Perhaps I posted this in the wrong thread. Why TM can sod off

Sounds like we got a battering with the result flattering us and protecting TM. Not good. Nor is bringing on Evans (a terrible move) and persisting with Bennett and Armstrong. The latter in particular has 1 in 10 good games but is immune to dropping. As for TMs comments - honest man he is not. "Leeds didn't have many shots" is a steaming pile.of BS that statisrically is proved to be a lie. Firstly 15 shots is a fair amount in a game and secondly it is almost 4 times, yes 4 times, more than we had. Now I am resigned to having poor managers whilst the clowns are.in charge but I do want an honest one. And BS Tony telling blatant lies to Pune is not it. It's Coyle and Bowyer (towards the end) esque and adds another layer of immorality, corruption and shame to a great club that has had far too much of that dumped on it since the shysters rocked up. Do one Tony, you're a crap manager and showing yourself to be a poor human being too.

If there is a positive from today, and a scant consolation it is, I think there are clearly 3 worse sides than us. Barnsley lost the biggest 6 pointer of the season so far and are looking doomed. Equally Luton and Wigan also took heavy losses and are looking poor teams. Those are the 3, with Boro as the safety net, who look worse than us and may save us from relegation. So far the last few weeks have panned out mainly as expected: Hudds and Stoke looking decent with a competent man in charge, albeit early.days for Stoke. Luton and Wigan are looking weak along with Barnsley and have done nothing to deter this initial assessment. The only team bucking expectations are Reading who keep winning despite a novice manager and weak squad. If they keep this up much longer they could be out of the woods regardless of a later stall. So a crap performance and result for us but a sliver of solace that is that some other teams look in real trouble too.

Interesting to see 2 huge relegation 6 pointers today: Reading Vs Luton and Stoke Vs Barnsley. The looser of the latter in particular will be in a very bad way. Millwall, Wigan and Boro don't have easy games, albeit ones they could get something from, so today could be a good day for Rovers to put a bit of distance between us and the relegation zone.

Bar clubs in the North East I cannot think of a place that is as large and only has one team. Also Sunderland and Boro are more economically depressed than Leeds too (don't think Newcastle is.) Not that it's all affluent by any stretch but I digress. Add in that obligingly Leeds also has 2 other decent size towns to call on for football fans which have no club - Harrogate and Wakefield - alongside a ton of other little local towns from Otley to Castleford and you really have a huge market of potential local fans without any competition. Contrast that with Lancashire clubs and it's a very different story. Then on top of all that Leeds are always on Sky. I've talked about (or ranted) about how smaller clubs are struggling to attract fans because it's easier for kids to see the big 6 on TV. Leeds don't have that problem as they are on Sky so often it is untrue. Any kid, Fairweather fan could follow them on TV with relative ease - they get an exposure most clubs, including half the premiership could only dream of. Factor all that in and the 30k isn't that impressive whatsoever. Even Waggot could fill the ground in those sort of conditions. It's the easiest non glory hunting situation to sell in UK football and yet they're lauded as some kind of superfans. And don't get me started on the team. Bottlers the lot of them. More in hope (as I live in Leeds) then expectation a surprise and plucky point from Rovers as they snatch a draw from either the jaws of victory or defeat (am not sure which.) A score draw for teh pools imo. The tombola plays a key roll in the afternoon as we continue our quest for mediocracy. (But not consistency, never that.) Rovers 1- Leeds 1

Will there be walk on tickets for away fans? If i rock up on the day, would I be able to get a few tickets?

Yes, this is what gets me. Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Mulgrew Gally and Armstrong to name a few all have to go on monumentally bad runs of exceptional length before they are dropped - and some of them aren't even then. Others, like Johnston have been dropped, presumably for under performing and yet there's no peep of criticism saying why they were dropped (this goes also for Evans and Smallwood when eventually dropped.) It's pathetic behaviour. I coul be wrong but I am pretty sure that virtually all the players TM has singled out for criticism are under 24. Speaks volumes that this is the case.

Smart move for Stoke as this guy has done well in a couple of previous jobs. No experience of Championship (I think) which makes it a bit of a gamble, but his record is still pretty impressive. Not great news for Rovers though as it looks to strengthen a relegation rival.

