A few points o address. Flopsy - have a go at Filth by IW. Very funny but disturbing yarn of horribly corrupt Edinburgh CID inspector. Good gags, violence, racial bigotry (would appeal to some), sexism by the spadeful, sex, murder, freemasons, beastiality, drunkenness, tapeworms, crapulence and Frank Sidebottom. Yes, a novel which features Timperley's finest. I kid you not. The tapeworm is quite annoying though. LOTR - I'd advise skipping the songs too. They'll drive you mad and they add nothing, but I'd say stick with Tom Bombadil. He adds nothing to the overall plot but I can't help feeling there's a greater Tolkien subtlety at work there and there is some greater significance to TB than we realise. Hmm. However, I would say that Flopsy would appear to have skipped more than the songs if he thinks Frodo et al went to "Rivendale". Colin - This thing of darkness: I think you will find, young man, that I did mention the 750 pages in my earlier recommendation. Why worry? Every page is a winner. Watch out for 294 and 295 though. Heartbreaking. 92er - Labyrinth is probably the worst book I have ever made a concerted effort to read. I've abandoned a rare few after a couple of chapters but I gave Mosse's book 300 pages to snare my interest. In short, badly written, no surprises, no sense of menace, no believeable characters, pathetically poor schoolgirl French and an increasingly tedious plot. Absolutely and irredeemably awful and very, very, very boring to boot. Using it for bog paper is too good for it.

Let's get it straight, Trainspotting is a great book. It just requires more effort than the sort of "Achtung! Gott in Himmel! For you Tommy ze vor is ofer!" prose than Flopper is used to. Once you get your head round the dialect it's very easy and it flows. Welsh creates fantastically elaborate plots with trapdoor endings and surprising twists, but the real fun is with the very real warts-and-not much-else characters. Welsh is genuinely funny, has a real talent for pathos and domestic horror and although you'll find yourself warming to his vile anti-heroes he throw something else into the mix to make you think again and leave you feeling disgusted with them. Again. Personally, I liked Filth more but Trainspotting is probably a little more accessible simply because the film (which has a very different plot and ending) is so well known. Welsh is rubbish at punctuation and anyone who has read Roddy Doyle's books will spot the same can't-be-arsed-to-use-punctuation attitude. I admit that grates a bit, but it's a small concession to make for a cracking read. As for the dialogue, decide for yourself. This is opening to Trainspotting. The sweat wis lashing oaf Sick Boy; he wis trembling. Ah wis jist sitting thair, focussing oan the telly, tryin no tae notice the c!*%. He wis bringing me doon. Ah tried tae keep ma attention oan the Jean-Claude Van Damme video. Grand stuff.

Right you, outside now!

Flopsy, just when I am beginning to think slightly better of you and your dubious reading choices you go and say something stupid like that. You really are a horrid little man. Irvine Welsh is a great writer. Just free yourself from your Commando comic "Take that, Fritz!" view of life and sit down with a nice story like Trainspotting or Filth. Many people are put off by the near constant use of Edinburgh dialect in Welsh's books but I think that's part of the charm. He's merely showing the English language for the varied and rich cornucopia that it is in the same way as say Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dickens or... er... Cartland. Absolutely splendid. Drummer Boy - I have also read the Maconie book and despite my best efforts to dislike it I found myself warming to it. Like you though, I smiled rather than laughed and felt he was fast running out of steam at the end.

I've never read David Copperfield and my only forays into Dickens have been A Christmas Carol and Great Expectations, so I can't make a ready comparison but I have to say Dickens I can take or leave. Where do I find the time to read? Easy, the TV has an off switch, the internet is mostly rubbish and at the age of 36 I realised that I was educated enough (in terms of what I need for my job) and said a resounding "Bo11ocks!" to the world of academia and no longer spend absurd amounts of my time reading dreary academic texts. End result is more time spent larking about in a variety of forms and reading. Mind you, vast amounts of water falling out of the sky during summertime has meant several weekends have been washed out and I've had unexpected amounts of time on my hands. The book you said you would read, although I think "vow" is going a bit too far, was IMPERIAL GOVERNOR by George Shipway, if I remember rightly. Bloody first class stuff and you should make time for it, but TTOD is better.

