I can't advocate Mowbray out now. Totally the wrong timing, though I do get the concern and share a lot of it.

The time to next judge him (as opposed to just discuss or debate his actions) is after 10 league games, when matters inside the club & in the division have settled down a little. There is no doubting that this week is massive for him in terms of signings in & out, loan or permanent, then he has a tough looking run of fixtures to negotiate. I think by then if we've been served up with more of the same & there's no sign of progression then at best he'll be on very thin ice with most fans (me included), if not the owners.

I still believe he will actively look to improve the team this week with at least 1 solid CB. Not bothered if permanent or on loan. He's more than hinted at such, some ITKers on here have posited it and we certainly need it!

TM deserves huge credit for what he's done to date, now he needs to push on or accept the consequences. He'll know that, having been in the game do long. And I really don't think he'll be immune from a sacking either if Venkys aren't happy with the season's developments.

I don't think it was an U23s game Stuart, just a Utd 11 v Rovers U23s. I suspect it was hastily arranged to give the Utd players more game time, or maybe it's something that they normally do versus Bolton but couldn't this season for obvious reasons & we stepped in last minute.

Pure speculation on my part mind, but it would make sense.

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ive backed Bristol City 2-1. 

Think Biesla will be gone by October

Hmm, maybe not Chaddy...!

I hear the U23s were beaten 4-0 by Man Ure today in a behind closed doors game. Not yet learned the Rovers line up but Utd's starting lineup was Romero, Dalot, Darmian, Smalling, Jones, Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez, Gomes, Daniel James, Fred, Greenwood. Pogba also got 30 mins.

Sounds like that was quite a test for our youngsters!

Just now, garnersfags said:

Everything we saw from Downing, especially when our tactical genius remembered he should be playing on the left, says he deserves to keep his place. If it's between Downing and Armstrong for one wide place, I'm afraid it would be Downing for me, at least for 3 or 4 games.

90% of the 15 min of constant, quality pressure, before the senseless double sub, came through Downing. His 1st time crosses were quality. 

He plays, certainly in next home game.

I agree to an extent, and think Downing will be valuable across the season. But if Rothwell & Downing are both to play then one of them has to go on the right, but that's where I think Arma would be more effective and less of a square peg in a round hole than either Downing or Rothwell.  I'd interchange Downing & Rothwell during this season, more often than not using Downing off the bench to either add composure  & noise when leading late in games or for a probing pass or pinpoint cross to unlock defences where Rothwell might have been nullified. 

It's going to be one of those unpredictable seasons. Cardiff losing at Wigan (despite Warnock), Fulham at Barnsley, Preston at Millwall (despite Bauer), Big Club winning at Brentford (despite Raya). 

We need to be consistently better in all depts of course (Johnson & Travis excused) and lessons must be learnt from yesterday. I'm confident that they will be, though some ought to have been learnt already, but there will be turnups every single week, I'm hopeful that this is just that.

Looking at the bigger picture, it's one defeat (albeit a painful one). Nothing was ever lost or won on day one, but we need a reaction.

Yesterday's results were a set of unpredictable ones, which I think shows this will be a season like few others. I think we'll often get better results against the better teams that attack us and leave gaps at the back and struggle to break down defensive set ups that hit us on the counter. However, that's only if we improve defensively.

I don't think we should go to Fulham cowed by yesterday. They lost too & there will be tension down there that we can take advantage of just as Charlton did to us yesterday. Same with the other tough fixtures coming up, but we need to play with more fluency & be tighter at the back. Nyambe in Bennett out, Tosin in Mulgrew out, DG or BB in Gally out, Rothwell in Downing out.

That was a hard watch yesterday and I totally get peoples' anger and frustration at TM's line up, tactics, and substitutions. I've been a staunch defender of his decisions and still believe his intentions are absolutely genuine and he has the ability to build a top 6 team here, but yesterday he got too much wrong and gave grist to the mill of those who want him gone. He needs a good week this week in terms of signing a decent, solid, experienced CB at the very, very least.

