4 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

More importantly would Brereton prefer Northcote or Shajan's.

 

A good curry might do him the power of good

15 minutes ago, Stuart said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17008496.tony-mowbray-on-whether-he-feels-rovers-are-a-striker-short/?ref=mac

Well, there you have it. We are a striker short but we play a £7m striker out wide.

Surely he should have mentioned our lack of width meaning we need to use players like Brereton and Armstrong, and even Reid, there?

Or does he really see Brereton as a wide man? In which case we could have got better for less cash.

Sad to say but it looked like Samuel was the man who was earmarked to be Graham's replacement in Mowbray's plans.

We all know Mowbray like's his width to come from forwards who can cut in on one side with a more defensive type midfielder on the other. So once Nyambe is fit, Bennett will move back into a wide position, Reid will go back to the bench or might displace Smallwood with Armstrong remaining on the other wing

13 hours ago, USABlue said:

We all see Rothwell as a player, what is it Mowbary does not like about him.

A couple of weeks ago he said he when joined he wasn't fit enough so maybe it is that. He likes to dribble with the ball rather than lump it upfield to Graham so it could be that.

13 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

He's had two very quiet games the last two imo.  Hope the speculation isn't turning his head a bit.  Arguably he'd look a lot better the better the side he was in but performances apart you can't really quibble with his goal scoring return this term at a higher level especially considering he isn't an out and out striker.

Suspect teams have worked him out a little bit. I think Leeds fell into the trap of thinking they take Dack out of the game you stop Rovers. 

2 hours ago, Doaksie said:

A move that only happened after we were rebuffed in our attempts to bring in Sol Campbell. 

Never heard that one

Chaddy it is very rare that fees are paid in one installment so I can't see this being any diiferent. If Rovers have had a budget of a premier club then yes I'd agree that the size of fee does not matter. But spending this amount on one player must take us close to FFP restrictions so yes the fee does matter and the fact that he is not an automatic starter makes him a luxuryv.

There is no way that Brereton will ever be a like for like replacement for Graham so I cannot understand why people are expecting to him play like that just because he is tall. I agree we should have brought in a Graham type player as a priority because he is key to Rovers system and not getting any younger. I still say that Graham is more key than Dack because Rothwell and Armstrong can all play off Graham when Dack is missing. I would imagine Brereton can as well but we'll have to wait to see if that is the case.

Just now, 47er said:

He should have been more horrified about that donkey of a centre-back he signed for almost as much! Scottish, can't remember his name thank God!

Bloody hell Woy did us some serious damage. A benefactor like that and he relegated us, technically he didn't of course but it was his fault.

That would be Christain Dailly but even he was better than Darren Peacock who'd arrived in the summer.

Actually thinking about Dailly was a converted Scottish midfielder who became a Centre Half. So thats another player cast in the reboot.

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

I heard from a few places that Hodgson didn't fancy signing Davies but the club wanted a big signing to replace Shearer and hopefully replicate him in some form and Davies was the man brought in, young, English, quick, strong etc.

It was also an open secret that Woy made him about as welcome as a turd in a swimming pool !

Part of the problem of the Hodgson reign was that he was one of the original 'Head Coach' foreign schooled types that were beginning to become common in England. Places where he'd worked did things differently and the head coaches asked their sporting directors for certain types of players and they went out, sourced them, brought them in then said here you go coach him and fit him into your side.

Roys poor signings fir huge money would largely back this up i'e he hadn't a clue as he was just used to being presented with quality players who could do as he asked. Also probably around that time agents really got a foot hold into Ewood for obvious reasons !

Apart from the fee I don't think this lad can be compared to Davies really it's a different landscape now.......we hope ?

I heard that Hodgson wanted Davies as one for the future but was horrified when he found out how much we'd paid. As a result he felt he had to play him regardless of form in a vein hope he'd play himself into form. We all know how successful that was.

Could history now be repeating itself with Brereton and Mowbray playing the parts in the reboot? Maybe Chaddy picking himself upfront would see him as the Nathan Blake replacement?

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Probably as inaccurate as your username

 

I know but the name goes back to a famous banner not a statement of fact.

Now please explain why you think Graham is not working hard enough.

