roversfan99

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cardiff played a very structure way which most teams in this league don't. Harris has them very well drilled and deserved credit for them. But we did take 4 points from them last season. 

Rothwell playing against Forest would have help us especially when Holtby wasn't available is 

We play a very specific way and I likely the way we are trying to play football now. 

I don't any of those decisions cost points at all in the scheme of things. 

Johnson sat deep played a number of poor passes as he often does, the last of which led to the winner.

Evans playing further forward led to him being the player who took the ball forward in one of our only attacks in the first half, he shit himself and wasted it. Hes a defensive midfielder. Johnson is one who can get goals. Gallagher out wide and Chapman as a number 10 led to nothing being created in the second half. 

If you want to absolve Mowbray of any responsibility in spite of these then fair enough. Presumably you will also downplay yesterdays win on the fact that we ran riot against 10 men? Thought not.

Both Holtby AND Rothwell played against Cardiff. Yes they are well organised but we struggled against that sort of team in general and that needs to improve, its a little inaccurate to put the lack of creativity down to 2 missing players who played in the game prior when we were equally impotent.

The current way of playing has promise, excitement and potential. I dont advocate changing it. It will only be totally justified once it starts yielding the results to get us into the top 6.

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jaquob Crooke Twitter account 

Rovers and Mowbray hasnt gone publicly with contract talks but why should we tho?.

Williams might move on next season. Depends on what offers are available 

Ah so not the most definitive source then. He makes it up as he goes along.

With contracts, it is a case of either being signed or not, little in between as we saw with Hoilett signing in 24 hours! Hopefully we have a few extensions to be signed soon.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are in contract talks with Holtby, Rothwell, Dack, Rankin-Costello, Williams, Nyambe I've read. 

I would given Armstrong a new deal.which I think.will be done quickly. Lenihan is Captain now so should be easy to do. Expect Holtby and Rothwell, Rankin-Costello to sign new contracts. 

Doubt Nyambe will. Not.a huge fan of his at times but am at others times

 

It all seems to be a bit non urgent and and low priority at the moment, I have certainly not seen anything close to suggesting that we are in contract talks with all of those! Where did you read that?

I hope you are right on Armstrong and am not getting deep into why i think it wont be "easy" to do.

Rothwell was one I missed, again possibly not one I would necessarily prioritise because hes yet to really establish himself but might be wise to add a year or 2 onto his deal.

Williams seemed happy to try and find a new club in the summer for family reasons so maybe that will be impossible.

Does anyone have any major worries about the contractual situation? Look at the side yesterday, 3 loanees, Holtby, Johnson, Rankin Costello and Williams all out of contract at the end of the season. Armstrong and Lenihan all out of contract at the end of next season. And of course Nyambe at the end of this season and the end of next season.

I would give Holtby a new deal, Johnson and probably Williams I would hold off for now perhaps. Rankin Costello makes sense to sign up, should be cheapish and easy to do. Nyambe I would certainly try but am unconvinced that he would sadly. Armstrong and Dack by all means try and pull out all the stops but I cant see why they would commit too early. Lenihan there may be more chance of.

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

no one is given Mowbray a free pass but when Holtby and Rothwell arent available for the Forest game it was going to reduced our ability to win the game surely?

on Cardiff, I think alot of teams will struggled to break them down cos of the way they played. Its ain't beautiful to watch but effect. Harris deserved praised for last season playoff position. But now he got Wilson he may be open abit more. Different managers play different tactics and formations and its enjoyable to watch these different styles at times

I acknowledged that it made things more difficult without numerous players, undoubtedly. A problem all managers will face at some point. That being said, both Holtby and Rothwell were available in the home game prior when we were equally impotent, Rothwell in particular had one of his best games for the club v Forest by not being involved yet being painted as a potential saviour!

The issue regarding breaking down teams is a recurring one that we will need to overcome to reach the top 6. Going away from home and grinding out draws and wins is a very common and successful method.

