roversfan99

3 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

I sympathise and as someone who hasn’t financially lost out, it’s hard to properly judge. But the club were in a very difficult situation and made a judgement call. They would have angered people whatever they’d done. I don’t necessarily agree with the approach but equally I haven’t got a much better solution. You have to hope fans don’t take it too personally and can see the wider picture. If people choose to throw away their season tickets, fair enough. But punishing Waggott is only punishing the club.

Surely like many other clubs, put the option that they can either have the ifollow links or a pro-rata refund. You can even mention that ideally to take the links to help the club in the press release, and if cash flow is that tight, which it seemingly isnt, then you can offer the refund deferred onto this season, that way people have been reimbursed and it also acts essentially as a deposit practically guaranteeing a season ticket holder going forward. Its not rocket science, and even taking the moral side out of it, from a business perspective, it is a poor decision, especially longer term. 

Just now, Uddersfelt Blue said:

I understand that and you must somehow feel shortchanged but that was a club policy decision taking into account the unprecedented circumstances it found itself in. All season ticket holders found themselves in the same boat and maybe felt somewhat aggrieved that they had paid for something they didn’t get.

Personally I was happy with the iFollow option as an alternative and know others who felt the same. Sometimes you just can’t look at the financial angle but I understand that some may choose to do so. 

This season I’ve taken the decision to again buy a season ticket but certainly don’t advocate that everyone should do the same. Personally it suits me to have games on iFollow as I won’t be attending Ewood for some time. I’ve also bought Match passes for several away games. 
 

 

 

This poster for me is evidence of how Waggott fucked up not only on a moral level, but more importantly on a business level. For the sake of keeping maybe £60, on principle the club has lost a long term customer who could have provided hundreds and thousands going forward. From the fraction of fans that would have preferred a refund, how many £60 savings would it take to make up that lost business? Lots, but I suppose much of that might not be Waggotts problem.

I disagreed with the decision even though I was happy with the ifollow option personally and for my sins, have bought a pass this season. But it doesnt change my opinion that it was another in a long line of poor decisions by Waggott.

3 hours ago, superniko said:

Rovers sitting top of the xG table, with Reading mid-table. It's unsustainable for them to continue as they are (1 shot on target at home vs Wycombe). I'm expecting us to dominate possession and with Holtby playing I think we will create the chances to win this comfortably 

I do think that Reading may well struggle to last the pace, but I have never really embraced the xG table.

I dont get how you can make the quality of chances created an exact science, you definitely cant.

Doesnt it also assume that everyone has the same ruthlessness in terms of taking those chances created? In that it implies that it will level out, for example if a team outperforms its place in the xG, maybe that is just because they are clinical with the chances they have.

Seems like a bit of a nonsense stat to me unless I am missing something.

I dont get how we are top of the league for it either. I dont feel that in any game so far, even if we have been competitive that we havent got what would be expected on the balance of play.

The ball for the first goal on Saturday was outstanding. That and the Elliott pass to Gallagher in the second half were the 2 stand out bits of quality in the game, 2 top class passes.

I still think that Nyambe has to be our first choice right back, you can tell that Rankin Costello is not a natural right back at times defensively, he gets caught out positionally as he did even v Doncaster, there was one moment even on Saturday when he tried to take someone on in a risky position which backfired and Coventry enjoyed a rare counter attack. That being said, he warrants another start tonight for sure.

When he has played further forward I think he struggles to have the real attacking skillset to make an impact, or has done so far, maybe he will grow into a right back over time and refine his positioning and decision making being still very young, or maybe even as a utility man who can cover a few positions. Im not entirely sure at this stage where his long term future lies but he is a very useful member of the squad ans 

I think its very premature calling him a potential Premier League talent, he is still fully establishing himself in the Championship but he should be a contract that we can get done fairly routinely and hopefully soon.

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They were always on agenda but transfer window was the priority as always. 

Install any confidence? 

 

Yeah, until they are on the official site as having signed new deals, then the concern will still remain. 

Dack has been in talks for basically the last 2 years now.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes he will. But he hasn't been contact training yet and will need a few under 23's games 1st. Looking at mid December for him returning for me

Thanks doc. But my point regarding promises potentially made to Elliott over playing central was not really connected to Dack's return, even at the moment without him I see no logic to such a potential promise.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Let's see How Dack returns first. Dack playing any minutes in 2020 is a bonus. 

