I find it hard to understand how anyone can interpret as anything other than if supporters want a JW Upper ST they are available to buy: "there will be tickets for people up there who want to buy on a season ticket basis." But then why am I surprised? We've had a summer of the club being criticised for not selling STs when the club needs the cash flow. Now the club has looked at Social Distancing with an eye to managing costs by opening a limited number of stands. I can only presume the fans asking for ST sales to ease cash flow will be unhappy the club is attempting to control costs. Change has to be accepted to defeat this virus. @Parsonblue it would be a real blow to see a long-term supporter such as yourself leave. Can I urge you to read the LT link again. On the basis of this article I would expect to buy a JW Upper ST. I'm considering moving there from the JWL as I feel Social Distancing will possibly be better observed in this area. I don't know who or how this rumour began but it's not based on any known facts.

Ah. Thanks.

Well I very rarely read the LT. I clicked the link and read the article without any restrictions. It has free access.

Well I'm happy with all of this. I would like to have seen it earlier but to my mind it's based in reality and not the fantasy world some clubs live in. For me the thing which is missing is the opportunity to buy an iFollow pass for all away games. £10 a shot is expensive but we will be buying access for Saturday.

It doesn't have restricted access.

I feel the first half of your argument sums up the situation very well. I'm an extremely fit 66 year old, my son is a vulnerable young person who lives in a household with three other vulnerable people looked after by carers. To date to the huge credit of the carers the house has remained Covid-19 free. The organisation which provides my son's care will need to complete a Risk Assessment before he will be able to attend matches regardless of my views on safety. My wife is vulnerable. I want/need the club to announce the protocols which will be put in place. Without this information the necessary Risk Assessment cannot begin. Based on previous RAs the organisation has carried out provided government guidelines are adhered to the RA will be successful. Providing the information allows me to make an informed decision on whether or not it is worth taking the risk on purchase. I will take this risk if the protocols the club put in place appear acceptable and likely to pass the RA. I would make the purchase the day STs go on sale. The Stoke offer seems praiseworthy though I struggled a bit with the red/white lists idea. I read the review of PL club policies which in the main I find disgraceful and unfair. These boil down to those who pay the most get in. The rest go in to a ballot. Both situations are utterly unfair. A ballot is unacceptable unless it is pre-season and "winners" are allowed a maximum of, for example, one-third of all games - assuming the club is allowed to use one-third of capacity. Away fans have to be forbidden to maximise capacity for home supporters and eliminate the inherent risk of fans sharing transport. To my mind the single biggest issue will be enforcing protocols within a crowd. Who/how will those ignoring protocols be dealt with? It's extremely unlikely stewards would successfully control anyone who failed to follow guidance. Imagine the chaos of attempting to eject fans breaking the protocols. What is clear to me is there is absolutely no possibility of fans returning in numbers in mid-October. Four weeks away and there is nothing in place. It will not happen. Do we really want to go in to a crowd of 10000 when no planning of any sort has yet been announced by the authorities? There have been enough failures in policy, we don't need another especially one which is so easily avoided by simply not permitting crowds. In May I spoke to someone in the football "industry" about this subject. The reply was it will be at least 9 months meaning we are looking at March 2021. I still believe this true. The coming winter is of huge concern. The government is not going to allow meetings of 10-20000 individuals until we have passed this potential second wave. The one thing I do want to see ASAP is iFollow details so I can purchase this for my lad. I won't be watching unless I can find away to get it on my TV as my laptop screen is too small.

I'm sorry you don't understand the difference. It is quite simply wrong to sell something which you cannot guarantee to supply. A donation is something completely different. If I buy something I expect to receive it, if I choose to donate on the understanding I MIGHT get an ST that's another proposition. By all means state the terms and conditions. I've no problem with that but what we have here is fans criticising the club for not selling STs when it is abundantly clear the club have no idea what they can or cannot offer. There is no business logic to incurring all the costs of selling STs when there is a strong possibility they will have to be refunded incurring yet more cost. It's only a few weeks ago fans criticised the club for not offering refunds now fans want the club to sell tickets to yet more games which they may not watch live. It makes no sense.

Are you really asking this question? Why is it immoral to sell something you may not be able to supply? Does this really need an answer? I offered a solution weeks ago. Supporters who want to support their club financially should be able to do so. Clubs should accept donations for the value of a season ticket from individual fans. Those fans would be entitled to claim a free ST if or when they go on sale. What is unacceptable is the notion of selling a ticket for a match which might not take place live to spectators.

