Just now, 47er said:

I think you're getting a bit carried away there! I'm just pointing out the fallacy of arguing that we're only 3 points behind when the fact is we've only played 6 games!

24 games would see us 12 points off 6th wouldn't it? Probably bottom half.

No I'm not the one getting carried away. A "Mowbray Out" thread started after Charlton was getting carried away, as was the "Wagner in" comment on this thread earlier this morning (I appreciate that neither of those were you).

Yes 7 points every 6 games would leave us 12 points back after 24 games IF we don't improve our points-to-games ratio and IF whoever's in 6th place after 24 games has the same points-to-games ratio that Fulham have now. But I very much doubt though that either of those ifs will become reality; this league is too unpredictable to draw that conclusion based on a 6 game sample.

Just now, david brent said:

There will never be a better opportunity to get promoted out of this league. I thought I saw something in the the way we played at Hull that we could be up there this season - I’m not sure after the last 2 league games. 

I agree that there is nothing for us to be scared of, but that doesn't mean there aren't tougher runs or easier runs of fixtures... and your first sentence was often stated by many on here last season, yet here we are with a supposed better chance in your opinion (I don't disagree).

The last 2 league games we've drawn and lost by one goal respectively, both against pre-season frontrunners for promotion.  Not disasters by any stretch, and also not typical of the average strength of opponent we will face this season.

Just now, Blue blood said:

A team with top 6 ambitions would've been eying up points at Albion. 

Sorry, did Rovers not eye up points there yesterday? That's not my reading of it, as if we weren't eyeing up points why did we high pressed them from KO, force an error & score inside 30 seconds?

Ok we ended up losing, but even at 3-1 down we pushed on, got a 2nd, had a 3rd disallowed & hit the post.

Hardly signs of a team consigning a game to defeat...

Just now, Blue blood said:

How are two rookie managers, a bog standard lower championship team, a weakened league 1 team in the first 6 games, coupled with 2 admittedly tougher games, classed as a tough start? A myth defending an average to indifferent start from TM saying it has been a tough run of games. 

There are no myths. Pretty much everyone on here felt our first 6 game sequence was tough, to say otherwise is rewriting history.

Fulham are more than just a team with a rookie manager; they spent £100m and still have a core of players starting that got them promoted last time. 

Boro are an established top half championship side, albeit on the decline / in transition.

Same with WBA, except they have a manager with a very strong pedigree.

Cardiff are a big, strong team that work well as a unit, did better in the Prem than most expected & were perhaps (tragically) only a striker away from surviving. They won at OT convincingly last game of the season, and have a manager most on here would have like a shot.

Hull was a winnable game; we won it.

The only real surprise was Charlton. Given where they are in the table, had that been our 6th game and not our first then maybe we'd have been less expectant of an easy 3 points. Plus we should've won that game anyway and have since replaced 2 of that game's back.

So I'd call that a reasonably decent start? Can we follow it up? TM deserves the chance to prove we can.

28 minutes ago, 47er said:

We're only 3 points off 6th because we've only played 6 games!

"Only played 6 games" is exactly why I'm saying let's stick with TM and give him the chance to gel what is a good, young, promising squad into something we can be proud of.  Those 6 games were widely viewed as a tough start on paper & so it's proved. But we're not rooted to the bottom on nil points as many on here predicted we would be after Charlton & Fulham, we're a couple of points off from people saying we've had a really good start. Fine margins can go either way of course, but a 3-2 away defeat to round off a tough opening sequence of games is not "sack TM and bring in Wagner / Hughton /Jokanovic / insert-name-of-any-other-manager-who's-achieved-promotion-in-the-last-5-years-here" material.

Far more sensible & less reactionary to see where we are at the start of the next international break, once the league's settled down a bit and we've had a fairer spread of matches across which to properly assess our progress (or lack of, as the case may be).  I reckon we'll be significantly higher in the table than 17th by then, if not then I'd agree that serious questions need to be asked.

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. 

He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club.

There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack.  We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

Only seen the Quest highlights.

All 5 goals came from defensive errors. Ours have been highlighted above aplenty so I won't repeat them, but our high press forced a defensive error for Dack's goal, and our second came from a keeper error.  

So it's not just us that seem to suffer from that malaise, and I agree with Chaddy that Cunningham was fouled for their first, though he should've put it in row Z first rather than try to shield it from the forward.