You keep saying, but he will come back at some point.

But even take him out of the equation, and my point was that I cant see any merit or logic to us promising Liverpool that we play the young winger that we have taken on loan in a central position, baring in mind that we have Armstrong playing central.

1 minute ago, philipl said:

Not an assumption, It happened for 30 minutes against Coventry.

Yeah, but only on what you would think and hope is one of the few times in the season when Armstrong wasnt on the pitch due to having the luxury of giving him a bit of a rest.

Throw Dack into the mix who also is naturally a central player and it seems unlikely that Elliott will get much chance down the middle.

I think that it is more that Mowbray seems to see Gallagher as more of a wide player in the 3, which in my opinion is a very strange experiment, that he put Elliott in more of a free role. But with Armstrong especially and also Dack, I dont see much scope for playing Elliott centrally. Elliott is a wide player anyway so it makes little sense that we could have made any promises regarding where he will play.

At least the contracts are on the agenda but having "began" the process doesnt really instill any confidence, ultimately they have either signed or they havent. Dack has been "in talks" for well over a year. Hopefully we get some good news on contracts soon. 

1 hour ago, philipl said:

I was coming at it from a different angle which is Elliott probably has the ability to play central and giving him a go there might be part of the deal with Liverpool. If he can it means we have goal scoring cover for Arma.

After all, that is exactly what happened when Armstrong was subbed off after 64 minutes on Saturday.

Seems a very random assumption to make that we have told Liverpool that he will play centrally. Assuming that Armstrong is fit, that will not be happening. Elliott looks at home cutting in from the right.

Mowbray seems very keen to persist with Gallagher as a wide man which is an experiment that only he sees any value in.

There is no need to make any changes unless enforced. I am not a fan of making changes to try and be too clever to focus on the shape of the opposition especially on the back of a comfortable win. @neophox why would we randomly take Lenihan out?

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Again, of course there are a minority of dickheads. Especially away when folk have been on the piss all day. I’ve heard all kind of bollocks shouted out over the years. Social media is a modern example of it.

But, on the whole, BB has been well supported by the fanbase as he went through a really tough couple of years... amazed this is even a debate and people can’t separate a small number of idiots from a entire fanbase.

Our own fans seem desperate to paint the whole fan base as a blood thirsty mob and I just cant get my head around it.

Bit of a worry that there could be a couple missing after Saturday. Would be a huge blow.

26 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I have said many times a lot of things about Mowbray that I don't like and I agreed with you previously that Mowbray got things wrong against Forest.

In my opinion the squad isn't set up to sit deep and invite pressure and  hope for a goal  by hitting them on the break like some suggested we do against Watford.

I can nearly guarantee that if we sat deep against Watford and lost the game 1-0 we would have the same people calling Mowbray an idiot because he should have gone more attacking and had a go.

You never seem to remember the quotes but they are there like the where other day about Brereton "dives" and how it's a myth people don't have it in for Brereton.And btw just because you don't hear any Brereton abuse at the ground doesn't mean it doesn't exist...I have heard it myself from the people sitting behind me many many times 

On the first paragraph, fair enough and fair play. I have also tried to make my points (my main one being that until thw results are top 6 worthy, the tactics and style will only ever be promising rather than fully justified) as balanced as possible so I dont want it to seem like I am saying that Mowbray is doing a terrible job etc.

I dont know if anyone has suggested that we should have been really defensive sitting back at Watford but that would also imply that we are just going all out attack and that there is no in between. Again I thought that the balance of the midfield was wrong. I also thought that we again were too vulnerable on transition, something that needs to be tweaked if we are to continue this style of play. My personal opinion again goes back to my point in the first paragraph, that there is not a major flaw or problem with the style. It is simply that negative results will cause frustration and indeed I dont think that the current implementation of it, including certain personnel/tactical points that we have touched on and certain weaknesses that will require tweaking makes it quite as efficient as it could be. 

I dont doubt that people hold extreme opinions, on both sides, and of course I dont agree with or endorse them as I mentioned with the relegation predictions. On diving I tend to find that some people are morally repulsed and genuinely dont want to see even our players do it. 