I agree with the first paragraph. I would sign up for that. Is it happening anywhere else? All I read is Rovers fans kicking the club because we haven't sold twice the capacity. It's not a rational discussion just an excuse to berate the management. Thinking about the second point I wouldn't be concerned over losing £1/month. I'll hand over £10 today if it puts me in the queue but I'm not shelling out £400 on the promise of jam tomorrow. Will we have capacity issues? I feel it's impossible for any fan to gauge. Capacity will be determined by so many factors it really is impossible to guess at but I do feel most will get a seat IF we are allowed back in. I doubt this will be before March.

I feel there is a strong possibility the club will go under. There is a very real possibility the owners will have to fund everything with very little income to help with this. We all want to go back. I will buy two STs as soon as it is clear what I'm buying. The reality though is very few, if any of us, will be back in the ground before March. Will the owners support this situation? I think the chances are at best 50/50 - if anything Covid-19 is the smokescreen which allows them to get out. I agree my relationship with the club is totally different to that with any other business but the owners changed all that. If they want my money I need guarantees. You argue supporters should buy STs to protect workers jobs. Where else do you advocate I do this? I'm afraid you're dodging the question.

@roversfan99I fully understand your points especially those relating to fans wanting to support their club financially. I USED to do this myself when the club needed or deserved my money. Today we have owners who have thrown £120-150m down the drain in ten years. There is absolutely no way I'm giving those owners my money without a guarantee of what the situation will be. I have a question for you. You seem to have no moral objection to Rovers selling STs for games which fans may not be able to attend. Potentially the club could go under with fans having no recourse to a refund. ST holders would be way down any creditors list. Please can you tell me what other things you are prepared to buy for say £400 with no guarantee you will receive what you have purchased and no option for a refund? I would also like to ask what other businesses you are prepared to give your money to in order to save jobs with no guarantee you'll receive any product?

A question I asked weeks ago with absolutely no reaction. A clear demonstration of why Rovers are right not to be selling STs until the situation is clear. There is no way it is morally responsible to sell tickets for a match or matches a fan may not be able to attend. Anyone who thinks differently is living in another reality. As an aside anyone attending a yoga or pilates class will find there has to be two metres distancing between each individual. Translated to a football stadium regardless of its' capacity that would represent a huge drop in capacity. A seat is approximately 45cm wide. If everyone has to have a one metre spacing that means removing 2 out of every 3 seats in a row and the row in front or behind.......and Rovers should be trying to sell? Ha!

You're correct Oxford say they may have a vaccine by Christmas. They won't have the millions of doses required. The majority of scientific opinion is 12-18 months is the very earliest we can expect a vaccine so if we take 15 months as an average that would put us in March. There has never been a successful Coronavirus vaccine (there is more than one Coronavirus), most vaccines take years if not decades of development and to achieve one in 12-18 months is said by some scientists to be possibly one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time. I'm all for optimism chaddy but not for blind optimism based on what Oxford or others hope will happen. Vaccine deals? Last night the BBC reported we have 340m doses on order from six different sources. This means nothing until there is something which can actually be delivered. The harsh reality is we are unlikely to have an effective vaccine control of Covid-19 for many years. If we had a vaccine today the problems are far from over. What would make a difference is if everyone took the situation seriously, acted accordingly and accepted their responsibility to society. I only have to look around me daily to see we are so far away from this that we have no chance of overcoming the virus in the short-term. Many have never understood their responsibility to society and it isn't going to suddenly happen. It seems millions are prepared to simply take the risk. In one way I agree with them as I feel all any of us can do is accept and manage our personal risk. A vaccine isn't going to suddenly make football safe.

I'm prepared to go back without a vaccine. If we have to wait this long the game as a live spectator sport will be dead. Whatever may happen elsewhere the UK is years away from a vaccine and after finding a safe, effective one only 50% of the population appear willing to be vaccinated.

I'm not having a dig at you chaddy, merely amazed government considers this a test of any sort. The Crucible capacity is 980 and is a well controlled environment. This is an entirely different environment to a football stadium and in this respect is more akin to testing a return to theatres. One has to hope no one in government is stupid enough to extrapolate the results of this test of a low attendance, indoor sporting event to a football crowd. What is needed is a plan to get 10-15000 spectators in to a football ground and monitor the outcome. More easily just look at a few pubs......... It's still looking like 2021 before we are able to watch live football. It's five weeks to the season start and as far as I'm aware we don't even have news on what fans can watch of BCD games. Not a word about live attendance other than the 17-30% limit reported on capacity. The PL and EFL really should be opening up discussion on this subject.