I wholeheartedly agree, Wiggy, and find the Aubrey/Maturin books to be most absorbing, although I find that the pace slackens a great deal whenerver they were on land. I will be on book 4 (Mauritius Command) when I resume them in a few weeks. I'm told by a neighbour who has read all of them several times that HMS Surprise is one of the weaker books and O'Brian gets back to his best in book 4. I sincerely hope so as I found book 3 to be far weaker than Master & Commander and the excellent Post Captain. This Thing Of Darkness has often been compared to the Aubrey/Maturin books but I think it's superficial. For a start it (TTOD) is a lot easier to read and the characters far more sympathetic, especially FitzRoy, but then that's maybe because they are based on real people going through real events. There's also a greater supporting cast in TTOD and I found myself wanting to know more about the other officers (many of whom went on to very great things) and the Fuegians, especially Jemmy. Alas, Wikipedia says little, but there is a biography of the late Mr Button out there so I'll have to track that down. Anyway, Harry Thompson mentions Patrick O'Brian in his acknowledgements, but I think that was more to do with how a tall ship actually works than much else. FitzRoy is very, very different to Jack Aubrey (and that's a good thing) and Darwin has none of the charm of Stephen Maturin. Anyway, you and Colin won't be disappointed as it really is something very special.

Back to the top yet again... I have just finished reading THIS THING OF DARKNESS by Harry Thompson (he that wrote Penguins stopped play and I am absolutely lost for words (almost). In my adult life I've read well over 200 novels - some good, some awful, a few great. This Thing Of Darkness is simply the best book I have ever read. For those that don't know, it tells the tale of Charles Darwin and the largely forgotten Robert FitzRoy. While Darwin is well-remembered and even features on bank notes, FitzRoy seems to have slipped from the world's memory. A crying shame for the man who should be as familar to us as Drake, Raleigh and perhaps even Nelson. I found the book hard to put down, never skimmed a single word of the 750 pages of this rip-roaring yarn very closely based on real and often extaordinary events, laughed out loud many times, learned so much about a period of world history I knew absolutely nothing of before and found myself with tears in my eyes three times. Oh alright, four times. Who would have thought that an old cynic like me would be so moved by a man who was born on the other side of the world and died over a hundred years before I was born who went by the name of Jemmy Button? Sadly, it was Harry Thompson's only novel, although he wrote a number of other non-fiction books, before his remarkable life was cut short at such a tragically young age and that saddens me as much as anything. But if you're only going to write one novel it might as well be a classic. If you only read one book ever again, let it be this.

I have to disagree there, Pip. I thought Fatherland started very well and I remember thinking what a great concept it was. For the early part I couldn't put it down. It was only when it reached the 3/4 point that it occurred to me Harris had run out of ideas and didn't know how to end it. I'd say it still worth a read though and far better than Pompeii. Archangel was altogether better as it was a subject matter I knew well - I did Stalin's use of terror in the 1930s for my dissertation. I found it thoroughly engrossing and having been to Moscow a lot of the locations and the grubbiness of the city were immediately recognisable. I thought it only fell apart in the final section which I won't reveal for fear of spoiling it for others who haven't read it yet. Pompeii, on the other hand, was tedious for the first half and just when I thought it was really going to get going it rather fizzled out. I visited Pompeii in 2001 and went to the top of Vesuvius and the book completely failed to convey any sense of scale that really rattled me when I was there. First of all the huge chunk of the mountain that was cleaved out by the eruption and secondly the distance that Pompeii is away from Vesuvius seemed to be too far for it to have been at risk. Harris wrote a mediocre book about a subject matter that had massive potetial. I'm told that there is to be a film made about his novel and I only hope it is significantly better than the other pitiful interpretations of his novels. Archangel with Daniel Craig was particularly bad. Also waiting on my shelf is This Thing Of Darkness by Harry Thompson who has been mentioned by a few others. The reviews are great but it might have to wait awhile as it looks a bit meaty. In any case, I'll have to finish HMS Surprise by Patrick O'Brain first (it's the third of the Aubrey/Maturin novels) and I have to say it's nowhere near as good as Master & Commander or Post Captain. Oh well, footy season over soon so plenty of time for a bit more reading.

