Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Would you agree that Premier League football is a TV Sport then? I know of football fans who support Liverpool or Man City or Man Utd who never attend games but what every game of their clubs through streams and Sky Sports TV at home.  

I think me and you would rather attend Rovers games in stadiums then watch Rovers games on TV. But currently that's not available but I would rather watch Football on TV if we cant be in the stadium. Yes If Rovers did make the playoffs I would want to be there but that's aint possible sadly. That's the way it currently is. 

I watch 2 or 3 La Liga games a week, which will be less possibly if they clash with watching Rovers and PL games. But you don't hear many of their clubs fans inside Stadiums.  

No football is a TV sport in the way that behind closed doors football will be, no. Now it will ONLY be a TV sport.

I struggle to empathise with fans who support big teams and just watch on tv as they cannot get the same degree of enjoyment from their team as we do but you are missing the point. Its not the fact as to whether a game is on TV. Even if every game was on tv, thats not the change to focus on, its having fans present or not in the ground. Say a Liverpool fan only watches on TV, and couldnt find Anfield if his life depended on it, it would still massively dampen his feeling even watching on TV as per usual if Henderson lifts that Premier League trophy in front of fans, and even the open top bus parade etc, over going through the motions to fulfill the fixtures and win in an echoey and empty stadium. It wont feel the same and neither will the run of games leading to it, and thats my point.

You are somewhat accepting that it will be a worse experience because you cant attend but not fully. Go back to the run in during League 1, some of the games and tenseness, say it got to the last few games and we was right in the hunt, it is IMPOSSIBLE to replicate that feeling behind closed doors.

Your comment about often not noticing fans is inaccurate on many levels. The bit that I dont think you appreciate is that its not just the fact that you are there or not there. Theres no burst of celebration when a goal goes in anymore, its very sanitised. Theres no late pressure in a hunt for an equaliser with the crowd sucking the ball into the net. Theres far less pressure. Theres no edge. Its not the same. 

Your point that youd prefer to watch behind closed doors on TV over nothing is a fair and valid one if you appreciate that behind closed doors football is nothing like what it was before. You can accept that even though you know and understand that its the only possible way at the moment.

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But nothing is the same currently and Football wont be the same but that's the part of this new normal of life. 

Haven't you been a regular of the German League on BT Sport? Don't you watch plenty of PL and EFL football when its on TV before this pandemic?

I hate the phrase "new normal" because it implies a permanent change. I see behind closed doors now as an unfortunate and massively inferior temporary substitute that hopefully will be for a short a time span as possible.

Firstly it is a mistruth to suggest that football is already a TV sport is a mistruth. Whilst the amount of football moved for TV is more than ever, showing matches in front of fans very much part of the experience. Now, unfortunately it is a case of teams fulfilling fixtures as a matter of course, going through the motions.

Before all of this, I would occasionally watch foreign football but it felt like it meant something before, even as a neutral with a passive interest it is chalk and cheese. The difference between big and small is even bigger, players no longer treat goals with euphoria and it all feels routine. Not only is the player and fan connection removed from individual games, which has led to less late goals I believe, but its obvious that everyone knows that as much as they are being as professional as possible, it isnt the same.

Throw in the personal interest of watching my own team and I suspect I will be even more conflicted and the difference will be even more stark. In your head you will be watching snug in your armchair but everything else will be exactly the same. If Rovers made the play offs and you didnt feel a hint of annoyance that you was missing out then surely you wouldnt be human.

I have been watching behind closed doors football because theres very little to do in lockdown and even if it is only half as good as normal it is still football to watch. Ill be watching English football once it resumed but that doesnt mean I am considering it anywhere near what is on offer with supporters present.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

guess so but more comfort in my armchair. Of Course if you gave me an option of Ewood Park or my armchair watching Rovers I would say Ewood Park. 

When Liverpool win the title it is going to strange to pick the league title in an empty stadium but that's is part of new normal of life for short period of time. 

Football is a TV Sport already as at least 4 to 6 PL games are on TV regularly anyway. Haven't you been regular watcher of the German League on BT Sport? I haven't due I wont pay BT Sport monthly fee of 25 pounds. 

I will be engrossed in Rovers 9 games as always. It wont be the same as attending games but it is still my team going for playoffs and playing. We will be discussing I'm sure on here and other social media platforms. Will I still be watching the PL and EFL games on TV when they are back on

So you want no EFL for years if we don't get a vaccine or treatment? Most EFL clubs would have gone bankrupt as wages of players would still have to be paid if under contract. 