It's disappointing to lose, especially when scoring 2 goals, having one disallowed & hitting the post away from home. Individual errors, missing from the last three games, came back to haunt us and they need to be cut out.

I think the international break comes at a good time for us.  Johnson & Downing are looking leggy, and it gives TM time to work in training on making a proper defensive unit of our back 5 options and work out the best way to get the most out of our undoubted attacking options.

There are definitely positives to carry forwards (esp the likes of Travis, Johnson, Downing, Buckley, Cunningham). There's more to be expected from Arma, Gally, BB, Dack, Rothwell, Graham and I think that will come. The main negatives for me are not working the oppo's keeper enough despite possession, Arma being underwhelming, a lack of game time for Rothwell & a missing link on the right side of midfield; maybe all 4 could be solved at the same time by playing Rothwell there?

Overall I think 7 out of 18 points is where I would have put us looking at the fixtures; another couple of points wouldn't have gone amiss, but it's no disaster or platform to say TM cannot achieve success with this squad. We're only 3 points off 6th; I think we can kick on after the break and should look towards getting a minimum of 10 points from the next 6 games, at which point I think it would be a fair time to assess how successful we might be this season.

TM obviously knows there's a talented player in there like we all do, but seeing him day to day considers there is some application missing which keeps him out of the first team picture. It is certainly reminiscent of the Rothwell situation in that he likes his wide players to work hard up & down the line and defend from the front protecting his full back, rather than just relying on his undoubted attacking attributes.

This will no doubt be seen by some as TM hanging a young player out to dry, but he was clearly asked the question and he's answered it forthrightly. I don't see a problem with this as clearly Harry knows the situation from their private chats, and you look through the teams that start most games there's no shortage of effort on show. 

That said, IMO putting Harry on the bench from time to time and giving him a few chances to show what he can do in the last 20 mins of games (preferably when a couple of goals to the good) could prove to be the kick start TM is looking for. Hopefully between now & Xmas he'll get that opportunity, see what he does with it & then take a view in Jan whether he stays & fights for a place or goes out on loan.

Maybe there's also a difference to be drawn between clubs who buy / stockpile players - youth or senior - then loan them out, to the clubs who bring players through their Academy then loan them out for experience.

Chelsea have been the worst example for stockpiling senior players, stopping other clubs from buying them but then they barely ever see first team action before leaving the club. They're very different to the likes of us, who tend to only use the loan market to blood youngsters we bring through from youth.

Also, imo they should ban clubs signing players then immediately loaning them back. To me it smacks of bigger clubs bullying smaller clubs.

I've not read all the comments yet and didn't make the match, which sounds like the not-so-pretty attritional fayre that Warnock teams usually bring to the table. Sounds like we allowed ourselves to be brought down to their level, which is a bit disappointing but not easy to avoid.

You need height against Warnock teams, so I would say the starting lineup was suitable for that to nullify them, but maybe the pace of Arma & Rothwell could've been brought on sooner to give their tiring back line something different to think about.

Still, that's now 3 clean sheets & 7 points from 5 games against tough opposition (we should include Charlton amongst them with the benefit of hindsight - look at the table; it's a mad league!). I think most of us would've taken that, W Brom next week therefore makes the difference between a solid start & a good start. 

I'm really pleased with the shutouts, less so with the goals scored. But I do think there's again some OTT hyperbole on here in that respect. For example, blocked shots are surely shots on target if they're on target when blocked aren't they? We've hit the woodwork what, 5 times this season? Someone said earlier (jhrover?) "bet your house on Rovers not scoring first half at home as we never do"; well I'd be homeless by now as we scored first half against Boro, 1 game ago. Now I get the frustration at lack of goals, pedestrian possession, and to some extent lack of goals from open play, but let's not allow opinion to distort the facts.

Good teams don't concede and build from the back. We've found a system that works defensively (which is great) and I don't feel we're THAT far from being a 2-goals-a-game side in an attacking sense. Hopefully with a bit more tweaking, better decision-making around the 18 yard box and perhaps earlier subs to swap height for pace / trickery or vice versa, then we'll achieve more as the season progresses.

I'm overall cautiously optimistic that we're going in the right direction. Yesterday was never going to be a classic, let's not pretend otherwise!

I guess staying in Div 1 would be great, given new management & the loss of last season's mainstays such as Buckley, Nuttall, Fisher etc.

Cheers.

Doyle's dismissal sounds petulant & unnecessary, hope he cuts that out.