Right boys and girls, it's almost holiday season so I figured I'd throw a few recommendations and warnings your way. Among the tomes I have been reading of late there have been... Pompeii by Robert Harris - 200 pages of information about how to design, build and repair a large aqueduct, followed by less than 200 pages about a somewhat weedy eruption, a bit of intrigue and loads of 2D characters. Easily Harris's worst book "by a country mile" as some members of this board are wont to say. Read it in a couple of days and still fell asleep several times. Absolutely bobbins. Three's Company by Alfred Duggan - for those in need of proper historical fiction that requires an IQ in triple figures, unlike that Pompeii nonsense, you could always give this a whirl. A bit slow to start but worth the perseverence for a tale of ineptitude and vanity and one man being promoted way beyond his ability. I think we all know someone like that. An engrossing tale that is often laugh out loud funny with totally believeable characters and a rather touching ending. Yes, it's set in ancient Rome but the themes it explores are easily transferable to the modern world. As I have stated before, Conscience Of The King by the same author is a gem as well. Rising Sun by Michael Crichton - written in the early 90s when much of the technology written about in the book would have seemed totally revolutionary to its readers then. The thriller element is well handled, the characters a bit thin but much of the revolutionary technology mentioned now seems somewhat dated. Digital photography, eh! What will they think of next? That said, it's worth a read and ideal flight fodder. The boy in the striped pyjamas by John Boyne - I read this at the insistence of a work colleague and found it to be a surprisingly good read. Yes, it's a kids' book but it explores adult themes and is a moving tale of absolute innocence in the presence of absolute evil. For those who don't know it's about the unlikely friendship between the very young son of a concentration camp commandant and a boy on the "wrong side" of the wire. A bittersweet tale with a vicious sting in the tale. Anyone who read The curious incident of the dog in the nighttime and enjoyed it will probably like this too. City of God by Paulo Lins - I had high hopes for this as I had seen the film and loved it. The book is somewhat different and is far from easy to get into as it just appears to be a collection of seemingly unconnected short stories. And when I say short, some are just a couple of paragraphs long. Anyway, it eventually settles down into some sort of order and it's a good read, but it takes a lot of effort and left me thinking it could have been so much better. Read it if you have a lot of time to spare. Knights of the cross by Tom Harper (I think) - hmm, an okay yarn about murder and conquest at the time of the first crusade. Lots of gory detail about battles, famine, cannibalism and skullduggery but a bit too predictable for my liking. The subplot of religious heresy should have yielded more surprises and revelations than it does and to me it seems like the author ran out of ideas. Fine for no-brainer beach reading, but don't expect to learn much about the period of history it is set in. The interpretation of murder by Jed Rubenfeld - book of the year at that ghastly awards ceremony hosted by Pinch & Judy and having heard glowing testimonies from colleagues at work I figured it might have something going for it. All I can say is don't believe the hype. Utter trash from front to back. It has the most ridiculously complicated murder plot with lashings of pseudo-intellectual psychological claptrap layered on. By the end the murder mystery, easily the best bit but even then not that good, descends into a sub-Scooby Doo plot of secret passages and false identities. Avoid like the plague. The amber spyglass by Philip Pullman - the final instalment of the His Dark Materials trilogy and for my money it was the weakest. Having said that, it's still a corking story and thoroughly recommended trio of engaging characters, high adventure (come on, the mortals are taking on God!) and coming of age. By the end I felt like there were a couple of things missing from my life which I think say a lot about how much I enjoyed these books - a subtle knife and my own daemon. Well, them and Salma Hayek, obviously.

