roversfan99

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Why have fans turned on him? 

Im just basing on what my friend is regularly saying, had a quick look online and he certainly isnt alone:

https://www.pne-online.net/forum/index.php?threads/is-it-time.3431751/

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I disagree there. Places have to be earn in the team by performing well. No one should have guarantee place. 

Well by that token, neither is Armstrong.

In his Rovers career, Dack has scored and produced consistently and with regularity, as has Armstrong in 2020, both to a level that considerably outweighs the importance and the consistency of the other players I mentioned. Assuming that there are no mitigating circumstances, it is Armstrong, Dack and 9 others. Obviously if either had a prolonged bad spell of form, then maybe that might change.

It will be interesting to see if he even has a long term future at Liverpool. Rhian Brewster was seen as the next big thing and excelled at Championship level yet the standard required to become even a Liverpool squad man is so high that they were happy to sell him for big money to another Premier League club.

He will need to start scoring quite a few goals before that price tag becomes in any danger of being value for money or indeed a potential long term source of profit. His improvement is very promising and his goal again on Saturday was great to see but he will need to start adding a new dimension to his game by getting goals and anticipating chances before he can really kick on.

This correlation drawn between a crudely calculated position of where we are in the "finance league" is flawed because its nowhere near as simple as that.

I do think that we slighty underestimate the resources that Mowbray has had purely because we havent sold off players to fund signings like most other teams have, so our net spend will compare very favourably to most. Our wage bill will presumably have also really gone up and should be shown in accounts yet to be submitted, since we have had added Johnson, Holtby, Gallagher, Downing, Ayala, Kaminski and the 3 loanees amongst others, there are some serious salary additions since the last published accounts in June 2019.

Then there is time, Mowbray had had more time than anyone in the league bar recently promoted Wycombe and Gareth Ainsworth. Some of the clubs with obviously bigger resources have had key sales and relegation hangovers to deal with.

Proof that judging the manager isnt just dependant on resources can be seen at Preston where their fans have started to really turn far more than we have at Alex Neil and they have had far less money than us. Our top scorer was a player they couldnt afford and we have since signed 2 forwards for much more than that. But Preston have had a few years around the play offs, Neil has had plenty of time and are PNE fans deluded for thinking that they have the right to want a change? No.

Im also unconvinced by this assertion that our squad is top 6 worthy until it proves it. That has to be the target and we are already fighting against a deficit.

41 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

A couple of months ago I would have thought when he comes back Dack play centrally with Armstrong left, but given Brereton's improvement we have a genuine problem now. 

If everyone's fit our best team is probably that below : 

-------------------------Kaminski

Nyambe-----Lenihan-----Williams-----Douglas

----------Holtby-----Johnson-----Rothwell

-----------Eliott-----Armstrong---Brereton

I can't really see dropping any of the forwards or mids if fit - all of them are good value for their places. So I guess Dack will just come in wherever injuries or suspensions happen. Sure that will happen pretty quickly though given we have two games a week through November and December.

With Dack though once he is fit, he has to be in the team, him and Armstrong are the 2 main attacking players. Holtby, an improved Brereton and Rothwell all have their strengths but in terms of consistent performances and output, Dack is in a league of his own compared to them 3.

If Dack does not fit into the side within the current formation, we might need to tweak it to get him in. Having Dack and Armstrong together should massively reduce the current over reliance on the latter. 

I would also have Travis in there, as well as Ayala at CB over Williams.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Just decent? 

Does the price tag influence how you the player performance? 

It plays a part in the analysis of whether he is a good signing but in regards to his performances in the first couple of years, no. I would be critical of a player who looked that out of place whether he was from the academy or a freebie. He just looked lost irrespective of the price tag. 

Great news. The sooner hs is back in the team the stronger we will be.

2 minutes ago, tonygreenbank said:

You have stated on more than one occasion that promotion under Mowbray is not going to happen and yet here you are suggesting that only promotion is to be classed as success!

You can’t have it both ways.

You will be delighted like the rest of us if we get back to the Prem but if we don’t then you will be heralded as a sage. What a great position to be in.

Surely if he thinks that promotion is the aim and that the manager isnt capable of said aim then it is logical to want his removal?

3 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

Says a lot that Magloire coped better with Jamie Vardy than he did against Joe Garner and Steven Fletcher/ Nuhiu.

Problem is Its hard to say how much of an impact heading these newer balls has atm. The dementia cases seems liked to players in the 60's and 70's. The game is a lot different now so Its hard to say how much it would achieve.

