Kean, Steele, Raya, Walton ...

All young lads all learning on the job here and all flappy or unpredictable because of the young and learning bit.

Until we step away and get someone who's learnt somewhere else for a few years the process will just repeat itself.  Of course we are just fans with opinions yet some are paid thousands per week and still can't seem to grasp this.

Nob End  ( yes i know them again but TM started it ) needed a young cheap keeper so they found one, loaned him to see then signed him and he's been in the sticks a few years finishing above us.  They wanted a decent defender without having the means for a fee loan or otherwise or huge wages, they found one and signed him.

Now if they can manage it why not us ?  We have or at least had the means to shop in the aisle or two above them.

What's the common denominator in all this ?

10 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Oh no. Bauer is BANG average and I’d have taken Tosin all day over.

There is no difference between a fully fit Derek Williams and Patrick Bauer. They’re both middle of the road Championship defenders.

As for stats, well our outgoing keeper just had the joint best ever record for clean sheets and is seemingly one of the worst keepers to grace Ewood park. ?

All about opinions of course but I watched  Bauer at the end of his time with Charlton and probably 5 or 6 times at PNE and he’s basically a 7/10 run of the mill cb. Anyone who says anything different (Including mr elite football lol) Is just trying to further their own agenda.

We dodged a bullet last season and got a FAR better cb. Get Del fully fit and a good lb in and we’re in no worse situation than had Bauer signed. 

Lazy comparison ? for a start one is a left back recently converted to CH and has not much more than a handful of games in that position last season.

Plus you've actually answered the point most are trying to make in saying Bauer is a steady 7/10 Championship defender. JHC man isn't that exactly what we need to pair up the our other one ??????

Tosin and his like are simply expensive luxuries that only pay of if you get yourself into contention for promotion. Otherwise pointless really COMPARED to building your own defense to serve you season in season out and provide a proper steady if not spectacular platform to build a team on.

The only one pushing an agenda as usual is you with your painful i know everything attitude.

4 minutes ago, neophox said:

Will Derrick and Charlie still be here in september?

 

I really hope we give Scott Wharton a run out in pre season. Promoted with northampton and probably their best player. Thats good experience for a young lad coming in to a rovers team.

If he didn't belong here and Rovers had gone and signed him now for modest money and wages as back up i think most would be fairly accepting of that.  

I'd still prefer to see the back of Mulgrew on loan then bring a good CH in and have Wharton and Del fight it out for 3rd choice.

2 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Here's a thought Tony... let's not sell off our "star" younger players for peanuts again this summer, instead let's not keep giving long term contracts and extentions to L1 and past it players. 

Smallwood, Hart, Leutwiler and Samuel combined probably cost £1-1.5m in wages this past season... basically half of what we sold Raya for went to pay them 4 last year. Let that sink in.

Mulgrew and his £20k a week will cost that much next season on his own, Evans, Johnson, Bennett and Downing* will cost around £3-4m next year in wages.

But instead, lets sell Nyambe or Travis to cover those 5 players wages for a year. 

Second point there is something that was highlighted before even a ball was kicked last season. Carrying deadwood who may or may not play a part but who you categorically know aren't good enough to be part of a top 6 drive is all wrong.  Then we are a few quid short on wages for a decent keeper or center half on frees or whatever.

Meanwhile everyone is happy around the place because all their mates are there. Surely you don't need that kind of pandering just to have a good team spirit ?

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Reporter at the other paper. Idk what Sharpe is on about. Only relaying what I've been told. Promotion clause of up to two million but nothing known about sell on clauses exitsing. 

Goalposts, uprooted and swiftly moved... tut tut.

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

There's a promotion clause... but no sell on fee. Promotion clauses could reach £2m, but been categorically told that there's no sell on or percentage of profit sell on etc...

Oh FFS yet another monumental bollock dropped by the inhouse incompetents. I hope blood vessels are popping in the farmhouse in Pune.

Well he seems to have been regular at Preston when fit and they've finished above us just and he'd probably be able to command a fee now. He'll be there again next season knowing his job and who's around him and behind him meanwhile we've had a quality ball player end up in that position but i doubt he's any better defensively. Plus that's another million quid onto the debt with no return and it's all change again next season.

Probably back to Williams or even Mulgrew again so that's the difference really that Preston model seems more the build that Mowbray keeps spinning to everyone. Yet it just looks like he just plugs holes however he can and chucks money at players who certain people push forwards in a grab em whilst you can type plan.

15 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Rightly or wrongly they’ve chosen to spend that money on the strikers but that still has little relevance to the actual point. Players aren’t signed in order of importance, they’re signed as they become available. Ergo speaking to Whiteman isn’t a sign that they want a CM more than a CB just that they had a chance to speak with him and took it. 

