I have supported Pedersen from some harsh criticism in the past but for the love of God, why will Hughes not give him the kick up the backside he needs and bench him for Peter? Hughes is way too cautious in this respect - favouring experience almost unconditionally. As for the strikers - with Roberts out injured, only Nonda and Derbyshire, imo, can realistically partner Benni. Gallagher and Jeffers don't offer the pace to complement McCarthy's 'delicate' game.

It's all about ambition. Liverpool could've settled with Djimi Traore as their utility man defender - after all he played in the Champs League final and did a fair enough job as a CB at times. (Although, at other times his passing ability was sheer embarrassment). However, even as a squad player, Liverpool's management recognised that they could do better than Traore with his bambi impressions with the ball at his feet. They had ambition and higher sights for this club., whilst no doubt acknowledging Traore's contribution. I have huge respect for Mark Hughes and what he's achieved so far at Rovers, but I believe that by signing on a player as limited as Mokoena he has shown a lack of ambition for this footy club. That's assuming Mokoena is his long-term utility man. If Hughes proceeds to sign a new defensive midfielder, it just begs the question, not of ambition, but what's the point of giving Mokoena such a long deal if he has been ordained to sink down the pecking order. And for those who are comparing Mokoena favourably to Douglas - I wouldn't be so hasty. Douglas was no great shakes but his proficiency on the ball imo was superior to that of Mokoena. It's unfair to compare the two so superficially when you consider that Douglas TRIED to achieve much more on the football pitch. He tried to get forward and create and score - whilst defending as well. Mokoena's aspirations (being a defensive midfielder through and through) are much more limited.

crap almighty

Charlton have been playing crap but taking the lead and doggedly holding onto it for large sections of matches. Surely won't happen again today....

Nice preview, Eddie. You're right about the next Puskas btw. A really scrappy game finishing 1-1.

Benitez has given himself a problem by buying too many players. It's all very well giving yourself options but with the influx of new signings brings instability in the hierarchy of the squad (unless dealt with properly) and the frustrations of dropped players will surely weaken team morale. And some players just need regular starts to find their feet. Jermaine Pennant is not going to be the quality winger he is making sub appearances. and desultory starts. However, I cannot see Benitez being given the sack barring something disastrous. Once he sorts his rotation fetish out, Liverpool will be fine.

He did a job in an ultra-defensive side. A real defensive midfielder cannot only defend but can pass. I wonder how many knowledgable but crucially objective football fans of other clubs would name Mokoena as an "outstanding" holding midfielder. We got thumped by Newcastle and Gresko and Tiny were horrendous in the full-back positions. Relative to the previous incumbent of the left back spot, Nils Eric Johansson, Gresko was outstanding. However, normally speaking he was reasonable with the well-timed return to form and fitness of Damien Duff making things a lot easier for him as Duffers propelled us up the league. Please name me another "holding midfielder" who is bad in all other positions? And I'm talking of a 'spoiler' not a playmaker like Tugay. The answer is very few - if at all. In the modern game "holding midfield" is not a specialist position. It is just a position that is filled by defenders or central midfielders, with adjustments made to their game. Thus, Radostin Kishishev was employed quite effectively (although the fans didn't like him) as a holding midfielder. Phil Neville out-performed Patrick Vieira in that role in a few Man U-Arsenal ties. Abdoulaye Faye is sometimes put their by Allardyce, when he's not playing CB. Claude Makelele was tremendous as a defensive midfielder but is equally adept in a normal midfield role. The fact Mokoena, unlike the aforementioned players, is inept in any other position is testament to the fact he is a terrible player whose weaknesses were disguised whilst he played a destructive role in an ultra-defensive team. Now that we are out of that survival phase and actually want to play football - he is exposed. And further, why should Mokoena need to be good in any other position? Well, because Hughes has been eulogising about Mokoena's versatility. Does not that mean that he should be capable in a number of roles? Finally, I will finish my retort with the comments of a Cercle Brugge fan on the official mboard:

And Mark Hughes' son was given playing time with Rovers reserves in pre-season. DISGRACEFUL. :ph34r:

Just like Graeme Souness saw a lot more of Jon Douglas than even the most dedicated fan, so obviously his judgement was infallible in awarding him a new contract. I will respectfully acknowledge any argument putting forward the merits of Mokoena. But the convenient proposition - "the manager knows the players, therefore is right FULLSTOP" - is just weak, unless you are someone who will always accept that the manager is right. I find it very strange that Hughes hasn't given Mokoena regular run-outs for the reserves. I am of the belief that should he start in central midfield for the second string, his level would become apparent. When Hughes makes a comment like, "He (Mokoena) provides us with a lot of options as he can fill a number of roles in the team," does not the objective football fan within start asking a few questions? I think I have bored everyone enough with my view on Mokoena - but I just hope that when the time comes, the relevant side of the house will be grovelling in their apology for ever doubting the other.

Of course, if we bring in a central midfielder (as we probably need to) will Mokoena make it onto the bench? Bearing in mind he's such a woeful defender? I just do not buy this myth that Mokoena is a fantastic holding midfielder. It, imo, ranks alongside the myth that Vratty Gresko was undeniably outstanding in his initial loan spell with us. A fantastic holding midfielder can play in other roles - like Jagielka, Makelele or even the less than fantastic Abdoulaye Faye of Bolton who has been often used as a CB as well as DM. It seems that these myths become apparent reality through repetition. And imo, they're 'invented' to justify the signing of a bad player by the manager by the 'our manager cannot do wrong' persona in fans. Mokoena did a job for us in a 5 man midfield. That doesn't mean that he will be able to do that job in the future - see Douglas, Stead, Amoruso, Tiny, Andresen....etc. He has his new deal - and I'm prepared to put my reputation on the line (*insert sarcastic comment here*) that Aaron Mokoena will rapidly fall into the dregs of our squad and play a minimal role in the future of this club. It's already starting - he wasn't even trusted to deputise for Tugay today. Hughes has made a mistake. An ambitious club needs squad players who can be relied upon to start games.

Really didn't expect us to win this with Fulham in good form. Also, how promising was the line-up on the bench. Gally, Derbs and Peter, home-grown/developed players actually being involved on matchdays - more of the same please Hughes. My elation was slightly dented though, on hearing that Aaron Mokoena has been rewarded (or does that imply desert?) with a new contract.

You mustn't fall into the trap of judging SWP by his Chelsea showings. He just hasn't fitted in and the fact he is in and out of the team isn't helping him perform. He wouldn't be the first classy player to sign for Chelsea and hardly excel to their max - Damien Duff or Chris Sutton...to mention two familiar names. SWP a head down runner? Do you remember his left foot 25 yard thunder-bolt against Villa? Some of the goals he scored for Man City were stupendous and he showed he was capable of playing right-wing back, right wing and even played up front under Kevin Keegan. I assure you, when (if) SWP moves on, he will reassert himself as one of the foremost talents in this country. His diffident nature is probably what is holding himself back at Chelsea, as he desperately jockeys for some breathing space amongst the egos and reputations.

SWP would be a better signing than Craig Bellamy. You only need to talk to a Man City fan to realise what a superb player he is. For whatever reason, he hasn't settled at Chelsea - but players like him don't lose their talent just like that.