Good to hear the 9 men left battled well though. 

A similar start to the season as last year, 1 point from 9. What were the sendings off for? Sounds like that was the difference between the sides on the night, rather frustratingly.

Can't make tomorrow as I'm in the Lakes for a long weekend, but I've ummed & ahhed over a few beers tonight about how to line up given Cunningham's unavailability.

The easiest way is to straight swap him for Bell (has to be Bell given Hart played for the U23s, and absolutely do not move Williams across), but we know Warnock will pelt Bell with high balls all afternoon if we do that, which I'd not be comfortable with.

We could play Downing there with Rothwell ahead of him, as Downing has played LB before I believe. But Warnock will do the same as above,  plus we'd lose Downing's positive effect up front. Rothwell may have a stormer, but it's a bit risky relying on Downing in an unfamiliar role.

Or we could go 3 at the back, bring Tosin in alongside Lenihan & Deldini, with Bennett / Nyambe / JRC and Downing / Bell as wing backs. But that's too many changes for me, just because 1 guy cant play, though it does bring more height into our back line.

It's certainly a dilemma, but I think overall I'd go with Bell in the 4231 formation. Least disruption, and if we can get at them from the off it will hopefully nullify any attempt they make to isolate Bell. 

Up front I'd go with Graham & Dack, supported by Downing & Gallagher (due to his height & tenacity), with Johnson & Travis obviously. A bit old school I know, but it works for us in tricky matches. I don't think this is a game to experiment in; stick to what the players know & use strength and height to good effect. There's enough trickery between Dack, Downing, Travis & Johnson to do some damage to Cardiff.

I'm saying it'll be 2-1 Rovers, Graham & Downing to score. It'll be a bit nervy, not pretty, but that doesn't matter. 

I remember a few on here waxing lyrical about Stoke's transfer business. There was 5 announced in 1 day and many thought 3/4 of them would be solid Championship signings. Plus the fact of signing 5 in a day was held up as the way to do business.

Meanwhile at that point I think we'd signed 2 freebies in Downing & Johnson. It's early days yet of course but I think I know where I'd rather be right now.

Just goes to show that this is an impossible league to predict.  On 1st August we would probably all have taken 6 points from 4 games plus a cup win with 2 or 3 solid performances and 2 clean sheets amongst it, so we're about where we would have expected to be. Let's just stay calm, not get too giddy over a win or throw toys out after a defeat.

We have a matchday squad that is at least as strong as last season when compared to our competitors, with added nouse and game management ability, more in-game options & whilst youth is being blooded. That should be enough to turn some of last season's draws into wins & defeats into draws, so if (I accept it's a reasonably sizable if) we can perform consistently at our expected level then we have a good chance to be in the mix come March / April.

Those at Hull, what are refreshment prices, variety & quality like? Good or not compared to Ewood?

I'm going for a Rovers win, it'll be tight but I think Saturday will have given the team a real shot in the arm. Hull have some good players who we'll have to watch (Bowen & Grosicki) but if we can nullify them then we can get at their back line.

They'll see this - rightly - as winnable, so if we stay tight and use the ball effectively and with pace we can hurt them on the counter. 

I'd start with Rothwell & Arma in place of Downing & Gallagher; I think the pace of those two will suit us away and I think Downing's guile & Gallagher's physicality / height will be better served versus Cardiff. Plus, Downing has already played nearly 2 full games in a week, having had a short pre season & not many games towards the end at Boro. 

I'd stick with DG & BD up front, with Gallagher & Brereton on the bench.  

I'd love to keep Travis & Johnson together but feel Evans may be preferred over Johnson for similar reasons to Gallagher, as his graft against Cardiff will be needed. Evans had a good game at Hull last season iirc, and being a former club he'll hopefully be a bit more up for it than he often is.

Back 5 picks itself with Tosin out & Bennett being captain. Unless he plays Bennett at CM alongside Travis & brings Nyambe in at right back...

But I doubt it!!

Hull 1 Rovers 2

On the one hand a new name, with new / fresh ideas, might have been beneficial, but on the other hand if something's not broken don't try and fix it. Johnson deserved a promotion, and continuity and stability are not to be sniffed at.

I'm also pleased that TM was involved in the decision; it shows a clear pathway to the first team and encourages ambition. Although I'd still like to know who else applied, clearly both Barr & Sheron have worked well within the Academy; they know the players and seem to have their respect. Tonight's performance (cheers for the link guys) suggests they can at least hold their own at this level once more this season despite the promotion of Johnson & Buckley to the regular first team set up & the departure of Nuttall.

