roversfan99

18 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Your first sentence makes a lot of sense as it certainly wasn't solely his fault but the second is irrelevant. We're talking about his performance against Bristol City, not previously. He has "Credit in the bank" of course...but what's that got to do with discussing his performance in this one game?

Armstrong being greedy is fine, he's our main striking outlet. But today he just wasted possession time and again with next to no chance of scoring, while his teammates had sprinted up to support the attack.

I totally agreed that he was incredibly poor, no doubting that.

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The glass ceiling is an imaginary construct that has been labelled on here. We were unlucky last night. I wouldn't say we looked like the players were aware of a glass ceiling. Holtby was poor and Rothwell only showed flashes. Douglas wasteful from set pieces. Armstrong, we have discussed. 

I believe we will come good this season and have a real rattle at staying in the play off places 

I dont necessarily think it is a psychological barrier, I am just not sure that between the manager and the players that we have enough to ever become genuine contenders for the play offs unless something changes. Its not imaginary, its just a way of basically saying that we never take that step and get into the top 6, our highest peak is "one result away."

Holtby and Rothwell perhaps sum us up more than anyone. On their day a match for most midfielders in the division, but their day is not nearly often enough.

We often seem competitive against bigger teams yet always end up on the wrong side of the result. A point comes when luck isnt the deciding factor for that.

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ayala has been good. Much better than Mulgrew defensively. Trybull better than Evans as well. Kaminski is class. 

Douglas isn't playing great, but that's football-it's not an exact science how quickly players play into form  

Ayala was an exciting signing but I dont think he has "been good," he has been mainly injured, and looked really rusty up until an impressive backs to the wall display at Brentford and then he was solid yesterday but not great for the all important goal. Mulgrew is not a suitable benchmark for the standard of a Championship defender.

Trybull has again been disappointing. Kaminski undoubtedly a very shrewd addition.

26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He isn't immune to criticism. This team are creating bag loads of chances for him. Last night was a disgrace. Some of the shots he took on you wouldn't see the best players in the world doing it once or twice a game, let alone how many times he did. His teammates are fuming I would say. Put himself before the team BIG STYLE, so I would certainly level blame at him. His goals coring record prior to that, or as you call it "credit in the bank" is irrelevant. He was more to blame for us not scoring last night than anyone else. First goal and we win that game and break through your "glass ceiling".

We used to beat the top teams and perform badly against teams we should beat.  That to me was raising our game for certain games, but not for others. Now we seem capable of dispatching teams lower down the league and there are fine margins between all the teams in contention for the play-offs. We came out the wrong side last night, but plenty to be positive about. 

Of course, he played crap last night and I agree with that. He wasnt solely to blame for defeat but he fell well, well below the brilliant standards he has set. He is on 14 goals, our second highest is 3 so he is critical to our chances.

The problem with the glass ceiling is that we NEVER break through it, ever. We always fall short, fine margins are mentioned but sadly I cannot see any logic in expecting us suddenly to fall on the right side of those fine margins. It is always ifs and buts, reasons and excuses, and forlorn hopes that we are on the cusp of a run long enough to break into the top 6.

The performing v big teams and not v smaller ones was a bit of a myth. For the last 2 seasons up we rarely beat the big teams, we did have a couple of noticeable and embarrassing losses v relegation fodder but we tended to pick up much of our points v mid table/lower mid table teams.

To be fair, that pedigree for Douglas is made up of a spell at Wolves 4 years ago when he played as a wing back, so in a different position. For Leeds he rarely played so he wasnt a regular left back for either promotion winning side, and is now 31 having spent much of his recent career injured, so there are certainly question marks.

That being said, Bell is proven to be well short so there isnt much alternative.

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's not simple anymore. We have players like Johnson, Ayala and Lenihan who I would describe as having those characteristics. Travis to come back in too.

The reason we lost last night was Armstrongs complete over indulgence. I hope he put his hand up after the game or the rest of the team had a chat with him. It's not good enough. I have never seen anything like it. You wouldn't see Ronaldo do it. 