You have admitted that it wont be the same in that so fair play, finally maybe the penny is dropping! That was my main point.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Football is becoming a TV Sport for all supporters for short period of time and until it is safe and we have vaccine or treatment plan. The majority of sport is a TV sport now whether its football, cricket, F1 or other sports. The PL is offering all fans to be available to watch it through TV companies. 

I think Sky Sports package is cheap in my opinion. I only paid 28 pounds per month for Sky Sports coverage of the sports I like to watch each week. People will disagree with me But considering what sports I watch it is fully worth it. 

I have seen behind closed games before as I have said before. Football has to become a TV Sport for a while. You watch alot of football already on TV so Football is TV Sport for you. 

I know it is short term going to become a sport only accessible via TV.

The thing is, you dont have to pretend that a match played in front of an empty stadium is no different. You dont have to make out as if the end result ie teams winning trophies etc is the same in front of an empty stadium. You dont have to staunchly big up behind closed doors football. You can accept it as a necessity whilst admitting that it is nowhere near as compelling as with supporters in the stadium. 

It is also not the same as a one off game behind closed doors, it is the rest of a season behind closed doors and almost certainly another season. 

If you think you are going to be engrossed in our run in in exactly the same way as you would was you to attend all of the games, potentially go to Wembley etc, then IMO you are either deluded and trying to fool yourself, or totally naive and the reality will set in once the football returns. Drop the superfan, behind closed doors officianado, accept and admit that it ISNT going to be the same, that whilst its a necessity it isnt going to be as enjoyable or feel as important, and youll get more respect.

16 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good post.

“It is not a decision made to purposely to try and tailor the game towards the armchair supporters”

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince people he didn’t exist - Roger “Verbal” Kint

Granted, they haven’t engineered a virus to create the current circumstances but I expect they will certainly try to take advantage of the situation.

‘Football’ could have stood firm and said “no fans, no football” and paid back the piper. The EFL certainly should, they are hardly supported like the PL is. Instead, they have caved in the worst way - they will say through necessity but this single decision to not stand up against TV companies on a force majeure basis will have permanent repercussions. As a minimum a split in football at the top divisions.

By resuming with BCD this season, the 3pm rule is now broken. By beginning next season on the same basis, how easy will it be to then stop and go back to the ‘sacrosanct 3 o’clock blackout’ to protect lower leagues and grass roots? Nobody cares about them now so why in the future? Who will decide when it is safe for fans to return and would this new arrangement be a factor? I guess we will see.

Personally, I believe that there to be a mission by TV companies to eventually show every game live. There is almost certainly a ready-made market for it in the streaming age. VAR is already creeping insidiously into the game. How long until football is like U.S. sports with stop-start TV-integrated-rules and ad breaks during every stoppage? “The fans will never put up with that” has always been the riposte. Maybe they will no longer have a say...

I suppose like with all industries, the financial importance of returning even if it is not initially the same is the driving force. They have obviously weighed it up, and once they perhaps prematurely dropped the issues regarding health and morals, it was a decision between refusing to start up again out of principle or making do with the diluted alternative of behind closed doors football, knowing that SOME income streams can be maintained by doing that, and taking the latter as the favourable option, rightly or wrongly.

The post pandemic consequences are certainly an interesting topic. I hope that the phrase "new normal" isnt a thing forever and indeed it does revert back to normality at some stage. You make an interesting point about legalities such as the 3pm blackout and whether it will even be possible to reverse that back to being a rule once this is allover. 

Another point, some of the steps English football are apparently considering are a bit cringeworthy and should not be implemented, half time interviews, behind the scenes changing room footage, crowd noise, crap like this I am opposed to, we can accept that behind closed doors football is not a patch on normal football, have it pretty much how the Bundesliga is running things as very much a poorer substitute, but these TV driven fads wont make a difference in terms of making up an insurmountable deficit that is caused by not having supporters involved in the games.

I have been a big critic of bringing back football so soon but its far from a unique industry in terms of being desperate to get back to business as soon as permitted to do so for financial reasons.

I also think that, as @chaddyrovers points out behind closed doors is a short term measure. It is not a decision made purposely to try and tailor football towards the armchair supporters or anything like that, it is out of necessity only. 