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think that the predominant reason for his slow start is the fee weighing heavy on his shoulders.

For me, the primary reason is the way that Mowbray has used him, and he has to take a large brunt of the blame for his really poor start. I have seen a couple of glimmers of positivity in his last 2 cameos that were totally absent prior to that, albeit he has never come close to a goal. I think his confidence is low and I'm sure he is feeling the pressure somewhat, but playing in him in a role that isnt natural to him, and one that he apparently struggled in at his previous club, further away from the goal, will surely only cause his confidence to drain further. You could understand it more if we didnt have Palmer and Rothwell, or even Conway, all players capable of playing the role he is often shoehorned into.

There are already big question marks about spending so much on one player, especially one with such a poor goal record. But Mowbray should adopt a rule of either playing him as a striker or not at all. You mention creating his own identity @Parsonblue and I agree with that but it can only happen in his natural position. 

It maybe weighing heavy on Mowbray's mind though which might explain him being used out of position when there are wide players available

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Think its incredibly harsh to suggest that Graham is not working hard enough.

and blatently wrong

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Don't remind me. It was embarrassing and a low point in Big Sam's time here. Samba was a great centre half but a fish out of water up front. 

Totally agreed but I'm not talking about starting with one up front, Im talking as a sub.

21 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Dack is clever with the ball. He's brilliant at winning free-kicks by using his body, plays some superb through-balls and is a quality dribbler and finisher.

He's just not 6ft and a target man like Graham and will never win the headers like Graham does. We play a lot of balls in the air (We are top of the stats for 'long passes' or we were a few weeks ago). which suit Graham not Dack. 

 

You make it sound that Graham is 6 foot 5 and towers over everyone.

Disagree about Dack too. When things are going against Rovers, Dack thinks he has to win the game himself. There are times he needs to get his head up. The winning of free kicks is why he gets put up top and is what he has learnt, to his credit, off Graham. I agree he is not a number 9.

Graham is not the tallest around and is often small compared to defenders around him but does not get out muscled because of how he positions his body which gives him the advantage. Some refs don't like it and deem it a foul but he does it well and why we will struggle to replace him

Just now, Stuart said:

FTFY!  

lager has hit us all hard 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Graham is key for us because we play in a way that suits a striker like him. Dack. as good as he is,  isn't going to win the knock-downs when the ball is hoofed up to him. 

Another concern is how few goals we score from open play - only about 10 of our 17 so far. We either don't create enough chances or we don't take those chances.

Dack seems to be missing his one good chance per game at the moment.

Graham is clever in that he makes it difficult for defenders by using his strength rather than win the ball. It is something Dack has to learn if this role is to continue. A lot of people disagreed with me when I said Dack is not clever with the ball after the Sheff utd game but at time he is naive.

Dack's missing one chance a game is only a problems when we don't create many chances in a game. Remember it was said that Andy Cole needed 5 chances to score 1.

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I'm surprised we brought on Rodwell rather than Williams tbh. Then we could have kept Rodwell to tighten up midfield later in the game. Either way losing Lenihan was a big blow.

Also same problem of not being able to retain the ball once Graham went off. Brereton looks like he should be a target man but I see why Mowbrays plays him wide as he drops deep, likes the ball to feet, and seems terrible in the air. I'm just so confused by why we signed him when we have half a dozen people who can do a job on the wing, but only one proper striker.

Anyhow for next game I don't think Mowbray will be devastated, we just need to learn from that experience. Maybe we would have been better to put Armstrong up top when Graham went off and just played the long ball over onto his pace. Hmm. Genuinely don't get what putting Dack up there does for us. You could argue that part of the reason Swansea scores those three was previously Dack was dropping in to support Evans and Smallwood, and when Graham went off he couldn't do that any longer.

 

The problem is that when we make the change we isolate the player who is up front. Agree Dack drops into midfield a lot because with Graham up front he can. But when we make the change we naturally seem to drop deeper and as a result the Dack role goes missing leaving the forward isolated with both Armstrong and Brereton wide. Pushing Bereton ot wide meant Reid moving inside alongside Evans and Smallwood but in very few cases did they get forward to support Dack. Surely if we are going to play this way then both Armstrong and Brereton need to be narrower to give Dack some help.