It was a tight away game, we narrowly lost. Not a time for over reaction. 

Its incredibly unfair to blame Armstrong solely for the defeat. He played poorly but he is the top scorer in the league, he has more credit in the bank considering how prolific he has been this season and in 2020.

Its not a reaction to a solitary loss, its the reaction to a loss that is very much a further example of 2 massive problems that we have, we cannot seem to get results v the better teams, and we can never seem to break through that glass ceiling and get into the top 6.

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Sky shown some attacking stats which shown Rovers rank 1st in total goals in Championship, 2nd in total shots, 1st in shots on target, 2nd in touches in opposition box per game and 2nd in possession won in final 3rd. 

For Me, Nyambe and Ayala should have defended that cross much better than we did. But attacking wise we were the better side. Another day, Arnstrong scores a hat trick and we win 3 or 4 nil..

Its not a particularly good sign that we have scored the most goals yet are only 10th. Not the hallmarks of an efficient side.

3 or 4 nil? I dont really remember any chances where I was shocked that we didnt score, most of our chances were speculative at best.

Just now, neophox said:

Is Derrick our answer at left back ahead of Bell and Douglas? Can't..

Neither is the answer. Douglas the lesser of two evils and maybe Bell's stock is going up without him playing. When he does again people may remember his incompetence.

6 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

What a load of cry-babies.

 

We could have won this game, but we played a good side who have a far more settled team than us and they nicked it near the end.

 

What other fans slag off the league's top scorer?  

Far more settled team? They have their first choice 2 CMS, their main 2 CBs, their main attacking midfielder and both full backs out.

Could have would have should have. We didnt, again when a top 6 place was available and v a decent side. If you come onto the forum after that happens surely you expect frustration?

3 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Brentford, Bristol and Norwich - two of which away.

Its a good week on the back of a good run.

Sky falling in again after 1 loss in 8?

Big if that we beat Norwich but even so, it would be an average week. We need to stop viewing games v teams around us with an inferiority complex.

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Very tight margins though. Very little in tonight's game. Harsh to not draw, but that's how it goes sometimes

Thats how it goes all the time if we either can get into the top 6 or play a decent side. If it was once or twice then maybe.

A case of de ja vu, a predictable and inevitable defeat when we can get into the top 6 and v a top half side. I dont even think it is us "bottling it" we just dont have the consistent ability to pick up points at a top 6 level.

I dont see how anyones minds can focus on the positives when the blow is repeated again and again. It goes against logic to expect anything to change. We keep "unluckily" being edged out by the better teams. When it keeps happening you start to suspect it isnt coincedence.

For all the talk about deserving to lose or not deserving, we didnt create much in the way of serious chances and theres not many if any chances where I think we were really unlucky, most of the chances were speculative at best.

The subs were totally bizarre at the end, taking off Gallagher when we started to go more direct. Felt like he felt obliged to make them.

Just now, J*B said:

I’ve just looked on the Bristol Twitter - they’re all saying it’s a strong team and are delighted with it?

Presumably given the players they have remaining then. They have Da Silva, Baker, Mawson and Sessegnon all out at the back, Williams and Walsh are key midfielders out, Weimann is out and Paterson (their best attacking midfielder) is out.

Decent team, hopefully Armstrong is central and Elliott right and he doesnt try to overcomplicate it with false 9 nonsense.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/teams/first-team/midfielder/joe-rothwell2/

I didnt realise and unsure if it has been mentioned but on Rothwell we do have the option of an extra year. I dont think that he will have loads of interest from vultures circling anyway but I suppose there is a bit less comparative urgency with him compared to Nyambe and Holtby.

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Some interesting discussion, which I feel is somewhat tainted by the fact that Venkys are to managerial recruitment what Nero was to good taste! 

