roversfan99

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks pal. 

I don't want my team on a stream. It isn't for me. Didn't mind the 9 games but it not long term. I rather 

I don't know if Waggott has certain amount of financial targets to bring into the clubs. I wouldn't be surprise at all if this is the case. 

Yes some people will be driven away. 

Me, my best friend and other people haven't renewed as we can't go to the games and we all arent interested in Ifollow watching. 

I could afford to buy one with using my savings but I don't want to spend it in case I'm off longer than after Christmas time. 

Last season, it felt like it was simply a case of just getting the fixtures done as a short term fix as you say to get the season done. Agree with that.

Even if he has got financial targets to meet, thats my issue, not even on a moral view, from a business perspective, he keeps getting it wrong.

I know this is oversimplifying it but say that one person refuses to buy out of principle of a price rise from £350 to £400, or even because that rise puts it out of their reach. To make up for that £350 that could have been gained had the prices been kept constant, Waggott would need to sell 7 season tickets at the elevated price just to cover that one missed sale. That doesnt even factor in the fact that either due to getting out of the habit or feeling aggrieved, that in FUTURE seasons that they wont return, thus there are short and long term financial implications to Waggott's incompetence.

At the moment, the club are quite reliant on goodwill from supporters who many like yourself will have suffered financially via furlough and/or redundancy to give up a larger proportion of their income to put towards a club, run by disinterested billionaire owners, and that goodwill will evaporate both by increasing prices and by using a guilt trip focused marketing campaign.

Also, whilst no one could even come close to defending the club regarding the lack of communication, many defended how long it took them to start selling the season tickets on the principle that they "didnt know what they were selling." One of my main counter arguments has been proven, that no matter when they felt that they did have enough clarity to put them on sale, they would never know due to the fragility of the situation what they were selling because there was always a large chance that even if fans were given the go ahead, that was quite likely to be reversed at any moment.

The club did the right thing in terms of splitting the value between links and deferred refunds. Ultimately, had season tickets been put on sale a month or 2 earlier, like at other clubs, at the same price, they would likely have made many more sales. The main argument was that they would have to shell out for refunds, that was never the case and they dont now, simply if anything they have just been paid deposits for NEXT season 12 months early to aid the cash flow and essentially guarantee future season ticket holders, as well as selling an ifollow season ticket and getting £230 from everyone there.

6 minutes ago, philipl said:

Staircases, entrances, bars, loos are all problems

To an extent but they are problems also evident in pubs and restaurants, in a much closer space. Entrances and staircases can be managed via staggered entry times, the toilets can have a one way queueing system, and the bars dont even need to open, or failing that, they could get rid of the alcohol in the stands ban. There would be a risk, like with anything, but it could be managed and it could be reduced.

The government have clearly appreciated the economic disaster that a total closure of pubs and restaurants will close, hence their clumsy attempt at compromise between risk reduction in terms of the virus and trying to help economically to keep these places open. But they dont also appreciate the financial disaster that not allowing supporters in will cause to football, clubs will go bust, massive job losses, not just players, and of course there is the mental health concerns caused by taking away a huge part of peoples lives, and also the community aspect of a football club to its city or town.

At least hunting is still allowed in large groups. Because its not all about self interest.

If theres no scope for minimal supporters in an outdoor stadium spread out, there certainly isnt for pubs, restaurants etc.

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

He does need to start scoring goals no doubt but at least his progressive runs are now leading to either goals or chances, he might not get the assist but his run played a major part in Armstrong's second I know only against Wycomb but I do think he is getting better with each game, he is far off looking a 7 million buy but iv been encouraged with what iv seen from him this season

I actually though that his pass to Rothwell forced him far wider than he needed to which Rothwell did especially well to cross so well, but he also played a part in the second goal so fair play on that. He is really clumsy but is developing a good habit of stumbling past players in the meantime, he did it at Newcastle on the far side and 2 Newcastle players ended up colliding I think.

I find myself in games really willing him on in particular, I was disappointed to see him come off on Saturday as I felt that him scoring would have been the icing on the cake.

The worry is that when the moment comes, he often spurns it. But there is improvement since lockdown, but plenty more needed.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes 4-3-3 formation. He isn't number 9 striker but a player who played on the wide in 4-3-3. 

He has improved this season here. Much better. 

That's fair point unless there is other reason we dont know about like minor injury or knock. We dont always know

This season has only been 4 games, and still no goals as of yet. Mixed bag v Doncaster, good play for the second goal but missed an open net. Poor v Newcastle, few good things v Wycombe but again no goal threat, and ineffective at Bournemouth.

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

 

Thanks for the analysis.

With Brereton though, ultimately for all of the "progressive runs" and "touches in pen area" until he starts offering a goal threat or really stamping his authority on games, progression may be fair in terms of the very, very low benchmark but it still wont be enough.