Having taken what feels like a lifetime to read The Last Sodding Legion I can say without any doubt that it is a crock of sh1te from cover to cover. Great landscape descriptions, but that's it. The only redeeming thing is the (unintentionally) hilarious villain whose ineptitude in catching the main "characters" ( I use the term as loosely as possible) surpasses the lamentable efforts of Wily Coyote in apprehending Roadrunner. Absolutely bobbins.

I've always maintained that we should avoid the naffness of rubbish like The Final Countdown and other such tripe from similar Poodle Rock tarts. Quite simply, it hits the top of the scale on the shitnessometer. While I have suggested something classical in past such as the triumphal march from Aida (that all of you would know if you heard it) or the William Tell Overture (ditto), maybe we ought to go for something more contemporary. As such I'd opt for the anthemic opening of "Wake Up" by The Arcade Fire. Absolutely bloody fantastic. Alternatively "The Dark Is Rising" by Mercury Rev (but stop it before that whiny-arsed singing starts. Then again, maybe now that we are paupers we should simply trot out to the theme tune of Steptoe & Son.

I was so deeply unhappy (massive understatement) with yesterday's result I was unable to bring myself to watch MOTD or read the reports in this morning's papers, but reading this thread has eased my troubles and brought a smile to my face. Presumably this heavy defeat will put an end to the mindless expectations of some that we will be challenging for the Champions League, while those you think we can buy new players with fresh air in the bank vault will perhaps realise we aren't the most attractive club to join and we can get down to more sensible discussion. Yesterday we lost because Pompey strengthened their team, albeit at the eleventh hour, while we replaced one star striker with a journeyman (sorry folks, but he is) and a player with a modest European reputation and no experience of this league. The midfield and defence are no stronger and given that each of them is a year older it's hard to see how some of them will be any better. Furthermore, Pompey wanted to win, the crowd were behind them and, as ever, certain members of our team lost their heads when under pressure. They've done it before, repeatedly, and they'll do it again but on other days they'll play a blinder for us. Some you win, some you get stuffed. We lost. It's not the end of the world so all of you erstwhile members of the we-could-get-to-the-champagne-charlies-league brigade don't see this defeat as a cue to form the we're-going-to-get-relegated-at-this-rate society.

If Simon Garner's disappointing pamphlet is anything to go by, I wouldn't be sad if I didn't read too many memoirs of former players. That said, if they did put their words into print (and not the words of a ghost writer) I'd be interested to read... Mark Atkins - I wonder how he felt as a player with a modest degree of talent in a Championship winning team playing alongside a clutch of internationals and how the highs of the 94/95 season compared to relegation from the league with Shrewsbury. Tim Sherwood - the captain of the championship and the apparent chief plotter among the players against Woy Hodgson. His love/hate relationship with the fans would be interesting to read about too. Alan Shearer - What does he think of us? I'd also be interested to learn how many chapters he devotes to Rovers compared to the barcodes. David Batty - time the whole Le Saux in Moscow episode was fully explained. Corrado Grabbi / Kevin Davies - I just wonder how the biggest p1ss-takers in football would excuse their appalling displays for us. Graeme Souness - would he finally come clean and accept that for every good thing he did for us there was an equal and opposite reaction? Would his delusions of grandeur prevent him from admitting his mistakes. With a career as varied as his where he has achieved both great acclaim and great derision any book of his could be a potential classic. Tuagy - my favorite Rovers player and I'd be interested to learn what he thinks about the relationship he has with the fans and his adopted home in East Lancashire that is so utterly different to Istanbul and the baying mob at Galatasaray. David Dun - if his entry on Friends Reunited is anything to go by I expect any book of his would probably be a colouring book.

For a cheap day out and the chance to act like a kid you might want to visit Brimham Rocks in North Yorkshire. The website doesn't do it justice. Anyway, I went there a few times as a kid and absolutely loved it. Last summer I was doing the dutiful uncle bit and took some of the younger members of the Sidders clan in the hope they would enjoy it as much as I did. I was a bit nervous as I was thinking that it might not have been as good as I'd remembered and these kids were raised on Play Stations and all that hi-tech nonsense. Anyway, they loved it and we spent several very happy hours clambering up huge natural rock formations with not a care for health and safety regulations. The kids showed off their climbing skills (one of my nephews climbed one of the higher stacks that had everyone else stumped), while I enjoyed act like a 12 year old again. Then again, I act like that for a fair proportion of the time anyway... It's a bit of a trek (near Harrogate) but all it costs is the price of petrol and a few quid for the pay and display car park. You can stay there as long as you like. Stump Cross Caverns is also round that way so it's easy to combine the two.