FWIW my thoughts are - no way is TM a great manager. Good is stretching it. His plusses are a promotion with us, some exceptional signings - Dack, Armstrong, Kaminski - and having us looking up the table rather than downwards. Gradual improvement in terms of finishes is also is a plus, ad if the pace is frustrating (which I find it is) the consolation is at least we are heading in the right direction. Also not being an incompetent turd is a big plus from the chap too. Although the fact this qualifies as a positive quality shows how low Venkys has set the bar.

His negatives have included several horrific runs, and some good but not great attempts, for example getting relegated - it was a bold effort but not quite enought, getting promoted second when he could have been champions. Add in that he is slow to learn from mistakes, some horrible winless runs, and he hasn't spent big money well on occasions and you see a picture of a far from great manager. Too many mistakes and negatives to be a great manager. 

Factor in his time outside of Ewood and it paints a similar picture - decent job at Boro, did well at West Brom but that was 10 years ago, and horrific stints at Celtic and Coventry. Again, not the record of a great manager. Where's the tropheys? Where's the teams punching above their weight? It's a decent track record no doubt about it but it's hardly great. 

I think when constrasted with other managers internally and externally it highlights it all the more. If there's arguments TM has underperformed with Rovers at times, then what Bowyer did was nothing short of treasonous with his squad. Rhodes, Gestede, Duffy, Hanley, Baptiste, Olsson, Marshall, Cairney, Robinson, King is the backbone of a championship winning squad and we scarcely touched playoffs. Comparatively TM is getting much more Rovers than any other manager under Venkys has.

The flip side is when you compare him to the likes of Warnock. More promotions, more recent promotions, teams doing better in a quicker amount of time, and more teams punching above their weight. Imo one of Warnock's greatest achievements was getting Rotherham to comfortable safety. When you compare the two, it cannot be said objectively that TM is better on any assessment criteria of success - in fact clearly the opposite.

So whilst I'm grateful we don't have a clown in charge, to me TM is just a decent manager. Unfortunately under the loons that's as good as it gets.     

The thing with Bowyers' squad is probably due to a mixture of financial restrictions (especially compared to Mowbray) some bizarre signings and some strange loyalty to poor players he inherited was very much either really good or dreadful. Rhodes and Gestede were the best strikeforce in the League undoubtedly and in Conway and Marshall when both were fit we had 2 really effective wingers. Hanley and Duffy grew into an effective partnership at CB too. But we had some totally incompetent players in the starting 11, he couldnt look past Lowe and Williamson in the centre of midfield which meant that we probably had a bottom 3 standard central midfield. At full back we often had Spurr who was at best ok, and RB was a bit of a problem position, Baptiste was out of position and uncomfortable there and Henley/Kane werent up to it, and then in goal, Bowyer had Robinson post blood clot when he could barely move, and then had some real trouble replacing him with Kean, Eastwood and Steele all below par. So I think even in our best side whilst having maybe 5 or 6 players right at the top end of the league in terms of quality, there were at least 3 who were probably not up to the standard of the Championship full stop. Of course you need more than 11 which is when a further problem arose, we had the likes of Chris Taylor, Varney, Chris Brown etc who were all miles short of Championship standard.

He definitely did underachieve though with the squad he built.

1 hour ago, DE. said:

TM and Bowyer are more or less on equal standing for me at the moment. I don't really blame TM for our relegation, and I very much doubt we would have been relegated had he been in charge the entire season. Almost all of the blame goes to Venky's and Coyle for that. The squad was not so bad it was doomed to go down, TM proved that when he got here. We were moulded into relegation candidates by a terrible manager who should have been nowhere near the club.

Bowyer probably had more wiggle room in terms of wage budget, whilst TM has had more to play with in terms of transfer budget. I'm not sure how those would balance out if compared, but I get the feeling they wouldn't be too far apart. 

To leapfrog Bowyer, TM needs to do what Bowyer could not and at the very least get us into the playoffs. Whether we were ultimately promoted or not, a playoff finish would be empirical evidence showcasing a clear progression from Bowyer's time here.