Its hard not to be desperate especially for him to really push on, and it is slightly better, but its nowhere near enough.

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I emailed the club about when shirts will be sent out after pre ordering them. I got a response within 15 minutes from Rovers retail manager who said they hopefully be recieving the shirts from Umbro Monday or Tuesday then they will get on with shirts being sent out as soon as possible for fans

No not at this stage sadly. Had my 1st meeting today and will have final meeting next Wednesday when I will find their final decision. So until I know their final decision I can't commit or not. I have a couple of job interviews already this week so Hopefully I hear back from them soon. 

I don't guilt tripped by the club as I can understand their position financially and the fact they want fans back into grounds tomorrow. I listened to number EFL Chairman today who needs fans back inside grounds asap otherwise they could go under. 

 I'm not fan of watching Rovers on Ifollow either. So I'm unsure whether I watch the links anyway. Its hard watching Rovers playing at Ewood Park when you been season ticket holder for over 20 years and never miss a home league game. 

Fair enough regarding your season ticket, and totally understand and can empathise with the inferior product on offer in terms of watching streams, and of course wish you well getting a job as soon as possible.

Not even necessarly on a moral level but as a economic decision, the idea of a price rise at this time is madness, the slight increase in the income from each individual season pass will be offset not only by the fans this season that will not buy as a result, but also people who may be driven away for good. Waggotts decisions have chipped away at all but the very hardcore, and now even they are being smashed away by his incompetence.

I just cant stomach the constant guilt tripping and the consistent angle that the club and in particular Waggott are coming from. It doesnt feel right when the prices have gone up in spite of the pandemic, and the club has "interested" billionaire owners who "never refuse to pay a cheque" yet they are trying to make working class people feel that it is their responsibility to pay for a service at a higher price that has so much jeopardy around it, at an increased price.

I am lucky that my employment has been unaffected, I do get value from the streams, I can afford the payment and I was willing to take the risk of not actually being able to attend.

Colchesters reaction is brilliant, ours just make things worse. 

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A lad from Brighton telling long standing, die hard fans (who have still put their money into the club without a product in the midst of a mega recession) that they are ‘ridiculous’,

Who is that? 

Yeah their squad looks really bloated although the likes of Freeman, McKenna, Arter, Christie and Taylor should be really shrewd additions.

They seem to be suffering a hangover from last year though.

Its easy to forget that many around the end of 2019 were calling for him to be dropped and was considered one of Mowbrays favourites, he had contributed very few goals/assists in his first 18 months in this league for us.

I cant see realistically how unless we go up or unless Armstrong suddenly dips in his goal tally, that he will be here next season.

I never buy the shirts so it doesnt affect me directly but have the club even communicated with those who have pre-ordered them about what is going on?

I can understand the desperate begging but equally it is hard to expect people know they are almost sure that they cant attend when they themselves are (moreso relative to their own needs, in terms of paying bills etc) struggling financially considering the price increase.

I have bought one, last week when there was still hope of attending. To be honest, I would want the links anyway (some wont be interested in behind closed doors) and I am not in a difficult financial position, my job can be done from home on full pay, so deferring my season ticket payment until next year isnt a big issue personally, but it is for many.

For example @chaddyrovers will you be getting or have you got a season ticket this season? Would understand either way considering your personal circumstances. If you havent, or equally if regular fans havent been able to, they shouldnt be guilt tripped really.

I think the approach of the Colchester chairman is very good and hopefully effective and I hope he has the support of the rest of the chairmen/women in the football league.

https://www.cu-fc.com/news/2020/september/robbies-letter-to-pm/

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you agree with my reply when I said he is suited to a wide role in the front 3 in 4-2-3-1 formation

Im guessing you mean 4-3-3 as per your comment? If so, then yeah if its in a 4-3-3 because he certainly isnt a central striker.

I think people are getting a little carried away making out as if he is being scapegoated or suggesting that it is anything but fair to point out his pitiful goal record. He has improved in his general play lately but he has received plenty of constructive criticism over his time here.

I thought it was a missed opportunity to leave him on for 90 minutes v a dismal 10 man Wycombe side, if ever there was a chance to get a goal.

The responses to this are interesting. Seems like the tables have turned in regards to fans perception of Brereton, mainly amidst younger fans:

"Been fantastic for the team this year, just needs to start adding goals and assists one of the first names on the teamsheet with his speed and the way he can carry the ball in transition"

"one of our best players start of this season, pre season and near the end of last season but people will be quick to blame him and say he's awful because the numbers say so"

"Gets scapegoated too often, easily been our top 5 players so far"

"overrated by fans who like him and massively underrated by fans who see 7mil and 2 goals in 2 seasons, reality is he’s average (if not slightly above) but still young and showing potential"

I think that he definitely has been a different player from the one that for a year and a half was embarrassingly off the pace. But until he starts being more effective in front of goal, the customary dribbles and occasional neat touches are not enough IMO to justify some of these comments. He definitely isnt scapegoated, until he scores a goal in a meaningful game, its tough to go overboard. If thats an obsession with stats, I dont agree. Goals are a little more than a stat.

