You over simplify things. Of course you can't force them to sign. But you can act in a way that is more likely to persuade them to. Like making them feel wanted and needed, instigating negotiations in a timely manner and making them healthy offers. I don't think those things have happened here and you only have to look at how Waggott treats paying supporters to obtain a glimpse into the workings of his mind. Activating 12 month extensions was hailed as a masterstroke on here but in actual fact was probably the final nail in the coffin in making those players minds up to get the hell out of here. I can't blame them. If I wasn't emotionally and locally attached to this club I'd do the same. And what money issues do we have that stops us paying these lads similar to Middlesbrough? Did I imagine the slashed wage bill last summer and Armstrong cash?

I'm astonished even by your standards. You have seen what from Brown and Hedges to convince you that they are good enough for a mid-table Championship side? 2-3 cameos in low pressure games at the end of last season? This is a squad game not a 1st XI game so whilst it doesn't look too bad when you list our best XI you and I both know that this doesn't work in the reality of the Championship. Ayala another year older and he only plays half a season at the best of times. Still big question marks over Dack's fitness and durability and BBD will have to be sold whether he is happy here or not. He's hardly going to be persuaded to hang around after watching 3 key players head off elsewhere is he? I see that we are now shifting the narrative - Nyambe doesn't suit JDT's 'style' so its fine he's leaving on a free transfer and Lenihan might have wanted a change of scenery from being our captain and mainstay to go to.......Middlesbrough? I doubt he'll even move house for that one. Unless his wife has decided she wants to live on Teesside and forced him to leave like some folk reckon happened with Rothwell and Reed's partners?

Who said anything about throwing loads of money at it? Just paying our academy grads competitive wages and dealing with the extensions of contracts in a timely and professional manner would be a start. Derby's issues with FFP came because they tried fiddling their accounts and got caught. Not sure we'd need to do that just to pay our lot more. How much off the wage bill in the last 12 months? This is Venky cost cutting. Nothing more, nothing less. Dangerous game in this league.

Not sure I did get it wrong. There was no problem with Derby until Mel Morris suffered health issues and decided he wasn't going to put any more money in. I keep hearing this 'sailing close to the wind' stuff. Middlesbrough, Stoke, Bristol City, all have lost way above and beyond the limits on FFP and none of them have been sanctioned whilst spending more than us. Its a myth, a convenient tool for Waggott and the Venky entourage to spout off about as an excuse for them stopping spending again. In my opinion of course. The only clubs to suffer from it are those run by idiots - Us, Cardiff, Birmingham, Reading. No coincidence that the biggest spenders and those with clued up owners keep on getting away with it.

I think we need closer to 10 signings, and probably 10 if we lose anyone else.

I don't think there is any plan, desire, intention of replacing Nyambe with a cash transfer. It will be, at best, a loan for the season. This will kick the can down the road for another 12 months until we face the same issue next year. In the meantime the 'powers that be' will have their fingers crossed that someone emerges from the academy who is up to the job.

Comparisons to the Brentford model simply don't stack up on 3 counts. 1) The people running Brentford are experts in their field and also in European markets, particularly Denmark and Holland. They have been able to unearth talent from there and the lower leagues with remarkable success more than pretty much any other club. We've had Waggott and Mowbray for the last 5 years. HOPEFULLY that is to start to change with the new structure but think there is more to it than just employing people who have worked in those European leagues before. They need to be good at it, need to be able to get on with it and need to be financially backed to do so. If not it is a waste of our time. 2) Brentford were on top of their contracts. Case in point being leading man Ollie Watkins, who was signed up to a 5 year deal once they realised he was banging goals in the Championship and becoming hot property. This deal secured them a £30 million transfer fee from Aston Villa. Compare to us who have ended up with relative peanuts for Armstrong, Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe, not to mention Raya, and will now be forced to sell BBD at a relatively low price too. 3) Brentford reinvested the proceeds of their sales. No sooner was Watkins out the door to Villa that they went out and got Ivan Toney for £5-10 million on a 5 year deal.

I don't know what to make of the 2,000+ season ticket holders last year who haven't yet renewed. I'm one of them. On the one hand I wonder if a lot of them are like me - people who will probably renew but have a habit of leaving these things until the 11th hour and will only be forced into it as the deadline approaches. On the other hand we've already had two deadlines come and go with this botched sales process and these people haven't renewed in advance of either of those to secure their 'loyalty discount' so are they going to be bothered about doing so before the end of the month? Bearing in mind that even with the 'surge' of half season ticket sales we were only at 8,000 or so to have over 25% of those still not renewed is concerning, because if these people are undecided or aren't renewing that is a big old percentage of an already small number.

Why couldn't we have the best of both worlds and go down the Middlesbrough road? Remember it is now going to cost money to adequately replace these big departures. So it could end up causing further damage to our FFP situation than it would if we had just made reasonable offers in a timely manner. We are owned and run by idiots. Middlesbrough and Stoke aren't. That's the difference.

How is that possible under FFP?

It would feel better if these players were going to clubs bigger, or at least in a higher league than us. In those circumstances you can hold your hands up and accept the situation and move on, albeit still significantly out of pocket. But what we are facing is losing them to immediate rivals. The likes of Middlesbrough and Stoke. Mid table Championship sides. Sides who I have been told for the last 3-4 years have their FFP comeuppance looming and that these clubs would be sanctioned due to their huge losses and wages whilst good old Rovers make sacrifices in order to avoid that fate. Back in the real world they haven't been sanctioned, despite losing far more than us, just as I confidently predicted they wouldn't, and are now able to cherry pick our key, prized core academy developed players by offering them better packages Think a few on here need to admit they were wrong about those sanctions and that we've been taken for fools. Venkys out. Waggott out. Asap.