I'd say 2 and 3 albeit number 2 is probably more likely to hide previous corruption of the early years rather than us currently being a locus of dodgy dealings. Actually there are times when i wonder on this so perhaps a better answer imo is 2 mostly to cover up from early years ownership with the occasional flutter into dodginess. As for 3 - culturally the shame/honour thing is huge. Having berriended a good number of international students over the years the shame/honour culture is something we just huge and a totally different mindset to a western one and a primary motivator. Put 2 and 3 together and that's huge as they feed off each other, probably leaving us in this way for a very long time.

Even an optimistic best case scenario is pretty horrible replacement wise. Downing, Johnson, Mulgrew, Graham plus the loans all won't be here next season. Now for some that's not a great loss but as you say, given TMs record in the transfer market it's rather risky. And as we found with Mulgrew this season letting someone go without a replacement is worse than even a limited player. Of the big signings made not masses have worked out - Dack aside and Downing if you count him as one of our big signings, but Bereton, Gallagher and Whittingham all show that TM isn't great at getting in top quality. Wouldn't like him to have to find the next Dack or Travis say. Also given we replaced Raya with Walton you do wonder as to how well TM can judge players in general. And that's assuming he gets the right players through the door he will play them in their proper positions. We wasted Reid, had strikers shunted to the wing, am not sure how anyone would really feel about our chances of development and progress if we evaluate the current transfer record.

This sums up my thoughts although eventually I think we'll succumb and get relegated. Maybe not this year (although who knows?) but if we are hovering around lower mid table for the duration under TM sooner or later when we do a bit worse than our average (which is pretty unimpressive and explained by Rev's post) or get some bad luck then we'll go down.

Surprisingly so. Let's see how long it lasts, but he has already done better than I expected he would. That said, perhaps Huddersfield aren't as broken as suspected ? Seem to be pulling away nicely.

Not trying to be a killjoy but I think we are still in a relegation battle and one win doesn't change that. That said, in our relegation fight today was a very positive day for us, with some encouraging signs. The big positives are Boro losing again, meaning that there's now a 6 point gap between us and the relegation zone. A bit of room to breath is much appreciated. Perhaps we could do with Boro picking up slightly so they don't pot Woodgate too soon, but overall a 6 point gap is preferable. Equally, Luton and Wigan both lost again, and I think both, especially the former could be in real trouble. Home losses, even to good teams, aren't a good sign and I think both will be struggling, especially Luton as the promotion bounce looks to have worn off quickly. On the flip side, Huddersfield seem to be confirming they're actually an ok team with someone competent at the helm. Another win strongly suggests they'll only be looking upwards. Reading also won again, which surprises me, as they're one of the teams I think are perhaps more likely to go down. Will see how long the new manager bounce lasts, but right now it seems pretty strong. Good win over relegation rivals Millwall too. So overall a positive week for Rovers both in terms of the gap between us and the bottom 3 and other teams not looking mega secure either. A long way to go but a good week for us.

A very good win given the opposition are a good team. I still don't rate TM, but wins like this mean that I can sleep easier at night thinking that there's the potential to avoid relegation as long as we keep picking up the odd win. Great to see another of our youngsters get the goal too. Apparently Walton at fault for the goal - the man is a liability and alongside other core issues has to be one of the first addressed in January. We're getting back to Steele levels of incompetence. Or do we have to play him as part of the loan agreement? All in all a pleasing 3 points which shows that whilst we are down we are not out (metaphorically speaking - obviously we aren't relegated!)

Factor in that we haven't really been that unlucky in that time, or we deserve what we have got, what happen if/when we do get a bit of bad luck, say a couple of unfortunate injuries or a result or two worse than what we deserve? There's no margin for error whatsoever. Oh and btw I don't count our defensive injuries as bad luck but bleeding obvious given no depth and injury prone defenders. Were Dack or Travis to get injured however it doesn't bare thinking about.

So many issues with this. As others have said our failure is because we are doing badly not because of raised expectations. It's not ambitious to expect strikers to score a few goals and not to throw away 2 goal leads. For me when the message is for Pune not fans then it's time to go. No need to mention his family and the whole raised expectations makes things look worse than they are is so disingenuous that it is clearly also aimed at Pune. Also Tony you don't need to worry about bouncing round mid table as we are looking like relegation candidates and a bottom 6 team under your guidance.

Really enjoying these columns, well written and a fun read. Not sure for me this run feels different from last season's mega bad run other than the fact that there's more frustration because of the same blasted mistakes as last season, which is astounding. Both looked like we couldn't buy a win, looked relegation candidates and had deep lying issues that a win or two would only paper over. Worrying times.

