JHRover

You mean external income like profits from player trading? £15 million for AA last summer. Probably the same again this for BBD £10 million flushed away this summer from free agents walking away Failing to accept good money for Rothwell in January. How much more external income can we hope for?

Ah so we are back on the 'shit or bust' talk just because I want and think we need more than 3 more signings. Doesn't take much to get onto that line does it? There is absolutely no evidence that signing 5 or 6 rather than 3 would cause any issue with FFP. You seem to equate a desire for more signings to be the same as gambling the future or risking FFP problems. That is nonsense. The wage bill has been demolished over the last 12 months. There should be plenty of scope there to bring more signings in. Typical though isn't it. Wanting a few more signings to add depth and competition, essential for a competitive Championship side, is being portrayed as risky, dangerous, unworkable and potentially taking us to Derby territory. Ludicrous. Makes me laugh. You appear grateful to the 'management' for their 'strategy' and can talk about turnover and FFP keeping a straight face without recognising the very same management have allowed £10 million in assets to walk this summer for £0 and have also forced us into a corner on Armstrong and Brereton due to expiring deals. You can't have it both ways - if you applaud the management for an academy focused approach and managing a FFP tightrope you can't then accept what has happened this summer with Nyambe and Lenihan.

Yes, to develop players good enough to play. Hopefully they will be. But there's a balancing act. The Club comes first and that means aiming for promotion. Not existing for the sole purpose of developing players at the expense of club progress. Its not £5 million a year. Its less than £2 million to the club.

So having been 2nd in February, top 6 until the last few games, and having got off to a flying start to this season you'd take a midtable finish now? There's the Venky effect in plain sight. Something very solid there to build on for a new manager with new ideas and some backing. Hasn't materialised. Half the players you name as 'additions' to replace the outgoings were already here last season. Vale, Markanday, Carter etc. They aren't additions, and we don't know yet if they are good enough. They are getting a look in not necessarily because they are better than those who have left, but by virtue of the fact they are cheap and still under contract and it is more cost effective than signing alternatives. Maybe it was the ownership and management to blame for the shambolic state of recruitment and contracts that now requires this rebuild, and not Mowbray? If so what makes you think anything has changed?

Too many question marks and risks though isn't there? Hedges has been sensational so far this season, but lo and behold gets injured after 3 games, and its very early days as to whether he is as good as Rothwell. Markandy - far too many questions there - I'm yet to see anything that suggests he is ready for the requirements of the Championship Smodicz - jury definitely still out but not looking great at this point Dack - not being played so as you were with him and question marks over whether he will get back where he was. I'm not suggesting 'piling up' with 'journeymen' (though Caulker would fit that criteria) - I'd be content for a couple of the gaps to be filled with loans or younger end additions - but think we are taking a lot of risks and gambles if we are leaving it at 3. I shouldn't be surprised because don't think there was ever any intention to do more than the minimum on bringing players in and hoping those already here step up to the mantle. The question to be asked is whether the squad is stronger than the one we had last season. I don't think anyone can argue that it is. We've had a good start and might have a much better manager, but the squad is not stronger and doesn't have as many options or depth. That' alone tells me the summer window has been a poor one to date.

It's 12. I've named them and can name them again if you need. I'm not interested in what the individuals did or didn't do, they were all experienced players who when fit could be called upon to fill in or could be turned to in the event of injuries or suspensions to see us through. 6 while hoping 3-4 kids make up the shortfall is not covering 12 departures no. And that's assuming the 3-4 kids are up to the same standard, which nobody knows yet. As above I'd hoped there was a plan to IMPROVE on the depth and options of last season with more quality but seems merely filling in the gaps and hoping is the plan.

Van Hecke and Lenihan big misses - so far neither replaced and if Caulker is coming in that's a downgrade IMO Khadra - not replaced Rothwell - not replaced Both of these provided much needed creativity and a goal or two. Brad Johnson - not missed in so far as what he delivered on the pitch last season - but missed as experience and an option to call upon especially late in games when an extra body needed - not replaced. So even if we leave it at that - there's 4 or 5 that contributed significantly or were at least useful to have around the place who haven't been replaced. That's on the basis we are directly comparing to last year and not looking to improve on last year - I'd actually like to have MORE options than last year Is the height of ambition here just to try and cover for these departures with as few additions as possible? Or is it to improve on what we did last year? You seem to be mixing two things up here. I'm not arguing that all or even most of those that left I wanted to keep - I didn't - I was and am quite happy to see some of them go, and yes their contributions last season may have been minimal. But that doesn't mean we just head into a full season without bringing replacements in and hope the youngsters are up to it - which looks like what the plan is. Sooner or later for example we will need someone else to come into midfield - suspensions will come- and as soon as they do we are struggling and down to the bare bones again.