It depends how you define "abuse." 2 people chatting saying that they dont rate a player (regardless of how exactly they put it) is for me certainly not abuse. Nor is reactionary moans and groans that you tend to hear when a chance is missed, an unnecessary backward pass is made or even a referee decision goes against us, thats all part of having thousands of people in a ground desperate to see their team win. What were the people doing?

The thing about people "having it in" for Brereton is that based on his first 2 years a lot of people simply wont rate him because in those years he has not been good enough. Of course when he does do well as he did yesterday then people need to look past their opinion on the player overall and praise where praise is due, and likewise if a player they rate has a poor game.

I also dont get how you can think that anyone who pays money and invests time watching Rovers would genuinely be impacted anything other than negatively by a player performing poorly. Cant be having that.

28 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It is a difficult call - if Reading are a counter attacking team then Nyambe would be a good choice (with his pace) - however against a packed defence, going forward, JRC would get the vote.

Given the heavy workload - I would play Nyambe - also half expecting a bit of rotation - with possibly Gallagher starting rather than BB (though would be a tough call after Saturday). Its a tough one for TM - rest one or two of the better players and get the wrath of the fans - or don't rest and they pick up injuries - and he gets the wrath of the fans - who would be a manager ? 

Is there a wrath of the fans to get at the moment? He said that he doesnt use social media and he wont come on here. With no fans in the ground there wont be any vocal disgruntlement regardless.

Blackburn Rovers Played 7 Points 11*

*excluding deflected goals from Joe Lolley. Hard luck story.

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Yes but against both Forest and Cardiff we had nowhere near the first 11 I expect to play the majority of the season.Douglas, Trybull and Elliot will be major players for us this season and add Dack when he is back.

I believe that with the attacking players we possess creating chances will not be a problem, but we need to be more clinical.

The thing I just don't believe the squad as it is is built to go and keep thinhs

I'm not fawning over the new style or saying we will definitely make the top 6.

But it's like this, on deadline day the majority of posters were buzzing with our signings.The very next day we play Forest,We play shit and lose the game.All of a sudden the posters who were happy with our deadline day signings are now saying things like "no chance of top 6"" we can't create when teams sit deep" "we will be closer to relegation than promotion"

All that was said without any deadline day signing included or having played a match for is yet.

Pre deadline day I and I presume others felt if we didn't add a couple, a left back certainly then we wouldn't make the top 6.

We added quality, had a very good window so surely it only right to wait till we have at least played a few games with the new additions before coming out with such statements.

I also find it quite sad people downplaying the hammerings we fished out.Yes those teams are not great but they ain't getting hammered every week either and against Wycombe we were 3 up before any sending off.Some of the same posters calling us fast track bullies are saying Reading for automatic promotion when they have played mostly the weaker sides in the division

I feel there is an element of revionism in regards to blaming too much on injuries or moreso the timing of transfers. That is one of the downfalls of not doing the deals until later in the window, I dont doubt that the signings have the potential to improve us. I just am uncomfortable in regards to just being too blaze and blaming everything on unavailability. We can only judge on what we see and both performances and the results were poor. As long as unavailability is acknowledged which I have done so, I feel I am within my rights in questioning and criticising tactical errors that I have repeatedly not liked seeing. Out of interest, Gallagher wide, Chapman as a 10, Johnson sitting as the deepest midfielder and Evans further on, do you agree with any of these tactical choices or disagree? I am also IMO within my rights to question our performance in certain types of fixtures which I will come on to.

I dont specifically remember these quotes (obviously not saying they dont exist) but I personally have never said "no chance of top 6" and certainly that we "will be closer to relegation than promotion" and indeed whoever said these things especially the latter example I agree are guilty of hyperbole.

I have also not downplayed the hammerings, in all 3 match threads including this my post match analysis was full of individual and collective positives. My point amidst it all is until (and if) this hope, potential, promise and excitement manifests into consistent top 6 standard results, that is all it is.

Regarding the issues you deem as unfair that have perhaps lagged over from previous seasons, you have to accept that until we get results that show that we have overcome these things, that they can and will be brought up. Our ability to really batter teams when in the ascendency has often been questioned in the past. That IS something we seem to have changed, any notion that teams neednt worry about getting battered by us if we are on it has been shot down. I have seen plenty of justified praise for this development. Conversely, our home record has been ok since promotion but perhaps littered with a few too many draws and at times a failure to break teams down. Cardiff and Forest were 2 further failures of this historical issue. The developing style and the new signings MIGHT in time overcome this but at this moment they havent so the question mark will always be there. Another issue is not enough points against top 6 sides. Obviously we dont know yet who those will be, but the relegated sides are amidst the favourites, we competed with both but lost. No use to us and something hopefully we again can adjust soon. People can only judge on what has happened, a forum cant be expected to just totally withhold judgement on anything until a specific point in the season, judgement is continious.

