1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Your quote that is supposedly said every time we lose is obviously a massive exaggeration. But ultimately the problem is that the vast majority of the money weve had in the last 2 years has been horribly wasted and perhaps suggest that the manager will struggle to progress us to the team we aspire to be and ultimately we have never been in the top 6 which is our target. Those 2 frustrations and concerns are naturally unconvered when we lose a game.

I've probably read each of those comments on here in the last week to be fair.

I get the frustration re Gallagher & Brereton I really do, but to focus on those 2 signings alone and say TM deserves sacking for them ignores the value he's made on Dack & Armstrong. And who knows, if either one of Gallagher or Brereton notches 10-15 goals in the next 18 months we might get most of that money back, because that's how crazy the market is.

Do I think that will happen? Probably not, but look at Che Adams for example; he's 23, had 1 good season in a very average team that came from nowhere, and he got a £15m move...

1 hour ago, 47er said:

He's a manager who's won trophies is Pep. No settling for second with him. Chalk and cheese.

I think he's settling for second this season!

Joking aside I wasn't attempting to compare TM with Pep, I was responding to Roversfan99's comment about City fans not accepting 17th place. Of course Pep is one of the best in the game & way above TM in stature, though I do wonder how he & others like him would manage at a club lower down the divisions that didn't have such an array of wealth & talent at its disposal.

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely its natural for football fans to be "upset" when their team loses?

I presume Man City fans are unhappy because their aim was to win the League again and they are miles away. Do you think their fans would be pacified if you said to them "youd think we was in 17th place?"

The weakest part of our team is probably out wide where we only have 1 short term injury and literally no other competent options, assuming Downing is a central player at his age (far more effective there) and Armstrong a striker. 

 

Yes be upset, of course. But let's get some perspective & proper context into how it's expressed; we've just gone 4 games undefeated, 2 wins & 2 draws, despite tough injuries sustained in 3 of those games. We've gone 4 months undefeated at home. To then lose narrowly to Fulham is no disaster. 

Thing is, when we win games or go on winning runs there's too many who argue it's in spite of Mowbray: "OK so we've won, but it's only 'cos he listened to us fans. He won't win the next one 'cos he'll pick his favourites again or spin his tombola, so he's taken us as far as he can and he's only in it for his pension". But when we lose games it's because of him, even when (like yesterday) he's picked an 11 that most people thought was decent; "it was inevitable we'd lose today with him in charge, he can't set up a team to win games, that's why he's taken us as far as he can".

Every defeat is followed by "he needs to go", how on earth can that be rational when we've had more wins than defeats? Why can't people accept that in football, not everything goes to plan and that there's stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we're not privy to but which will be absolutely at the heart of his decision making? 

Yes I'm sure City fans are concerned at the moment; they've put up a meek defence of their title having also endured a poor summer transfer window and injuries to key players, just like us. They're much further away from their target than we are from ours, yet even though they've lost a quarter of their league fixtures (not that dissimilar to Rovers' record of having lost a third of ours), their fans aren't calling for Pep's head.

I've read up until page 17 of this thread then got frustrated at all the OTT criticism again.  It was always going to be a tough game against a pre-season favourite in good form, even without our injuries, so why are people upset when that's what plays out?

I don't buy the theory that we set out just to avoid defeat. Yes we worked on trying to nullify their potency, but that's not the same thing. We were actually the better team for the first 15 mins I thought.

But overall it was a poor game, from both sides, shorn of any real quality. Neither team did enough to win it IMO; they passed it around more fluently after that initial spell, but mostly without menace. But for Travis unluckily playing Bryan in on the left when trying to intercept his pass, it would have finished 0-0. We could have drawn or won had Lenihan's goal been given (which looked fine to me but I've not seen a replay). If we'd have got the lucky deflection that Bryan got, or the offside decision goes our way, we win the game and are cockahoop like Fulham were as they knew they were given a tough game. It was those kind of fine margins that made the difference on the day.