I don't think signing more than 3 is stockpiling. We've lost 12 this summer, so bringing in a maximum of 6 to replace them is quite a scale back. If you are 'building' a squad it seems odd to me that the response to losing 12 players is to at most sign 5 and bring in 1 on loan. Granted it has been the view of most on here but 5-6 more is the number a lot of people have come with and one which I had in mind. There has been talk - and still is - of signing 2 CBs. If 2 of the remaining 3 are CBs then that leaves just 1 addition for all those other positions. I think we are short in several positions. When JDT boldly promised a few weeks ago that we WOULD have a stronger squad come deadline day I interpreted that as meaning a bit more than a couple of CBs to address our crisis there and maybe 1 more. As ever I detect a drastic revision and scaling back to ambitions as the window wears on. It seems to happen every window, talk all the way through about exciting targets, healthy budgets and signings coming and then by the time the final week comes around the number drops to a few and the original names that were bandied about appear to have gone and been replaced with over the hill desperation deals like Caulker. It just doesn't suggest a plan or ambition of any sort. Happy to be proven wrong but think JDT has had the situation spelled out to him and 3 is going to be the maximum we can hope for. And I still expect BBD to go which will be disastrous unless this lot get to spend the money and strengthen with it.

So the manager says we are now down to 3 new signings as what is to be expected. We've been talking about 5-6 and the manager was boasting we'd definitely have a stronger squad come deadline day. I can't see that. Expect it to be 2 by the time next week comes around. If that is Hyam, Caulker and one another that is abysmal. 12 out, 3 in and looks like at best another 3 to come. What a horrendous summer window.

What accounts are those?

So 8,000 average higher gate than us. Average ticket price if we are being generous of £20. 8,000 x 20 = £160,000 x 23 = £3.6 million Rough and ready figures but shows crowds don't deliver that much of an advantage, even though it is convenient for those at Rovers to claim it does. Before we start comparing wage bills, and I will suggest that Middlesbrough's is at least £3.6 million a year more than ours is, that money is quite insignificant when selling players for £30 million and letting £10 million of players walk away for nothing.

Think Mowbray is in for a long wait on a Championship job, and zero chance of him turning up at Sunderland. His reputation in local circles is far healthier than it is in wider football IMO. The only jobs I can see him ever getting in the Championship is somewhere like Rotherham. Since leaving here Blackpool, Huddersfield, Stoke, Birmingham, QPR all changed manager and he's barely been mentioned.

Bizarre. All must not be well at Sunderland as I can't imagine why he'd want to leave them after promotion to join Stoke. I know Stoke have money but Sunderland can't be that far behind surely.

Khadra wasn't awful, and the fact he is under contract with a well run PL club and has joined and is playing for one of the strongest teams in this division suggests that people better qualified than on here know this. I'll throw an example out there - his winning goal away at Stoke last season - anyone else in our ranks now capable of doing that? No is the answer when BBD leaves.

When Diazmania kicked off we should have been arranging fixtures in Chile and tapping into the massive interest there. All sort of other link ups we could have done there too with Chilean sponsors etc. Aside from a couple of new t-shirts in the club shop have we done anything to capitalise on his unexpected yet massive rise?

Let's be honest they've got form for this sort of thing - bringing in a lame duck to divert attention away from what is really going on and convince the masses that there is a positive plan or ambition. Whilst the focus is on that lame duck the real agenda accelerates away from view. I think Paul Lambert was one of those - he might even have been aware of that himself and willing to go along with it - but he was brought in mid-season, all the focus shifted onto him and a bright future under a surprisingly good appointment. End result? It lasted a few months, they got Rhodes out of the door for over £10 million and the money disappeared, Lambert walked and we were left with a further exodus that summer. Paul Senior another. Middle of a relegation season, fans rightly in uproar as to what had happened - bring in a snake oil salesman to smooth talk everyone about what grand plans he had and what was going to happen. I won't forget how enamoured many fans were by him and how wonderful things were going to be. End result? It lasted 5 months, we signed one player on loan and he was gone when we were relegated. Broughton and by extension JDT are looking similar. Replace Rhodes with BBD and the similarities are obvious. Meanwhile the owners, more importantly their man in the shadows, persist in the background yet NEVER get any direct focus or criticism from the press, left alone to continue doing whatever it is they do. The price of employing a Lambert, Senior or Broughton for 6-12 months absolutely minimal in the scheme of things if it means the agenda can be delivered quickly and quietly.