The point is it is the wrong way to go about it sadly, now i can understand it when Bowyer was throwing together a side under embargo.  I'll understand it to a degree in the present climate although pandemic aside we should have left ourselves a bit better equipped in certain areas.

However possibly pulling out of offering Bauer anything because after a 12 month plus courting and jumping for Downing. Then splashing the money that came available late from Raya straight into the direction of Gallagher because you've fancied him a while but didn't have the doh isn't any kind of real plan. It's also played a part in where we might be now.

Ok if you've been guaranteed 5 mill every summer for say 5 seasons along side a healthy wage budget then maybe you can get away with doing it back to front.  Hoping it'll all come together in the end but i doubt that was the case it's still more scattergun make it up as you go along so in actual fact that is the point. 

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I agree with your comments on Raya. Although he made a couple of serious mistakes I still thought he had enough about him to be persisted with. Especially as we appeared not to have a ready made replacement in the offing. He was capable of draw dropping saves on occasions so obviously the ability was there, I've hardly seen his replacement make one in a full season. Raya's judgement needed working on but that should have been done. He was clearly shown the door by Mowbray's treatment of him, I don't think he had itchy feet before that moment. 

Like i said i wasn't a huge fan i'm always more keen on a steady pair of hands in the sticks who might not claw jaw droppers out the top corner but won't gift wrap 9 points per season either.  Always thought though that Raya should have had proper competition and an experienced coach so he could take a step back and come again if needed.

At his age with his ability he was definitely worth pulling the stops out to try and make him into what he'll probably now become. Thing is though if they get promoted and if he gets snapped up for good money that's a hell of a lot of money for Rovers for doing very little.  

Good business but not necessarily good for the progress of the team.  Then again if they'd pulled their fingers out and either had another decent keeper on the books or stopped penny pinching in that berth and bought one when he left there wouldn't be this mither.

So again the buck stops in the usual places.

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

How so? Surely goes like this...Ok guys we are looking for two keepers a cb, a lb and a Cm. The total budget is x and the allocated budget for each position is roughly a, b and c. Here’s a list of players we’ve scouted in each position with choices 1-?.

Then it’s a case of who comes available first with the ultimate goal to cover all the positions. ??‍♂️

Yet the past few summers budgets which could and should have gone someway to covering those areas, directing it into a bit of quality for the 'slow' build, have been spewed on fanciful signings like Brereton, Gallagher and to a lesser extent Downing.

Now we are back to probably trying to stretch a couple of million around 5 different positions. 

You are confusing how it should be done with how it is actually done here.

Just now, Dave S said:

With Barnsley they don't have much debt but the owners won't spend. 

Last season they sold both centre backs and were nearly relegated.

Liam Lindsey to Stoke for £2 miilion plus and Ethan Pinnock to Brentford who cost £500k for £3 million.

Similar in a way to when Rovers sold Duffy and Hanley in the same closed season.

Except we added to our debt by getting in a manager and several players who were almost guaranteed to rubber stamp relegation.

Doubt Barnsley would have gone anywhere near Wes Brown let alone given him 10 grand per week.

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Not really mate. Players are signed as and when they become available not in order of importance. We’re not playing Fifa.

Which is flawed in itself even you can see that but that's the world we live in.

Just now, Dave S said:

A work colleague of mine supports Barnsley and this is what they do.

He states that no one will pay mega bucks for a Barnsley player, so they sell with add ons.

John Stones went to Everton for £3 million then was sold to Man City, the add on payment to Barnsley was over double what they sold him for.

 

 

Not a bad system if you can churn out enough talent but it's not good if it comes at the price of hindering the first team.  The whole idea should be to build a side for promotion but i fear water treading and that kind of system suits some people better.

I'd much prefer to harness the talent as long as possible to try and push us forwards then try and keep the sales to one big one every 2 or 3 years. As you say though with Barnsley i think we will be similar now more of a feeder club.

Not sure if they are backed by billionaires though ?

I wasn't his biggest fan but he was still raw there was big potential there everyone could see. He clearly needed to be working with a better set up and have solid competition.  He still has the ricks in him probably always will but he's also obviously come on leaps and bounds in less than a year there.

Seems the lazy easy route here was to hang him out to dry and push him towards the door. Not a good look.

Then we get a lad in with similar championship experience who looks nervous to start, settles in and looks quite steady then begins to go backwards. By the end looks rubbish and all that follows a similar pattern to Steele. The whole keeper setup needs a big revamp by the looks of it.

10 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Summer 2019 - Sold Raya, no replacement comes in.