I definitely think that he is not a central striker, just as much as he isnt a wide man in a 4-2-3-1. Probably as a 10 or as a wide striker in a 4-3-3 is his best position.

The pandemic leading to a reduced budget would be understandable, as it was they put us on the back burner and left the manager waiting ages for his budget because we clearly weren't a priority. Why anyone would defend them for it is beyond me.

There is very little evidence that they know "everything that is going on" or have a real strong passion for the club, they have attended more in cardboard form to be fair post lockdown than ever before.

Definitely seems to have been a change in Mowbrays comments since last Thursdays meeting too, maybe they have been spooked.

I never felt totally comfortable with Raya, all keepers make mistakes and behind a dreadful defence he made his fair share in that opening season. He improved when I watched him last season, yes the defence is better but also far less error prone and just looks more confident. Dont get any pleasure out of a move to Arsenal potentially not happening, I have no reason to wish any ill upon him. There was no reason for Mowbray to ever replace him with Leutwiler, that was bizarre.

That being said, the decision to sell Raya for cheap, loan Walton and buy Gallagher cannot really be defended.

Lets hope Kaminski is an upgrade, at the moment we are none the wiser really. Most of the shots he has faced have gone in, with only Fraser's one that I think he should have done better, and only one particularly meaningful save, the very good one at Bournemouth. Distribution seems decent and quick too, looks shaky at crosses. Hopefully he will get a second successive clean sheet.

If Kaminski is weak from crosses, as Raya was, one thing that may help him that Raya was often left without (think back to Rotherham away with Mulgrew and Rodwell at CB) is Lenihan AND Ayala hopefully both giving him more protection. 

21 minutes ago, Swanson said:

It is the same account yes, but it has some good info lately, especially in the lower leagues. Tought is just post it since there is no other rumours at all these days.

Absolutely. Definitely worth posting.

Would make no sense if we are scrapping with League 1 clubs for below average right backs.

Im sure that the twitter account that linked Travis to Coventry.

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

To what? £450 Riverside/BBEnd, £550 JW Upper?

Even that fool (or is it the man in the shadows that’s the fool?) surely knows that having season tickets shooting up by £150 since 2018 would be lunacy, especially if fans have been out of Ewood (and well out the habit) for 18 months in the midst of a serious recession. 

Oh, let’s just hope’s he’s retired by then...
 

 

He is the fool as long as he takes the credit for being the fool! 

But say that all of the season is behind closed doors, or even most of it, take the £230 stream value from my £399 season ticket and I have £169 off my next season ticket. Could Waggott stomach giving season tickets for £230? Surely his eyes would light up that he could say up it by £50 as you say, its still "only" £280 and then you have managed to make it whereby season tickets are at £449 without any further rises. Follow on with an amazing price freeze to reward loyalty and get behind the lads and job done!

One thing certainly is inevitable, that Waggott will bump up the price next year again to offset the discounts, and then ultimately the year after that even a price freeze and the prices are still massively up. Hope not but im sure hes already dreaming up his motto questioning our committment.

"The vaccine is coming" could take over from defenders if and when we sign a left back!

Hopefully there will be a level of compromise with playing it out from the back too much because our centre backs are not the best on the ball.

We needed more than anything someone who could defend, on our budget a player good at doing both was unrealistic. Ayala defensively is as good as we could have got, I would have much preferred Ayala to say Naby Sarr who many wanted who is good on the ball but really poor defensively.

Both centre backs are good in the air too, Kaminski had looked shaky from crosses and that was his weakness based on what the Belgian football expert said (interview on Radio Lancashire) back at Gent so hopefully that will help him out a tad.

Just now, PeteJD13 said:

its about supporting the club financially same as every club thats flogged tickets

Of course, probably frustration talking, because there is no reason in my opinion to take such draconian measures, there should be compromise like with other industries who the government clearly recognise are also vulnerable financially such as pubs, restaurants etc and I just hope that there is a u-turn and a bit of common sense.

That being said, if it had been confirmed before the season that there are no fans allowed all season but you can pay 400 quid anyway purely out of financial support, I and the very vast majority wouldnt donate money because, thats a luxury a working class man (or woman) couldnt afford or justify. Ultimately I have taken a slight risk which I was prepared to but it will be disappointing the longer that I cannot go and attend.