 

Im not convinced that Bowyer had an advantage in regards to wages to be honest, I dont recall many high earners signing under him and indeed we had quite a few high earners with big egos dented his chances of a clean rebuild. Mowbray has been able to sign Gallagher, Holtby, Johnson, Ayala etc, all senior players who will be on very competitive wages im sure.

I think the main advantage that Mowbray has in regards to judging over Bowyer (aside from the promotion although a direct comparison is impossible as Bowyer kept us up initially) is that whilst both hit a glass ceiling, we saw Bowyer then stagnate away from that, although he was under the difficulties of an embargo and a mass sale. Mowbray has an asterix next to his name because we dont know what will come next, and whether we will achieve a top 6 placing before any potential stagnation.

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

A lot of which he has manufactured himself by how he has integrated younger payers into the squad. I suppose both managers played the hands they were dealt at the time and did so pretty well so far. I think Mowbray edges it based off the fact Bowyer had Rhodes and Gestede. His budget was tight I will admit, but Mowbray found the likes of Dack and Rothwell.  Both managers are well up the list in the Venkys era.

We are at the stage now where a win or two can put us right up there, it's psychological. Hopefully we break through 

Bowyer inherited Rhodes and a couple of decent defenders but he signed Gestede for a nominal fee which was akin to Mowbray signing Dack/Armstrong. Rothwell for me has yet to fully announce himself with end product to be a signing to warrant loads of praise, the likes of Conway, Cairney and Marshall were far more productive.

I do wonder how much is psychological and how much is down to quality both on behalf of the players and managers to never be able to consistently get the points required to push into the top 6. Hopefully whatever it is, it is a glass ceiling that will soon smash.

Would agree that even though you are reliant on luck and circumstance to an extent in what you inherit (the youth teams in Bowyers era where not as healthy as they are now) you do have to nurture the youngsters and Mowbray has done that. Lenihan had already established himself by then but is still very important, Nyambe has definitely progressed although you could question his non selection at times and also his contractual situation, Raya is a big question mark considering how he was sold for cheap but he was given a couple of seasons as number 1 and neither Rankin Costello nor Buckley have yet done enough to establish themselves. They are all plusses but the main one that you can not question is Travis who suddenly became absolutely key.

In thr Venkys era aside from Big Sam of course they are the only 2 managers with any credibility for sure. Between Kean, Coyle, Berg, Appleton and Lambert there isnt a good manager between them.

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

Bowyer got a team (in first and second stint) with Rhodes in the team, at the time this was akin to getting a team with the best goal scorer in the league.

Tony Mowbray signed possibly 2020/21s top scorer in 2018 for 1.5/3m, and whilst thats only one example, its a similar story across the squad, as Dream’s points out - development thats worth recognition.

Armstrong and Dack were fantastic signings but Mowbray has had loads more money to spend compared to Bowyer. As mentioned Bowyer also signed a 20 goal a season striker for a minimal fee in Gestede, and whilst he did inherit Rhodes but he was very much the exception in a squad full of ageing/no mark and useless rubbish, many of whom were on big contracts and with seemingly poisonous. So whilst Mowbray didnt inherit a great striker like Rhodes, the overall squad was leaner, it wasnt saddled with egotistical high earning liabilities and was easier to inherit. That is my main point really.

Bowyer took us to 8th/9th (Mowbrays limit so far himself) and then with an embargo things began to somewhat understandably unravel and it became clear that he had missed his chance.

3 hours ago, JBiz said:

They’ve managed in different scenarios - for example Bowyer inherited a good albeit lopsided squad and spent what little money he had really well - he was a good manager for us at the time, and I was surprised when he was potted but relieved (at the time) Lambert came in.

Lambert took us backwards, even though I rate him as decent. That’s how bad the club was being run at that time, as the better players started to leave too.

After that utter donut gobshite got involved, the scenario TM inherited was a much different proposition to GB. Was unlucky not to keep us up. The turnaround since has been excellent, and I agree too that he’s needed decent backing from the owners to do that.