To be fair, the main difference facing Vardy is that it was in a friendly. Had he faced Vardy in a competitive game I suspect it would have been a different story.

21 hours ago, danger19_80 said:

Is Gallagher the only major stick left to beat Mowbray with transfer-wise now?

No, it isnt about having a "stick" to beat the manager with, but if we was to judge at this point then Brereton still would very much come under the unsuccessful signing category and for a ghastly fee too.

Obviously one thing that Brereton has done this season is start to show glimmers of promise and potential that he could prove to be an asset which prior to this season did not seem to be the case at all. Of course he will need to step up a couple more levels further before the fee and justifying that fee becomes a genuine conversation.

I suspect that I am not on my own in feeling especially pleased when he scored even compared to anyone else though.

Overall, I still think that Mowbrays transfer record is a mixed bag. 2 main success stories in Dack and Armstrong and 2 main expensive question marks. Then beneath that, quite a few shorter term successes, some cheaper failures, and quite a few in the middle who flatter to deceive. It isnt a case of one big stick to beat the manager for amidst an otherwise successful history, it is mixed, good, bad and indifferent all included.

Very happy tonight, was a critical game that we had to win so to do so is very satisfying.

Everything changed with Armstrong coming back, we are overly reliant on him and in the first half he was so frustrating with his end product and decision making but he is the one player who gets the goals with such regularity and is such a threat.

Brereton did very well, I have always been critical and rightly so about his numbers and I was made up to see him score, I feel happier when he scores than anyone else I think, and it was a brilliant finish. He also did some very good work for the second to break and set up Elliott who bar a few very good touches was quite quiet but that pass was superb.

Johnson was brilliant in the middle, Rothwell was much better too and gave us something different. Buckley the least effective of the 3 but tidy enough and much better than his last performance when he had a shocker, maybe a bit of a blessing with Evans as much as we dont want an injury because Evans cannot play that role.

I thought that Wharton did well, he differs from Magloire/Grayson/Carter etc who all looked massively out of their depth when they played, maybe it is the loan spells but Wharton looked comfortable and nearly scored at the other end, although on the ball he is really poor. Lenihan has had a couple of much needed good performances this week. Both full backs were fairly impressive although were both caught out when Kane hit the post. Kaminski was a welcome return, the opposite of Pears who did look so lost coming for crosses, he also made a couple of very good saves although poor for the penalty which I am surprised to see so much complaining about the award of.

We have had a crap start to the season and are already playing catch up, and I am not convinced that we are suddenly going to go on a brilliant run as soon as we come back but today was very pleasing and good to see.

Very worried that we are risking Armstrong when his hamstring cannot be totally right.

Says a lot about a 5m striker that he cannot be trusted even if it means rushing back Armstrong.

Its a must win game though so hopefully we can get it against a poor QPR side with a manager who focuses more on "playing the right way" than results.

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Bad news about Kaminski....

Bell would be a big improvement over JRC at left back imo.

Only really need one of Johnson, Evans, Trybull for the holding role. If I had to pick I would go for Johnson as he offers a goal threat, height and physicality. I've been a bit non plussed by Trybull. Tidy enough but doesn't really press or offer much physicality and is fond of sideways and back passing. Needs to work a lot harder for me and pass forward more.

Definitely wouldnt play Johnson in the holding role, for me it highlights his weaknesses on the ball (as it did for the Forest winner) and he is incapable of taking the ball on the half turn. Would play him in one of the 2 more advanced midfield roles if we are to continue with the 433 for this weekend, he gives us a goal threat which we need. Your comments on Trybull I totally agree with, has given the ball away a few times and looked quite ponderous. We might have to resort to Evans in front of the back 4 who did well when he came on in a much more familiar role.

Not sure at left back. Rankin Costello isnt comfortable there but Bell is consistently poor so a flip of a coin there really. Rothwells absence has been overhyped but I wouldnt mind him coming in from the left, Elliott right and either of the 12m forwards, equally impotent really. Wharton in for Williams. It is a tough selection for a critical game.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/november/injury-update-tom-trybull--derrick-williams/

Bell and Johnson potentially back this weekend, not sure they will make much difference really.

27 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I'm the last person to defend Mowbray on this board, but unfortunately it's a team game - having 4 internationals on the field doesn't meant much if the other 7 aren't up to much cop!

It says a lot about Williams' power in the dressing room / how poor Mowbray thinks he is at LB for him not to start there last night - Rankin-Costello is a talented player, but he's not a FB. He's been rinsed there all season.

As for the goal scoring - at the end of the day it's about service and the two wide players in our front three don't receive any. As long as they're contributing assists / holding the ball up, I don't worry how many goals they're scoring themselves. 

