of the molecular absuction process but otherwise the operation was unerring. Methodology: Earthling form was taken, specifically, quadri-limbed thorax, one head covered by lank, dark follicle growth. The description Grabbi Isgay was adopted as a sufficiently unobtrusive Earthling name. Findings: Blackburn Rovers: On infiltration of the Blackburn proselyte, it soon became apparent that confidence is low. Reasons for this include a poor crop harvest, rising immigration and the inability of Blackburn’s representative warriors to win football matches. Four confrontations have been endured and no victories have been established. This has left the tribal group second from last in the list of achievement founded by the Premier League authority. Reasons for this inefficiency are manifold. Firstly, the key representative midfield players, Morten Gamst Pedersen and Steven Reid, are suffering World Cup hangovers. An ailment usually associated with actually playing in a World Cup, it is submitted that their visionary organs have been exhausted by watching World Cup confrontations on television and this has affected their form. Secondly, Finnish/Albanian witchdoctor, Shefki Kuqi, has departed, meaning that his ability to curse the opposition into submission is no more. Kuqi was forced out by the now infamous Senator Benni McCarthy-orchestrated witch-hunt, taking refuge in the palace of the Kingdom of Crystal. Thirdly, chief, Mark Hughes, has opted not to re-enforce his midfield with creative force and pace, resulting in a deficiency in chance creation for new recruits, Jason Roberts, Fanny Jeffers and Senator Benni McCarthy. Man City: There is not much to say about this tribe barring the fact that they only permit males, as suggested by their name, into their collective. It is not clear, in which case, an exception has been made for Paul Dickov – unless his name is used as a sophisticated bluff and not proof of his gender re-alignment experience. There are merely two genders in the Earthling species and Blackburn Rovers represent the more liberal tribes in allowing females into their clan (Robbie Savage, Fanny Jeffers etc.). Man City lie 10th in the list of achievement having been successful in defeating Arsenal. (pre- Reading tie). Notable earthlings: Fanny Jeffers: This artist is known by the title ‘Fox in the Box.’ She earned the nickname as a result of her most esoteric of her varied artistic works. The Earthling art world was astounded with the sheer audacity of Jeffers when she submerged an urban fox in a container of formaldehyde and pronounced it art. Thus, the now famous nickname was born. It is rumoured that Arsenal Wenger was so enraptured by this artistic achievement, that he spent £10 million to bring the remarkable display to London. Others have suggested that Wenger was actually seduced by the ostentatious ears of Jeffers (a mark of beauty amongst Earthlings) and a brief but passionate relationship ensued. As a result of the artistic counter-revolution, Jeffers was consigned to the wilderness and forced to re-invent herself as a world-class diving instructor to survive. It remains to be seen if Blackburn benefit. [Edit enacted: Jeffers may miss the clash if his 3 match ban in not overturned this week.] Ben Thatcher: This player will not feature in the confrontation due to him being quarantined by his tribe. Thatcher suffers from a rare Earthling syndrome known as ‘Tennis Elbow.’ Sufferers are liable to suddenly believe that their elbow is a tennis racket and that a nearby person’s face is a ball, and an impact must result to ensure match point is not wasted. It is submitted that Thatcher is an Earthling to watch, not because he will influence the game in a telepathic manner, but because he may pose a threat to any BRFCS planetary member who makes the 268.77a light year journey to attend the confrontation, should he escape from his cell. Personnel News: Blackburn Rovers: Michael Gray is out with excess libido and a bruised face. Lucas Neill may continue to play as the opposition’s secret weapon. The availabilities of Steven Reid and Roberts are still unclear, although Ryan Nelsen will miss the event through long-term injury incurred whilst escaping from the clutches of media mogul Lord Arry of Redknapp. Man City: This event could see the first exposure of versatile right urinal star DeMarcus Beasley to English climactic conditions. Man City engage in a bizarre display of strength by Reading holy texts today and casualties may be incurred and force withdrawals for next week. Conclusion: Despite what has been rumoured, the outcome of this confrontation will not decide the future of this particular galactic region. Earthling destructive capacity only extends to the nuclear sundering of minor continents – which is a very unlikely consequence of this tie. It is suggested that the outcome will depend upon another event, namely Blackburn Rovers Imperial operations in Country Austria in UEFA Jug competition. Should Rovers suffer another defeat, morale will diminish and Man City will earn a comfortable victory. However, if Rovers win or earn a creditable stalemate, they are likely to find a another stalemate against Man City – 1-1. Due to the large distance from Earth, our planet BRFCS should not be affected seriously by the outcome. If Rovers are defeated, those of octa-neuro-capacity may experience an uncharacteristic desire for immediate death or, less seriously, immediate regime-change. However, these symptoms are nothing that a few beers and a good night’s kip won’t exacerbate.

