Just now, Stuart said:

You’re not here? Oh.

Sadly not, it's bath night for my daughters tonight and as I'm playing footy tomorrow night I couldn't get 2 passes in succession!

I'll be there on Sat tho.

Give 'em cheers from me, and enjoy those dregs! 

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I don’t have any problem with Smallwood playing it’s just what the f is the point in paying those two holding mids against league 2 opposition? Why can’t we play Buckley there (if can’t be trusted to play cm vs Oldham at home then Mowbray will never trust him there) the team looks quite slow now and what happenes to becoming a passing team? 

Buckley in centre mid and play JRC as one of the attacking 3. 

Glad I waited to see the team before buying a ticket

 

Just now, pick32 said:

Think playing Evans and Smallwood is a good move, whilst not the most exciting pair will offer the two young CBs cover,

excited to see how Buckley does and hope Chapman gets some minutes.

Fans eh?! ?

Just now, skous18 said:

Wish Butterworth was given some kind of a chance today. This Buckley kid doesn’t really fill me up with confidence - I obviously want him to be a world beater but I guess we will see

Butterworth is injured I think.

Just now, Stuart said:

Once again, neither one thing nor the other.

Evans and (is he not on loan yet) Smallwood in their depressingly familiar role.

Opting not to keep his current first choice centre backs in the team? Cotton wool or giving Platt and Grayson their chance.

Fisher should have been in behind Platt and Grayson.

Other than that a team devoid of any spark or even drive. Long balls up to Graham and no crosses.

Let’s hope Oldham aren’t up to much. Should be a nothing game but having started the season badly, Mowbray needs to not lose this one as well.

I take it you're halfway through your pre match pint Stuart and bemoaning the fact that half of it has gone, rather than looking forward to the other half that's left?! ? 

A blend of youth and experience is what most managers look for in their team isn't it?

Buckley can offer drive and spark can't he, and Downing the crosses?

Shame I can't be there tonight but I'll be keeping a keen eye on things from deepest darkest Cheshire!

COYB!!

TM certainly trusts his squad (as he should), as he'll be sure to want to avoid a bad result & is leaving himself open to huge criticism if his wholesale changes backfires.

Quite brave really.

Just now, 47er said:

You are making excuses. Of course every season is different, you can't simply start every season with a clean slate. Every manager has history but I see this manager repeating his history and making the same mistakes. You say "give him a dozen games". Venkys surely will but will you come up with new excuses at the end of it?

 

Nope, I won't. I'd say by then that we need to have around 5 wins and a couple of draws and to see good performances in order to be able to say he's on track & think positively about his performances & choices. 17 points from 12 games is near play-off challenging, so only slight improvements would be needed going forward from there to make us realistic top six material, be that through coaching or good use of the Jan window (learning from last season). 

If he's not in that ballpark, then he'll have little defence.

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Championship form is absolutely awful. Same back 4.

Same mistakes. 

@Stuart is spot on.

I'm afraid I disagree for reasons stated above. And although his back 4 against Charlton wasn't strong, the Boro game will likely see 3 different players to those, 2 of them through choice (Tosin & Cunningham).

I would like to see Nyambe too rather than Bennett, which I do agree is a mistake on TM's part & something that may come back to haunt him.

37 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It’s all very noble but if clubs followed your advice no manager would ever be sacked.

Sorry Stuart how do you draw that conclusion from what I said? I've not said don't judge him or that he can't be sacked, I've just said don't do it 2 games into the new season.

His L1 performance is there on record as being one of the best ever achieved in that division. But it is not something that is relevant to judging progress made this season compared to last.

And his Championship record here overall is not abysmal, especially in the context of working at this club from the state it was in when he arrived.  I'm sorry that's just hyperbole and wrong.  I don't just have the stats right now but in his 3 months or so pre-relegation i think our points per game haul improved to near play-off requirements if stretched across a full season, and last season we finished with a comfortable 60 points. Of course we could say we wanted more, or that we should have got more with better game management (hence the more game-savvy experienced players brought in this summer), but in neither case can it be described as abysmal.

Like I said, he is trying to change things, and deserves the chance to see the fruits of his efforts sink or swim. Certainly longer than 2 games this season.

Edit: beaten to it by Pail Mani!

Just now, 47er said:

17 points from 19 games.....

But this season is a different one to last season, so they cannot be fairly compared.

There are 6 different 'unknown' opponents (2 of which we've already played), 6 new first 11 players to integrate, a more possession based game being attempted (which most on here agreed was necessary to progress), & some fairly significant new rules to adapt to.

I'm not making excuses, just stating the facts. I'm also not saying forget the bad run, but neither should we forget the very good runs that came before & afterwards. We should learn from them. But I am saying that if anyone (not just TM) is to be judged fairly then it needs to be on a level playing field. Conflating last season with this season is not comparing like for like.