15 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I felt he was worth a goal start for us. Without any doubt the best I've seen at Roversand I go back to Fred Else.

What...even better than Matt Dickens?

Just now, Stuart said:

Which is where Dack plays. We did we buy (yet) another number 10 when we only have one number 9?

Unless he is Dack’s cheaper replacement...

Agree we need another No.9 but there are not many players I've seen that can play that role.

I agree with TM in the fact that Dack has the physical attributes to play the Graham role. He should be harder to knock off the ball than any other player at the club.

What is lacking when Dack is there is someone in the Dack role which is abandoned when Graham goes off. The only time we've come close was the Leeds game when Brereton still went wide and Conway played the No.10 role to start with.

Oh and who is our no.10.....Danny Graham....so maybe Brereton has been signed for the no.10 role..

21 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

He's coaching the kids at (I think) Galatasary according to Colin Hendry, who recently tried to get him to play in a Rangers veterans game.

Does anyone remember this line-up?

Craig Hignett looks in better shape there than when he played. Jeff Kenna hasn't changed.

Looks like life's been harder on the bcak row than the bottom one

23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good post Chaddy. Spot on.

It’s definitely a worry that the man earmarked to take over from Graham can’t play up top and has to go out wide to get on the pitch.

No it does not neccessarily mean that...he could play his natural position as a number 10.

Out of all the players we have at our disposal then Dack should be the one who could play the Graham role. He should be hard to push off the ball. What is removed when Dack takes over the role is the fact that Dack is not close by so he has no outlet ball close by so he feels he has to do it all himself.

Why does Brereton have to come on wide. Why can he not go into the number 10 role?

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Look at Mowbray comments. Its a done deal. But I will ask Rich Sharpe for you

Says who? 

Blimey you might it sound like we are facing Man City or Barca. Look at Rotherham keeping a clean sheet and getting a point against Boro. Anything is possible in this league. Look at us beating the Leeds Utd on Saturday. Beat you thought we would lose before the game. 

I would start up front. 

Bloody Hell Chaddy!

Desperate measures are a bit much after losing one game. Picking yourself to start upfront might surprise the Baggies I grant you but it might lower the confidence of the other forwards when we resort to picking fans instead of them!!!

9 hours ago, den said:

Again. Without DG we have no one able to play his role.

We need someone with a nuiscance value up there who is not easily bullied so maybe we might be better off sticking a centre half up there rather than any other forward as they all easily bullied off the ball.

Allerdyce tried it with Samba in the past. 

9 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Goals definitely change games. If their equalizer had been an inch either side it would’ve been saved or gone out. If Benno has slid that one across the goal, 2-2. Ditto the save from Dack.

End of the day we didn’t create enough up front, before and after Graham went off, and all three of their goals came from runs at the middle of our defence, which has dented my positivity to date on Rodwell.

I'd be more worried about rodwell at centre half but all three  goals came from runs from deep. Evans was struggling and needed to come off sooner. The 2nd goal he was running in glue. Smallwood was missing for it as well.

The lack of pace in the whole team bar Armstrong is a major worry along with ball retention.

Oddly I thought Brereton was one of the few players who did OK in that poor 2nd half performance. I can't understand why Mowbray is looking to see out a game then why both Brereton and Armstrong are on the park as neither are natural at chasing and harrassing the full back when the oppossition are attacking. This just gives the opponents an overlap and gives an easy ball to them. 

15 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I'll give you that, but I don't think an anonymous 35 mins up front against a rampant Derby side is enough to write him off. I thought the first half at Bolton showed that we can play some good stuff on the floor and not have to automatically lump it to Graham and see if it sticks.

 

EDIT Just to clarify, I know Armstrong started on the bench that game and Graham started. I don't feel as though Armstrong would've been any worse had he started, the way that we were playing. 

The thing is Graham is the outlet ball. He holds the ball allowing others to play off. Wether that is Armstrong, Dack or Brereton the key is Graham.

Without him the ball comes back onto our defence too quick. Its one of the reasons we are always struggling to clear our lines at the end of the game because usually Graham has been taken off or he is too knackered to move.