You know what I meant. Let's just say, when Rooney is Owen's age, he will not have settled down to be a prosaic, service-dependant poacher but will undoubtedly still be an exciting, inspirational but temperamental forward. It is a big blow, however, that Owen is out of the World Cup because he has the mental strength and self-confidence to keep going for crosses and passes even when he is out of form. A lesser player, when out of form and under the cosh from criticism, would wilt.

I was lambasted on this board for expressing similar sentiments. People say he's world class, I say he is in the same bracket as Pauleta of Portugal, Klose of Germany, Pandiani (when he was at Deportivo). I.e he is a fantastic finisher and has great movement in the box. But outside the box he offers nothing or very little. Henrik Larsson (as displayed in the Champs League final) is capable of subtle passes to create goals as well as being a regular scorer but Owen can't do that. He's moulded himself as a poacher or more condescendingly, a goal-hanger. That doesn't mean he isn't a very effective player and his injury is a major loss for England. But it does mean that it is not a big a loss as losing say Rooney. WHen Owen burst onto the scene he had the potential to be up there with Rooney. He could devastate in the box (Romania!) and he could devastate starting from outside the box (Argentina). That is the mark of a great striker. However, a combination of factors, including hamstring injuries, crap tactics employed by Houllier in which Owen's sole role was to race onto through passes, and a lack of motivation to improve means that he will never be a great player - although he is well on the way to breaking the all-time England goal record.

Crouch has difficult time of it because the England defenders and midfielders assume that he will be able to control 50 foot high lofted passes. He's not world class but is Miroslav Klose? Eriksson will probably play 4-1-4-1 against Ecuador which concerns me a bit because that is not a formation most of the players are accustomed to. It looks like I may have to accept I was wrong in supporting the inclusion of Walcott (although 5 strikers would've made sense if he was desperate to take Walcott). However, in my defence, I did assume that Sven had done enough research into the guy to have the confidence to play him as a sub.

Surely Hargreaves must start the next game. We need that genuine anchor player to receive the ball off the back four and play simple.

I really am glad that Reid's stayed (especially as we weren't going to get a fair price due to contract expiring) but this talk of Spurs was stupid. Reid would've sunk into obscurity had he moved for the money and the bright lights of London.

Squad player at Spurs or regular at Rovers with a fat new salary? Surprised it took Reidy that long to work it out.

I partly agree, in that S&M were woeful. However, for the second goal, did they do anything seriously wrong? Perhaps early on in the move they could have pressed harder to break up the build-up but you could hardly say that they didn't pull numbers back. In the heat their 'plan' was evidently to let the Argies have the ball and sit back and defend deep. At the sharp end of the move they did their best in closing down Saviola, but his technique enabled him control the ball and make the pass to Cambiasso and Crespo's backheel was extremely difficult to defend against and the keeper couldn't do much with the finish. If I was an Argentinian fan, i would be a little worried that they have peaked too early. At least as an England supporter, that's something that isn't a problem. Whilst many have hyped up Riquelme as the epitome of a playmaker, I believe a good defensive team could shut him out of the game with close marking. He has no pace and doesn't track back. The Serbs gave him as much time and space on the ball as he wanted.

I really think so. The best goals are always played on loop almost everywhere on the run up to World Cups and I have never seen a goal like that one. The edited highlight of the goal doesn't show all the assured passing (24 altogether) which was everything but ponderous.

Leonardo speaks the most sense, and he's got the worst command of English out of the lot!

yeah, the Argies second is surely the best World Cup goal ever (even tho Carlos Alberto's goal was in the finals against Italy). The initial passing was assured and nonchalant, Saviola's one-two was exceptional, especially when he received a difficult ball back but killed it with a deft touch and sprayed it to Cambiasso, who got it to Crespo and a delightful back-heel returns the ball to Cambiasso and he finishes with style. How many long balls did the Argentinian defenders play?

Downing excelled in certain Boro UEFA cup games, including their win over Roma. I believe several Roma players came out after the game to eulogise about the guy, who they'd never heard of before.