Complicity by Iain Banks - sex, drugs, computer games, sex, journalism, friendship, kinky sex and murders (lots of them). Absolutely bloody great and one of the most entertaining reads I've had in a while. In the past I have found Banks novels either superb (Wasp Factory, Crow Road and Whit) or rather disappointing (Walking On Glass and A Song Of Stone) but Complicity is definitely one of the best of his that I have read. A very modest 310 pages and thoroughly recommended. The Shark Mutiny by Patrick Robinson - should be renamed The @#/? Mutiny. Not my normal cup of tea but it's amazing what lengths you are driven to while camping in Cumbria in the rain. Quite probably the most badly written novel I have ever had the misfortune to begin reading. I say begin reading rather than read as it was abandoned after less than 30 pages. The thought of reading the remaining 466 pages was just too much for mortal flesh to consider.

I was given a battered copy of Shogun a few years ago by a family friend who was moving house and wanting to downsize and he reckoned I'd like it. So far it has sat on the shelf gathering dust despite encouragement from my brother (whose taste in literature is distinctly questionable) but having seen the positive notices above I might give it a whirl soon. I have so far been put off by flashbacks to the bloody awful Richard Chamberlain mini-series of the mid 80s based on the book. Tell me it's better than that. In the meantime Iain Banks' Complicity is rattling along nicely. Radagast, give yourself a treat and try IMPERIAL GOVERNOR by George Shipway. Far better than that Dark Tower stuff and it's the sort of book you'll read twice.

I've often wondered about the sex lives of cannibals and their methods of foreplay. Presumably there are some things that require a heightened sense of trust...

I should have added that The Conscience Of The King by Alfred Duggan would appeal to fans of George Macdonald Fraser as Cerdic Elesing is very like Harry Flashman. He's essentially a complete rogue that exploits others to get what he wants. His method of ending an unhappy marriage would also be a lesson to many and he's fantastically xenophobic and heretical. I can see that he would appeal to many on here. Available on Amazon at very reasonable rates.

Now that summer is here and the World Cup is over I figured it was time for a bit of a round-up. Since last time I have been spending a lot of my time reading very dull academic texts but now that I've got rid of all that rubbish I've been able to plough through a few novels. Among them were... Excavation by James Rollins - billed as suspenseful page turner but turned out to be the most infantile novels I have ever had the misfortune to part with my hard-earned cash for. Complete and utter pigshite and I would not recommend it to anyone. Labyrinth by some vacuous tart - this book was foisted on me by a work colleague and I was assured that it was a cracking read and I had to ignore the "chick lit" tag it had acquired. It had also been recommended on this thread by Rovers Air Force. In short, it's a badly written yarn set in two time periods about a set of 2d characters that it's hard to find even an atom of empathy for as they try to solve a big mystery. This book is monumentally boring and after 300 pages of this childish, tiresome bilge I gave up on it. DO NOT READ THIS RUBBISH! The Conscience Of The King by Alfred Duggan - now we're talking! This book is the fictionalised memoir of the semi-legendary Cerdic Elesing, king of Wessex and ancestor of virtually all kings and queens of England, including the current queen. Cerdic is not a likeable man as he lies, cheats, murders, loots and seduces his way to the top but displays a commendable sense of purpose. Superbly written and instantly engaging this book was a delight. I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in historical fiction as well as anyone who has dreams of being their one boss. Worth more than any of those motivational speeches as everyone can learn something from old Cerdic. Epic stuff and even King Arthur makes a brief appearance. For those in the know, it's in the same league as Eagle In The Snow and Imperial Governor. Northern Lights by Philip Pullman - this book is for kids? Jeez! Let's get this straight, the Vatican does nothing but lie, children are used by mad scientists that often result in their deaths, there's a war, one of the central characters fights to the death in unarmed combat with another and there's a woman going round abducting kids who has a monkey that is even more sinister than the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. It's a bit different to Enid Blyton! Got to say I absolutely loved this book and found it to be a surprisingly grown-up read. Pullman has a surreal imagination but he always manages to explain himself very well to create his alternative world and I was never left feeling "this is all a bit geeky" as I have done when reading the likes of Pratchett, Tolkien and other fantasy novelists. The idea of all humans having their own daemon is just inspired and one of the most original plot devices I think I've ever read. Go on, treat yourself. Next up is Complicity by Iain Banks. Surely I'm not the only one who has read something lately? Come on, post your recommendations.