Quite right, I fully agree but this ignores that these clubs have continued to sell STs after they became aware of the situation. Everton's "claim your seat" deadline was July 28th. It is absolutely clear Everton, and I guess many, many others, have continued to sell STs when they have absolutely no idea on what government guidelines will be, if or when crowds will return etc. Middlesbrough showed the way, clubs such as Everton have ignored reality and the consequences in a desperate scramble for cash. How anyone can defend or justify such action after the Covid-19 issues arose is beyond me. Sales before, that's life, sales afterwards are irresponsible and demonstrate a total disregard for the supporter.

@chaddyroversit's not often I agree with your view but on this I think you are quite correct. I think we can accept anyone who wants an ST at Ewood will get one. We won't sell out the probable one-third of capacity. If Rovers sell me an ST I expect it to be either for all games or to be refunded, not credited, deferred etc. for those which are BCD. I've read Middlesbrough have taken STs off sale until it's fully understood what the ground capacity and general attendance circumstances will be. This is action for which the club should be praised. It demonstrates sound management and consideration of the consequences of selling STs before knowing how live attendance will work. The call is for Rovers to sell STs to ease cashflow issues. I cannot for the life of me see how this makes any sense. At some point it may be necessary to refund some or all of the money raised. So where does the cash come from to make these refunds? Selling STs now does nothing other than postpone the inevitable need for further cash injection by the owners or closure. It would be more honest if Rovers, or any other club, was upfront. They cannot guarantee if or when live attendance will be possible. The ST money will immediately go towards the daily club running costs and we cannot indicate if or when it would be refunded. If the club fails financially you may not get your money back. If football clubs need to ease to cashflow issues it should be nothing more than requesting donations on the understanding donors would receive a free ST if or when attendance is possible. Selling as STs is simply dishonest. I'd like to see a sensible justification as to why a club would undertake all the costs of selling STs, spend the cash, possibly face further costs in refunds and the issue of raising the cash to make said refunds. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know the truth behind our STs not being on sale. I hope it's because the club is taking what I regard as the only acceptable approach. In my view those calling for STs to be sold for cashflow purposes with no guarantee of anything are simply using the situation to find another stick to beat the management with. Selling STs now cannot be justified in anyway and is exploitative. From what I have observed social distancing etc. is declining rapidly and clearly being ignored by some. Until everyone grasps the need to follow the guidelines correctly the potential for curtailing Covid-19 is very limited. Enforcing social distancing etc. in a football ground is impossible without full supporter cooperation. A football crowd is one example of a situation where spread could be significant. It would only need one proven instance of an infection spike from a match to put all games back to BCD.

I'm presuming the 30,000 figure is correct but don't know. If correct it sums up the huge dilema for clubs, highlights the risks they run and raises questions over the overriding attitude towards supporters. There is a clause in the Everton FAQs: "What if the 2020/21 season is played behind closed doors? If games in the 2020/21 season are affected in any way, the Club will refund supporters the pro-rata value of any missed games." There is widespread reporting stadium capacity will be limited to 17 to 30% depending on individual club circumstances. On the face of it either two-thirds of Everton ST holders will not get to see any games or all supporters will only see one-third of games. I cannot think of a better way to totally piss off the fan base in one swoop. The clause I quoted only covers BCD, it doesn't mention games which are played in front of a limited capacity. Everton have created a massive problem for themselves as has every club which has already sold more than 30% of its capacity.

Which I really do not understand when there is no knowing when or if we will be allowed to return to the ground or which games an individual fan may get to see. There is the huge question of capacity. OK at Rovers if we don't sell tickets to away fans achieving, for example, one third capacity is simple but at clubs with larger gates or a potential large demand? Lets imagine clubs are restricted to one third capacity. A friend was telling me yesterday his team, Everton, have 35000 ST holders and a capacity of 39000. On the basis of one third capacity only 13000 will be allowed in for a match. It must be desperate to be a Leeds or WBA fan today! If I was a Baggie I might well have bought one already but at a club where nothing has changed and crowds are small? No real reason to buy yet I feel the fairest approach to the capacity issue is a ballot. In some manner all ST holders would be entered in to a club run draw for every game and each fan gets one in three random matches. The ballot would take place before the season start. Electronic or paper ticketing would be needed to control ground entry and those who try to cheat the system would have to be turned away to get the message out to all. A massive issue for clubs to solve.