The side that played was full of regulars during Mowbrays tenure. Kaminski and Ayala were big summer signings. Lenihan has been critical to Mowbrays teams throughout his time here. Nyambe is in most peoples first 11. Bell has sadly been trusted by Mowbray playing most games since he signed. Bradley Johnson had won the leagues player of the month after the previous game. Corry Evans has been involved whenever he has been fit during his time here. The front 3 had nailed down places in the starting 11. Buckley has been in the vast majority of squads since the start of last season, heavily involved and often waxed lyrical over. Gallagher was a 5m man on the bench. Enough there to not be able to absolve the manager of responsibility should we lose to a team at home on 0 points? Certainly.

The key to me was the tactical errors as I mentioned earlier. Cant see any merit in Johnson sitting, Evans ahead of him, Gallagher wide and Chapman as a number 10. Did Mowbray use the senior squad he had available in the best and most efficient way? Absolutely not for me.

Im not in the business of putting the successess down to Mowbray and the failures down to mitigating circumstances, or indeed vice versa. Coventry went down to 10 men very early on, I could write off the last 75 minutes. Or I could write off the Forest loss due to unavailability. But no, praise and happiness warranted yesterday, and frustration and criticism warranted for the Forest game. Weve played 2 promoted and 2 relegated teams, I could focus solely on playing 2 easier teams with less resources, or 2 potentially harder teams with more resources. But no, I will factor in both sides.

10 hours ago, philipl said:

Pretty mind blowing when you think about it.

We are destroying teams with our best defensive midfielder and the star name at the club both missing probably for half this season.

On current all round game form and potential, Dack goes where Elliott is and Elliott replaces Armstrong. That 20 minutes cameo at the end at Coventry this afternoon was the first glimpse of that.

The thought of Brereton continuing to improve, Holtby back to German international form, Dack and Elliott all operating together with Travis the enforcer bursting forward when the opportunity arises is pretty mind blowing. Then it is Trybull, Johnson and Evans competing for the third midfield slot, Armstrong and Dolan impact subs and two games a week rotation options.

Youd drop Armstrong, put Dack on the right and put Elliott central?!

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I'm not giving Mowbray a free pass as he could have changed it around tactically but at the same time I appreciate the players that were out make a big difference.Especially the midfield 3.And if other clubs had 13 out,5 or 6 starters I would expect them to struggle aswell.

I also think its unfair to criticize Mowbray for not including Douglas and Trybull, both had been signed 24 hours before and both had 1 competitive game between the 2 of them this season.

Also you and others keep saying we have only beaten the dross of the division,which is true but I haven't seen those teams being hammered too many times like we have done to them.

Some are now calling Reading automatic promotion candidates,yet the majority of their victory's have been against the weaker sides In the division

I didnt criticise Mowbray for not including Trybull and Douglas, and I did acknowledge that the absentees made the situation much more difficult. But all managers have some games where they have major unavailability. Mowbray made numerous tactical mistakes with the players at his disposal. Johnson in front of his defence has always been a liability, Evans has always got a nose bleed over the half way line and Gallagher has never been a winger since he had a hole in his arse. 

I did mention that we keep beating the weaker teams but not in the flippant way that you implied. I have referenced that we have battered them in a way we havent done to teams for a long, long time and it is very exciting. Us at our best and/or v the worst teams in the league has been leading to brilliant watches for a Rovers fan. You mention Reading but it is not them at "their best" that is impressive to date, it is the consistency of our results. We are a little bit all or nothing at the moment, only winning when we wallop teams. Im excited about many aspects of our team at the moment, I just will only be totally satisfied when we start picking up top 6 level results consistently.

2 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

Stumbled across this edit of every touch from the game.

Jesus.

Rooney-level talent.

That pass on 1 minute 40 seconds I remember thinking wow when he did it yesterday. A shame that Gallagher has the first touch of Jason Roberts because it was absolutely perfect.

