roversfan99

Obviously it is the League cup, but was unsure where to put this.

But Sky Sports couldnt have seemingly chosen 2 less educated and less informed pundits in regards to a Championship club in Brentford and a recently promoted Premier League club in Jamie Redknapp and Paul Merson.

Considering the amount that they charge (I think I have a good deal getting the sports package on Now TV for £25) the regularity in which the pundits fundamentally do not know what they are talking about is crazy.

The pre match coverage consisted of Merson dismissing Benrahmas value "because you can get Barkley on loan instead and Benrahma didnt even show up at Wembley" and then the pair trying to figure out exactly what Antonee Robinson was in terms of a left back based on a brief montage having clearly never seen him prior.

Sky seem to have had a cull this summer but I am not sure how Jamie Redknapp and Paul Merson survived it, and indeed what the likes of Akinfenwa who has been on Championship duty despite not knowing various fairly well known names is beyond me.

What do people think about the standard of punditry in general? Roy Keane is a bit of a guilty pleasure in spite of his presence purely to cause friction, and its difficult not to like Souness and Shearer. In general, the actual knowledge behind it seems to be on the wane.

Hargreaves is decent on BT sports, refreshing to have what used to be a standard ie a bit of actual knowledge, and they do have more expert analysis albeit usually of other European leagues, although the commentary of Steve McManaman is as aggravating as Jamie Redknapps punditry.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/october/jrc-out-of-cardiff-clash/

"But Gallagher’s back in the mix and [Bradley] Dack will hopefully be back in the mix in the next four to six weeks."

6 games this month that he will miss. Then 2 more at the start of November which are followed by an international break which takes us through to the 21st of November, which is just over 7 weeks away. Hopefully he wont suffer any setbacks and he will only miss a further 8 games.

8 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I am absolutely frothing at the mouth for this game.

To be honest I won't be that upset if we lose as long as we keep playing the same ultra aggressive way.

I dont really get that, all about results and staying within the top 6. Being aggressive is the best way to do that I agree but a win and then 9 poins from 4 puts a marker down, 6 from 4 is bang average.

Just now, bluebruce said:

Any lingering enthusiasm I had for the window just evaporated. I hoped a King sale might be added (just a little, not all of it) to the budget and allow us to sign either a better standard or an extra cover player. But nope. Think TM will be talking about 'hopefully getting one more in on loan', soon enough, in total from now that is. We pretty much wee with the willy we've got now.

We had better hope we get promoted this season. Next season, any loanee we have will be gone (again), Bell and Nyambe stand to be out of contract, Dack in his last year after we extend it, so not worth as much to cover the bills(if he comes back from his injury well). JRC, Rothwell, Holtby, Johnson, Chapman, Williams. Even Evans, Bennett, Fisher, all out of contract in the summer.

Some will have extension options we haven't heard about, some aren't great and soaking up large wages, some might renew, but the point is it will be a HELL of a lot of rebuilding required unless most of them do renew (and we don't sound like we are in a great position to offer terms). We can probably expect somebody to be sold to raise funds for the huge rebuilding job and to cover covid costs, but that will just be another key player needs replacing. And we thought this summer needed a lot of new faces (which haven't arrived in any real numbers). Oh the current remaining gaps will still be there too.

Think we actually need to go up this season to avoid going several steps back.

The main worry if we dont go up is also Armstrong and Lenihan. Them 2 and Dack will have one year left, youd think theyd all be vulnerable to sell.

Preston have a similar decision now. Davies, Johnson and Pearson all have a year left. The likelihood is either sell or let go in a year for free.

Its not hiding behind disgust, its not seeing value and justifying the increased price when the quality of product has gone down.

The club would have only had to sell 300 more to break even had they not increased prices.

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

No, don’t make this out to be something it isn’t.  If you can’t afford a ticket then you can’t afford it. I know how bad the employment situation is and my company has employed over 250 extra people since March. People who lost their jobs in the blink of an eye after years of service in various industries. I’ve also employed people off this board and offered to help others in private conversations. 

The “stop whinging...” is to those with the means to pay who are hiding behind their “disgust” at the extra £20 and a delay on releasing the details.

 

 

(Changed thread)

Do you think that a "true supporter" doesnt have a genuine right to withold from buying when the product decreases in quality due to its uncertainty/ifollow substitute, yet a price rise at the same time? Its a case of sucking it up and accepting it whatever the price is, no scope for principles?

The problem with your viewpoint is not even that is ignorant, even if you think the principles are correct it makes no business sense. You might think that people are hiding, are not committed enough, are not true fans. The club has the same attitude. There are 2 options. Change things to get sales up or continue the guilt tripping.

My season ticket has gone up by £50.

Not seeing value in something that has gone up to 400 quid during a tough economic climate in which people have been made redundant and furloughed is throwing toys out of the pram and sticking out your bottom lip!