The criticism I do agree with from yesterday is Gallagher out wide (which generally doesn't work and for which TM understandably gets criticised; maybe Bennett would have been more effective there seeing how Chapman is clearly out of the running) & Johnson, who I thought was a liability & overall I've been so disappointed with him, as I think we all are.

Tuesday's game is massive. Win and we're still well in the playoff hunt. Draw or lose and away at Charlton becomes must-win to keep hope's alive. I'd like to see Davenport in place of Johnson, and either Bennett, JRC or Chapman in place of Gallagher. Perhaps rotate Gallagher, JRC & Armstrong by playing Gallagher up top, JRC wide right with Armstrong in a free-ish no 10 role.

Let's try to be optimistic eh? We're far from out of the playoff hunt but listening to many on here you'd think we were knocking about in 20th place.

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Thanks Chaddy. So pretty experimental then. Good experience for the younger ones hopefully.

I see from the Boro website that the U23s were beaten last night 4-1. A Mols penalty (or Mocs as they call him) put us 1 up early on, but that was as good as it got. No wonder there's no mention of it yet on Rovers' website...

There's no comment what the Rovers team was, has anyone any ideas? I'm guessing (hoping!) it was a young one given it was a cup match that we're already through in, esp with all the first team injuries we have.

14 minutes ago, Tom said:

Is £2.5m for a league one player that bad? Especially compared to Brereton 

Arguably yes, if said player had a contract expiring in the summer (Maddison)

Horrible news. We are in the throes of family issues surrounding a very close relative who's suffering from early onset Alzheimer's and it's truly awful how someone so bright & bubbly can become so detached & dependant in such a short space of time. Getting help for her and for us as carers is a minefield.

I hope Tony & his family can draw some positives from the love, support & good wishes from the Rovers & football families. 

59 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I'm not talking about amounts of goals we have scored though.  I am talking options - even a plan B. Yesterday, we couldn't get Armstrong in the game and didn't really trouble Boro. Whereas, they had Assombalonga, Gestede and Nmecha - all strong, very direct physical players who, although wasteful, caused us headache after headache. I just wish we had one of those options. Instead we have Graham who is increasingly ineffective, Brereton who is consistently ineffective, Samuel consistently injured and apparently now, Bennett?!

Is this not a "grass is always greener" perspective though? There's no point having striking options if those options don't score when called upon. We have options & they get slated when they miss "easy" chances,  like Gallagher in midweek.  If he, Brereton or Samuel had missed any of Boro's chances late on yesterday they'd have been berated on here.

It's not as black & white as fans would like. We would have had to shell out big money on Assombalonga, Gestede or Nmecha, yet if we had I don't think we'd be any better off than with what we have. As Ossydave pointed out, we've scored 13 more goals than them across the season, some of which have been scored by an attacking player who Boro felt was surplus to requirements 12 months ago and has been one of our players of the season.

On 30/01/2020 at 20:35, Stuart said:

Such a shame we don’t have adequate cover and Mowbray will promote Bennett back to a starting berth before someone like JRC or Mols.

So this didn't happen; another example of an undroppable favourite being marginalised (a la Smallwood, Williams, Mulgrew etc.).

I know I come across as glass half full on here; that's because I like to believe that TM is principled, well-intentioned & deserving of the solid reputation he has within the game. He can be frustrating & contradictory in what he says sometimes, but he also has to work within a context (club / owner's demands, financial limitations, players' personal issues etc.) that we can't possibly know.

If we put aside the anti-Mowbray sentiment / narrative and look at the job he's done from an outsider's objective perspective, at this point in time most will say he has done a decent job overall considering the state of the club on his arrival.

Could he have done better? Probably, but he could have done much worse ( as many others did before him) or quit because he didn't fancy the challenge (like Lambert).

Can he take us further? Maybe, maybe not. This window was v disappointing but was it all his fault?

Who knows. But I believe he is well intentioned and deserves the goodwill of fans who all want the best for this club so far as is possible under the current regime.

