roversfan99

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It’s not what other players could we use it’s what did we do with the players available. We can’t keep trotting out hard luck stories . Maybe last night I’m being harsh as a one off but there is always A reason we can’t compete. ALWAYS. We just need to sort the keeper, we just need to sort the defence, we just need dack back, we just need rothwell driving forward . We just a need a manager who can organise a team of 11 professional footballers from the squad of 30 odd players he’s assembled to be able to play as a unit and maybe just maybe have the odd shot in target

Spot on. We are also always *insert reason here* away from putting together a run of wins too.

Is there any striker for any of the other 23 sides in the division that anyone wouldnt swap for Gallagher or Brereton out of interest? I cant think of any.

4 hours ago, unsall said:

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

Watford are a bad example, of course they are a former Premier League team but they have had Gray, Deeney, Dele-Bashiru, Hughes, Capoue, Masina, Perica, Success and a few others all out, they did when they beat us. Reading beat us with possibly their best 2 players out in Ejaria and Swift. "Full strength" Boro last night where without Hall, Morsy and Fletcher as well as Roberts being not fit enough to do anything but make the numbers up. Derby have had loads of bad luck with injuries, Jozwiak got an injury, Rooney had to isolate, Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielek etc yet there was nobody saying it was an under strength Derby that we hammered. Bristol City have just suffered a number of serious injuries all at once. Preston have had loads of injuries. There are so many absentees at the moment across the league, we are particularly hard done to at the moment of course but also we arent on our own.

There is a balance to be had between of course having sympathy at the frustration of having so many absentees but equally not just giving the manager a clean slate when there are controllables within the remaining squad whereby Mowbray can constructively be criticised for. If you have 12m worth of attacking talent you can surely expect to have a meaningful attempt at goal at home to Middlesbrough? You surely can expect to take at least one semi successful set piece rather than wasting every single one through the tactical choice to keep going short?

But my main issue is with this assumption that as soon as we get a clean bill of health (or close to as that isnt realistic) that we will suddenly click into gear and go on a run. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Our form in 2020 has been piss poor, not just in the last 2 or 3 games in which admittedly the injury table or moreso the list of people isolating has really increased.

12 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I really can’t understand the Mowbray out prograde.

Well I sort of do, you think by right we should be in the Premier League. You think bin Mowbray, get gods knows who in and all of a sudden we will be EPL.
 

Infact from what I see most you think Damien Johnson is the answer, because you know, you lot love an insider.

The majority of you think Johnson was shit, yet we miss him. You said we don’t need Downing now, yet he was our best player last season and now you rejoice he’s back.

The majority have bummed Lenihan for last few years, but are now seeing the useless waste of space Williams is our best centre half.

The majority wrote of Brereton as a 19yr old flop, desperate for Chapman after his 2 good games in League 1.

The majority didn’t want Armstrong anymore, league 1 player, now our star man and top scorer of the league, yet still some aren’t sure cos our million pound man doesn’t finish every opportunity.

The disaster that is Mowbray built this squad you all adore. He is the reason we got promoted first time asking, he is the reason we have this squad, (as in Elliott Bennett) another who the majority want out.

The majority on here do not have the first clue. Honestly. It’s not good enough right now, but it’s no where near manager out time.

 

Very good job at making out anyone who questions the managers position to be doing so on crazy demands that we have to become a Premier League, have a divine right to do so and sacking Mowbray will instantly grant that wish.

The results are consistently inconsistent and underwhelming. This season, across 2020, across last season, its always nearly but not quite and id be amazed if anyone can constructively prove that we are going in the right direction. We just seem to be going sideways, middling along.

For 2 years now at least, most keen to defend the manager have done so by claiming that once a mitigating factor is corrected, that everything will fall in to place. Once we fix the defence, well weve actually signed decent players, Adarabioyo last season for one but now especially with Mowbrays expansive tactics the back 4 is more exposed than ever. If Dack is back, then things will fall into place. When we have a fully fit squad we can compete for the top 6, a fully fit squad is a luxury managers very rarely have, but do we start judging when Travis is back around Christmas and refrain from judgement until then at which point any slither of a chance of meeting our expectations might already be gone? Once Gallagher and Brereton start firing, there seemingly is more chance of pigs flying, the fact that we couldnt muster up a credible chance all game with a 12m strikeforce has to be pretty damning on the manager. Our reliance on Armstrong is unhealthy, he has been undoubtedly very good (and the one poster advising dropping him was obviously talking nonsense) but there shouldnt be such a reliance on him and such a drop to our other 2 strikers.

