Would FFP also not just apply to the clubs own accounts and not it's holding company ? They won't be much different obviously but there'll probably some daylight one way or another.

VLL run and fund Rovers and VH group own and fund VLL so it all comes under the parent company finances i'd wager. The may have had to resort to putting in private funds or whatever but i'd be amazed if they fund it all privately in fact i'd be gob smacked. Using it as a loss leader against other profits is the one and only thing that makes any grain of sense in their ownership.

It belongs to the VH group in INDIA and the VH group funds it, one arm of a company financing another out of its own resources/income/bank facilities - how would it not be offset against tax for the parent company ?

If they pay the wages etc every month out of their company bank account in India ?

Someone got them to cough up for Duffy, he probably came through some familiar channels so it might've taken a lot of 'advising' but the line was more than likely we can make a few quid on this lad. They did so it would probably have to be something similar to get them to invest again but I think their minds are more along the lines of develop Nyambe/Lenihen/Bell to flog.

Of course they could and as I pointed out on another post then it would need someone coming in with say 50 million in surplus cash just to get us through the next couple of seasons whilst things were restructured. Very unlikely of course but it's only similar to some other clubs and their takeovers that's why it's a billionaires playground these days not a millionaires but it is possible. It would all be about the depth of a new owners pockets although if Vs just pulled the plug overnight then we'd be up the creek and have to take some of the drastic action pointed out obviously but a takeover needn't be so drastic as it's being portrayed for some reason.

Let's not forget that not long ago Cairney was sold from under Bowyers nose out of the blue because allegedly a quick cash injection was needed, that proved the catalyst for another 20 millions worth out of the door including most of the big earners - that can be filed under debt reducing but look where it left us. Then a season or two ago we have to sign near 40 year old free transfers for a defence, hire an utter moron for manager because he was cheap and take out mid season loans of about 5 million from football finance institutions just to keep the club going ala Bolton,( Cheston gets some well earned stick but he might have just played a blinder there) - Look where all that left us = relegation and lge 1 for first time in 40 years ! That can also be filled as cost cutting so when one or two on here are proclaiming Venkys have reduced the wage bill etc just think how it really came about it certainly wasn't some grand plan that they now deserve credit for. They dragged the club to the abyss and are more than capable of doing so again regardless of what losses they are funding or accounting illusions they create. They can have a modicum of credit for holding their nerve after relegation they deserve that much but in reality only the lucky punt (25-1) on TM and him fitting the job well saved us from more pain.

Graph number 2 supports the long held beliefs that over Venkys time sales cover purchases more or less so they haven't really shelled out a bean to buy players. Guaranteeing the wages in the absence of Prem income has been their main task which doesn't seem to bother them at all probably seeing as it's just syphoned off weekly turnover from elsewhere and written off against tax. Sell to buy if we want big moves in summer ?

Not forgetting the fact that the wage still contains pay offs of former people and god knows what else so the actual football wage bill IS less. Didn't TM say it was closer to 8 mill last season ? Other clubs manage ok on those figures it's all about how it's run from top to bottom.

Don't forget an audience with Her Maj !

Didn't V's pay off about 3 million quids worth of debt at some point in the recent past to help navigate around FFP ? Probably just that going back to the parent company.

Which is why squeezing a few extra quid out of visiting fans and moving kick offs to accommodate this is pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things. Especially when it's pissing off your own supporters a bit like closing sections of the ground. Chicken feed.

And it would all depend on the wealth and ambition of a new owner as the model Venkys fund is the one they've created. Someone with clout might pay off any external debt then pay off and cut away a lot of deadwood as there is still plenty around wasting resources. Then we'd be starting off in better shape than right now and ongoing costs would've been reduced. We are reliant on Venkys funding their model at this level but that doesn't mean there isn't better out there who has to come in and just chuck money into the mess they've created and carry on the same. Chances of finding them are slim and chances of these lot doing a generous deal even slimmer but in an ideal world it would be doable. It all gets a bit like the May brexit deal at times, Venkys way or no way at all and bust instead, not true but for now we are stuck with them and their death grip on the club until they jack it in.