Sorry, I've derailed this thread a bit; as you were.

On 29/01/2020 at 20:18, chaddyrovers said:

 

Great stat, and puts paid to the belief of some that we're slow starters. However, it probably also puts us high up the table for points lost from winning positions, added to further yesterday. 

That's a really frustrating aspect of this season (besides injuries to keep players & silly home defeats), but also what gives me some realistic hope that if we can just manage games a bit better we can turn draws into victories. Sadly, the ongoing loss of experienced players in key positions makes that harder.

12 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Tosin for his age is a one off. To buy a centre half with his technical ability is out of our price range. To bring one in on loan would take some finding

So we need to nurture them through from our own academy then, rather than be reliant on bringing them in from outside. There's been plenty said on here about us being better at bringing defenders through than midfielders or forwards, so I'm sure some focus is being placed on making those that do come through more confident ball players.

We're certainly capable, as proven in Jack O'Connell for example who inexplicably was allowed to slip through the net.

My understanding (from those who've been able to watch a lot of U23s & U18s matches) is that there's plenty of evidence of them playing progressive football out from the back that's been instilled by Johnson & is being continued by Barr & Sheron with some success.

Please correct me if I'm wrong those who watch Academy games, but that's my understanding. 

It's a yes from me, but it'll be tough. The race for promotion - including automatic promotion given the form Leeds & W Brom are in - is pretty wide open. (I'm not saying we're in the race for 1st or 2nd by the way, just that those places are not as cut & dried as they seemed a few weeks back!)

We've nothing to fear from any of those around or above us. No one is consistent and that gives us more than a sniff of a chance. Leeds lost at home to Wigan today (again), Fulham nearly threw away a 3 goal lead to 20th placed Huddersfield, Forest lost at Brum like we did, Millwall & Sheff Wed cancelled each other out yet we've won all 3 of our games against both of those this season with a combined score of 9-1!!

Our next 2 games are critical. Win both of those (as we're absolutely capable of) and who knows. No one will relish coming to Ewood, that's for sure.

Do I wish it were better? Of course. Mistakes have been made in recruitment & tactics this season. We should have 4-6 more points on the board. But I do sense this squad feels it has something to prove and that a siege mentality could grow on the back of our bad luck with injuries to key players, coupled with our failure to strengthen this window leading to accusations that the management don't care, which should hurt given the well-publicised team spirit & support for TM amongst the squad. 

They can prove the doubters wrong. Let's hope that they do. It won't be easy & will take a fair amount of luck, but it's absolutely possible & realistic imo.

In isolation this is a good result away to a team unbeaten at home in 8 games; the problem is it leaves us 6 points off the playoffs (albeit also 8 off 3rd) and puts a helluva lot of pressure on beating Fulham (that 3rd team, also in good form) next week.

There's still a lot of drama to play out yet over the next few months. I don't think we should be defeatist like a lot seem to be (admittedly  somewhat understandably after yesterday), especially if we can get 4 out of 6 points in the next 2 home games.

Holtby's injury is of course yet another setback in the "artists" section of the team. It's sounding like he'll be out a similar period of time to Rothwell, at least. 

I was v pleased with last night. We showed a mixture of the qualities needed to challenge for the playoffs. It wasn't the perfect performance but it was full of grit, passion & determination, with no shortage of ability in places, especially the first half.

We were perhaps a little lucky to get the win, but it was the sort of game we'd have drawn or lost last season so that's progress, especially as we ended up with a pretty youthful team by the final whistle. That said we created the clearer chances throughout, even in the second half. Their keeper was by far the busier, whereas they got very little change out of us one they reached out defensive third, save for their goal.

I'll take that type of win every week. My MOTM was Travis, he was everywhere, but Lenihan was also excellent bar for their goal.

I agree Gallagher & Downing (unusually) were our least effective players, with Holtby also quiet. If we can get them firing too, there's no reason we can't push on further, starting at 'Boro, where I don't think there's much to fear.