9 hours ago, philipl said:

Recall options on both Trybull and Elliott could disrupt us at the end of December.

I am less worried about Elliott unless Liverpool have Salah and Mane out.

I think Klopp and Mowbray have a project for Elliott at Ewood and as I posted in the Dack thread it is playing him up top through the middle which is where he switched to for the last 20 minutes at St Andrews.

As for buying him. Well the Venkys probably do have a spare £100 million...

I dont get why the experiment would be to play him centrally, that is where Armstrong and when fit Dack want to play. Elliott looks good coming in from the right.

This is a big game. Reading have very much made themselves a team to beat at the top of the table and we could do with 3 points to put a bit of a marker down against a better side and also to make up some ground both on Reading and the top 6.

Same side unless Kaminski is injured and Pears to come in if so with the Greek on the bench. Ayala if fit on the bench over Bell.

31 minutes ago, islander200 said:

It's too early to judge and like you say our big wins have come against the weaker teams.

The one thing I take issue with is people adding the Forest game when analysing our season so far.We had 13 players unavailable,5 or 6 of those could be considered starting players.When I seen the side put out pre match I was not confident one bit we would win the match.

Cardiff, we were poor no arguments from me in that game but still we had the most clear cut chances and it was criminal that Gallagher missed that chance from 2 yards out.

We conceded 6 in 2 matches against relegated sides in Bournemouth and Watford.2 teams who have far superior squads than most the division and we did not have what you would consider our first choice defences in both games.The only other goal we have conceded is a deflected shot against Nottingham Forest.

There is a lot more poorer teams in this division than good.The talk of us being in contention for automatic by some I find far fetched, but on the evidence so far I do think we will be amongst the top 6

I dont think you can give the manager a free pass just because we had a lot of players unavailable. That will happen to every manager during the season, and out of those players, 4 were new signings considered unavailable (2 not registered and 2 not selected by Mowbray) so surely they also increase the absentee list for the 4 games prior if thats the case? Not for me, just a drawback of signing them so late. The 11 players plus the first sub Gallagher are all consistently in the first team squad so it wasnt quite bare bones by any means, and tactical errors by the manager (Gallagher widre, Chapman as a 10, Johnson sitting, Evans further forward) all majorly contributed to the poor result.

In the Cardiff game we created very little. The Gallagher miss was poor but it wasnt as clear cut as a tap in and indeed if the managers 5m purchase misses a sitter, he doesnt get a free pass from judgement!

9 hours ago, philipl said:

You will get hammered for suggesting the Rovers crowd might adversely affect the performance of our players.

I dont think that Sparks was implying that the Rovers crowd are particularly demanding in comparison to other teams to the extent that playing behind closed doors benefits us, thats the difference.

Brereton has after 18 personal dismal months been treated well by the Rovers fan base, in that I can not remember a player for whom there has been such a specific and unifed desperation for him to get a goal. Ultimately if his improvements are solely on the back of playing with less pressure in empty stadiums then in the long term then they are fairly useless if he reverts back to what he wss like before when crowds return. Suggesting so at this case is not only again reverting back to the incorrect suggestion that the Rovers crowd are horrible to play in front of, but also a disservice to the player himself.

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Absolutely mate, Anyone with football knowledge can see that we obliterated Watford. It was like one of those iconic giant killing matches where everything the underdog does works and their keeper somehow keeps the giants out.

This team already has and will continue to inflict  heavy defeats on teams this season. We hog possession and are utterly relentless in our closing down. The most pleasing part of our play are the constant waves of attack after attack...it must be a bloody nightmare to play against us now. Get the consistency and we’ll finish comfortably in the top 6 and potentially the top 2.