I would rate Mowbray above Bowyer but in regards to what they inherited, you are doing Bowyer a disservice. He inherited a squad full of ageing players with no use and quite a few big egos on big contracts who it took a while for us to shift and pay off, Best, Murphy, Etuhu etc. 

Ultimately Mowbray's task was slightly more difficult (the draw at Burton took us 2 points from 21st with 14 games to go, so rhetoric about his points per game aside, it was not mission impossible and ultimately he failed) but much of the deadwood he inherited was about to go out of contract (Greer, Brown, Lowe, Guthrie) and he didnt have any bad influences in the way that Bowyer did. Mowbray then with not much in the way of useless shite still knocking around causing unrest/draining the finances, then successfully managed to get us back up again and deserved kudos for that. He has in more time still failed as of yet to get past that glass ceiling that Bowyer seldom managed to display any sign of being genuine top 6 contenders.

Mowbray had a much cleaner slate to work from in regards to the playing squad, as well as the bonus of a clutch of younger talented players.

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-contracts-update-mowbray-19419343

Same spiel with excuses rather than confidence. The cost of replacement surely exceeds the cost of signing them.

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The issue with Nyambe is that if we had managed the situation proactively and properly then we would have him tied down to a 2-4 year contract right now.

The conversation about selling him then becomes radically different, because we would stand to rake in some decent cash which could arguably be used to reinvest elsewhere. At that point we could discuss the financial and sporting merits of offloading him.

As it stands we will be forced to sell him for no reason other than we will be desperate to avoid him leaving on a free transfer come the summer. Footballing decisions go out of the window and whatever small fee we get will be nigh on impossible to get better than him for.

It is a failure of strategy because it is likely to cost the club several million pounds in a transfer fee. We have allowed this situation to creep up on us just like we have with JRC, Rothwell and Dack. 

The owners should be sorting this out yet they seem quite relaxed about the situation.

Then again they let Josh King and Ben Marshall do similar so must not be bothered about it.

I just hope people remember these things when we get the FFP excuses and sob stories from Waggott about having no money.

Totally agree with your points surrounding the mismanagement on the owners part around contracts. 

With Nyambe though, I am unconvinced how much money we could even make on him with 6 months left on his deal. If he leaves at the end of his contract and stays in this country we would still get a tribunal fee so I do wonder whether there would be much difference between the 2 amounts.

2 hours ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

I personally expect the Venkys to have a real go in January as long as we are still within touch of the top 6. They will smell the financial benefits of getting promoted. I wouldn't be surprised to see them fund a couple of decent signings. 

I would imagine it would take a bid close to £25 million to tempt them to sell Arma, if that happens we can't ignore that sort of money. If that doesn't happen I would say we'll see about 3-5 million spent on incomings. 

I can see Nyambe leaving. I have a funny feeling Fulham may be the club too. I really hope this doesn't happen but if it does then I expect a quality right back to come in. 

As long as we can trigger clauses to extend Rothwell, Dack and Holtby's contracts I'll be happy. Financially selling Nyambe wouldn't be the end of the world. Out of all the sellable assets we have I'd choose him, as long as there is another right back in place. I still believe JRC is Tony's ideal wing back. I think he sees him as a TAA type player. 

After the last window, I have complete faith in Tony to get this right. 

As far as Kipre coming in, I wouldn't touch him. He made it quite clear he didn't want to be part of this project at the start of the season and I'd want somebody who will wear the shirt with pride. 

If we didn't sell or sign anyone I wouldn't be too bothered. Contracts are priority number 1 right now! 

The future is so bright at the moment and I trust Tony to keep it going! 

I think the idea of them splashing out on a January spree goes against any logic based on what has happened in the past. I suspect that they arent particularly in touch with where we are in the table anyway and even when we first came up and were just outside the play offs, they had no interest in adding to the squad. Especially with COVID and the ramifications of that, any money spent in January would be a pleasant but unexpected surprise.