Basically we are now worth again about what they paid for us taking everything into account plus the overdraft will be at a similar level probably. Not an unreasonable punt for someone with cash and ambition. They'll never sell though and even if so they'd never write of all that debt Eddie Davies / Uncle Jack style

Player sales form part of the overall income as you say and that reduces debt and there was a large cashing in of assets a few years ago that no doubt helped massively to reduce that. Theoretically at any point in time say preseason for arguments sake they could pay off the overdraft or other external debts to give us a clean slate but they don't because that would cock up the accounting process. Probably standard practise at many clubs but imo next time that overdraft is stretching to the limit and the bank are getting tetchy players will be sold to reduce it in the short term and Venkys won't plug in say 5 million as a one of to cover it. People seem to portray it as if the club has no income of its own and they just pay for everything - I say that every season. We are reliant on them but that's mainly because of the model they run i.e run it cack handed run up continuing losses on one hand whilst trying to reduce them with the other, the club is stuck inbetween this scenario and has to pay a slice of it itself whilst yes the owners cover the rest but it doesn't make it right.

That's not what i'm suggesting either it's just a by product now of their ownership like having a loss making money pit in their portfolio. Not entirely what it was bought for in the first place but still comes in handy now they've found other uses for it.

They wanted the club for publicity but the first plans went awry but now annually they are publicised as wealthy generous benefactors propping the club up, i'm sure that does them no harm in certain quarters. Every time we are on SKY it gets rammed down the throats several times per match, 'Venkys keep pumping in x million, badly advised etc etc' Not exactly bad publicity is it.

No doubt helped by income from player sales they don't appear to pump money in to reduce external debt the club seems to have to fund that itself.

It must have some kind of advantages but at the very least it will show up on their books over there as a loss making oversees entity that needs propping up by 10/20 million per year, regardless of its own turnover. So it'll be swallowing up on paper a big lump of group profits although i'm sure when big Baz is over here and wants a bit of ready cash for expenses or some other European venture he can conjure it up no bother..

He has to keep positions available for the favs in his pecking order so the others have to realise they'll be used or shoehorned in behind them hence the comments. Or he could just be trying to get younger players working harder to get in and stay in the team ?

It's an accounting tool the figures will always make for uncomfortable reading whilst they own it but it'll never damage them whilst they are raking it in elsewhere in their empire but the club itself will never prosper. I wish people would wake up to this, it's a handy oversees loss making entity to have on the books that one day might return millions if needed but it doesn't really matter in the meantime. Sadly as pointed out run that way the club LIKE MANY OTHERS is reliant on ownership funding to compete at this level, oh and the BOI who seem to be doing alright out of it as well....

At the very least the next keeper needs to be one who directly challenges Raya for a first team place but in all likelihood this lad will get another deal Mowbray signed him after all.

I love Souey but him and his mate Willie Mackay were a bit ropey ? I'd just chuck him in the 5 asides he'd still dish a bit out and hopefully boot the likes of Evans up in the air to get some kind of reaction.

I know it's an old conspiracy but to me it's never totally gone away I still believe that we do a certain amount of our business only via certain channels and what they present to Rovers or what they can supply when asked. Friends of friends in high places and people doing each other favours and i'm not tarring Mowbray with the Kean brush i'm just assuming that it'll be the same for any manager under this ownership. Aside from that though I reckon the non action of the last window was mainly down to penny pinching again and I think this summer might be revealing. The gaffer will have maybe a million or two to play with and then have to generate his own movement by natural wastage and moving a few on. As with some assuming there was a separate pot (from somewhere) for the likes of Brereton I believe that it works in reverse for very big transfers out where the majority of the money either disappears or what is left after % is committed to ongoing running costs as it comes in forming part of future seasonal overall budgets to run the club. In short if he shifts someone for a million he'll get that million but if he shits someone for ten million he'll probably still only get a million !

He's a few raw edges to smooth out and fitness to manage but certainly worth keeping around and keeping him involved he at least looks like he's trying to prove a point. The type of guy who if Preston had signed him in the last couple of years would be doing well by now !