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

We have beaten Millwall 5 times since 2012, only losing to them 2 times. In every game, won drawn and lost, our side featured a plethora of academy graduates.

In 2018/19 Joe Nuttall was given what I think was his first Championship start, Lewis Travis played in the early run of his stint in the side too as we ran out 2-0 winners at the New Den. In 2019/20 John Buckley got one of his first Championship starts in our 2-0 home win. 

It’s perfectly plausible to get promoted with a younger side, or a team with a large amount of academy graduates, and whilst the “wet and rainy night at Stoke” joke is funny, it really doesn’t have much place in a genuine discussion about our squads ability.

Nice football as you describe it, isn’t a romantic idea. Promotion with a young, home grown side, really isn’t fantasy, in fact it’s perfectly plausible. Whether you finish 7th or 21st you’re in the same financial and logistical situation the following season; and I’d rather see us try to play entertaining football, promote young talents, add value to promising players and have a bit of fun. Rather than sit and watch Neil Warnock style football, finish in the exact same boat and think, that was bloody dull wasn’t it?

As @Mattyblue says Warnock tends to get results to get into the top 6 so its flawed to compare "Warnock style" football and "entertaining" football on the assumption that both are getting the exact same results. Warnock doesnt think, right well im gonna finish 11th anyway so I may as well do it in the most boring way possible.

Mowbray himself said at the weekend that we need a few more senior heads because its very difficult to maintain consistency with 8 or 9 young lads in the team and he is right. Hes signed an experienced keeper and Ayala so hes clearly keen to address that, hence his seeming frustration that he cant get more over the line. 

It doesnt mean that Mowbrays approach is incorrect regarding style but that is assuming that we can get results like this; I dont get the constant contempt now in the football world for anything but playing it from the back, results are almost secondary now, I mentioned it in the Premier League thread about Burnley.

Thats not to say even without considering the current economic climate that we shouldnt do anything but use the academy to our advantage but our side is already young and full of talent, in many cases, home grown. We already have Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis regulars in the team and Buckley and Rankin Costello in the squad, then Armstrong, Dolan, Brereton, Davenport etc on top that. The main worry with many is the contractual situation. But the focus should always be on results, whether the best way is passing from the back or being more direct. Indeed the squad that Mowbray has built means there is little scope for direct football, now we wait and see if it is more effective than the first style Mowbray adopted when we went more direct to Graham. Indeed playing a higher press and some younger players shouldnt be done because it is fun, because it is pretty, and as if the alternative is "boring" (subjective) football getting the same results, it should be done only if those young players are worthy of playing, and if that style of football is condusive to getting the best possible results based on the squads skillset. As it stands, I would suggest that doing both of those may well be the best way to get results though.

The younger lads that havent yet progressed into the first team properly, Magloire, Carter, Thompson, Vale, Butterworth etc, I dont think there is any urgency to get them involved in the first team in the immediate future as the squad is already packed full of young talent, unless of course any are deemed to be worthy of a spot in the squad, perhaps down to an injury crisis. They may be better suited out on loan.

Football/sport will be a total shell then at the start of next season. Massive job loss, many peoples mental health impacted, clubs going bust. The risk of having a low percentage of a ground open, people spaced out and socially distanced outdoors, following hopefully successful pilots is much safer than opening pubs, restaurants (even with a curfew) and offices.

At the start of next season, or even the season after, the virus will still be here. 

Definitely regret getting my season ticket. Money down the drain.

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Think most people are fed up with it all but rules are rules. This is something most people have never had to do before. 

People are losing their jobs and I will be one of these this week from the looks of it. 

We were deaths and infections to remain low and not spiked like March and April time. 

Vaccine solved this issue. People have they own choices about having a vaccine. I would have it tomorrow if it allow me and my family back to a normal way of life. 

Very sorry to hear that you are going to lose your job. My personal opinion is that many others will due to unnecessarily draconian measures all things considered. I am not suggesting pretending that it doesnt exist but I think that the pilots and the phasing back of fans should continue. 

Even if you are willing, the vaccine will not totally eridicate the virus. If it ever comes. We are probably going to have to live with it.

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are going have to sadly. Can we really afford not to? 

Its shit not being allowed back in but that's the rules. Schools and their education are more important for me. 

It's looking promising that a vaccine will be here. 

I disagree. Not to get too much into a covid debate as I am totally fed up with it but the deaths/hospitalisations are so low relative to what they were and the collateral damage ecnonomically, job loss, mental health etc is huge. And most importantly, the process would be gradual, and it would be based on strict procedures regarding limited capacities and social distancing to minimise the risk.

Even if a vaccine came it will take a long while it wouldnt totally eridicate the virus as not every single person would have it.

Totally fed up with it all.