Summer 2020 - Hopes Raya gets promoted or sold (again), so we can get a replacement in. The world of Blackburn Rovers ladies and gents.

 

Something i touched on before this kind of thing could become the norm here now. Sell academy graduate's for a couple of million after they've established themselves in the first team because you need that regular cash injection. Then hope to benefit down the line from another transfer after another club has paid them better wages for more games at a better standard.

Crafty way of dealing with a conveyor belt of young talent whilst you prop your own squad up with cheapo's and freebies. And of course in the middle are the % men.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell us how we cover the several million pound hole through loss of income from this season ?

If they are targeting CM yet again then it's a scary insight into the managers muddled thinking. "I know what's wrong"   well that ain't it my old son.

I don't think anyone would argue if they brought a good one in and maybe got rid of Johnson and possibly even Holtby. If any signings are made there though it's likely to be just another body and yet another option to rotate around. Groundhog day in other words.

He was an upgrade on Lowe and far more suited to the role, a shrewd signing at the time by Mowbray. 

Be interesting to see where he ends up next when you look at Lowe's career path that's now arrived at Salford probably earning more than he did at Bolton.  Would expect Smallwood to get a decent lge 1 gig somewhere.

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

According to someone I was speaking to this morning we're after Chris Brunt. Not for me personally as he's 36 in December but the source thought this was an indication we had no money.

Also if the source is correct Downing has been on very healthy money here indeed so I'd have thought he'd need to agree a massive cut to be here next season.

I'd steer clear of both personally.

Well he was on 33k at Boro so no way was he coming here for ten grand pwk i said it at the time some of our fans are very naive when it comes to wages.  Getting him was the real reason imo Mowbray decided to pass on Bauer and put all the money into Downing.

Again to me although Downing turned out quite well it was still the wrong move and looks so now. Guys like him at 20 grand plus per week are luxury signings. The final piece of the jigsaw to help push you over the line but that was never going to be the case here. It was another of TMs starry eyed punts because all the bits added up behind the scenes.  Now we are a million quid lighter and still nowhere near the play offs.

25 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Probably rollocks, but Tony’s dropped a big one either way: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12222563/arsenal-city-summer-transfer-brentford-raya/

Let's hope they had the brains to include add ons in the deal if not the penny might drop in Pune when Balaji reads about that over his cornflakes.

Isn't that just the type of thing we are supposed to be doing ourselves ?  He'll be waiting for the ten million plus bids for Brereton and Gallagher instead no doubt.

If they resigned Steele that would be an Owen Coyle level piss take although i think we could very well end up with someone not even as good as Walton.

Another completely ridiculous situation to be in under this present set up.

2 hours ago, Lucimo said:

I never said they did. I never rated him before his misdemeanours. Berg was simply a better player. He has far more medals in his collection than Hendry. And by the way what has berg suing the club got to do with his achievements as a player. We clearly aren't going to agree, we are all entitled to our own opinions. And as someone has pointed out already this isn't the nostalgia thread so let's leave it there eh!! 

You were the one dragging Henry's private matters into it because of your notion that he was overrated which is ridiculous. You were also the one who decided to compare him to Berg when they were different types of players you'd never get Berg playing as a striker for a start.  

Big Col also got the treble in his top level swansong at Rangers which isn't bad. Just comes across as sour grapes from you towards him for some reason and a bit more than just a player opinion.

So yeah leave it there now the records straight... EH !!!

27 minutes ago, A Northern Horde... said:

I just pray and hope we can improve upon players like Smallwood.We MUST if we are ever to move forward.

We already did to be fair but letting him sit out his contract and even add another month or so when there was no intention of using him sticks in the craw a bit.

Similar to the stuff with Mulgrew, Gladwin etc that's what needs to change if we are to move forwards. Every available penny should be used to push and improve not look after people.  Yes there's responsibility and the human angle but there's a fine line between that and taking the piss.

18 minutes ago, Lucimo said:

The state of our club at the time and the way he was treated you can hardly blame him. I'd be more concerned about the love in for Hendry with his alleged misdemeanours. 

His alleged misdemeanours have jack shit to do with his ratings as a player, sounds like you've an axe to grind. Does he owe you money ?

Not getting all misty eyed about this one like some seem to be in some places.  Did a great job at his level in league 1 but obviously struggled with the step up.  TM did the right thing replacing him with his numerous other mids but keeping him around doing nothing coupled with him at one point turning down games with the U23s doesn't sit well with me.

Had his moment and we are thankful but also seems to be another who's done very well out of this manager and his soft side.

Best of luck to him in the future but imo should have been gone  7 months ago.