He is trying to change things on & off the pitch from the disorganised shambles this club was when he arrived. He's trying to advance the club on & off the field in a climate of unpredictable ownership & restless natives as a consequence. It's no easy task, hence he deserves the chance of a dozen games to see his ideas & transfer activity put into action.

IMO.

I agree Alejandro! I would put a strong team out at first off though TM has already said that this is a chance for previous non-starter to make an impression.

That said, on paper we should certainly have enough for a comfortable victory across out squad, but we know it often never turns out that way!

Everyone in football looks at fixtures and attempts to predict which will be the tough games & which will be easier, that's happened for as long as the game has existed. Of course that's only an exercise on paper and any given game can veer from the expected narrative at any time for a litany of reasons. 

However those reasons tend to even themselves out over an extended period of time, hence why I think 12 games (consisting of a mixture of perceived 'hard', 'winnable' & 'easy' games) is a decent timescale which allows for the quirks & anomalies of one or more individual games to be less noticeable when viewed in the wider context. 

Hence why I think making a judgment call on Mowbray 2 games into this season is unfair. 

32 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Umm ok?

Hope the u-23s get a decent manager sorted soon. Probably not the cause of this defeat but can't hurt.

It was v much tongue in cheek bluebruce. I am very much a glass-half-full bloke so far as TM is concerned, for now at least...

FWIW, I get the consternation on here but Mowbray out? Now? Be careful what you wish for.

We all knew when the fixtures were released that it was a very tough 6 games to start to the season, Charlton apart.  That's why I'd say he should be given a dozen league games (i.e. twice as many) to show his worth for this coming season.  Clearly if he's obviously lost the squad and / or every match after say 8 or 9 games then of course I'd understand him bring potted.

I don't think that's an arbitrary target, but gives sufficient time for the squad and league to settle down for everyone inside the club (i.e. Venkys) and outside the club (i.e. us) to assess progress (or lack thereof) and whether or not TM's plans are worth persevering with. If not, there's still enough time for an alternative solution to be found and time enough for that lucky so and so to assess the squad and decide what's needed in the January window.

Just now, bluebruce said:

Ack so didn't end too well in the U-23 game. 3-1 to Arsenal. Hat trick from Folarin Balogun.

All penalties.

Mowbray out! 

Just now, RV Blue said:

Sounds good, if you ignore the fact that he doesn’t have any benefits over Raya.

Far too early to make such a finite judgment call on him IMO RV. He had our worst possible defence ahead of him v Charlton yet made 2 good saves after bad defensive errors, and yesterday he was beaten by a worldie albeit he COULD have saved the second (though all shots COULD be saved theoretically).

I thought he looked ok against Charlton, enough on here have said he wasn't to blame yesterday that says he at least deserves the benefit of any doubt this far.

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

Think it’s a big game next week, simply cannot lose or mowbray might start getting some serious heat. Personally I think his time is up already but for the lovers it might be time 

Agree with this. 3 league defeats to start the season with would be really tough to pull back in terms of making the top 6. That said, it's a marathon not a sprint and based on most reports yesterday there's reasons to be positive.

Jury still out on Walton, hopefully once he beds in & becomes used to playing with those ahead of him we will see his benefits over Raya.

Am pleased to hear Tosin & Del looked solid. It looks like any combination between Tosin, Del & Lenihan could be decent at Champ level, esp with decent fullback protection which I think Nyambe & Cunningham will provide. I'm not so anti-Bennett as others, but he's not a RB. Think we'll see JRC as the season progresses too from the sounds of things.

Hypothetical question for those there yesterday; if that back 5 had played against Charlton, would we have lost that game? My suspicion is not, but I'd be interested to hear your views.

As for mids, mixed reviews it seems. Am disappointed to hear Johnson was off the pace, but then if that was due to him & Trav losing steam due to being against a 3 then that's a tactical issue for me rather than anything against those 2 specifically.

I'm most worried about us going forward, which I'm not sure many of us had much concern about 10 days ago. We seem to lack a cutting edge / end product to our approach play. Without stating the obvious, we need to find a couple of good front 4 combinations out of Dack, Armstrong, Rothwell, DG, Gallagher, Downing, Chapman & BB. I think Oldham is a good chance to experiment there, I would certainly give BB 60+ mins as a striker & Chapman on the wing.

I don't think there's reason to panic yet, but there's work to do at both ends of the pitch. Get a decent freebie CB and find a cutting edge, and I can see us shooting up the table (especially once August is behind us).

We started 4 out of 5 new signings on Saturday anyway, so that's another myth debunked.

Just now, Ossydave said:

Yeah you're spot on there

Meanwhile 16 year olds have played in the champions league ?‍♂️

Exceptional world class ones have, yes. Incidentally so too has Tosin, who is the only CB Mowbray signed this window so he clearly expects big things from him despite his youth.

But that doesn't fit the narrative...