Don't be silly Philip. By that logic, rather than having a decent CB as back-up to Nelsen and Ooijer, in Zurab, we should've settled for keeping Nils Eric Johansson. After all, at times he did a job, with good grace.....(actually with no grace whatsoever but u know what I mean.) Rovers can do better than Mokoena. It's all very well saying that he can come on for the last 20 and use his bulk to obliterate the opposition's view of the goal. BUT what happens when we're losing and need a player to revive us in central midfield? What happens when a starter gets injured in the first minute and Mokoena is required to play as a normal central midfielder, not some one-dimensional spoiler? And is he that good defensively anyway? A specialist spoiler who impersonates Tiny Taylor in allowing Matt Taylor to get by him? Or does a rather uncanny impression of Darren Peacock when trying to compete with Teddy Sheringham in the air? I think Hughes (and guys on this board) have to accept that Mokoena is a bad player. He may have his uses at times, like Jon Douglas and Lorenzo Amoruso had their uses. However, there is no way that Mokoena should remain with us for too much longer - even in a utility role. He's not good enough for that. Passing ability and basic technique are, despite the worryingly common contrary perception, are of paramount importance in a defensive midfielder. Think about it - a defensive midfielder is usually the deepest lying midfielder - if he makes a wayward pass - he is gifting the opposition a chance to go at an unguarded defence. Mokoena's lack of technique and passing capacity will be a liability.

When Tugay drops out of the team, we are going to struggle without Reid back in.

On Okkas, who is coming here for a trial according to skysports, I'm a little perplexed as to why Olympiakos would allow him to come on trial. Do they want to get rid of him? okay, i know this is a predictable comment from me, but does anyone not think that Matt Derbyshire should be considered, if the others aren't doing the business. He has pace and an eye for goal. Obviously, he's untested at the highest level and there's doubts about his physical strength (although to score those goals in the hoof it long leagues is no easy feat). It appears that Hughes would rather keep Derbyshire at the club than let him go out on loan - so perhaps he's biding his time to blood him.

Apart from the odd obscure England U17/19, game I haven't seen Garner play. His record for the U18s was darn good and needless to say with his name, people here were very excited. However, you just need to look at his reserve goal record and compare it with the progress that guys like Matt Derbyshire and Raff De Vita (although I believe he's been dogged by injuries this year) have made to see that Garner isn't quite the white hope some expected. There's still time to re-find his form, of course. ANd he recently scored a hat-trick for the reserves which was unheard of last season. He's a Dad isn't he - that could explain his dip in form (although I have to admit, I don't know much about this parenting lark, but i've heard it can wear u out... )

I don't know what promising news you've been reading - but it must be a little out of date. Garner was all the rage when he was scoring for fun for the U18s but since stepping up to the reserves he hasn't done much whatsoever. (A bit like Gally and his less than successful step up to the first team). Guys like Treacy (to an extent), Taylor, Derbyshire, Nolan, Kane are people who have established themselves as good reserve team players. Garner hasn't got that far yet although, this season the goals have started to come - but he needs to maintain it for the season if he wants to even start thinking about becoming a real Rovers player. I just fear that he's been consumed by the age-old problem of too much hype too early.

Although Gally did pretty well for Stoke - well enough for most of the fans to want him back - they don't have Boskamp as manager anymore. Who knows if that kick-and-rush aesthete, Tony Pulis, would find space for Gally in the team.

Apart from Peter on the bench, we severely lack pace on the bench. With the opposition threatening, a fast striker would be perfect to throw on and pen the opp full backs back. Jeffers coming on. Hardly the pace I'm clamouring for but u never know.

Did this guy play against Rovers in the pre-season friendly/demolition job?

Reviving this old thread to report that Keith Treacy is set to sign for Stockport on loan (if he hasn't already done so) within the next 24 hrs. He joins Tony Kane. Currently out on loan from Rovers: Keith Barker - Rochdale Andy Taylor - Crewe Keith Treacy and Tony Kane - Stockport

As Savage gets older (he's getting on already) I suspect he'll adjust his game and become more of a holding player as a concession to his age. If that is the case, Sav could be the replacement for Tugay - although a very different type.

He also missed one for Cercle Brugge reserves in his goal-less half-season with them. So we know who'll be stepping up to the spot in the next international tournament for England then....

Have fun everyone going to the Netherlands!