So whatever Broughton said or offered clearly not enough to persuade Nyambe to hang around. Rumours are a move to Stoke so we can't even use the comfort blanket of him going to a higher division club. For all the hot air rivals are paying more and are more attractive places to be. As for Waggott he should resign. There has to be a consequence to the travesty of losing 3 key players for £0 like this.

Then why didn't they do that and let Mowbray spend some of the Armstrong cash, particularly in January when we had promotion in our sights?

Good job then that Armstrong turned down our supposedly very good offer of a new deal and forced us into a sale. If not and he'd accepted our offer where would we have found the money to cover running costs? 🤷

Let's see how far this 'good budget' Broughton referred to gets us. There's been plenty of talk here over the years about grand plans, good budgets and the like. I'll believe it when I see it. For all the optimism I still fully expect to get to September and see £30 million in from Armstrong and Brereton in 12 months and a million or so at most out on new players.

Because they aren't loyal. That's the way he wants to play this. Never mind that people may have agonised about giving up their season ticket, people who were afraid of Covid risk, people who have lost jobs or income during the last couple of years, people who are struggling now with the economic situation. Nope, if you are renewing from last season you are loyal and qualify for the 'discount' whereas if you aren't renewing, aren't decided, aren't sure if you can or for a plethora of reasons couldn't get one last season you don't qualify so full price it is.

I think Rovers stopped with the free season tickets when Waggott twigged that it meant hundreds of staff members including Community Trust were each getting 2 free season tickets and were able to dish these out to whoever they wanted. Probably saw the best part of 600-700 freebies and I think Waggott thought people would buy instead if that loop was closed.

Whilst i certainly wouldn't be opposed to the 'loan to buy' route if the player in question is of good quality, it does leave me wondering when we will just 'buy'. Sooner or later we need to invest real money into players on real contracts with us, not kicking the can down the road for another 12 months as quite soon we will end up with no assets left.

I see the latest game is to profile a former player / club legend as "one of our own" and then offer supporters the chance to be the same by buying an expensive season ticket. Clueless

You're probably right on this point. There is more to it than just offering a lower price and assuming thousands more decide to buy. The attitude at Rovers seems to be that people will come and get one if they want one. Next to no proactivity. Printing off a price list and posting it out to all existing season ticket holders is really schoolboy stuff. Preston have sold their highest amount in 50 years, this during an economic mess, off the back of a pandemic and following a mediocre season where they floated around the bottom half. Yet they've come up with pricing that people like, have made a managerial appointment people like and have promoted it properly - I've heard of people out in Garstang and Clitheroe putting flyers through doors advertising tickets. Have Rovers done similar? No they haven't. For the second time in 5 years we've been sat in a glorious position in February with a promotion push to look forward to in the run in. People respond to these sort of things. Yet on neither of those occasions have we so much as announced season ticket prices until after the end of the season. That is madness. The one thing drifting support will respond to more than anything is a promotion push and winning games, we've had that in the palms of our hands and done nothing to capitalise on it. Season tickets should have been on sale and pushed relentlessly to the 5000+ matchday buyers turning up at Ewood in the second half of last season. Get them signed up whilst the going is good and the feeling is positive. Give them 20% early bird discount to buy before the end of April (or something along those lines) to give them a genuine reason to get in there quickly and hand over their money.

Preston aren't in the 3rd division, nor Wigan. So how are they doing it without billionaires behind them picking up a large part of the tab? They even do it whilst keeping their ground tidy and their pitch in working order.

I'm confused. It doesn't seem like 5 minutes ago we were being told that if it wasn't for the great and benevolent Venkys that we'd certainly go the same way as Blackpool, Wigan and Bolton. Are we still on that and how come all that lot can charge so much less without those great owners?

We have billionaire owners, lose almost £20 million a year, have recently sold a striker for £15 million and will probably do so again this summer, Preston don't have any of the above, yet have been able to offer prices much lower than us and put our sales to shame, all whilst losing less per year and performing just as well in the league, and also investing in facilities which have been neglected here. 13,000 sales at £250 brings in more money than 8,000 at £400. So looks like there's a good chance that despite these prices PNE will have brought in more cash for FFP calculations and that's before the benefit on atmosphere and income from food and drink. Rivals show it can be done, which defeats the convenient narrative established here over the last few years under FFP and parachute excuses are being shown up as false. It can be done, we just don't want to.

This club could and should be getting 13,000+ Bolton and Preston have proven that and I am grateful to them. It destroys certain myths spread around the Rovers support base. Falling just short of that - maybe back to 11,000 or so - might be acceptable but to be 6,000 short of that is unacceptable.

You learn a lot about a club by the effort put into things such as its matchday programme. The small things that separate the clubs that try and those that don't. Of course selling programmes is not, in this day and age, a source of income. That doesn't mean you just do away with it. Some clubs treat matchday programmes as an opportunity to engage with their support, keep people in the loop, paint a positive picture of the club to dignitaries and visiting supporters, and another route to advertising for sponsors. Others treat it as just another burden, unwanted hassle and as it doesn't make any money it is far easier just to do away with it. Of course there is another approach - just as there is another approach to season tickets, merchandise, closing stands at Ewood, closing the club shop in the town, having a woeful offering of matchday food and drink etc - yet sadly no such effort to be found at Ewood and easier just to shrug shoulders and get rid.