Just now, Blueandwhitemike said:

I've got no idea what happened but Mulgrew was really poor last week, that misdirected header under no pressure in the first half that led to the Taylor chance was shocking.  The other players must see that, I doubt Lenihan appreciated it so even if he was your best mate it'd be hard to defend him unless TM was really nasty which is hard to imagine.

Lenihan certainly didn't appreciate it, he gave Mulgrew a proper dirty look once Walton had made the save.

I think the way he speaks about young players is more just his way of talking and / or a sign of him being from a certain generation, rather than anything malicious or anti-youth. I think picking on his terminology in this context is just another example of certain people having decided TM is no good for us & using it as another stick to beat him with.

We had one of the youngest teams / squads in the league last season, and that's even when you consider that Mulgrew, Graham, Conway, & Bennett were all well over 30 & got plenty of appearances. In his time he's given Championship debuts to Raya, Rothwell, Butterworth, Travis, Magloire, Davenport, & Buckley, and has since brought their U23 manager into the first team set up which must be to assist their further integration into the first team squad. 

I agree that his use of Nyambe & Rothwell was a bit disappointing / surprising and certainly don't think he should be immune from criticism in some respects, but such criticism should be balanced. Overall I think the criticism he gets for his treatment of young players is overhyped & over analysed by some on here.

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/burnley-blackburn-football-fans-ejected-16728127

Cheers. I should've guessed! ?

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/august/btp-club-statement/

I don't get to away games but I guess this will have resonance for many of you. It's good that the club are taking a stance on this, but sad that what is (hopefully) a mindless minority are raising the profile of the club in a very unacceptable way.

Keep out of trouble fellas, there are some d*ckheads out there.

8 hours ago, OJRovers said:

Top of my list was a new left back, so I’m happy that we’ve got Cunningham.

Really wanted a combative all round midfielder, so happy with Johnson.

Downing decent squad player.

Keeper will be alright, but he’s not ours.

Big worry is centre back. Tosin has played about 10 games there at this level and Williams brings on pressure with his woeful distribution.

Gallagher money should’ve been used for a bit ugly centre back who puts his head on everything (eg Hanley).

Overall 3/10 this window.

 

So 4 out of 6 signings you're alright with or better, including your no 1 priority, yet you only score the window 3/10? That doesn't make sense.

Defensively our options are:

GK 

Walton, Leutweiler. Potential to be better than last season, but time will tell re Walton.

RB

Nyambe, Bennett, JRC, Travis. I hope in that order, at least this season. IF Nyambe fulfils his potential & is regularly picked, I think that reasonable.

LB

Cunningham, Bell, Downing, Williams, Hart. Plenty of cover there, definitely upgraded.

CB

Lenihan, Tosin, Williams, Nyambe, Grayson, *Magloire, *Wharton. I agree 1 CB short, and reliant on Tosin being good (I'm hopeful given his pedigree). Hopefully this is marginally better than the end of last season. Could be improved further with freebie (eg Lynch).

I think a foursome of Nyambe, Lenihan, Tosin or Wiiliams, Cunningham is far better than what started v Charlton. Or a quintet of Nyambe or Bennett, Lenihan, Tosin, Williams, & Cunningham / Bell / Downing would also be decent for this level. 

I'm not sure either of those lineups will figure on Saturday because good defences work as units. Cunningham has just arrived, so I for one would understand if he does not play on Saturday. 

I don't know why some don't accept that that would be legitimate. It can't be because TM doesn't start new signings because 4 out of 5 started on Saturday. So it must be because he wants his defenders to have an understanding of each other's game & to work as a unit. 

As for the window overall, I'd give it 6 out of 10 just now, which could fall to 4 or rise to 8 as the season progresses. I was hoping to be able to say 7 or 8 at this time, so that's disappointing but I see plenty enough not to call it a shambles / catastrophe / shambolic. I like Johnson, Downing & Gallagher & I'm not bothered that Walton, Tosin & Cunningham are loans. It's the modern way  and it gives our many younger prospects the dangling carrot of a route into the first team in 12 months time, which they wouldn't have if those signings were permanent.

We can't have it all ways. We either buy perms (which risks cutting off youngsters' routes into the squad), or we sign loans & keep the youngsters interested. People want signings but the same people complain if he doesn't play youngsters, but there's only 11 players can play at any one time.

Maybe I'm being too generous to TM. He makes mistakes but I like to be optimistic. I'm not going to say top 6, but I think top 10 is realistic and with a good run that could be improved. With our options & cover, I think it unlikely we'll be struggling against relegation. 

20 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

Lutwiler

Nyambe Magloire Grayson JRC

Buckley Smallwood Evans Chapman

Vale

Brereton

 

Cheers Skip. Any idea if we gave them a closer game than the scoreline might suggest, standout performers or injuries? Any sign of Samuel or Williams?

Sorry for the bombardment!