I know that you are being purposely patronising and antogonistic by claiming additional knowledge to any posters with an opposite viewpoint but we clearly didnt "obliterate" Watford, before considering the laughable giant killing narrative. We lost by 2 clear goals and that is all that matters. We were competitive and we certainly had chances but so did Watford who could have had 5 or 6 aswell. To view it as some sort of freak giant killing is not only totally illogical but also ignores numerous issues with that performance that led to us getting 0 points similar to v Bournemouth (although IMO we werent overly dangerous in conparison v Bournemouth with 2 shots on goal) in showing a real naivety and weakness in transition, and a struggle to turn possession into clear cut chances or if we did, a lack of ruthlessness.

There are plenty of exciting elements to our play at the moment especially in 3 thrashings handed out to 3 of the 4 worst sides in the league so far but ultimately only until the point in which we are picking up points consistenly enough to be in the top 6 will this admittedly exciting way of playing be really proved in terms of effectiveness. Im also not denying that there could be more to come, new signings bedding in, Dack and Travis returning, and hopefully the flaws in our game ironed out, maybe that consistency can come soon.

You could perhaps categorize the first 7 games into 3 categories, playing the weakest in the league in which we have won all 3 and absolutely battered them in an almost unprecedented way for us, decent organised teams coming to Ewood and us being unable to come close to breaking them down, and 2 games v top end teams in which we have perhaps slightly naively have gone toe to toe wih them and leaving ourselves overly exposed, leading to defeat.

Also, never take any stock in an opposition manager praising us, thats my advice. A manager who has won and played against a decent team playing an easy on the eye style will always be full of praise, whereas a team who has ground out a 1 nil win against you in a professional and organised way will always be met with resentment and bitterness. Take Big Sams Bolton or us under Hughes getting under Wengers skin back in the day because he was bitter that he couldnt beat us "lesser lights" so resorted to dismissing our style.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Analysing the game on Quest's EFL highlights show, Parkin said: "They're probably one of the last teams in the division you'd want to go down to ten men for 75 minutes against because Blackburn's front line are scintillating at the moment."

Morrison followed that up, adding: "Harvey Elliott and Brereton are really good. Armstrong has been oustanding. Tell me a better front three in the Championship at the moment? I can't, and they're in really good form.

 

 

Good to hear such praise, although Colin Murray was full of praise that we signed Harvey Barnes which is news to me!

Mowbray said in his post match interview that he hopes we can have him for the season so there must be a clause that could cut the loan short in January.

6 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy Josh. Jordan Rhodes is a world class finisher stuck in the body of a Dog and Duck, Sunday league footballer. I watched him play week in week out and other than when he scored his influence was non existent because the games were being played far beyond his level.

But ultimately the fact that he was such a good finisher and more pertinently got over 20 goals a season ensured that he was a good a Championship striker during his time here as there was in the league.

This conversation seems to have become most prominent after the 3 dominant wins, as to whether he even gets into the team. He is a very, very good player at this level who improves us as our best player. Of course he warrants getting into the team somewhere.

If he was fully fit in the next game, would it be fair to drop any of the attacking players today? Obviously not, and when he comes back, he will be a sub anyway. But would he warrant a start long term over one of Brereton, Johnson or even Elliott or Holtby in our best team? Yes.

Where is a fairer question, and may take a bit of trial and error and experimentation.

17 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

Give it a rest about Rhodes. Gestede and King were better than him. He scored nothing else.

We defend from the front with pace and skill, Rhodes is the last person we should sign.

I was contributing to a pre-existing conversation and I never suggested that we should sign him now, I am aware that his career has badly declined.

I just think that re-writing history by being dismissive or implying that a striker should have been dropped who got 83 goals in 159 games, so better than 1 in 2 and consistent over a few years was anything other than superb for us, in both strong and malfunctioning sides with different managers and in different formations and styles, is absolutely senseless.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Another Rhodes love in again. He was finisher and that's was it. 

Didnt Armstrong score a one on one after a good timing of a run? 

Didnt he won the ball.in the head for Brereton's goal on Wednesday? 

I never said that he is awful at one on ones, just hit and miss. Likewise, Rhodes scored a fair few headers, I wouldnt say he was good or top level in the air.