Reading make a perfect challenge for us. A side really in form and well above us who we need to make ground on, yet also a side who will allow us to try and break them down. Win and it is a sign of progression, fail to and it adds further concern. Lets hop we get a win which will be very welcome.

And give me frustrated managers slagging us off being bitter after weve taken 3 points over victorious ones praising our style after winning by 2 clear goals any day! 

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

But none of that is the reasons why we lost the Forest. It was cruel defection goal. We could have gone 4-4-2 and lost the game by 2 goals. who knows. Rest of it is speculating and guess work. 

Most championship clubs don't play the Cardiff way. Watford was a solid defensive team from the games Ive seen before we played them and we created a number of chances against them. 

You need to look at the Cardiff and Forest in isolation as 2 teams playing differently for me. 

The current way of playing is right for our current squad of players. It is yielding results, performances and goals

Equally, Forest were desperately unlucky not to score minutes prior to Lolley's goal when Ameobi hit the post. Coventry were desperately unlucky to hit the post just before we got a penalty and man advantage which would have changed the game totally. Johnson was lucky to get a huge deflection for one of his goals at Derby. We were lucky that our first goal v Wycombe came from a potentially dubious penalty award.

If you choose to have the mentality of, we might have lost even if Mowbray had used alternative tactics/selections, without considering the alternative side of that argument when things go well/we get bits of luck ourself, then that is your choice. Ultimately, such a blameless mentality and lack of responsibility only creates a biased viewpoint whereby the manager is praised for what he has done correctly (as he was yesterday, we were very good) and then totally absolved of any responsibility when things dont go well. 

The current way of playing has collected 1.43 points per game so far this season. Last season we collected 1.37 points per game. It is yielding a minimal increase in terms of results and points accumulation so far that is still a fair bit off that needed to make the top 6. My point has never been that we should not play this way, that the current style isnt showing promise and signs of excitement or that anything is disatrously wrong, only that it can only be fully justified and fawned over when it gets us into the top 6 which I dont think is controversial or unfair.

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

A recurring one?See I don't get why we are comparing this year's team with seasons gone by?

We are playing a totally different game to what we have in previous years.

Half the starting team is also different to previous seasons.Kaminski ,Ayala , Douglas, Trybull and Elliot.Add a much better looking Brereton and Holtby seemingly having found a position.

Our style and the players are much much different so think it's way too early to say we struggle to break teams down .I can't see how this team ,squad and tactics can be compared in anyway with previous seasons.

By recurring, I meant that many teams use a similar blueprint that Forest and Cardiff used (and has seemingly been frowned and looked down upon) for away games, in terms of being hard to beat, well organised and looking to score via a set piece or counter attack.

Whilst it is obviously an added concern that a problem we have faced last season seemingly has not been resolved, the criticism/concern surrounds the games we have faced in that regard from this season.

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cardiff played a very structure way which most teams in this league don't. Harris has them very well drilled and deserved credit for them. But we did take 4 points from them last season. 

Rothwell playing against Forest would have help us especially when Holtby wasn't available is 

We play a very specific way and I likely the way we are trying to play football now. 

I don't any of those decisions cost points at all in the scheme of things. 

Johnson sat deep played a number of poor passes as he often does, the last of which led to the winner.

Evans playing further forward led to him being the player who took the ball forward in one of our only attacks in the first half, he shit himself and wasted it. Hes a defensive midfielder. Johnson is one who can get goals. Gallagher out wide and Chapman as a number 10 led to nothing being created in the second half. 

If you want to absolve Mowbray of any responsibility in spite of these then fair enough. Presumably you will also downplay yesterdays win on the fact that we ran riot against 10 men? Thought not.

Both Holtby AND Rothwell played against Cardiff. Yes they are well organised but we struggled against that sort of team in general and that needs to improve, its a little inaccurate to put the lack of creativity down to 2 missing players who played in the game prior when we were equally impotent.