The part where he is talking out of his arse however is when he dismisses the role of supporters in the experience of watching a football game. That is an opinion either out of ignorance and naivety, or one whereby he will champion anything resulting from the decisions of the current Tory government. Not necessarily from him but quotes like "new normal" and "becoming a TV sport" are annoying too. Once he watches some behind closed doors football, maybe that opinion will change, I have watched quite a few Bundesliga games since the restart in passing and it is nowhere near the same. It is different on two levels, the individual games which dont feel the same, and the overall feeling that the winners and losers of the final league season lose their importance somewhat, who cares who wins the league etc when there is no one around to see it?

I see the remaining season as somewhat of a empty shell and something that is being done as a tick box exercise just to have a season completed in the records. My worry is towards next season because if as expected at least some if not all of the season is behind closed doors, which i appreciate and understand any decision if that has to be the case, how is it possible to be enthusiastic about a season which will not particularly matter.

10 in the Championship.

Just now, rigger said:

I agree with most points. A manager should not be lauded as a genius after a good signing. The same as he shouldn’t be scathed after a bad signing. But what I do think a manager should be berated for is persevering with mistakes to save face.

Agreed. Also a players time here or anywhere else may not necessarily follow logic but it does not make them initial constructive views, hopes and fears to be necessarily unfounded or indeed unfair.

Stewart Downing joined with Boro fans seemingly happy to see him go, having not played for the last half of a season, and when he has played in the last few years his productivity seemed to have been on the wane.

Adarabioyo as mentioned came in to plug a huge hole that we needed to get right, having played no real senior football at centre back and on the back of a shaky loan spell playing at right back.

Bradley Johnson meanwhile came in off the back of a crucial role in a Derby side that made the play off final and with a stellar CV in Championship terms. The vast majority saw it as a great signing.

Sam Gallagher was a player of mixed opinions but many got hope from an ok loan spell when he was younger.

As it has turned out, Downing has been our best player, Adarabioyo has slipped into the back 4 like a glove, Johnson has been particularly underwhelming and unable to nail down a regular spot, and Gallagher has been absolutely dismal.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

That's why I mention to yourself during that summer about not over judging players on the back some fans opinions. Mowbray and his staff knew their wanted a ball playing centre back last summer

It was general point about fans trusting their manager and recruitment staff cos of the amount of scouting that clubs do. Wasn't just talking about Rovers but you look at someone like Brentford or Leeds. and the amount of researching and scouting that goes into the scouting players. 

Not sure about next season behind closed doors will be at this stage as we don't even know when the season will start, When the season will start and what the current situation is with a vaccine or treatment then

Some clubs will be skint but we wont be. We have wealthy owners

My point in a discussion to another poster was that loan players, even recent successful examples have been signed and trusted to fill positions with no previous senior experience to back up the risk. It wasnt even a criticism, yet again you have barged in with a defensive attitude. 

If your mentality is to blindly not critique/judge and just assume that Mowbray is signing the right players, or indeed that any person is, that is fine, but other people will. 

Regarding this example, we signed a player and doubts were raised about someone with no senior experience as a centre back and with only a shaky spell at right back on his CV to come in and fix a woeful defence from the previous season. Regardless of the success that he has been, those doubts were very valid and very constructive and understandable.

Neutral venues surely reduce the already waning remaining integrity of the competition.

Burnleys profit in 2019 was £4.3m to be fair so they are hardly churning out millions after millions of profit. They havent as far as I know, although I may be wrong, and of course their match takings, costs of testing etc and I presume a chunk of their TV money will be taken so you would suspect they will certainly post a loss, maybe a decent sized one. So I personally can understand it to an extent.

They have offered refunds so you cant really argue. Again I mention the moral dilemma of getting refunds, I am not sure if it is frowned upon but it shouldnt be, but I dont think it can be described as a disgrace.

7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Roughly where I’m at tbh. 
If my refund money helps the club to survive in a post-Covid world, then they can keep it. 
I’m not struggling particularly (furloughed), but if they have to give out the refunds, I’d probably take the money back and spend it at the shop or something. 

Its a bit of a minefield in terms of what to think. I would also feel somewhat like I should help my club. But there are so many logical reasons why you should feel entitled and guilt free to take your money back which to a football club is a mere drop in the ocean.

Would you feel conflicted if the club didnt offer a refund but then went out and bought a player, or would you just think thats done to help the club progress?

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

isn't WBA player Matheus Pereria loan signing of the season? with 6 goals and 16 assists this season

That's why you got to trust the manager and his scouting staff with scouting players properly. 