Its not a love in. I just appreciated that when Rhodes was here, he was as good as any striker in the league. If Armstrong scores with similar consistency and regularity then he can be too, his record in 2020 is very much putting him on the way.

Ultimately for 2 years he was understandably criticised because he looked totally out of place on a football pitch. Youth football is not a strong indicator of anything, Jason Lowe was England under 21 captain.

Recently he has looked a much improved player and has seemingly found a best position, whereas Gallagher has no suitability playing wide, it suits Brereton in a 3 in that the onus on goalscoring is lessened, he can run with the ball, he doesnt have much defensive responsibility and he can hold the ball up against players who arent necessarily as physically imposing.

He has to start scoring to really nail down his place in the line up over time and even start to think about coming close to living up to the price tag, but there are definitely some green shoots.

9 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

That's not what I asked. Yeh he can create and can score, I agree. I'm not sure where he'd fit in though or who he'd replace currently without it adversely affecting our style of play.

Some have said replace Holtby with Dack, I can't see that as Holtby has been the positive fulcrum to most of our attacking play and I can't see Dack being as effective in that role.

Where would you play him in any of your suggested formations? He's a cracking player for a lump of lard with no pace but it's a conundrum for me!

I presume there is an element of sarcasm in the phrase "lump of lard with no pace" but obviously that is not true. He is not massively fast nor is he particularly slow, he has scored goals on the counter attack before where he has more than kept up with quick players. He also has the technical ability needed, and is very comfortable pressing.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rhodes was good finisher but his all round game was very poor. 

Armstrong has all the attributes to be Premier league player something Rhodes has never had. 

Very poor is an exaggeration anyway, but even amidst his limitations, simply being a 20+ goalscorer every year meant that he was a top level Championship striker when he was here, such is the importance of goals.

Does Armstrong have all of the attributes? Timing of runs, strength, aerial ability, hold up play, one on ones, scrappy goals, is he particularly good at any of those even at Championship level/standard? I would say no, not really. But as long as he keeps scoring goals, all of them become secondary.

Both players are not top level in quite a few ways, and often contribute very little overall apart from scoring consistently which is the most difficult and important thing for any attacker. Thats why Rhodes throughout his career here and Armstrong throughout this calendar year were/are so critical to us as a team. 

25 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Dack can operate in a 3-5-3, 4-4-1-1, 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2. He is a player that can create as well as score 

You try telling the referee that!

Very pleasing performance and result, as soon as a very limited Coventry went down to 10 men the result was a formality but the scoreline and many aspects of the performance were very exciting.

Of course the key is consistency now. We have played 3 of the 4 poorest sides in the league so far and we have absolutely hammered all 3 of them. Against "superior teams" or stubborn teams of a similar level, we have struggled to get results. The good parts of the 3 wins have to come together on a regular basis, the start so far is ok, no more, but today I am very happy.

Brereton was absolutely superb today, 3 assists and plenty of other good play, his best performance. The poor finish at the end was frustrating because when we got the first and obviously the man advantage, one of the main things that I was dying to see was another Brereton goal, of course until he starts properly contributing with a few goals there will always be a question mark, but very impressive overall. Armstrong is the main source of the numbers in Dack's absence, perhaps the least involved overall of the attacking players but the most important in putting the ball in the back of the net. Elliott looks a real talent, he doesnt look raw as I expected of someone so young, he looks surprisingly mature and seems to really be on the same wavelength as Holtby who ran the game, although whose finishing was dreadful! Their link up for the fourth was not a first time but it summed them up today perfectly. To see Elliott getting a goal and an assist already is a huge bonus.

Further back, Johnson wasnt stand out but not playing him in front of the back 4 removes that worry of him being a liability in possession and causing us problems, he can put himself about more and he used his experience well, and Trybull whilst looking rather slow in transition looks a natural in that holding role.