I would have started Rothwell not Downing (with Rothwell left & Arma right), Nyambe not Bennett, and BB (or DG) not Gally. 

I think criticising Walton is harsh. Even great keepers need their defence to not give cheap balls away, the midfield to track back, and CBs to win headers 12 yards out at set pieces.

I don't know why Bennett played, should've been Nyambe. He was deffo THE weak link, not a right back. He needs to play CM if at all, though there's no room for him there in our best starting 11. TM needs to see this now before it's too late. I like his passion & enthusiasm but that's not enough.

Mulgrew was far too hesitant again. I get why he started but he must be treated as backup now with a view to being moved on next window or summer. Again, respect what he's done but can't be part of taking us further, he's just not good enough.

Bell frustrates. There's a player there but he lacks confidence & self belief. It could due to those alongside of him. I would persevere as better CB protection could be his making. But I'd also like to see Hart given a go there, or Martin Olssen brought in.

Johnson was excellent & so much better than Evan's & Smallwood. Travis was good alongside of him too, they were our best point today & bodes well for the season.  Not sure why Travis got subbed, was there an injury? If not, that was amongst TM's strangest decisions.

Downing I liked, showed good composure & vision. Why was he on the right though?? Another strange one. And he ought not to have missed the ball with that 1st half chance.

Armstrong I thought did ok, albeit with no end product in the end. He actually looked our most potent threat. Again, subbing him when we did & putting Gallagher in his place was another strange one.

Gallagher also did ok imo, hussled & harried but didn't really have a clear cut chance to shoot. Faded badly after being moved right, certainly not his strongest position. Another one for TM to try to justify.

Dack was pretty much invisible for me bar the odd sprinkle of magic. Am getting a bit worried about him tbh, hope he finds his mojo soon. He needs to learn how to play without DG being there.

Lenihan - did ok especially in the context of the rest of the back 4, (not saying much I know) but his crossfield balls need work or to be cut out completely.

All the subs were strange for me. Timing of them was poor, we were well on top and I saw no reason at that point to make a double sub. If I were to make subs, initially I would've kept Arma on & taken Gally off for either DG or BB.  I would've then done a straight swap for Rothwell with Downing. If needed, I'd then have brought Dack off for whichever of DG or BB was still on the bench.

Buckley was absolutely the wrong choice, and ineffective. Rothwell too was ineffective when he came on. 

Tony has a BIG week ahead of him. 

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

We’re a weaker side this year than last, because of this reason (and Raya leaving), that’s why I think we’ll struggle. Our only potential saving graces are Rothwell getting more game time, and Brereton showing why we paid so much for him. Signings wise, it’s been a poor window, so far.

Time will tell, but I'd say this is pessimistic.

For me so far:

Incoming signings ok to potentially v good value for money. Travis' new deal arguably the best of the lot.

Outgoings: understandable, more needed. Kept Dack, Lenihan & Travis = big plus.

Add in young emerging talent plus signing(s) to be made (hopefully, and no big sales), things are looking up imo.

I agree with pretty much all that. I'd have Martin Olssen back in a flash, but not Marshall.

Really looking forward to today, back to my Second Home in the Riverside after what seems an age! I think this'll be either my 30th or my 31st consecutive season ticket holder (I'll check with my dad later!), so I'm hoping for a good, confident, imposing start on the road to top 6...

My team would be:

Walton,

Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Bell

Johnson, Travis

Armstrong, Dack, Rothwell,

Brereton 

Subs: Leutweiler, Downing, Tosin, DG, Gallagher, Buckley, Bennett.

I think DG will be used more sparingly this season, perhaps against stronger teams where his bulk & noise for holding the ball up and winning set pieces will be more valuable. Same with Downing.

Make the most of a confident BB I say, let's see what we paid all that money for. 

