roversfan99

I think that "hindsight is a wonderful thing" has seemingly lost its literal meaning. I know that I was not alone in willing Mowbray to sub Armstrong as soon as I saw him clutch his hamstring, not as something I only became wise to after the game, indeed Armstrong DIDNT tear his hamstring so it didnt go as badly as it could have done.

It was not the same situation but Travis got a serious injury after continuing having taken a knock on an area of pre existing injury.

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He wasn't the only player totally ineffective against Forest & Cardiff. He was taken out of the team, fine, but that doesn't mean he's fizzled out, it means he was taken out of the team. Hard to play well if you're not playing.

No I never said that others didnt also underperform but specifically to Dolan, he didnt have "one 6/10 performance" before being dropped. He had a couple of exciting cameos, one in which a needless skill led to Bournemouths winner, a decent start at Newcastle, 2 impressive starts with goals and then 2 (not 1) games in which he was invisible. His initial start had dipped, it had fizzled out. Thats why he was then not playing, and he has struggled to get involved in his 3 cameos since. So a mixed bag, but thats not crirical, hes shown far more promise and provided much more contribution though than we would have expected for a kid released by PNE and signed for the kids team.

Anyway, my main point was that with Dolan we can dip him in and out, off the bench etc, we cant do that at CB with the kids in that position.

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing with you. If he scores at Swansea and got us a point or 3 points you would be praising Mowbray wouldnt you. If Armstrong says he is fine then you take his word. 

He not out long term tho..

No it is not based on hindsight, I said at the time that I wanted him to come off. Not only would a serious injury be catastrophic but he was clearly hindered by it and wasnt his usual self.

I presume you want him to play tomorrow and to take the risk again? Or is that a different situation because Mowbray wont be playing him?

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I think a draw here.  Fletcher is a nice player, not sure he is fit

He's torn his hamstring.

Whether its warranted or not im not sure that criticism on a forum can be deemed "abuse."

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing

Armstrong is very crucial to us as he is best striker and finisher at the club. Time for Gallagher to step up and prove his worth

Its not, I was saying at the time that we needed to take him off, he didnt look right and I spent the game worrying that he was going to get seriously injured. It was a stupid risk because if he is out long term, we are fucked.

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Armstrong did the injury before the 10th minute according to what I have read. 

Armstrong staying on the pitch was vital to getting owt from the game on Saturday

But we didnt get anything.

Surely we should play him tomorrow again risking serious injury because he is just as crucial to us getting anything then?

To be fair, Travis is a tough tackler and Johnson certainly isnt a playmaker, he cant pass wind yet he often sits in front of the back 4.

3 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

The problem with having that mentality is that Mowbray wont be here for ever and it is essentially accepting that we arent progressing too.

I certainly agree with your statement that is is small time to have such a stance although I dont think Potter is the best example, he did an unremarkable job at Swansea (which Cooper did better than) and he hasnt improved Brighton on Hughtons time there. Fools people thinking they play out from the back.

As you say Reading have managed to think outside the box even though I would not necessarily agree that their side is "nowhere near better than ours." They have some very good players throughout their team, Rafael Cabral is a keeper as good as most in the league, Moore and Morrison are very accomplished CBs at this level, their full backs are young and talented, Ejaria and when fit Swift are very talented, Olise is a real wonderkid and Meite heads a very decent stable of attackers. Im not convinced that our squad is better.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Dolan's tailed off because he's no longer getting serious game time. He had one 6/10 game after a train of 8's and 9's and was immediately dropped. I don't blame the player for that personally.

Im not sure about that, he had a few bright cameos where he looked promising without doing much substantial. He then played v Wycombe when he looked really good, not quite as good v Derby but still dangerous and got another goal then totally ineffective v Forest and Cardiff (with a few skills in counterproductive places ) and correctly taken out of the team. Im sure his time will come again.

"Financially, things are tight and we had to fill in some positions and Stewart knew that pretty early. We needed a centre-half, we needed a goalie, we needed a left-back and we needed certain positions and we couldn't spend the money until we filled the positions needed."

Seems that Downing was very much down the list of priorities.

26 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Not trying to discredit him at all.

If you are trying to sell your house and you are asking for say £100k and no one is prepared to pay it then have you clearly not inflated its worth in your own mind?

At the end of the day, the value of anything is only what someone is prepared to pay.

Calling him a mercenary is somewhat discrediting him, especially when none of us know what happened in terms of any negotiations.

7 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Neither do I to be honest, certainly not against Boro. I'd play Magloire against a Coventry or a Wycombe but those games are gone and won now. I don't think it's fair to write off a player as just a kid after two games, given we've seen just this year alone what "kids" can do for a side in Dolan and Elliott.

In them games, Lenihan and Williams were totally fine so no need. The only reason to go beyond that senior trio of them 2 and Ayala is if injury forces our hand. We cant be dipping kids in v weaker opposition, its a risk that we shouldnt be taking. I am not writing Magloire off, hes very young. Loan spells would really help him.

To be fair, Dolans immediate rawness and impact in his first few games seems to have tailed off slightly, but he is in an attacking player, so you can use him sparingly and in rotation. Defenders can also mature later on. You cant do that with your defence. Elliott is a player that Liverpool were reluctant to lend out so thats a different kettle of fish.

Just now, JoeH said:

There's nowhere near enough evidence for that, he's had two games for us and done well in one, and badly in another. Needs more chance than that, Hayden Carter got more than that and he's nothing like as promising as Tyler.