The club is not a charity. In tough times the loyalty goes both ways. Price rises for an inferior product and then guilt tripping isnt wise as has been proven.

If the season tickets went to 1 grand, would the same flawed logic apply? 2 grand?

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Nah that’s just a load of waffle for me. Mines gone up what £20 for the year? Could the deal have come out quicker? Yeah I guess it could....but people are making out like they’ve REALLY let us down.

When you put it together, it’s not a bad deal at all.

My view on those debating - stop whinging, Get your hands in your pockets and support your club. Worst case scenario you watch 30 games online and get £170 off next seasons ticket price. ??‍♂️

With such an insulting attitude towards people as if they have £400, a price rise for an inferior product, just waiting in their pocket regardless of affordability or value. I can only presume that your ignorance stems from doing very well for yourself and not appreciating that others might not be.

I have bought mine but am not crass enough to be so derogatory towards those who either are put out by the price rise in line with an unavoidably inferior product. Or in extreme cases like chaddy, cannot justify such a price on ifollow links having been made redundant. As loyal a fan as youll find.

With quotes like "stop whinging, get your hands in your pocket and support your club" its little wonder that you have been accused of being an employee of the coub in the past. Theres nothing we can do, the responsibility is all yours regardless of what we do. You also repeatedly tell us that Venkys will write any cheques, surely theres no need to put prices up?

Even if the club shares your view that value shouldnt come into it and we should pay regardless, that doesnt work practically. Putting prices up when the product quality goes down makes no sense.

Further clarity on the sell on not affecting the budget.

2 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

You've completely missed or ignored that I was referring to Bolton's dishonest 8000 sales and their small print, not our honest 2100 where you agree the details are clear and up front. 

Have Bolton been dishonest, ie did they only put that detail in the small print? Although there was an obvious uncertainty for anyone buying a season ticket.

But yeah I agree with our structure. The price rise was ill informed and the release far too late.

We dont know the success of the signing of Kaminski yet. Im just surprised that we seem destined to make only one signing from Europe. If he turns out to be a succese lets hope he is the first of many.

5 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

What and that's now suddenly OK?! I must have been reading a different forum all summer. Because if Rovers had taken money since May off 8000 fans and then invoked the small print last week after the latest government restrictions, this place would have gone up in smoke.

Absolute rubbish. The current structure would have sufficed, whereby the details were very much in the main statement and not in the small print.

10 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

And Bolton will now be working out how to pay those 8000 people back, or grovelling for their good will to keep their money for no product, or defer for jam tomorrow. 

Rovers have been far more honourable, what has been put on sale is clear and understandable and honest. You don't seem to understand that 8000 sales v 2100 sales is completely irrelevant. The only difference at this point is how many people each club has to refund (and the associated admin costs involved). 

The last paragraph doesn't surprise me. For the entire summer you have moaned about every single aspect of BRFC but most loudly about how you would buy a ST as soon as they went on sale because you could afford to and wanted to support the club. All mouth and no trousers springs to mind. 

The structure of ours is the correct one. Had we put them on sale earlier and without a price rise, sales would have gone up and wouldnt have had to be paid back.

Im not sure if Bolton offered immediate refunds, did they?

7 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Eh? Am I missing something here? What more can they do but to offer season tickets for £399 with 30 efl passes included worth £300 and £170 worth of refunds on next seasons ticket cost?

Effectively getting £470 worth of value for £399 AND supporting your club in the meantime...they even let you pay monthly...seems more than fair to me?

They always let you pay monthly, thats hardly them going the extra mile. And the proportion of the season ticket that is free as a result of buying at all at once is far less than normal.

But surely you can accept that putting prices UP at a point when people are struggling financially and the product is weaker and more uncertain is senseless. Factor in putting them on sale so late and you have the piss poor sales figures we have seen.

The problem as always is that lack of empathy.

There were 2 major things that the club and Waggott could control, when they released them and for how much. So late and with a price rise were 2 poorly thought out  decisions.

You should have seen the celebrations in my house when we lost to Newcastle but had plenty of possession.

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mercer, I do think what I want whether you like it or not. 

Haven't I said I disagree that we need a midfielder. 

Isn't the operation this week for Travis? 

Didnt you say last week that you wanted Cullen from West Ham?

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'll take 38 (or 46) 1-0 wins and a title with poor football every day of the week.

My problem with Allardyce's brand  is firstly prioritising fixtures, for me you give 100% in every game, but also the fact that if you're only going to survive or finish mid table, you want to be entertained and watch an exciting style of football.

Sad to say,  as I like him as a personality, Big Sam rapidly seems to be becoming yesterday's man despite his attempts to keep himself in the limelight as a pundit. What could have been with England had he not chucked it all away through greed.

I would have to say that I agree on prioritising fixtures. Ultimately he would argue that it worked but there is no need to be doing that.

One thing that is quite ironic is how Allardyce is stereotypically seen as old fashioned and behind the time, when indeed with the prozone, analysis and even looking at other sports in terms of sports science, he was actually part of the way football was revolutionised around that time. Obviously it is usually put down to foreign coaches like Wenger and Vialli.