The current way of playing has promise, excitement and potential. I dont advocate changing it. It will only be totally justified once it starts yielding the results to get us into the top 6.

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jaquob Crooke Twitter account 

Rovers and Mowbray hasnt gone publicly with contract talks but why should we tho?.

Williams might move on next season. Depends on what offers are available 

Ah so not the most definitive source then. He makes it up as he goes along.

With contracts, it is a case of either being signed or not, little in between as we saw with Hoilett signing in 24 hours! Hopefully we have a few extensions to be signed soon.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are in contract talks with Holtby, Rothwell, Dack, Rankin-Costello, Williams, Nyambe I've read. 

I would given Armstrong a new deal.which I think.will be done quickly. Lenihan is Captain now so should be easy to do. Expect Holtby and Rothwell, Rankin-Costello to sign new contracts. 

Doubt Nyambe will. Not.a huge fan of his at times but am at others times

 

It all seems to be a bit non urgent and and low priority at the moment, I have certainly not seen anything close to suggesting that we are in contract talks with all of those! Where did you read that?

I hope you are right on Armstrong and am not getting deep into why i think it wont be "easy" to do.

Rothwell was one I missed, again possibly not one I would necessarily prioritise because hes yet to really establish himself but might be wise to add a year or 2 onto his deal.

Williams seemed happy to try and find a new club in the summer for family reasons so maybe that will be impossible.

Does anyone have any major worries about the contractual situation? Look at the side yesterday, 3 loanees, Holtby, Johnson, Rankin Costello and Williams all out of contract at the end of the season. Armstrong and Lenihan all out of contract at the end of next season. And of course Nyambe at the end of this season and the end of next season.

I would give Holtby a new deal, Johnson and probably Williams I would hold off for now perhaps. Rankin Costello makes sense to sign up, should be cheapish and easy to do. Nyambe I would certainly try but am unconvinced that he would sadly. Armstrong and Dack by all means try and pull out all the stops but I cant see why they would commit too early. Lenihan there may be more chance of.

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

no one is given Mowbray a free pass but when Holtby and Rothwell arent available for the Forest game it was going to reduced our ability to win the game surely?

on Cardiff, I think alot of teams will struggled to break them down cos of the way they played. Its ain't beautiful to watch but effect. Harris deserved praised for last season playoff position. But now he got Wilson he may be open abit more. Different managers play different tactics and formations and its enjoyable to watch these different styles at times

I acknowledged that it made things more difficult without numerous players, undoubtedly. A problem all managers will face at some point. That being said, both Holtby and Rothwell were available in the home game prior when we were equally impotent, Rothwell in particular had one of his best games for the club v Forest by not being involved yet being painted as a potential saviour!

The issue regarding breaking down teams is a recurring one that we will need to overcome to reach the top 6. Going away from home and grinding out draws and wins is a very common and successful method.

The side that played was full of regulars during Mowbrays tenure. Kaminski and Ayala were big summer signings. Lenihan has been critical to Mowbrays teams throughout his time here. Nyambe is in most peoples first 11. Bell has sadly been trusted by Mowbray playing most games since he signed. Bradley Johnson had won the leagues player of the month after the previous game. Corry Evans has been involved whenever he has been fit during his time here. The front 3 had nailed down places in the starting 11. Buckley has been in the vast majority of squads since the start of last season, heavily involved and often waxed lyrical over. Gallagher was a 5m man on the bench. Enough there to not be able to absolve the manager of responsibility should we lose to a team at home on 0 points? Certainly.

The key to me was the tactical errors as I mentioned earlier. Cant see any merit in Johnson sitting, Evans ahead of him, Gallagher wide and Chapman as a number 10. Did Mowbray use the senior squad he had available in the best and most efficient way? Absolutely not for me.

Im not in the business of putting the successess down to Mowbray and the failures down to mitigating circumstances, or indeed vice versa. Coventry went down to 10 men very early on, I could write off the last 75 minutes. Or I could write off the Forest loss due to unavailability. But no, praise and happiness warranted yesterday, and frustration and criticism warranted for the Forest game. Weve played 2 promoted and 2 relegated teams, I could focus solely on playing 2 easier teams with less resources, or 2 potentially harder teams with more resources. But no, I will factor in both sides.