Theres a kid with 3 promotions and 80 plus league appearances under his belt and id even be reluctant to chuck him in. You dont want to chuck kids in the heart of defence in a poor run of form.

Just now, JoeH said:

In his only Rovers senior app he won the header to set up our penalty against Wigan to go 1-0 up.. and against Leicester he looked comfortable against, let me check my notes, Jamie Vardy...

In a friendly. That is the key word. If he did it against Vardy in a competitive match rather than going through the motions in a glorified kick about, fair play.

He played at Sheffield Wednesday and looked totally lost against limited but physical players. No shame, hes a kid and needs a loan spell or 2.

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Those that do are, IMO, nothing more than mercenaries.

A labourer is worthy of his hire and I think it's fair to assume there were no takers for Downing based upon a likely inflated value of his own worth.

So, we get a player who is weeks behind in terms of fitness and match fitness and who, IMO, only wants to come because he's no other options.

I also think time caught up with Downing in the latter part of last season and, IMO, his legs have gone.

Think this will prove to be a signing we regret.

Again, massive assumptions seemingly to discredit him as a person. "A likely inflated value of his own worth!"

He said that he probably would have retired had he not signed here again.

6 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

I'm not really impressed with this. We have plenty of mediocre midfielders, or youngsters trying to establish themselves in the team so an old player wasting wages isnot what we need. What can he offer that Johnson, Buckley, Chapman, Lyons, Evans, Bennett.......... can't? 

Downing was very good last season. Assuming that age hasnt caught up with him, he is very much around the first team. Lyons has never played a minute for us, Bennett is out for months and not up to it, Johnson was massively inferior to Downing last year, Evans is very limited, Chapman is a winger and Buckley isnt ready.

As previously mentioned, the timing is the problem.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not a Mowbray type of player..

What is a Mowbray type player? 

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Time for other players to step up and score..

Gallagher must play up front in his place. Vital

Definitely. If Gallagher is on the wing there is no excuse.

I expect Elliott false 9, Brereton left, Gallagher right. Hope not.

Armstrongs injury is very minor but he will be rested tomorrow. Ayala and Kaminski have minor injuries that seem to drag on and on.

Downing wont be available either when we need him adding further question marks to the timing of the signing.

Tomorrows team line up is going to be a bomb scare and Boro will be licking their lips. The 12m duo need to finally step up and show what they are about. No ifs and buts.

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

IMO, Downing had no other offers so rocks up at Ewood to gross a few hundred thousand pounds - nice work for some!

I would have told him to do one.

We want players who only genuinely want to play for Rovers and not because, IMO, no other fecker wants them.

IMO, another crass move - smacks of desperation from an increasingly desperate manager.

Also, would think he has to be at least a month away from any sort of match fitness

  

Where has the assumption come from that the player has been waiting all this time for a better offer?

Mowbray said that he wasnt a priority and a deal he might return to if there was remaining money. To make this out to be a greedy player settling for what he can get is totally unfair and unprovoked.

7 minutes ago, Swanson said:

Will he even be among the 18 when everyone is fit? Can't see where he is going to play..

I would say so yeah. Hes a better left back than Bell so he leapfrogs him. Hes a better midfielder than Buckley, Davenport, Evans, I would say Rothwell, im not convinced that even Holtby is more effective than him.

Obviously the key is that a fully fit squad is a luxury that teams cannot expect this season. Making the timing of this deal baffling considering our recent run of form with inferior midfielders playing.

He was superb last year, technically our best player for sure, created miles more in the way of chances, good delivery guaranteed and would have started the last 6 or 7 games had he been here and been a notable improvement.

The only thing awful about the signing is the timing of it.

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

My reply to.your question @roversfan99

Wrong move by Mowbray and Rovers. 

Downing has no match fitness or pre season under him so how long will the take before he is ready? A month

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well clearly Downing didnt want to comment till now. 

As he ever been link any other club during being a free agent? 

Fair play for sticking to your guns.

Regarding Downing being unwilling to commit, that is a total assumption. Mowbray said that he wasnt a priority and that he would come back to the deal if there was any money left. As it is, points have been lost in the meantime.

I think that had it been done before the season, it would have been a very shrewd addition, he created chances like nobody else did last season and is probably our best technical player.

Just now, rovers11 said:

Great news and very well timed. We need his quality and experience at the moment, especially as it means Evans is pushed further down the pecking order. 

Very well timed? Surely very well timed would have been before this terrible run in which Buckley and Evans have toiled in there?

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Pears

Nyambe Lenihan Williams JRC

Holtby Trybull Rothwell

Elliott Brereton Dolan

Its a conundrum if Armstrong misses out but Gallagher has to play centrally for me, Brereton isnt a centre forward, that is for sure. He has absolutely no goalscoring instinct, he is always on his heels in the box never anticipating anything (Gallagher is hardly Gary Lineker but he will score a few goals at least and can win headers) and his attributes suit the wide role he now plays in.

58 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

                           Stergiakis

            Magloire  Wharton  Williams

Nyambe                                           JRC

                             Trybull

               Elliott                      Holtby

                   Brereton  Gallagher

As much as I appreciate the want in an ideal world to drop Lenihan (although for me Williams is getting away free of warranted criticism) the risk outweighs the reward until Ayala returns, Magloire didnt look like he could head a ball last time he was in the team and a minimal spell in League 1 doesnt change that really.