Waggott, Pasha and Venkys are laughing through all this. Broughton made into the fall guy. All media and fan focus on him. Barely a mention of the real issues and problems at the Club. I'm increasingly convinced that's all Broughton's appointment was - to take the others out of the spotlight and put an outsider into the firing line for the next round of cuts.

I'd rather we guarantee Championship survival and have an outside chance of promotion - which will both happen with Diaz at our disposal - than be destined for a season of struggle and potentially relegation without him. That might sound like an overreaction but it doesn't take much to slide down this division and selling your only goalscorer a few days before the window shuts isn't going to end well. Championship status is worth more than the fee we get for him. PL status is definitely worth more.

Time and time again people think the money will be reinvested and that we will come out of this better off than before. It just doesn't happen here - another reason we will never 'do a Brentford'. When Brentford were forced to sell Ollie Watkins to Villa they landed £30 million for him, because he was under long term contract, and immediately reinvested a large portion of that on Ivan Toney, along with a few others. We know from experience that won't happen here. Even if by some miracle the owners allow some of the money back into the pot, it will be limited to a couple of million and our wage structure will prevent that being put to much use. Meanwhile the vast majority of the cash does nothing to benefit the team or club. Just like the Armstrong, Rhodes and Gestede money didn't.

The vast majority of the debt is to the owners. It is interest free with no date for repayment. It will only ever be paid back if they decide they want to try and claim it, which isn't going to happen. It has absolutely no bearing on our ability to sign players right now. Low turnover - admittedly a big problem - but one which the Club and owners have done next to nothing to address for going on 10 years. The reciept of £15 million from AA and soon to be £15 million for BBD in the space of 12 months comfortably outweighs any hindrance we have from lower income and turnover than rivals. I didn't say it was easy to identify these players. But the club is employing 'experts' on huge salaries to run this. So the self-pity its ever so hard line I don't buy. We can offer much more or at least should be able to offer much more than dross like Blackpool, Luton, PNE, Wigan, Millwall and the like yet it appears not. The alternative to not getting the 'right' player is not to sign nobody at all. I see you are a 'jam tomorrow' member - so now we can't judge the summer window because it is too early for the new super structure to be measured on? Carry on at this rate JDT will walk - he's obviously getting fed up - and then we can start from scratch again next summer and it will be too early then to form opinions. Speaking of half baked conspiracies - what would it take for you to believe the simple yet seemingly unpalatable possibility that our problems are simply a result of disinterested owners who have turned the money taps down to such a trickle we can barely operate at this level? Instead it seems preferable to believe in every other possibility going - club reputation, FFP, turnover, debt, too early for Broughton, poor us

Can you elaborate on this point, and explain to me how with a scaled back wage bill, squad consisting predominantly of kids and academy players, with a recent major sale of a prized asset and it seems likely another one to follow, that our 'specific financial state' and 'current reputation' means we are incapable of signing any players to fill massive gaps in the squad? Anyone else in the Championship finding it this hard? Current reputation - we've just assembled what appears to be a professional and thought out structure led by an ambitious head coach. We were in an automatic promotion race until March and narrowly missed the play offs. Not aware of any other Championship clubs with a net profit on trading in the last 12 months of over £10 million and likely to hit £25 million if BBD is sold whilst ALSO having billionaire owners in place.

Age old transfer strategy. Do very little until the last day or two hoping that the PL boys agree to send a few loans here at low cost to Rovers or potential permanent signings/selling clubs drop their demands at the last minute and we can land a bargain. Sounds clever but it isn't.

Surprising. Could be good for us, could be bad. Doubt a new manager will be in place in time so it might be a caretaker job which could go either way.

Vague as ever. You'll be satisfied and arguing all is well if we only sign 1-2. How do you define 'quality'? No matter who comes in you will be on here saying they are good additions and that nobody can question or criticise them until they have had a run in the team.

But to say he was never going to sign a new deal isn't right and suggests the club could have done nothing to avoid this situation. They could- if they had dealt with contracts in the lead up to summer 2021 whilst other clubs were doing such things. As with Rothwell a deal was there to be done and the club did nothing but rely on 1 year options and time remaining on existing deals. As for this summer zero ambition has been shown to improve or better on last season. Despite managing to land what looks like a good manager he hasn't been supported up to this point and we are now in danger of momentum being lost and of him becoming disillusioned. The warning signs are there.