Just a question for people, is it me or does Robbie Savage always get let off lightly whenever he has a average/poor game. It seems to be the bonus that goes with being a technically limited central midfielder. (Garry Flitcroft's anonymity was often effective enough to avoid influence on matches and in the fans' analyses.) Shouldn't we be expecting more from Robbie Savage? People acknowledge that he 'ran around' and did 'usual Savage stuff of tackling and trying' but the analysis rarely goes further than that. We're all quick to point out Gamst's deficiencies. I'm not saying this particularly in response to this game but generally from what I've read, people seem to assume a game in which Savage ran around is a par performance for him. But seeing as he has a bit of licence to get forward when he plays alongside Tugay, we should be demanding more from him.

Another astonishingly fast defender. And as for the person who asked if we're that desperate - no, if we were THAT desperate, Mokoena would be playing CB.

Sunderland fans are yawning into their tabloids at this one. Allegedly peeing through letter boxes, not allegedly but turning up in a Ferrari the day Sunderland went into administration...etc...etc. They've heard the Gray shenanigans before - not least of all the salacious.

Kuqi was Ipswich's Player of the Season the year he departed (ahead of Darren Bent, I believe) so he'll do well for Palace no doubt. Simon Jordan has set Peter Taylor the task of getting Palace up immediately (a job too daunting for the might Souey even) and I think that's all Taylor's worried about. Kuqi's suitability for the Premiership is irrelevant to him, I guess. Paul Dickov was considered not fitting for the Prem for so long and then he had that season under Mickey Adams (the freebie revolution that ended so disastrously) where he scored something like 12 goals. Kuqi could have a season like that left in him. BTW I still think Dickov isn't fit for purpose, to use a contemporary phrase, in the Premiership but he did a job.

Peter Crouch's form is hopefully putting Michael Owen's talents into perspective. Whenever anyone has the audacity to doubt Owen's credentials as England first teamer, his goal record is brought up and used as proof of his indispensable ability. Similarly, Beckham's assists and occasional crucial goal were apparently evidence that England could not cope without him on the right - despite his predictable lack of form in tournaments. Well Crouch's goal record, over less games, is better than Owen's and I think we can see now that scoring goals at international level is not reserved for the creme de la creme of world football. It's about being a good striker, who has the luxury of a run of games in the starting eleven and has the chance of building some confidence with some goals. That's how players like Pauleta have etched amazing international goal scoring feats into the record books without being truly world class. I would not be surprised if Jermaine Defoe starts scoring regularly for England now that he's off the mark and is expected to be first choice alongside Crouch. Imo a confident Jermaine Defoe rivals Michael Owen for talent. Owen is more clinical but Defoe has more skill, better at linking play and can score from long range.

Cole will be claiming 'victimisation' within seconds if that happens...

Well we didn't do as badly as Boro. They blew £6 million on Huth, signed Woodgate who'll get injured and Euell who isn't up to much. Arca's a good signing as long as he's fit and not played left back.

Where does this signing leave Jeffers? A player trying to rehabilitate after consistent decline will not get anywhere with occasional sub appearances. I think Hughes has realised that he's signed a dud.

Whilst it's obvious that Mido deemed Rovers to be below him (but we may as well accept that a lot of players think that) I'm surprised that he is ready to go back to Spurs after they originally lost interest in signing him, despite a relatively good season.. Jol is panicking after the shaky start.

For the first game and a half and then Tugay will look every bit the 36 year old veteran with sprightly 20 somethings running rings around him. It's amazing how every time Tugay has a spell out of the team, many fans forget that despite being a fantastically talented player, he is very old and inconsistent and cannot, these days, string 3/4 good performances in a row.