22 hours ago, Stuart said:

There only being a few days from signing until the first game is Mowbray’s fault, not mine, but it can be done.

Do we know it was "Mowbray's fault" that the deal took so long? Or is it just another of those assumptions that get played out as fact to beat him with?

It seems to me that Tosin was identified quite early in the window but that, for unknown (to us) reasons, the deal took far longer to complete than was anticipated. Wasn't it said on here by an ITKer (Bbrovers?) that Mowbray was tearing his hair out at the length of time this deal was taking? That suggests to me a delay on the player / City / agent's side rather than ours.

If it was TM or the club driving a harder bargain out of City, I don't mind that one bit as I'd rather the club was not fleeced.

The other alternative is that it was a Venkys-inspired delay, which could never be ruled out even for a relatively modest loan deal... but hardly "Mowbray's fault".

Last minute deals is just a symptom of having a time-limited window; it's the same with any negotiation process. Far bigger deals (good and bad) will be done by other clubs far later in the day than this. Hell, Swansea sold McBurnie yesterday for £20m; imagine that was us selling Dack, Lenihan or Travis, that would keep the mods busy! 

"What's that coming over the hill, is it an Abdul-Nasir Oluwatosin Oluwadoyinsolami Adarabioyo, is it an Abdul-Nasir Oluwatosin Oluwadoyinsolami Adarabioyo?"

It's fine to criticise Mulgrew for the errors he made, but phrases such as "If Mulgrew starts, we lose. End of." are disrespectful, as are other comments made about him in this thread.

I happen to agree that his best days are behind him and he ought not to play just because he's club captain. But I'm comfortable with him starting on Saturday as TA has just landed, we've no other fit senior specialist CB available and this ought to be one of our easier games this season (at least defensively). 

Within 2 or 3 games, I'm confident that TA and / a new CB will be starting, unless Mulgrew pulls up trees; if he does, then he deserves to carry on.

Re Nuttall, good luck to him. I'd have preferred a loan as he could tear it up for Blackpool given proper game time because he knows where the net is, but if we got a good fee (as it seems we did) and there's either a good sell on or buy back clause, then I think it makes sense all round.

If an attacking player pushes someone in a wall or leans them out of the way, it should be a foul like it would be if it happened anywhere else on the pitch. That's what happens when attacking players line up in a wall, but all it does is slow the game down & encourages argy bargy in the wall. 

I'm quite happy with this change. Putting an attacking player in the wall is a relatively recent tactic as well I think, this is just a change to facilitate reverting back to what was probably the original intention when the 10 yard rule was brought in in the first place.

Just now, RovingRover said:

The hold up on the Tosin deal was over Manchester City demanding a minimum number of games played and Mowbray unwilling to promise he would be in the 1st team from the off.

I believe Rovers have compromised by allowing City the chance to recall him in January if they are not satisfied with his game time and development.

If that's true then I for one am glad that it's rumbled on and that we've not allowed ourselves to be bullied into giving City guarantees about the number of games played, which to my mind they have no right to expect. 

Yes one can argue that they're doing us a favour by loaning us one of their starlets, and I understand that they want to expose him to as many challenges as possible, but to actually want it written into the arrangement that he plays X number of games is out of order IMO.

Good for TM I say. He should decide who plays for us and when, not Pep. 

Well if the aim of friendlies is to build confidence by beating teams and build fitness by giving all players good game time, then it would appear to have been successful, albeit against inferior opposition (perhaps Rangers aside). 

If it is to put into practise a change in our style of play, then again it would appear to have been successful from what I've read from those who've attended.  We seem to be quite fluid & less reliant on a long ball up to DG to hold up/knock down.