 

Gallagher is awful though.

I disagree that goalscoring is all about service, obviously it plays a part but poor strikers dont get into goalscoring positions. I think we need the wider 2 (assuming we continue to play this formation which im not sure is wise) to start scoring goals because we are reliant solely on Armstrong. Brereton is the perfect example of a player who is always on his heels rather than anticipating bits and pieces around the penalty box and it is so infuriating.

You mention hold up play though quite rightly as some of Gallaghers last night was appalling.

Down to 17th as it stands. 

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It’s not what other players could we use it’s what did we do with the players available. We can’t keep trotting out hard luck stories . Maybe last night I’m being harsh as a one off but there is always A reason we can’t compete. ALWAYS. We just need to sort the keeper, we just need to sort the defence, we just need dack back, we just need rothwell driving forward . We just a need a manager who can organise a team of 11 professional footballers from the squad of 30 odd players he’s assembled to be able to play as a unit and maybe just maybe have the odd shot in target

Spot on. We are also always *insert reason here* away from putting together a run of wins too.

Is there any striker for any of the other 23 sides in the division that anyone wouldnt swap for Gallagher or Brereton out of interest? I cant think of any.

4 hours ago, unsall said:

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

Watford are a bad example, of course they are a former Premier League team but they have had Gray, Deeney, Dele-Bashiru, Hughes, Capoue, Masina, Perica, Success and a few others all out, they did when they beat us. Reading beat us with possibly their best 2 players out in Ejaria and Swift. "Full strength" Boro last night where without Hall, Morsy and Fletcher as well as Roberts being not fit enough to do anything but make the numbers up. Derby have had loads of bad luck with injuries, Jozwiak got an injury, Rooney had to isolate, Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielek etc yet there was nobody saying it was an under strength Derby that we hammered. Bristol City have just suffered a number of serious injuries all at once. Preston have had loads of injuries. There are so many absentees at the moment across the league, we are particularly hard done to at the moment of course but also we arent on our own.

There is a balance to be had between of course having sympathy at the frustration of having so many absentees but equally not just giving the manager a clean slate when there are controllables within the remaining squad whereby Mowbray can constructively be criticised for. If you have 12m worth of attacking talent you can surely expect to have a meaningful attempt at goal at home to Middlesbrough? You surely can expect to take at least one semi successful set piece rather than wasting every single one through the tactical choice to keep going short?

But my main issue is with this assumption that as soon as we get a clean bill of health (or close to as that isnt realistic) that we will suddenly click into gear and go on a run. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Our form in 2020 has been piss poor, not just in the last 2 or 3 games in which admittedly the injury table or moreso the list of people isolating has really increased.

12 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I really can’t understand the Mowbray out prograde.

Well I sort of do, you think by right we should be in the Premier League. You think bin Mowbray, get gods knows who in and all of a sudden we will be EPL.
 

Infact from what I see most you think Damien Johnson is the answer, because you know, you lot love an insider.

The majority of you think Johnson was shit, yet we miss him. You said we don’t need Downing now, yet he was our best player last season and now you rejoice he’s back.

The majority have bummed Lenihan for last few years, but are now seeing the useless waste of space Williams is our best centre half.

The majority wrote of Brereton as a 19yr old flop, desperate for Chapman after his 2 good games in League 1.

The majority didn’t want Armstrong anymore, league 1 player, now our star man and top scorer of the league, yet still some aren’t sure cos our million pound man doesn’t finish every opportunity.

The disaster that is Mowbray built this squad you all adore. He is the reason we got promoted first time asking, he is the reason we have this squad, (as in Elliott Bennett) another who the majority want out.

The majority on here do not have the first clue. Honestly. It’s not good enough right now, but it’s no where near manager out time.

 

Very good job at making out anyone who questions the managers position to be doing so on crazy demands that we have to become a Premier League, have a divine right to do so and sacking Mowbray will instantly grant that wish.

The results are consistently inconsistent and underwhelming. This season, across 2020, across last season, its always nearly but not quite and id be amazed if anyone can constructively prove that we are going in the right direction. We just seem to be going sideways, middling along.