Seems like WBA wasted Tosin's talent and ability last season

It will be interesting to see what signings we will make in the Next transfer window

I said 3 of the most successful, 4 including Adarabioyo, which they were, but specifically I was talking about players with minimal or no first team experience prior to this season that had been signed on loan with a risk attached because these sides couldnt know whether they would come in and slot in having had no previous experience or proof that they can do what is expected.

Adarabioyo came with lots of doubts because he had never played any real football at centre back. He had a solitary season at Championship level in which he attracted a lot of criticism for poor performances and mistakes made playing out of position. He had a just excuse for that in that he is a centre back but Mowbray didnt have anything to look back at or indeed scout to say that he would be a competent Championship centre back. If he goes out on loan elsewhere next season that club would be able to look at his spell here.

You dont have to command people to "trust the manager and his scouting staff" every time. The same manager and scouting staff also saw fit to spend 12 million on 2 wastes of space, like any manager he makes mistakes in terms of transfers and people are free to judge and critique rather than just blindly trust. If you are happy to just "trust the manager" as a general rule and cant accept constructive debate then maybe discussions about transfers and players is not for you 

I struggle to be excited about a transfer window that isnt for 2 months presumably when clubs are skint amidst a pandemic ahead of a probably behind closed doors season but each to their own! 

Refunds are a really strange issue really. I suspect that supporters will feel an element of guilt about potentially taking a refund from THEIR club, and considering their relative wealth to footballers who have as of yet only deferred their wage, we have had our fair share of suffering paying hundreds and thousands to support our club up and down the country in the time when these wealthy owners have been here treating us with disdain, big wastes of money being brought, and our refund being such a small drop in the ocean compared to that, it is a wonder why we would feel that guilt. 

I think there is a big difference between Man United still to replace Lukaku with millions burning a hole in their pocket throwing it at a Prem team desperate to take a key asset from them, and Rovers trying to beg, steal and borrow, especially post financial issues caused by a pandemic to find a left back, targetting one who has been seriously injured and previously considered unneeded by his parent Championship club.

I am not convinced that Cardiff will be happy to loan him out dependant on the opinion of their manager brought in after Cunningham had joined us, I think thats the main issue.

You are right that we need to ensure any loans coming can hit the ground running although to be honest that is easier said than done. Adarabioyo very much was a risk, he had not shown himself (or been given the chance) to prove he was a competent Championship centre back and it was a risk to put our eggs in that one basket. He had spent a season at West Brom in which the vast majority of his game time came out of position at full back where he struggled. We had no evidence that he would come in and slot in so competently.

The loan market is a bit of a minefield unfortunately, and with money at a premium for teams after the pandemic I suspect reliance on and thus competition for them will ramp up. You look at 3 of the most successful loans last year aside from Tosin, Ben White had previously spent a couple of underwhelming loan spells lower down the pyramid and was brought in to replace Jansson, and Conor Gallagher and Rhian Brewster both had no real senior experience. The relevant teams were fortunate as to how well they did.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

why? 

Rovers owners have money so if other clubs don't have money then I would be investing money to get us promotion next season if we don't this season

We dont usually have a massive kitty, and surely that will have been swallowed up by reduction in income both past and ongoing, cost of testing etc.

I just personally think it would be a bit questionable if following the steps taken to complete the top couple of divisions, if the summer saw the usual spending spree splashing big money on players across the world ahead of another behind closed doors season, it wouldnt sit right.

Whatever my own personal feelings are on it, I suspect and would guess that we wont be splashing out on new signings, surely we have to cut our cloth accordingly. Naive to expect the window to pass as normal really.

1 hour ago, Scotland1 said:

Heard Rovers sniffing around Lynden Gooch from Sunderland

Not sure it is wise to be sniffing around gooch.

I would be very surprised to see us spend a fee this summer. In fact I think it would be distasteful if the transfer window saw anything like normal spending. I dont see how it is possible even for the big teams this year.

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I really don't understand the argument against football coming back, it's an absolute no brainer.

1) There's no doubt that the primary reason Clubs are coming back is money but they aren't coming back purely to line their own pockets, in the vast majority of cases they're coming back to try and ensure their very survival.

2) On the sporting integrity issue, if you take the view that crowds can't be allowed back into grounds yet, there is no perfect solution which is as fair as it was pre lockdown.

Playing the fixtures out in full behind closed doors if finances allow is the least worst option.