I thought that Lenihan was the pick of the centre backs, Williams was fine but Lenihan looked particularly determined to get that clean sheet, he has got some criticism lately but I think whilst not being perfect that we are better with him than without him. Douglas had to shake off some rust at the start with a stupid yellow card and being caught out of possession, ultimately defensively he wasnt tested but on the ball it is night and day with him and Bell, sensible decision to sub him off with the yellow but hes got to be the only choice there now. Rankin Costello would be a worry at right back v better teams, there was once or twice when he naively gave them the run of that right side either by losing it trying something he perhaps shouldnt or even backing off but on the ball he was good and the ball for the first goal was absolutely outstanding. Kaminski had a quiet day and I hope that he recovered for Tuesday.

I thought we lost some control and quality when we made the 3 subs, the players coming on were all obvious downgrades. Buckley grew into the game to be fair and Gallagher got his goal through a terrible goalkeeping mistake but I was really pleased to see him score. He is not a right winger in a million years though so why Mowbray persists with it is beyond me.

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Yes. See his headed goals in pre-seasons gone by. Far more of an aerial threat than Armstrong and Harvey Elliott. Blackpool away this season for example.

I dont think that I have ever seen him even come close with his head in a competitive match. In fact he often seems to purposely avoid aerial duels.

16 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Errrrm no he was not...not even close imo. Rhodes in his pomp had the finishing of Defoe and the overall footballing ability of a league 2 player.

Arma will evidence the huge difference in ability by the level he plays at. He will be in the Premier league next season whether or not we are. 

Both of them are predominantly players that dont contribute loads from open play but are just regular goalscorers. Armstrong does have pace but often he still finds himself offside and he is quite languid in general play, when he wasnt scoring prior to 2020 he was often somewhat of a liability because his at times laziness (which was more of a problem because of the role he played then) was not being offset by goals. He is also hit and miss when he goes through on goal and isnt the biggest threat at sniffing out and anticipating chances likes Rhodes, Dack and even Graham were/are but boosts his numbers up by hitting a few screamers and also like Rhodes, penalties. Rhodes' limitations in general play were overly exaggerated and he didnt have the pace or even the technical ability of Armstrong but he was brilliant in terms of movement, anticipation, composure, intelligence and as you say his finishing, put him through on goal and he scores 9 times out of 10, Armstrong scores maybe 5, Rhodes also gets so many more tap ins. You never really see Rhodes smashing in one from 25 yards though.

I think they are both very similar, not necessarily in style but in being very limited players in terms of how much they contribute overall, apart from getting regular goals. That being said, I think that as stupid as it sounds, simply being able to score goals regularly and consistently is a skill that is becoming underrated, hence why both players were and are so important to us.

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Douglas has put four Premier League quality crosses into the box and nobody’s converting. I’d consider sending Ben Brereton central so we’ve got some impact in the air in the box.

Does Brereton offer an aeriel threat?

Just now, philipl said:

Watford squeezed out a 1-0 against Bournemouth. 

Those 6 points from two games sends them zooming.

Possession 62-38 in favour of Bournemouth but unlike against us, all the other stats were in Watford's favour.

Still think Bournemouth are the strongest side in the division.

Bournemouth equalised in injury time.

Happy enough with the team, although I would have started Nyambe at right back. Good to see Douglas and Trybull start.

37 minutes ago, rigger said:

If that scenario happens fair enough, until then why the U23's and not the bench ?

Apologies, didnt explain very well. I think he should be on the bench at the moment, and obviously if he makes an impact as and when needed then he can solidify his place in the squad and even push to start. If he fails to do so then be might struggle to get into the 18 at some point during the season and if that happens he can dip into the under 23s as initially anticipated.

7 minutes ago, Ruaney said:

Would anybody play Nyambe at CB instead of Lenihan?

Nyambe cant head a ball. Over the last year or 2 our win record is much better with him than without him and especialy with Ayala out, he has to start.