The one aspect that i disagree with quite a few is the quality of squad, I think that people overestimate the quality within it. I do think a new manager could get more from it however.

Just now, LeftWinger said:

This is categorically incorrect.

Sheffield Wednesday, Hull, Huddersfield, Bristol City, PNE, Derby, Barnsley, QPR have all lost more than Rovers. Charlton have lost the same amount from 7 fewer matches.
You can get statistics to say anything you want, particularly if you're making them up.

Rovers are the 2nd top scoring side in that period for instance (actual statistic). In fact only 5 of the 30 sides you mention have scored 40 goals or more. Rovers have 50.
Rovers have also got the 5th best goal difference out of the 30 sides.
Only half of those 30 sides has won 10 or more games. Rovers are one of those.
Rovers have scored the most goals away from homes out of any of the sides.

 

I got the stat from sky sports, I certainly did not just make it up.

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Nope, it’s not baseless to need your best players back in order to meet your potential. I genuinely believe we will get in the playoffs, yes.

SG and BB haven’t been good enough and IF we fail I believe their inability to effect games will be the sword TM lands on.

Rothwell on the left of a 3 man midfield has been a revelation this season. But even if you take the ‘myth’ out, how do write off the absence of Ayala, Trav, Dack and Arma who would probably get in any team in the division? 

I didnt deny that you need your best players available to hit your potential. I just remain unconvinced that the potential of this squad of players is top 6.

Not sure if any of those get in "any team" in the division, thats a huge call. Rothwell and revelation is beyond premature.

54 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Lads, if you need any direction on what football men think just listen to O’Neill and dare I say it Cook tonight.

Dack, Arma, Trav and Ayala get in any team in that division and are currently ALL injured. No team on the planet could thrive in that situation. 

I think Kaminski and Rothwell have been as bigger losses as those above based on form this season.

Anyone expecting us to ‘crack on’ with those abstractions is dreaming....get 75% of those back and we’ll be a completely different proposition. 

This has been the case for well over a year, we will be different if this that and the other happens and it is never ending. If the squad is fully fit, if Dack comes back, if we take our chances, if we fix the defence, if our 12m duo stop impersonating clowns. Do you genuinely think we will be near the play offs? There is no evidence at all, its all baseless hope.

You also said that Gallagher and Brereton needed to step up this season. Surely tonight was the perfect chance to step upand highly frustrating and worrying that they were again so out of their depth?

Rothwell has barely ever done anything, hes a myth who now hes been injured has turned into a key player.

Mowbray cannot be given a free pass for that horrible, dismal performance as much as there is an element of sympathy around the absentees. There are plenty of controllables that contributed to such a bad performance, one that cannot be celebrated at all. No chances of note at all, literally no shots in the second half. The usual suspects making the night to be a success in the circumstances, no chance.

The main thing is the obvious thing, 12m worth of shit. Can anyone accept the challenge to name a striker in the league that is worse than either of those? With Armstrong lethal in front of goal their incompetence is not a major issue when he plays, without him and Dack we needed them 2 to at least offer something and they were absolutely hopeless. Perhaps an indicator as to why Gallagher is not trusted centrally as much as he is even worse wide, touch of a donkey, and Brereton was no better. These 2 expensive mistakes will at some point signal the end of Mowbray and as soon as Armstrong inevitably goes there is reason to fear.

Set pieces are a good barometer of the manager and again they were embarassing. All short, all disorganised, all totally wasted. We had no attacking threat so surely use the set pieces to get something into the box.

I have been told that Rothwell has been such a miss for us, his second half performances can be added to the majority of appearances that he has made and donr absolutely nothing. Dolan looked again like a little boy lost, Elliott was really quiet again, Holtby again achieved nothing and Trybull can be rather ponderous, a major upgrade on Evans? Not so far.

Of course the main positive is the defence even if the defending was very last ditch. Pears made a couple of good saves although he may aswell stand outside the penalty box from corners such is his lack of presence.

We have to win on Saturday, our start has been really poor and we cant just write games off to hide behind injuries.

We have lost the 27th most matches in the league in 2020 from 30 teams that have been involved. Dismal.

5 minutes ago, Ruaney said:

Well for a start, he's started more games at a higher level than Pears. No doubt Championship is of a higher standard than Bulgaria L1 but the majority of Pears games have been at Gateshead. Take his Golden Boy nomination and caps at U21 level and you can already see that, that outweighs Pears' credentials? Weird to disagree with those facts I think.