Even if you looked at it logically, we have less than a 100% chance of a top 6 place in which we would then have a 25% chance of promotion, so it would be a long shot if we were merely "in touch" with the play offs.

The priority has to be as you touch on getting players signed up on new deals, there seems to be a typical delay between Mowbray and Venkys to get these contracts done which as always is a worry. Nyambe is one of the key ones, any fee we could get for him with 6 months left would be fairly nominal I would suggest, Rankin Costello is shaky as a full back and Nyambe is a big player for us and for whom a deal should have been sorted long ago. Unless he goes abroad we probably may aswell keep hold of him anyway as a tribunal will still guarantee us a fee should he want to leave. Holtby may depend on where he wants to live obviously with the recent birth of his child, Rothwell and Rankin Costello I cant imagine many other teams have seen enough to be overly monitoring at the moment but it would be prudent to get them signed up for longer. Dack (year long extension assumed to be used) and especially Armstrong I suspect would be best advised to allow their contracts to run at the moment rather than commit from their own point of view although an offer to them wouldnt go amiss.

Kipre I suspect would be a difficult deal to do financially, but this idea that he "wouldnt wear the shirt with pride" is a little nonsensical. He seemingly chose a Premier League side probably offering him more money and a chance at the big time over a Championship side coming off a season in which we finished 11th. Any of us would have chose the same had we no vested interest in either side and for me the widespread bitterness towards him for making that choice is a little strange. He made the logical choice and at the moment it isnt working out for him but it doesnt say anything about his attitude or committment, he made the choice we all would had we a shred of ambition and sadly for him it hasnt worked as he would have liked, perhaps not aided by the left field signing of Branislav Ivanovic towards the end of the window.

5 hours ago, philipl said:

If they go 3-5-2 we are in for a war of attrition.

I think they tried that v Brum and failed.

Usually Bristol City have tried to play open attacking football so they are not that used to packing midfield. They certainly were open and attacking against Reading and were picked off very easily. Had Reading been as lethal with their chances as they were against us they would have hit Bristol City for 8.

That said Bristol City are not used to 3-5-2, we were not used to playing 4-4-1 but it worked second half with different combinations of nine players who probably hadn't practised as nines on the training ground.

Incidentally, did I correctly read Buckley plays right back in ten v ten practise games on Fridays? In which case perhaps I am wrong about that.

Stream of consciousness post here.

Looks like we have to be prepared for facing the total unknown on Wednesday apart from Nakki Wells.

At least Mowbray can concentrate on setting us up to win without over fretting about the opposition.

Bristol City have played with 3 at the back quite regularly in the last 18 months, they had a winger in Niclas Eliasson who was a regular source of assists but could not get into the team often due to the 3 at the back/wing back system that they play. Not sure where the idea comes from that we are about to face the unknown.

I much preferred the feeling of watching a game in front of the crowd, it felt like it meant a little bit more again and it was less of a case of going through the motions. It also made the late equaliser a little sweeter. It is a shame IMO that we wont see fans watching our games again until February, well hopefully especially at Ewood we will.

You look at the fouls we committed, Lenihan's first was as clear a professional foul as you will see and once the foul was given for the second the red was always coming. Douglas and Rothwell also committed cynical fouls and Kaminski was talking ages with his goal kick and quite clearly had no arguments when the yellow was brandished, the only one to which any controversy could be attached was Johnson's.

What does that prove? No doubt that Mowbray would prefer to get him tied down to a new deal but all that 2 month old article says is that Mowbray "doesnt envisage any problems" which is hardly a firm assurance and indeed doesnt factor in the players wishes, until he has signed a new deal anything can be said, Hoilett was signing within 24 hours, words mean nothing.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

So we're all still adamant that Chris Hughton's a better manager than Mowbray. Baffling me. Hughton's football is prehistoric in 2020, at least Mowbray puts out a team to attack. Let's see if Hughton manages anything with Forest, I highly doubt he's going to. They've got some top players for this level and I think he should be doing a lot better with Grabban, Taylor, Lolley, Samba & more at his disposal. 