Ah yes, Robinson kicks ball out, hits Crouch, bounces off, Portuguese defence clear the ball. (Repeat ad nauseam) The Portuguese must be laughing their nads off tonight.

So you're as gutless as Ericsson then. If he had taken Defoe, Bent, Beattie, etc instead of that overgrown mascot, Walcott, we could have gone with three at the back and played another striker. Furthermore, if we'd had a semi-competent striker we cpuld have played someone INSTEAD of Sideshow Crouch who spent most of his time on the pitch passing to the opposition. If you don't believe me just watch the highlights.

No offence intended but we don't agree on many things... Flitcroft for one, and as for my knowledge of Chorley girls, it's not something I like to talk about.

If you GENUINELY believe Crouch is the third best English striker I would suggest you need an urgent psychiatric assessment.

Oh bollux to it, it's a Mickey Mouse competition anyway. We were let down by not having sufficient strikers. I'd say Ericsson was taking a huge gamble taking Owen and Rooney, but in taking the untested Walcott he was just going potty. Why on earth did we take so many holding/defensive midfielders? Hargreaves, Carrick and Jenas seems a bit of a luxury but given that Ferdinand can also fill that role, it seems bordering on extravagent. I bet I know which Englishman has the longest face tonight; Jermaine Defoe who was kept out of the squad by two crocked players, a circus sideshow freak and a child. I wouldn't be surprised if the poor sod wasn't hanging from the rafters by now. The Lampard/Gerard combination clearly doesn;t work and I think we have all seen that those two, while superb club players, are NOT world class when compared to those who are. They haven't done the business and Lampard could still be running round the Kelsengirchen pitch right now on his own and clueless ###### still wouldn't be able to score. Humble Pie Moment: In recent weeks I have suggested Owen Hargreaves was rubbish. I take it all back as he has done very well in recent games and I thought he was our best player today. Similarlyy, Rio Ferdinand who I have unfairly likened to Jar Jar Binks. He did very well today. As for Rooney, it's hard to tell if his foot to ###### moment was intentional or not. If not, he was unlucky. If so, he deserved what he got. End of. Cristiano Ronaldo - the player we all love to hate. What can I say about the cheating, greasy haired, goose-stepping, clown-footed rent boy that hasn't been said already? I inly hope, for his sake, he gets the move abroad that he wants. If he comes back here next season he's going to get a very hard time everywhere he goes. Hell freezing over moment: It's a rare day that I agree with Abbey, but for once he is right. Ericsson is the one with whom the true blame lies. His team selection was poor, his tactics laughable, his substitutions inept and his motivation pitiful. As I have said before, he is a man with no honour and the end of his tenure as Englad coach could not come soon enough. Sadly, we've now got McLaren. Anyway, at least Dr Who was good.

Absolutely gutted that the Socceroos have lost... but that's only because I have them in the sweepstake. Can't help but feel that Hiddink missed a trick and didn't go all out for the win once the Italians were down to ten men. It was obvious to everyone that if the Italians got into the Australian penalty area and had to face the merest hint of a challenge they would go to ground. Shouldn't have been a penalty. Then again, it shouldn't have been a red card either. Fair play to the Aussies, they had a go, they played fair, they didn't roll about in mock agony and they showed they were good enough to justify their place in the tournament.