I'm in full agreement with you. I can't for the life of me understand why any fan at any club would buy a season ticket now. There are simply too many questions which remain to be answered. Decades ago when I sat in Nuttall Street I would buy an ST the week they went on sale. Why? I wanted to support the club financially. I knew how important my money was to Rovers. The harsh reality is my money is probably equally important today as it was then. That though is a whole different discussion. Would I buy an ST now? No, absolutely not. Does this mean I don't want to support the club financially at a time when I'm sure the need is very significant? No, it doesn't. There is though one huge difference today from the 70s/80s - back then I knew I would be getting to watch football. Today football clubs are selling a promise they may not be able to fulfill and then as fans we would face a battle to get our money refunded. I'll buy an ST to watch football, I won't buy an ST to be fobbed off with iFollow and a promise. For all the bluster coming out of the FA, PL and EFL there is in fact nothing to show we will back at Ewood in the foreseeable future. The FA are talking about September. Those running the game are having a laugh and clubs selling STs are exploiting their fans. SIX weeks till September. Lets be serious Rovers are going to organise getting 10,000 in to the ground safely for 90 minutes in a six week period? October is ten weeks. Not a prayer. Tomorrow and mask wearing will give us a clue. My money is on less than 30% of shoppers wearing masks. Then what will happen in shops? Extraplolate that to a football stadium. Fans are directed to sit at a certain distance apart, wear masks etc. Some fans decide not to follow the rules/guidelines, it will happen, and what happens next? The stewards are expected to ensure guidelines are adhered to? I've yet to see stewards get fans to sit down. "£2 an hour" - we've all heard it. Whatever rules/guidelines fans are to be expected to follow enforcing them will be a Herculean task and I very much doubt football has the ability or resolve to address the problem. Liverpool last night proves the point - those fans did harm to the possibility of getting supporters back in to grounds. We won't be back at Ewood any time soon so why would I buy an ST?

What strikes me as particularly strange is the log in process. I've done everything asked of me on MY laptop. I can see the STH pass and it shows as paid £0.00. Seems reasonable. The app is installed on my lad's tablet and only this as I didn't want any "more than one device issues." There is nowhere in the device to log in. Every other app I use wants a log in. Rail pass, Covid-19, Google maps, Scrabble - everything except Rovers. After 24 hours the app requested a log in from which point it worked well. Eventually worth all the effort as the lady was delighted and exited in equal measure at the match and result. I didn't receive any details, codes etc. for my own ST.

Tried to get in at 2.45 but constantly getting "connection error, no internet access." I was able to use Google Chrome! Uninstalled and reinstalled the app twice, got in but couldn't watch. Tried to buy a £10 pass to see if that would work. Couldn't buy a pass because I've already got one!!!! After failing to buy a pass I went back to the app which asked me to log in - for the first time in 24 hours. Eventually got the feed at 3.12. Better than I expected and we won. The technology is awful.

OK I REALLY COULD DO WITH HELP - PLEASE. I've been at this for over three hours now. It's not for me, I couldn't give a fig anymore, but my lad is desperate to watch the game. I've finally managed to redeem the code sent to me by the club - I did this on the tablet we need to use. My son needs to watch the game on his tablet, a Samsung and obviously Android because he doesn't have a laptop/PC and Covid-19 prevents me from entering his house so I can't take my laptop inside - I do have his tablet though! I've downloaded the Rovers app from Playstore and can use the app successfully!!! I have an email from Rovers which gave me the code and states: "Test the system before matchday! Take a look at some match highlights from previous fixtures to make sure you have access and your device works properly. Premium content will only be available to premium subscribers." If I go to Highlights I can watch SOME of these but not all. For example I can Derby v Rovers with the image showing the teams coming out. Next to this image is another for the same game but it shows a season ticket. If I try to watch this video I get the message "Alert. To watch this content please upgrade your account" It's the same game for goodness sake!!! The same applies to other matches. Then I go to Latest Videos and click the image of the Tony Mowbray interview, again I get the message "Alert......" If I go to Latest News, Community etc. all I get is "Alert....." I cannot find anywhere in the app to upgrade the account. I will happily pay money for my lad to watch Rovers but it is completely beyond me how to do this. I've tried via the ifollow@efl.com website - every time I enter my email address it says "please enter a valid email address" My two questions are simple - Do I have to find a way to upgrade the account to allow my lad to watch the game? Does the fact I can watch some of the Highlight videos mean we can watch the match tomorrow? I'm not a fool but what I am experiencing is completely beyond me and I do actually know how to use IT!!!!! My wife has shown me her Twitter feed - it's alive with other Rovers fans not understanding this whole process.

Well as expected it's crap. "The promotion code you entered is not valid." Yet another example of how the club no longer gives a shit about the support. TV. TV. TV.........it's all the game cares about these days.

Do you actually understand what has been said in this link? Fans won't be in the ground before March 2021.