Agree. Stoke like Sunderland before them seem to be less than the sum of their parts and massively underperforming. That said given he got Norwich promoted and is doing an excellent job down the road with limited resources it was inevitable someone would become interested in him. Also surprised they potted Jones now after recent results bar Saturday were ok. Figured if he wasn't sacked 3 or 4 games ago, that they would give him a bit longer given most of the last few games have gone ok. Perhaps it was because they have someone lined up/don't want to miss out on a target?

The fear of us getting a worse replacement must be weighing heavy on many fans too. Another legacy of Kean and Coyle is all other managers look mega stars in comparison. Thus both expectations of what a manager could do and hope any new man would be better are at rock bottom. For me, I think we're picking up downwards momentum and TM, who was never that good, has completely lost it, and therefore think the risks are minimal in a replacement. I also don't think a club can prosper when the manager choses his own boss and that needs sorting too. (Ideally Venkys bog off too but thinking realistically the first 2 things can and need to happen.) However with Coyle the last but one appointment I can see why fans are wary. For me the rewards outweigh the risks of continuing our free fall under TM but even so, even the most ardent of Tony Out stance fans will be more than a little nervous as to who comes into the hotseat. Not that it matters - he is as safe as houses with this lot in charge.

And who they replace him with too! Think Reading must be candidates for relegation appointing the rookie Bowen. No experience of being a number 1, and having made the change recently then he's likely to be in post for a while. Must make Reading one of the favourites for relegation imo. Who you appoint is just as important as getting rid of the last incumbant.

Utterly appalling. Not sure how they can justify this whatsoever.

Reflecting on it my biggest gripe was the lack of subs. Why? We were clearly struggling and TM has cost us points with needless subs on countless occasions (Holtby Vs Hudds being the most recent) yet when a change is actually - and clearly - needed he doesn't make one. Why? It seems out of character and against common sense, and without going too conspiracy theorist I am curious why in light of these facts we don't see any substitutions.

No and that is a hope. It got us our of jail last time and it might do this time too. Problem is that TM hasn't done well the last 12 months an Gibson generally knows what he is doing. That said it is far from impossible and we can hope for it as it doubly benefits us, weakening a rival and allowing us to get a new broom in.

Right now we are second.. ... In the likely relegation candidates mini-table. Only Millwall are above us. I rate their manager so think they may be safe because of that, but their thin squad and budget could mean they are embroiled. Rookie managers at Reading and Boro is a great thing for us. However should Boro get shut of Woodgate I fear a decent manager would get them climbing out. Reading having made one change already, could be looking very likely for the drop. Huddersfield with a competent manager now at the helm and a decent squad probably should continue to climb and get out of trouble. Wigan and Luton I think could go either way. Teams capable of good performances or getting battered depending on the day. Neither team has huge resources so definitely both will be in the relegation mix. Stoke and Barnsley I feel could be in real trouble, especially Barnsley with their low budget too. Stoke's mini revival stalled today but they may be one of those clubs which are all internally wrong. Their manager is solid but it doesn't seem to be working out there. Both could we be in the mix, although an astute change by Stoke could make a difference. So Hudds and Millwall to sneak out - leaving it 3 from 8. Probably 3 from 7 when Boro finally pot Woodgate. Just under 50% chance from those very simplistic odds of how many teams there are who will be struggling. It's going to be tight.

My big issue is that there isn't progress. Take today's team. Walton- deciding we weren't happy with an inconsistent young keeper, evidently from part way through last season, and the best we can come up with is a worse one, who isn't even ours? Centre back - 5 windows later the best we have is a converted left back who has been average at best, and wasn't even played there until injuries struck, and a kid who hasn't massively played there. Ok injuries are an issue but we have had 2 seasons of that and not compensated accordingly - it's hardly a surprise. Our defensive midfielders were the two we settled on in league 1. 3 windows later they are as good as we have? (Actually they aren't, Travis is streets ahead but doesn't play. Madness.) No right midfielder, just converted strikers. 3 or 4 windows to get that sorted and we haven't. (Again perhaps we have in Rothwell but he doesn't often play.)! An heir to Danny Graham. Ok good game for Gally today but the beat we can do for competition in 5 windows is a striker who has one league goal and one good game at striker since joining. That's the best we've found after a lengthy search and £12 mill of investment? I don't buy the slow progress but even if I did, it isn't happening. We're no further forward than we were before. And results bare this out. Since we got promoted we have utterly stalled and 2019 has just been one mistake after another. Get rid.