I agree on the fitness thing. Take for example Dack and Evans, who are poles apart on the ability spectrum but neither are great physically. Dack often can look done in for with 15-20 mins to go, whilst Evans is off injured more often than not. Yet both play regularly (justifiably in Dack's case) and aren't nursed at all. Similarly Lenihen seems to be another in that bracket who isn't cautiously managed, despite being very injury prone. Others, less favoured players, seem to just have to sneeze in the wrong place or get a dead leg, and they're out for a month. It is very odd.

Why? Just why? This seems a dangerous obsession. Why weaken players by taking them out of their best position? Thinking on it,, I wonder if there is an element of I need to find a centre mid who is decent as I've dropped another clanger with Johnson. A bit like with covering up the Gally situation by shifting him wide right.

Put him in a back 3 for added protection or move him into defensive midfield with Travis - either way we'd still get his set piece benefits and goals. Yes he was finished in a 4-4-2 but we need his goals and continue to create hardly any chances or shots whatsoever.

"A bit disappointed about their goal, I gave the ball away, but other than that, I was pretty pleased." From Mr Williams himself. "Other than giving a goal away" - outside of Ewood that is considered a failure and a bad performance. And it sums up our defending in general and why at best he and the rest of the defence peak at mediocre. incidentally the article complaining of injuries to Bell and Hart - they're both substandard anyway and no big loss.

Problem is WWE barring the NXT brand has zero slow build. Also once they got him to face Seth Rollins for the title at hell in a cell there was no winner. Either he wins the title, the character is killed before he starts or they do a screwy finish. They (WWE) figured the last option was best, realised it was alienating fans beyond the usual levels (it was spectacularly bad booking) and backtracked at crown jewel. In the process they made Seth and his finisher look weak and competing for a title shot unnecessary, so good job WWE... A Wrestlemania win after a dominant Royal Rumble victory would have been so much better. Much prefer NXT which to me is the best of all WWE attempts as it has quality wrestling, solid storylines over a decent time frame and good character development. Whilst I've initially struggled with as breaks in matches I am enjoying seeing more of the best brand. That said I worry for Survivor Series as 1) will NXT quality be diluted / poisoned by Raw and Smallckdown booking and storylines and 2) even if not then I think a lot of tripple threat marches will get wearing.

Exceptional post. I notice that other North West clubs haven't read the memo of natural level. Burnley and Preston, loath as I am to say it, both punching well above any "natural level" that may be bestowed on them.

I think you are correct that we will get drubbed in most of those games. Right now with how the team is playing you don't fancy us against many teams. I also think we aren't as bad as TM makes us and are capable of pulling off the odd win when we shouldn't and expect one of these to be sandwiched somewhere in this run of fixtures. This along with perhaps a draw in there too will be more than enough to keep TM as safe as houses and no questions to be asked. All that said whether I prove to be correct or you do, 1 point or 4 points is utterly appalling return from these games and shows we are in trouble. A win at Barnsley is a must to help us keep some.distance from the bottom 3.

Great post and sums up why TM is not a man of integrity. Blaming Nayambe (far from the most culpable of our team) for all our failings, lying about how the Leeds game went, being happy with the non-target of competing - where is the integrity of any of that. On a separate note I think the theories that we can't spend money on defenders must be true given a) the amount we have spent on this under Vs and b) the contrast between TMs comments and actions.

I can. In fact (stupid and suicidal as it is) it's one of their more rational decisions in the grand scheme of their decision making...

Thing is a good manager would turn that medicore into good, something better than the sum of its parts. I dunno maybe Mulgrew and Travis as the 2 defensive miss in a 4-2-3-1 to protect Mulgrew from his lack of pace and still give us his set piece benefits. Perhaps a trio of Rothwell, Dack and Holtby means we can have a non scoring lump up front to play off as the 3 behind rack up a set of goals. Perhaps a good manager brings in a canny centre half and all our young defenders fulfil their potential. Maybe he gets a wing back system making Bell and Bennett look halfway decent. Tbh I'm not sure what it looks like but a competent manager would find a way of getting the team better than the sum of its parts.

A good group and a placid group are not the same thing whatsoev the regardless of what TM thinks.

How are we getting such bad luck with injuries? Cunningham granted but even then losing one key player is probably par for the course. Outside of that there's not really been any major injuries and certainly not to our key players. Perhaps Lenihen but 3 seasons of long term injuries may suggest it's not a surprise. And when have we been unlucky? Take yesterday for example. They had 4 times the number of shots we did, and double the possession. Overly simplistic admittedly but that suggests we were well beaten. And that isn't a first. How are we unlucky when we have so few shots each game? Not at you Gaviar just pointing out how daft these views are...

In fairness to Smallwood he was a means to an end - promotion - that he did well. Agree he should have gone in the summer though. Or Evans who I really don't rate. If Johnson is a busted flush then TM is really floundering in the transfer market. Not sure how many of this season's signings have improved us. Downing? Cunningham briefly and unfortunate he got an injury. The City lad blows hot and cold. That's a horrendous success record when only 1 definitely improves the team and a couple kind of do. This suggests January won't be any kind of salvation for us as even of we do bring in players, most of them are duds.

Constructive comments. On what grounds are you "more than happy." That phrase implies you are very pleased with how TM is doing and he is exceeding expectations. What's your justification for such a glowing recommendation?