For 2 years now at least, most keen to defend the manager have done so by claiming that once a mitigating factor is corrected, that everything will fall in to place. Once we fix the defence, well weve actually signed decent players, Adarabioyo last season for one but now especially with Mowbrays expansive tactics the back 4 is more exposed than ever. If Dack is back, then things will fall into place. When we have a fully fit squad we can compete for the top 6, a fully fit squad is a luxury managers very rarely have, but do we start judging when Travis is back around Christmas and refrain from judgement until then at which point any slither of a chance of meeting our expectations might already be gone? Once Gallagher and Brereton start firing, there seemingly is more chance of pigs flying, the fact that we couldnt muster up a credible chance all game with a 12m strikeforce has to be pretty damning on the manager. Our reliance on Armstrong is unhealthy, he has been undoubtedly very good (and the one poster advising dropping him was obviously talking nonsense) but there shouldnt be such a reliance on him and such a drop to our other 2 strikers.

The one aspect that i disagree with quite a few is the quality of squad, I think that people overestimate the quality within it. I do think a new manager could get more from it however.

Just now, LeftWinger said:

This is categorically incorrect.

Sheffield Wednesday, Hull, Huddersfield, Bristol City, PNE, Derby, Barnsley, QPR have all lost more than Rovers. Charlton have lost the same amount from 7 fewer matches.
You can get statistics to say anything you want, particularly if you're making them up.

Rovers are the 2nd top scoring side in that period for instance (actual statistic). In fact only 5 of the 30 sides you mention have scored 40 goals or more. Rovers have 50.
Rovers have also got the 5th best goal difference out of the 30 sides.
Only half of those 30 sides has won 10 or more games. Rovers are one of those.
Rovers have scored the most goals away from homes out of any of the sides.

 

I got the stat from sky sports, I certainly did not just make it up.

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Nope, it’s not baseless to need your best players back in order to meet your potential. I genuinely believe we will get in the playoffs, yes.

SG and BB haven’t been good enough and IF we fail I believe their inability to effect games will be the sword TM lands on.

Rothwell on the left of a 3 man midfield has been a revelation this season. But even if you take the ‘myth’ out, how do write off the absence of Ayala, Trav, Dack and Arma who would probably get in any team in the division? 

I didnt deny that you need your best players available to hit your potential. I just remain unconvinced that the potential of this squad of players is top 6.

Not sure if any of those get in "any team" in the division, thats a huge call. Rothwell and revelation is beyond premature.

54 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Lads, if you need any direction on what football men think just listen to O’Neill and dare I say it Cook tonight.

Dack, Arma, Trav and Ayala get in any team in that division and are currently ALL injured. No team on the planet could thrive in that situation. 

I think Kaminski and Rothwell have been as bigger losses as those above based on form this season.

Anyone expecting us to ‘crack on’ with those abstractions is dreaming....get 75% of those back and we’ll be a completely different proposition. 

This has been the case for well over a year, we will be different if this that and the other happens and it is never ending. If the squad is fully fit, if Dack comes back, if we take our chances, if we fix the defence, if our 12m duo stop impersonating clowns. Do you genuinely think we will be near the play offs? There is no evidence at all, its all baseless hope.

You also said that Gallagher and Brereton needed to step up this season. Surely tonight was the perfect chance to step upand highly frustrating and worrying that they were again so out of their depth?

Rothwell has barely ever done anything, hes a myth who now hes been injured has turned into a key player.

Mowbray cannot be given a free pass for that horrible, dismal performance as much as there is an element of sympathy around the absentees. There are plenty of controllables that contributed to such a bad performance, one that cannot be celebrated at all. No chances of note at all, literally no shots in the second half. The usual suspects making the night to be a success in the circumstances, no chance.

The main thing is the obvious thing, 12m worth of shit. Can anyone accept the challenge to name a striker in the league that is worse than either of those? With Armstrong lethal in front of goal their incompetence is not a major issue when he plays, without him and Dack we needed them 2 to at least offer something and they were absolutely hopeless. Perhaps an indicator as to why Gallagher is not trusted centrally as much as he is even worse wide, touch of a donkey, and Brereton was no better. These 2 expensive mistakes will at some point signal the end of Mowbray and as soon as Armstrong inevitably goes there is reason to fear.

Set pieces are a good barometer of the manager and again they were embarassing. All short, all disorganised, all totally wasted. We had no attacking threat so surely use the set pieces to get something into the box.

I have been told that Rothwell has been such a miss for us, his second half performances can be added to the majority of appearances that he has made and donr absolutely nothing. Dolan looked again like a little boy lost, Elliott was really quiet again, Holtby again achieved nothing and Trybull can be rather ponderous, a major upgrade on Evans? Not so far.

Of course the main positive is the defence even if the defending was very last ditch. Pears made a couple of good saves although he may aswell stand outside the penalty box from corners such is his lack of presence.

We have to win on Saturday, our start has been really poor and we cant just write games off to hide behind injuries.