Although I hate Burnley, I am happy to defend Dyche for his style. But if I was a Burnley fan, heaven forbid, my biggest criticism would be at how he dealt with a very rare chance at them qualifying for Europe.

Just now, LDRover said:

Now he is shite

They have definitely upgraded on Paterson in Kieffer Moore, Paterson wouldnt have played anyway.

Sheffield Wednesday have signed a strange mix of strikers. They have Rhodes who still is not particularly in favour despite being not only an actual striker but having already scored on opening day. Paterson is a strange utility man striker who I am unsure if he will ever be prolific. Elias Kachunga who always really played wide for Huddersfield and never replicated his first impressive season 4 or 5 years ago and Windass who Wigan fans were not fond of and again is not an out and out striker.

Wednesday have a bit of a strange side. They might well survive even with the 12 points deduction due to the lack of quality down there though.

Hopefully they go back to a sense of normality, never understood why our fans have spent so much time gloating at their expense considering the seriousness of their plight.

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray wanted another midfielder. He wanted another GK (gone quiet), 2 x CB, LB, CM and RB - in that order of priority.

Since then we've added Ayala and seemingly given up on trying to sell Williams so that overcomes the CB situation.

Since then we've also lost Trav until next year with ligament damage and who knows what is going on with Evans who was training last week yet still doesn't seem to be ready for action.

So I'd say whatever reasons Mowbray had have since become more urgent.

Rothwell and Johnson have done very well of late but this is a squad game. You dont allow a transfer window to Pass by off the back of two good performances. Injuries, suspensions, losses of form, all just around the corner. We need to be prepared.

Agreed. Ultimately money/resources may mean we have to compromise on the number of recruits we make but we cant allow ourselves to get too carried away from a couple of admittedly exciting wins:

- Bell did pretty well on Saturday, maybe he can be our left back in our new style? No, hes been useless throughout his career.

- Dolan has been a breath of fresh air, he is a key player? He is important at the moment, but we cant expect too much from him across the season.

- Rothwell looked really good in central midfield, we dont need a central midfielder now? Even if he maintains it which we dont know, we will need options there.

- Brereton had a bright game, surely hes a shoe in? Until he starts scoring goals, there will always be a question mark.

Theres plenty to be excited about, but they will need some help.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We have missed out a foreign players and this virus has played a part on signings from overseas. 

I don't think you comment of that we are close or actively chasing any signings is right as we would be talking to clubs and the agents of players. Plus PL clubs have 5 days of international window open. Meaning players will become available on loan when they wont be part of the 25 man squad. 

I have no idea why we need another midfield at all. Have you listen to Rothwell's interview post Derby game where he says he wants to play there and enjoying it in there. Moving him now further forward would be crazy talk to be honest. I am more than happy with the options in there and Evans will be back shortly. 

Any keeper who is still available on free is there for a reason. 

 

I was thinking of Luke Thomas , left back from Leicester. 

As I have said before, transfers we miss out on are of no interest to us. I judge the manager on who he gets over the line. I did mention covid and a low budget but I am just saying that we seemingly will only make the one foreign signing. Ayala is a signing I am happy with regardless of where he last played, but it is hardly the yield of foreign recruits that was made out at the start of the window. 

I just think for 3 positions in possibly the most physically demanding area of the side with the additional fixture load. We have the 3 who played at the weekend. The forever injured Evans, Buckley who has yet to fully establish himself and Davenport who has never started a game. If we can get a bit of additional quality in there, then great. We are also yet to know if Rothwell can maintain these standards in a position he hasnt really played for us before across the course of a season.

Ayala was on a free, I presume you are equally dismissive of why he was on a free?!

I was just saying that it would be totally senseless from a clubs point of view to give us a keeper to warm our bench. I am sure if it was our player going to sit on someone elses bench your viewpoint may change.

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Ultimately though, Mowbray does this kind of thing no more so and no less so than any other Championship manager, so the whole point is a bit moot in general the way I see it. It's football, managers have favourites, and at the end of the games they're judged on results

Absolutely, and equally, when Mowbray has made selections of players who he seemingly trusts, eg Bennett at full back, Gallagher out wide, and things dont work out, then he deserves the criticism he has previously received for this decisions.

There are one or two exceptions who have cooked up a senseless conspiracy that the manager is purposely avoiding a potential promotion. Clearly that makes zero sense.

But Mowbray does have/has had his favourites, or has done, just like a large proportion of managers.

Bennett was being actively chosen fairly regularly out of position just because "he takes the plan out onto the pitch" up until half way through last season, when that thankfully stopped.

Gallagher was also repeatedly and unsuccessfully played out wide ad nauseum.

Mulgrew and Smallwood were given a chance in the Championship, although were removed far quicker than the above too, so far less scope for criticism there.