Finishing the season now, extrapolating the final positions out on a points pet game basis, then holding play offs as normal to decide on promotion and relegation is the next least worst option  for me followed by doing the same only without the play offs.

The least desirable and most unfair option is imo just scrapping the season and declaring all results null and void. That means if you've had a belting season all your effort has been for nothing and if you've stuck the place out, you've got away with it Scott free.

Other non-essential businesses are now being expected to return on the 15th of June and the employees there don't have the luxury of being fully screened for any underlying health conditions and regularly tested that top footballers have.

The only possible argument against football returning is that it diverts resources away from other areas and I can't see that there's any problem now with the availability of tests, if there is one, more the mechanics of getting the tests to people and processing the results.  

 

If we are taking without argument and debate that the season is going to be finished for the Premier League, Championship and perhaps League 1, then fair enough, in the absence of any possibility of a truly fair conclusion, playing the games behind closed doors and actually finishing the season seems the fairest way to conclude things, if logistics allow. Whilst morals and safety issue come into that debate, if you put them to one side and just ask what is the fairest possible way, at least that involves playing a full fixture list out. Certainly dont disagree there.

Its the issue of points per game fuelled finalised league tables v null and void that seems to cause controversy now. I appreciate that cancelling a season as null and void is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination but it goes without saying that a season is far from over with a quarter still to go. The season was halted suddenly and ultimately in these leagues cannot be feasibly concluded but you cant just start changing divisions based on where a team was when that sudden halt came into play. 

There are 2 differently affected scenarios. Where 2 non completed leagues meet, and where a concluded league meets an unconcluded league. The latter scenario also would show blatant inconsistency and disregard to any integrity.

You cant extrapolate divisions based on three quarters of a season, with differing difficulties of fixtures left remaining. A season is either completed or it isnt.

17 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Which, again, is what I said.

However, if L1 and the Championship end the season differently then there should be no movement of teams between the two.

The integrity is lost.

100%. Youve either completed a season or you havent.

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

@roversfan99, The clubs in League 1 have a voted and from what I have read and listen to they will vote end the season and have playoffs and relegations based on Points Per Game. The EFL have allowed clubs to decide the future of the league. Its a simple vote and the a majority wins. Its allows Clubs to decide. Its the fairest way. Not ideal but EFL have played a blinder here by allow league 1 clubs to decide. Also stop legal challenges. Yes you care right they will be losers and winners. But they could restart the season and finish the season but some clubs don't want to like Stanley. You aren't going to pleased every club in unique situation. 

It might be the fairest way to allow League 1 clubs to decide if they can conclude the league or not perhaps. But points per game should not be an option. Finish in full or not at all.

Also no way will prevent the risk of legal action, this is something you cannot seem to grasped. No matter what the conclusion is, there will be teams that miss out on promotion, that are relegated etc that wouldnt have been had another method been used. Im sute that Peterboroughs idiotic chairman has insinuated that it wont be the end of the matter if they use points per game for example.

My suggestion ensures that the season is either finished IN FULL or not at all, no half measures. Its the points per game thing that really I am opposed too. It is a ridicilious half measure that shouldnt be considered.

As I have said, I suspect that you are either purposely not grasping my simple proposal (finish divisions until the point where it becomes impossible logistically, the leagues that are finished incur titles, promotions and relegations as normal, up until the point where divisions cannot be completed as to which the season is written off) for wind up purposes or you cannot understand said simple proposal. If its the former more fool me, if its the latter more fool us both, either way more fool every poor bugger who has had to read it ?

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Fair play to you ‘99, indefatigable.

Haha beyond that I think!

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The rules between premiership and Championship are they to protect clubs in football league clubs from the Premier clubs stopping them going up. So if we null and void the season as you have suggest you want then those clubs in the bottom 3 clubs in the Premier League can get loads of cash for another season whilst stopping clubs who should go in from the Football league don't get any cash. Imagine what that cash windfall will do to club like Brentford or Rovers. Massively income for the club plus more sponsorship and revenue from it. Football club is a business in one sense. 

Its their league at the end of the day and given clubs a vote in how to complete the season is democracy and saying its your decision to make. The EFL will work with them to implement what their decision they made. 