I don't understand this modern day phenomenon whereas if you dont press, pass it out from the back and try to keep the ball, it is assumed that the tactic is outdated. Amidst the media there is this desperation to paint out that there is a correct way to play football, the correct way in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the 00s, the 10s, now and forever is the one that puts the most points on the board. Would you swap our position with Norwich, we have scored 10 more goals and have 6 less points.

For all of Mowbrays fancy new tactics, his flying wing backs, his 4-3-3, his box midfielders, his inside forwards, his false 9's etc etc, the only time we know that they have actually worked is when we actually get into the top 6, if we fail to do that he wont get any extra kudos from me regarding "trying to play the right way" because the right way is not necessarily always the most attractive way to the neutrals. 

Hughton has started slowly at Forest and indeed he may not even be successful long term but people suggest and big him up because he has a track record of achieving promotions and top 6 finishes in the last decade, so based on probability his appointment is more likely than most managers to achieve success. Same with Warnock. The nonsense about "prehistoric" tactics is further disproved by the fact that teams he has managed have scored more goals than before or after his appointment.

Nyambe definitely should never have been benched for Bennett and his contract situation is a symptom of that delay we all know about that hinders decision making at our club, but best RB in the league? Max Aarons is the best RB in the league, Nyambe is a good player but hes not the best RB in the league.

58 minutes ago, JoeH said:

That's a completely different hypothetical though. What was put forward when Hughton got to Forest was that they'd reach the play-offs this year and easily finish above Rovers. Now we're opening that up to reaching the play-offs before Rovers do across any season.

I think people overestimated Hughton and they continue to underestimate Tony Mowbray. If I was a Preston fan, I'd be looking at Mowbray and what he's done with Rovers this year, and I'd be thinking, yeah he's a decent manager. Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

It's the bias of what we don't have. Hughton looked attractive because he's something different. But his football is boring & defensive, and it doesn't reap rewards unless managing a top side.

The main doubt with Mowbray yet also the reason that he splits people is because we are always within the middle ground, we peak a couple of points outside the play offs having never at any stage demonstrated that we are genuine contenders, its always "when we have a fully fit squad" or "once we put a run of wins together." Conversely, we never seem to fall away enough to warrant a crisis button being pressed, and of course we havent got that benchmark of previously having been in the top 6 which would create a feeling of regression and having gone backwards. So he certainly isnt a bad manager, we are in a middle ground (which cannot last forever) whereby we are unsure whether that run of wins to propel us into the top 6 will ever come or indeed whether it will just fall into stagnation.

I am unsure as to why you have mentioned Preston, but their fans want their manager out now when he has gone one further (with far less money) and actually have spent quite a few weeks in the top 6 in the last couple of years. They have actually been genuine contenders spending time in the top 6, something that always has been beyond us and something that we have to prove that we can do. Obviously the main difference is that their current position shows that they have gone backwards slightly but again, I am unsure as to the relevance of mentioning Preston in your argument of Hughton/Warnock v Mowbray.

Regarding Hughton's past record, he took over Brighton mid way through a season in which they finished 20th and scored 44 goals, in the following 2 seasons he finished 3rd with 72 goals and then 2nd with 74 goals, so your comments about him taking over a top side are flawed. He took over Birmingham once they had been relegated and also had Europa League fixtures to add to their schedule, and he finished 4th with 78 goals, the season following his illogical sacking, they finished 12th with Lee Clark scoring 15 goals fewer. Throw in a promotion at Newcastle and he has so much recent history of promotion and top 6 finishes since Mowbrays promotion at West Brom, that it is understandable that people look to his record and expect him to repeatedly perform similar achievements, no appointment is a guarantee but a manager with such a record is as likely as anyone. He fits the type of manager to which a lot of snobbery is attached to but his teams score plenty of goals and we were regimented and dull to watch to a neutral when we came up from League 1 but ultimately, who cared? No one.