Agree that 3 teams isn't that many as we would like by a long stretch. However I would say it looks very clear that those 3 teams are worse than us by a significant margin which is a plus. What happens next season without that (appreciate you are saying it's not enough this season) if any of the promoted teams are decent is very worrying. Hopefully TM will be gone by then but who knows with this lot in charge. My thoughts are there are clearly 3 teams worse than us right now who look no closer to getting it together than we do. Not masses of solace but it's much better than every club looking a more competent outfit than us. Should have said also Millwall winning means they're on a mini revival at the moment with 2 wins in the last 3. So yeah can see why you would be worried. Am not Uber confident myself but in a weakend of another crap performance I am encouraged by how very weak 3 other teams are looking.

Spot on. Money isn't the only indicator of interest and ambition. Having no proper corporate/executive structure, allowing managers to constantly underachieve and put in woeful performances, presiding over 2 relegations all suggest they don't give a stuff. Don't think other than last season they have been great with the money either.

Perhaps I posted this in the wrong thread. Why TM can sod off

Sounds like we got a battering with the result flattering us and protecting TM. Not good. Nor is bringing on Evans (a terrible move) and persisting with Bennett and Armstrong. The latter in particular has 1 in 10 good games but is immune to dropping. As for TMs comments - honest man he is not. "Leeds didn't have many shots" is a steaming pile.of BS that statisrically is proved to be a lie. Firstly 15 shots is a fair amount in a game and secondly it is almost 4 times, yes 4 times, more than we had. Now I am resigned to having poor managers whilst the clowns are.in charge but I do want an honest one. And BS Tony telling blatant lies to Pune is not it. It's Coyle and Bowyer (towards the end) esque and adds another layer of immorality, corruption and shame to a great club that has had far too much of that dumped on it since the shysters rocked up. Do one Tony, you're a crap manager and showing yourself to be a poor human being too.

If there is a positive from today, and a scant consolation it is, I think there are clearly 3 worse sides than us. Barnsley lost the biggest 6 pointer of the season so far and are looking doomed. Equally Luton and Wigan also took heavy losses and are looking poor teams. Those are the 3, with Boro as the safety net, who look worse than us and may save us from relegation. So far the last few weeks have panned out mainly as expected: Hudds and Stoke looking decent with a competent man in charge, albeit early.days for Stoke. Luton and Wigan are looking weak along with Barnsley and have done nothing to deter this initial assessment. The only team bucking expectations are Reading who keep winning despite a novice manager and weak squad. If they keep this up much longer they could be out of the woods regardless of a later stall. So a crap performance and result for us but a sliver of solace that is that some other teams look in real trouble too.

Interesting to see 2 huge relegation 6 pointers today: Reading Vs Luton and Stoke Vs Barnsley. The looser of the latter in particular will be in a very bad way. Millwall, Wigan and Boro don't have easy games, albeit ones they could get something from, so today could be a good day for Rovers to put a bit of distance between us and the relegation zone.

Bar clubs in the North East I cannot think of a place that is as large and only has one team. Also Sunderland and Boro are more economically depressed than Leeds too (don't think Newcastle is.) Not that it's all affluent by any stretch but I digress. Add in that obligingly Leeds also has 2 other decent size towns to call on for football fans which have no club - Harrogate and Wakefield - alongside a ton of other little local towns from Otley to Castleford and you really have a huge market of potential local fans without any competition. Contrast that with Lancashire clubs and it's a very different story. Then on top of all that Leeds are always on Sky. I've talked about (or ranted) about how smaller clubs are struggling to attract fans because it's easier for kids to see the big 6 on TV. Leeds don't have that problem as they are on Sky so often it is untrue. Any kid, Fairweather fan could follow them on TV with relative ease - they get an exposure most clubs, including half the premiership could only dream of. Factor all that in and the 30k isn't that impressive whatsoever. Even Waggot could fill the ground in those sort of conditions. It's the easiest non glory hunting situation to sell in UK football and yet they're lauded as some kind of superfans. And don't get me started on the team. Bottlers the lot of them. More in hope (as I live in Leeds) then expectation a surprise and plucky point from Rovers as they snatch a draw from either the jaws of victory or defeat (am not sure which.) A score draw for teh pools imo. The tombola plays a key roll in the afternoon as we continue our quest for mediocracy. (But not consistency, never that.) Rovers 1- Leeds 1

Will there be walk on tickets for away fans? If i rock up on the day, would I be able to get a few tickets?

Yes, this is what gets me. Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Mulgrew Gally and Armstrong to name a few all have to go on monumentally bad runs of exceptional length before they are dropped - and some of them aren't even then. Others, like Johnston have been dropped, presumably for under performing and yet there's no peep of criticism saying why they were dropped (this goes also for Evans and Smallwood when eventually dropped.) It's pathetic behaviour. I coul be wrong but I am pretty sure that virtually all the players TM has singled out for criticism are under 24. Speaks volumes that this is the case.

Smart move for Stoke as this guy has done well in a couple of previous jobs. No experience of Championship (I think) which makes it a bit of a gamble, but his record is still pretty impressive. Not great news for Rovers though as it looks to strengthen a relegation rival.

I'd say 2 and 3 albeit number 2 is probably more likely to hide previous corruption of the early years rather than us currently being a locus of dodgy dealings. Actually there are times when i wonder on this so perhaps a better answer imo is 2 mostly to cover up from early years ownership with the occasional flutter into dodginess. As for 3 - culturally the shame/honour thing is huge. Having berriended a good number of international students over the years the shame/honour culture is something we just huge and a totally different mindset to a western one and a primary motivator. Put 2 and 3 together and that's huge as they feed off each other, probably leaving us in this way for a very long time.