Well what other way cos you decide the season if you don't use Points Per Game system? Look at Coventry situation who were going to win the league if we didn't have this Coronavirus. Is it fair that they don't go up? Is it fair to a club like Stanley to tell them to unfurlough their players and get them to sign new contract for a extra month costly Andy Holt money who is the chairman there so you can complete whilst he doesn't want to? Or look at Wycombe who has spent the longest in the top 2 all season and have still have 10 games to play where has other clubs have only 8 games to play but are outside the playoffs currently? SO how would you sort such a situation out in League 1? Imagine what an increase in Money received from EFL and Sponsorship would do for Wycombe or Coventry as club? is it fair on those clubs to miss on a substantial windfall that would improve the club and could be used to improve the football club?

This is very unique situation for the football world but they can find a way past these problems. 

In my opinion, you have made 2 huge errors in understanding my points, either accidentally or purposely which are clouding your judgement.

Number 1, you have misunderstood my suggestion. It is a simple rule, if leagues are completed, then promotions and relegations go ahead. Moving down the leagues, once you get to the point that a division CANNOT be completed, then at that point as a complete rule going downwards, there are no promotions/relegations. You cannot relegate and promote teams on incomplete seasons.

I have repeatedly said that my suggestion, accepting that as a minimum the top 2 divisions are going to be completed, Premier League and promotion chasing Championship clubs will NOT be affected as you seem to have misunderstood. Promotions and relegations between those divisions CAN be allowed because both divisions will have completed the full set of fixtures, including play offs, therefore it is then as fair as it is going to be to promote and relegate 3 clubs between these as normal. It is unfair to promote and relegate teams based on an unfinished season, that is my point, and extrapolating results is not a fair way of doing so, it is not the best remaining way to do so, it would make a mockery of the integrity of the football league. This would be typically prevalent where the lowest complete league meets the highest incomplete league, and you throw inconsistency into the mix, replacing teams that have played 46 teams from one league with games who have played 30 odd games.

Number 2, you have failed to grasp that there is NO 100% fair way in the current situation, and there will be winners and losers to all suggestions, so you cant sympathise and empathise with individual clubs and pander to them, you have to look at the overall picture. For every Coventry, there is a Peterborough, for every Wycombe, there is an Accrington Stanley, for every Charlton there is a Sunderland. Theres also a touch of personal bias mentioning Rovers but see point number 1 as to how we wont be affected anyway) All you can do is come up with the fairest way. Assuming that some divisions will be completed, how I have outlined in Point 1 is not perfect, no way is, but IMO the most consistent, fair and common sense approach to a very difficult situation. If they need to vote to determine if League 1 can be completed, then fine, and if it can, it still all falls under my proposal above.

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

it is extraordinary and unprecedented situation for most of world. But I also think it is very unfair that PL clubs want to take relegation off the table. The rules are there. Yes a degree in flexibility and common sense has been applied by them slowly coming back to training and no contact training yet. Plus flexibility to when the season will start and end by clubs voting for it and no one is forcing them to rush back. 

Clubs have been given a vote to vote for what they want. Yes of course every club will vote for what suits that and I wouldn't expect anything else. I don't know if you seen the 2 interviews last week with Joey Barton and Gareth Ainsworth that both managers want to play on cos they think their team would have got second place but both conceded that their club owner will do what is best for their club financially. Accrington Stanley's owner is against any return to football before next season cos most of players are out of contract and doesn't want to take them of the furlough scheme. But what you don't seem to understand is that the FL and its chairman Rick Parry has given the power to the clubs and their owners to decide so no one cannot complain the season isn't done a fair manner cos its their clubs choices. Yes Sunderland and Peterborough will miss out. Whilst clubs like Wycombe and Fleetwood make the top 6. 

Yes Hull's Owners want their season to end but their manager want to play on now he got his players back from injury. Barnsley and Charlton want to play on and fair play to them. WBA have said publicly they want to play on. But if you read my example from before against Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 and just outside the playoffs voted to end the season. 

Yes there is an agreement between the Premier League and FA that they will be relegation and promotion between the PL and FL. We all know  what the pandemic is and uniqueness of the situation including the clubs and players plus supporters. The PL and FL have got testing for players and so far we have minimal cases including just 2 positives test in the championship and I think just 2 in the last round of PL testing. 

 

What you dont seem to appreciate is that I am talking specifically where 2 leagues meet where one is completed and one isnt. 

The reason that I used the word flexibility is because you keep reverting back to rules set in stone in the early 90s that simply cannot be prioritised within such a unique situation. 

In League 2, it was a unanimous decision because it is logistically and financially impossible as agreed by all clubs to complete the season. Its not as straightforward above that.