If it's to finalise a first 11 to start the season with, then almost undoubtedly it's been less successful.  I'm not at all confident about the defence (as it stands) which I think we all agree seems no stronger than last season personnel wise, despite what TM said which is disappointing. That said, it's possible that with better midfield protection & ball retention we could become more game savvy & thus avoid 3 or 4 away drubbings (which in my view distorted our record massively last season) as well as avoid conceding late goals. TM though will lose (has lost?) face with many (me included) by not getting in at least one specialised & experienced CB.  I still think he will, but that's perhaps more blind hope than tangible confidence.

Going forward, I think we're well stocked with exciting options, so credit where it's due there. There's pace, power & trickery with any number of combinations in midfield & up front, and I think we'll give opponents much to think about in that sense.  BB especially should get huge confidence from his pre-season goal return, what an asset he could be.

I expect outgoings will be Smallwood, Nuttall, JRC & Grayson (probably all on loan), MacGloire too if 1 or 2 new CBs arrive. Buckley & Butterworth to stick around at least until January, see if they can have an impact as starters in league cup games and in Championship games off the bench. Johnson's promotion could have a huge impact there.

I'm giving the window 6 out of 10 so far. 2 more signings could make it 8 or 9; please Tony, Steve, Venkys, give us that chance to really push for it this season, it could be very exciting.

Just now, CD_93 said:

Brereton 2-0

This is looking v promising.

Looking at Rangers' forum, they thought Jayson was excellent and one even asked when they were signing him. I can't marry that up with much of what I've read on here about his performance today? Not that it matters much I guess, as he almost certainly won't play against Charlton.

Most of the Rangers posters said their starting 11 was v strong, perhaps only a couple of players short of their 1st 11, leading to more of them predicting a 3 or 4 goal drubbing (though tbf some also thought we'd be their strongest test to date, and so it proved).  On that score we did well, esp as they've already had several competitive matches, albeit against much inferior opposition.

I'm pretty sure a new GK, Travis, Rothwell & possibly Gallagher will all start versus Charlton. Possibly also a new CB. I think that 1st half team is a long way from TM's preferred first 11 but he clearly needed to give players game time as that, and experimenting with tactics, is what friendlies are for, esp when there's 2 more matches to go (probably more inc some behind closed doors). 

It gets the thumbs up for me I think. It's good to try something different and a little bit "out there". And it certainly looks better on the players than on a hanger.

That said, i would've preferred red & black halves...

48 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

All extremely desperate stuff.

Not really. Granted Adam phoned us to request training facilities, but isn't that the sign of a model pro looking to keep himself in good shape? Sounds like he has desire to me, going off that. Furthermore he only played to make up numbers after Lyons pulled up injured. Can't blame him for saying yes when asked, nor TM for asking him when short on numbers due to injury.

Downing is not a desperate signing either IMO. A good, experienced old head for our many younger players to look up to. Provided future signings balance out the youth v experience ratio, it's every chance of being a good move.

Changing subject a little, it's been mentioned that we should've been all over Pontus Jansson as being the tough no nonsense CB we all crave; but didn't we have him & his mates on toast when we played Leeds at Ewood last season? I didn't see much there that warrants 5.5m, though admittedly that's only 1 game.

19 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

After the sale of Raya and the acquisition of the likes of Downing Adam and Butterfield, Hart' would be one final kick in the knackers for the fans.

Got to love the way how, to support your anti-Mowbray sentiment, you don't include mention the actual signing of Bradley Johnson (which is widely thought to be fairly astute), yet do include mention of 2 players we haven't actually signed and may never do, nor anyone like them!

FWIW I could accept Adam's signing IF he proves to TM that he still has the ability & desire, and the price is right in terms of his wages. Of course we'll probably never know the latter, and many won't trust TM's judgment on the former 2 until he proves it in their own eyes.

Just now, Colt Seavers said:

 

Sounds nasty!

Both Mr Westfall and Dr Noisewater would be upset right now if they were mine!!

And the club's sake of course, which is totally far more important.

I'm definitely caught between 2 stools on this one  Brave move by TM, hope for his sake he has a quality replacement in the bag or it could come to define him.