The debate about Sven being a good England manager or a bad England manager is, imo, a bit like the argument of whether Winston Churchill is one of the greatest Britons ever. It seems to leave very little room for non-partisans. I side with Paul, in believing that Sven is not a good England manager. For so long he has pandered to the egos of his big players. It's only in this tournament (and the squad selection) he actually had the balls to back his own judgment. I very much doubt that Michael Owen would have been subbed in a prior tournament. It seems that with him leaving after this tournament (and escaping the media and public criticism) he has started to act more like a manager. I am not one who objects to a foreign manager being at the helm - but one who is not aware of England having any rivalry with Australia - I do. One who gives the national captaincy to Emile Heskey and Phil Neville (albeit for only part of a game) I do. One who allows the players to dictate the tactics in the lead up to a tournament (Euro 2004) I do. One who brings on Owen Hargreaves in crucial games, yet never gives him a real chance to stake a claim in his favoured position in friendlies, I do wholly object to. And that list of peccadillos excludes his off-pitch blunders. However, as hinted above, Sven seems to have got his finger out (at the very end of his regime) and the subs against Trinidad were good and positive. That doesn't explain, imo, why he is playing Joe Cole on the left wing (mark my words, he will not impress against decent teams in an unfamiliar positioN) or why he hasn't sorted out the Lamps-Gerrard partnership or why he didn't take 5 strikers. And as for Steve McClaren - a joke appointment by the English FA. He will be cheaper and possibly a mild upgrade on Sven but the man will be out of his depth in the tournaments.

Emile Heskey: 43 caps, 5 goals. ?

Abbey, so is Crouch worse than Heskey?

Reyes isn't in the starting line-up of Spain because they are playing a diamond formation, with the full-backs providing the width. Add that to the fact that he lost his form (and starting place) at Arsenal.

Man of the Match in the first game? Not much to boast about. Lampard is a fantastic player but where does he play for Chelsea? He has a attacking role with TWO players behind him, doing the donkey work. His partnership with Gerrard doesn't work because they're too similar. It's time for Sven to stop giving those two a chance to sort it out themselves and sort it for them. THat means dropping Lampard (because he is not as a good as Gerrard) and playing someone to play the holding role - probably Carrick. I'd drop Joe Cole as well because imo, for his tricks and flicks, when we have Beckham on one flank, we need some genuine width on the other.

5 live is quality. Terry Butcher and Graham Taylor (believe it or not) make excellent pundits being not blinded by favouritism for England and their 'star' players.

AH! That's where we're going wrong!

Lamps might prove me wrong but as many have been saying for aeons, he and Gerrard are not a partnership worth talking about. England need to play quick passing football. Which they seem incapable of. Please tell me what crap Hansen and Shearer talk at half-time ( I don't have access to a tv at the mo). Yesterday they were dismissing the threat of Germany as nothing to worry about in the least for the mighty England. ROONEY, ROONEY, ROONEY!

It's all very well England having supposed world class players who dominate the short-lists for awards but if they can't play as a team, there's no point hyping them up. I've named them axis of confusion and I still cannot believe how two multi-talented players in Lampard and Gerrard can't get a partnership going. On current form, I'd go for a Ballack-Frings midfield duo over the perpetually mis-firing England guys. And Eddie, as you probably expected, I have to disagree with your point about Owen being in the top ten in the world. A world class striker is able to hold the ball up and assist his team outside of the box. Owen just isn't good at that and if the team are struggling, he is a burden. Imo he ranks alongside players like Pauleta. Fantastic goal-getters but not up there with guys like Rooney, Henry and Shevchenko. If England get Rooney back and in-form, then we become a team to fear.

Well done Cocker but forget about the overall prize, that's mine. Actually, after no goals from Klose (v Polski) and a Ballack yellow card, I'll forget about that idea as well,

This isn't a moan about the coverage (you'll be happy to know) but don't you think that Hansen and Co are over-hyping England tremendously? They were dreadful against Paraguay (and I don't believe this nonsense about the first half) and suddenly our esteemed pundits think that Germany are not much to worry about. Germany are a lot to worry about. Their defence looked much more solid versus Poland. Ballack has added class to the central midfield. Odonkor will no doubt be in contention to start and provide pace on the flank. Lahm and Schweinstiger (sp?) look useful on the left and up front - Klose and Podolski aren't anything special but they can finish. Add the home support and any team that faces Germany in the next round will have it tough regardless of what Shearer and Hansen say. (BTW I have to say, Arno Friedrich, the German right back is so crap on the ball. He makes Gary Neville look like Cafu).

Yeah, it's pretty good. (Except when there are annoying shadows on the pitch).

I just wonder, wouldn't it be an idea to play Eddie Lewis further forward. He has a bit of skill and can put in good crosses. However, I'm not sure who you've got to play left back in his stead. I've got a silly question for US Rovers out there (which is a little O/T). Has the US women's team ever been better than the mens team. Stupid, I know, but I just want to make sure from people in the know to resolve a minor dispute I am having with a feminist (who knows nothing about football but has got this idea into her head from somewhere).

I like the sound of that.