I hardly think having an attitude of "decide amongst yourself" is showing great leadership. I was opposed to the restart at all on safety grounds and moral grounds but am looking past that now and accepting that some leagues are going to be completed. Its nothing to be excited about but its possibly the fairest way. But what I am clinging onto is that they should only complete the seasons to which the season can actually be completed. Clinging onto rules rigidly that simply do not account for such unprecedented events to try and justify a bizarre necessity to relegate and promote, even based on totally unfair formulaes makes absolutely zero sense and makes an absolute mockery of the supposed integrity and fairness of football in this country. 

I do think that allowing clubs to vote opens up a can of worms in terms of self interest but that is not my main expectation. I just cannot fathom why they are using this points per game shite. Whatever the leagues that can be completed, ie the Prem, Championship and if possible League 1, complete and award titles, promotions and relegations between those divisions. Beneath that, the divisions unfortunately CANNOT be completed so no promotions and relegations, including between the top division unable to be completed and the bottom division that is able to be completed. 

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Hes only 28 years old. 

So his peak years are now. 

Players make the wrong decisions at times due to agent's advice and following the money. For example Rudy Gestede. Feel like Van La Parra has done the same

Following the money is not necessarily a negative trait. A footballers career is short, some footballers see their career solely as a job and we are all motivated by money to some degree. Gestede made a move we all would have made in his situation, he on the back of success at Championship level joined at that time a club doing better and moved up a step.

His lack of recent football is a red flag and turning 29 soon you do question how long his primary asset of pace will last. That being said, my main analysis comes from having seen him play quite a few times at Wolves and mainly at Huddersfield. He has talent but has never shown it on a consistent basis ans is a very frustrating player.

I do think the wide positions are particularly weak at Rovers and should have been made priority this summer once the loanees had been replaced, had this been a normal summer. As it is, I suspect that this may prove very difficult considering the current situation. I dont think there will be anything in this rumour anyway if I had to guess.

I think any rumour like this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, even before considering the current situation, its seemingly an agent trying to drum up interest.

In terms of the player himself, he ticks a few boxes, a fast winger is something we desperately lack and hes free. But hes spent the peak years of his career playing very little football and hes incredibly frustrating and inconsistent. The type to score or assist and then do nothing at all for 7 or 8 games. One id swerve I think.

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wasn't Parry tho. It was the FA Chairman Greg Clarke who told PL clubs that they would be relegation this season one way or the other after press stories that certain teams want to stop any relegation this season. Its compulsory as the agreement between PL and FA when the Premier League was set up in 1991. That's why!!!

The League 2 clubs have voted to end the season in Points Per Game season. Port Vale who was 8th in League 2 voted to end the season and miss out on the playoffs. The clubs have a vote. Its a fairer way as some clubs don't want to un furlough their players and let their contracts run out. 

League 1 clubs have a vote shortly and I would guess the majority of clubs will vote to end the season on Points Per Game system and just have the playoffs. With the top 2 going up promote. 

 

Championship clubs will vote to resume the season

The agreement didnt account for such an extraordinary and unprecedented situation though. You can't just stick to that as if its a strict rule, if ever there was time for some flexibility...

All I am saying is that now it is clear that some leagues will be finished, surely some common sense comes in. The integrity of the season is long gone, no method of conclusion is fair.

But consistency is maybe all we can ask for. If you cant see the unfairness and the inconsistency of relegating 3 teams based on finishing a season behind closed doors, all games played at least, and then replacing them with 3 teams calculated on a formula who hadnt finished their season, then more fool you.

If you also cant see how teams in the main will vote for what suits their clubs current League situation then you are more naive than you think, its the obvious flaw of all of these votes. It was clear that League 2 clubs couldnt afford to finish and they did well to just universally agree but in the top 3 leagues there is potential scope to finish. Who was the first team in the Championship to ask for the season to be scrapped? A Hull team dropping like a stone. Whereas Charlton are desperate to finish. 

Your mindset is, there is an agreement, it has to be honoured and balls to the extent of the pandemic and the uniqueness of the situation, and balls to being flexible, the FA's decision will be the correct one.

Some consistency, common sense, flexibility and an acceptance that "sporting integrity" cannot be fully maintained regardless but as much as possible should be kept is what I ask. Not blindly accept that a rigid agreement made before a one off world wide pandemic justifies these bollocks formulaes that are being used.