Good luck all, good start tonight, onwards & upwards.

Must be classed as an exciting opportunity for an up & coming or established youth coach (internally or externally), given the facilities, funding & crop of U23 & Academy talent we have coming through.

Would love to lnow who applied & see the shortlist of who was interviewed. I bet there would be some interesting & surprising names on there.

54 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Me too, Gally worked his socks off.  Love that sliding tackle late on after he busted a gut to get back, that's the kind if heart we are going to need.

That challenge was right in front of me in the Riverside; the determination he showed to get back in and defend like that was fantastic, and it was rightly given a standing ovation by many. Was just typical of his overall performance I felt, deffo a MOTM contender.

Really pleased with yesterday, it was far from perfect but it was all about showing desire & passion and above all getting 3 points. They did, they deserved it, and a clean sheet to boot.

Everyone played their part.

Bar one almost costly flap I thought Walton did well.

Bar a couple of wayward passes, I thought Bennett had his best game a RB, defensively & offensively.

Lenihan  & Williams were excellent, let down only by their average distribution.

Cunningham was solid, knows his role as a LB, I felt far more confident with him in that area of the park. Likes a tackle too. A definite upgrade.

Downing was cultured, calm & composed, without being exciting. Stuck to what he knows and is good at, exactly what he was signed.

Travis & Johnson look a great pairing. They're both mobile, tough, strong, offensively minded whilst savvy (cynical, in a good way) defensively, & Johnson is  in the air.  Another huge plus over last season. They will pick up suspensions though.

Gallagher must be a Rovers fan, his effort & desire phenomenal, & offered Bennett great protection which I assume is why he stayed wide. He was a real handful for their RB throughout. His performance at Brentford on relegation day was excellent, and this was on a par but without the goal.

Graham & Dack linked up well without tearing it up, both worked hard and clearly each one benefits from the other being in the team. A good if unspectacular showing. Cool as you like penno from Graham.

I thought the subs didn't work as intended, Armstrong was not as effective as his pace was nullified by Boro not pushing up to high in search of a draw. Rothwell & Buckley were sound & showed good game management, Buckley should've worked the keeper after great play by Gallagher. 

Overall a confidence boosting win against a team that you'd expect we'd have to mix with if we're to push towards the playoffs. People sat they were poor, but they scored 3 goals in the first game and by all accounts should have beaten Brentford. They'll be there or thereabouts come the end of the season.

I don't get this obsession with scoring goals from open play. I think I said this last season, but who cares? Whilst they're obviously nice to purr over, they don't count more in terms of points. It's our use of the ball in open play that leads to the free kicks, corners, penalties & own goals; that'll do me!

Bring on Hull, a point or 3 there will do just grand. We have nothing to fear there.

He was totally inspirational to anyone. Rags to riches through honest hard work then giving something significant & tangible back to his hometown for the masses to enjoy.

RIP Mr Blackburn (Rovers).

Hope the club mark the anniversary of his passing appropriately at the game today.

I think Berg & Appleton might disagree Stuart.

It's daft sacking managers 3 games into a season, end of. Hudds caused their own problems on this one as Siewert should never have been appointed in the first place, or he should have been sacked in the summer.

Mercer needs to find a new bet now. 

Maybe he'll go for Rovers to beat Boro by 3 or more goals today?!  Whilst calling for Mowbray out of course!

?

Theres no point in TM mollycoddling young players and saying they're ready for the 1st team when, as Tuesday showed, many of them are not (at least consistently) despite their obvious talent & ability at U23 level.

A bit of tough love can help keep their feet on the ground , though I accept there can be a fine line.

He clearly rates them as prospects or he wouldn't be playing them after having watched many U23s games. I've not seen these  comments he's meant to have made deriding the academy, but the evidence in the squad (not only his brooding of many U23 players but also the fact of not signing another CB indicates a belief on their ability to step in as cover when required this season.

As for the new manager, I am very confident they will look to another young, progressive appointment in the Johnson mould in view of his success. I'm not sure how obvious or experienced he was as a candidate when he got the job, so whoever's comes in we'd be sensible not to judge a book by its cover. Theres clearly a good crop of players there and a good coaching staff to work with, so that should at least ensure that the quality of candidates is right up there.