22 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

No matter which way you look at it three points are in the bag. Yes it was painful at times but you need a grit and determination to win these type of games remember we have lost many points over the past few seasons in similar games. There’s a bit of steel in the team at last and you can only beat what’s in front of you. We move in together 

I liked this post as I think it's spot on; however the last sentence seems to take the positive sentiment a little too far.

I can't believe some are almost writing off our season already! Yes I agree it's unlikely we'll reach the playoffs, but we're just as likely as 6-8 other teams to put a decent run together so we absolutely start with our strongest team game after game (which may change due to tactics, form, volume of games or injuries) until it becomes nigh on impossible to reach the playoffs. 

Then we can blood youngsters with an eye on next season. Otherwise, let's just have a couple on the bench and bring them on when we're comfortable (a la Sheff Wed).

The obvious ones being JRC, Buckley & Davenport. 

Great win yesterday, especially as those who were there say it was even more comprehensive than a 0-5 scoreline suggests. Nice to hear too that it wasn't just them going down to 10 men that was the catalyst.

Shame it's done little more than improve our goal difference & move us up a couple of places, so we need to follow it up with a good win v QPR for it to mean much.

It sounds like everything TM has been talking about wanting from "the way we play" came together yesterday; controlling possession, passing with intent, using pace to good effect, putting efforts on target. None of it rocket science but a good blend of passion, technique & confidence that, if replicated regularly, could really take us places.

Amongst many positives (Downing, Holtby, Nyambe, Travis, Armstrong, Gallagher),  I'm especially pleased to see JRC come on & contribute. Those two through balls for Armstrong then Gallagher were sublime, tore the defence to shreds. With Armstrong & Gallagher such willing runners, that could be a real weapon for us.

Let's keep feet on the ground though. There's no reason this cant be a springboard, but history tells us not to take things for granted and presume anything. A win v QPR (tough but certainly not unlikely; they were awful v Brentford but then beat Leeds yesterday) plus a couple of decent signings & we can go into February's run of 7 games with real confidence. 

9 hours ago, white boy said:

i only heard clapping my friend

Fair enough, some on here have said the same, others on here who were sat near me have agreed with me. I'm not for one moment saying it was widespread, and I saw many clapping too who I'm sure would have been as appalled as me at the actions of those who jeered.

4 minutes ago, bazza said:

We did on the Riverside. It was disgraceful.

That's where I sit, so maybe it was from a group at the Riverside side of the Darwen End.

On the game itself, we played better than I feared we might and should've won really, Rudd much the busier keeper. Good endeavour but lacking quality in the final third.

I agree with most that the Gallagher out wide experiment has run its course. Play him at CF or not at all.

I think that was our only weakness really. We had the upper hand in most areas, though Johnson was less effective than Evans has shown in recent weeks.

Defensively we were solid, not much could he done about their goal but they showed little else beyond that.

I'm not as dismissive as most on here re our playoff prospects, but we need a win in the next couple of games (more likely QPR than Sheff Wed, they were awful v Brentford). Problem is, injuries to key players really are starting to bite.

1 hour ago, AAK said:

 Most i saw were clapping. Minority as usual.

I agree it was a minority, but a pretty vocal one. I acknowledge most were rightly respectful and every club has its morons, but to hear what I heard really stuck in my craw & I'm surprised no one else on here seems to have heard it.

And that "referee" ought to hand in his whistle first thing on Monday morning. A disgrace.

I've only just got home and not read anything on this forum yet.

But I just want to say to the sizeable number of Preston "fans" who were booing & jeering Evans as he was being carried off on a stretcher after being treated for nearly 10 mins flat on his back, that you are morons & an embarrassment to yourselves, your families, your club and your town, and you are not welcome at any other football match ever again.

We've been there with the Portugeezers though, right?

I edited my previous comment to add "in terms of his desire", as that was actually JHRovers' point that I quoted.

There's evidence of desire, if not much through the door - yet. That's what I intended to say.