I was being facetious about him being one of his favourites - lighten up!

 

Botton line is - It's evident to see that Pears isn't up to it. Leutweiler was crucified for a hell of a lot worse in his time here. Time to see if Stergiakos is up to it.

Its the level that Stergiakis has played at being assumed to be high enough to be relevant to the standard of the Championship.

In regards to playing at a level equal to or better than the Championship, Kaminski ticked that box.

Between the other 2, I suspect that the only relevant experience of any competent standard is Pears' 20 games at Championship level. His loan spell at Gateshead obviously is too low to be very relevant. But the Bulgarian league is 27th in the coefficients as I mentioned, behind the leagues in Kazahkstan, Azerbaijan and Belarus. I am not really sure that games in that league are warranted "credentials."

4 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Are you really being serious!?!?

Pears has about 20 games experience in the entire Football League across a 4+ year career.

Stergiakis has some 80 games' experience in the Bulgarian top league including Europa games.

There is simply no comparison in terms of experience and I would suggest ability (you don't play the number of games Stergiakis has at that level unless you are capable).

I think it's clear, Warnock didn't rate Pears and I know whose judgement (versus Mowbray) I trust on a footballer's abilities.

Based on his unconvincing appearances for us so far, I think Pears is a disaster waiting to happen.  A four year contract for Pears is, IMO, the height of footballing lunacy.  Just where was he going until Mowbray stepped in? 

Just now, tomphil said:

The lack of Champ experience didn't look to have affected Kaminski, if you're good enough you'll cope it's as simple as that.

Maybe Pears will but we are back to having a raw rookie keeper between the sticks already, someone with far less pro experience than the last number 2.  So there can be no surprises or excuses if it back fired.

Hopefully it won't but is this the real way to build a promotion squad ?  Not imo.

Again, I am not defending Pears individually, his first 2 games have really not given me much faith especially around his stature and also his positioning.

But I do think that sometimes there is a little bit more intrigue and excitement comes around signings from abroad than sometimes is necessary warranted.

Kaminski didnt have Championship experience but he had played hundreds of games at the top end of the Belgian League which is the 8th strongest top league in Europe. He is also in his late 20s and has plenty of experience full stop.

Stergiakis was playing in the Bulgarian league which is considered the 27th strongest top league in Europe, considered weaker than the leagues in Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Belarus.

He did also play in the Europa League this season when they were knocked out 2-1 in the first round to Albanian minnows Kukesi.

Even if "that level" was a seemingly high level Mercer, which it isnt, then surely you know that many players play beyond their level, Jason Lowe played hundreds of games for us.

3 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I make it 9 or 10 (depending if Rothwell back or not) - but agree appears inflated (unless of  course more players out than released.

I think hes including Vale and Butterworth who have a cameo in a dead rubber each.

Just now, Ruaney said:

Still baffling to me that Pears starts in goal tonight. Only been here 5 minutes and he's one of Mowbrays favourites. I wonder what he would have to do tonight for him to get dropped for the next game, he's already done more than required.

 

The Greek lad should be given a chance. Has better credentials for a start!

Im not sure he really does, they have played a similar number of games in their careers if you include Pears loan spell and half of Pears' games came at Championship level, I have no idea on the standard of Bulgarian football but I would be surprised if it is on par with Championship standard.

That isnt a defence of Pears who instilled no confidence in either game and looked like a little boy really, but I dont see how it can be baffling not to play a kid who has come from a backwater of European football who none of us had heard of prior to signing.

2 hours ago, Tom said:

May be the last midweek game I watch for a while.

No games on the red button this week, presume that will be the same going forward 

As someone with a season pass, it does actually rankle a little when the red button is regularly an option for the home games for which essentially I have paid a tenner for to be fair. I didnt know that prior to the season.

A happy medium would be that the games are a fiver a pop.

Im quite surprised to see a fair few suggest that he doesnt have the required quality, he gets into the team over most of our midfielders on quality. The only 2 question marks surely are the fact that he has only signed now and has missed the games in which we have been short, and also the risk (not helped with a 4 month gap) that age will have got the better of him. If he is the player we had last year he is right up there fighting with our first 11.

5 minutes ago, Butty said:

Yeah abuse was the wrong choice of word I take that back. I disagree massively on Del though, at left back he is a disaster but I think he’s fine at centre half. It’s Lenihan who is all over the place at the minute back there. 

I think they are both as bad as each other at the moment. Some is down to personal responsibility, some is down to the current tactics exposing them. At least Lenihan has a track record of improving our results with him in the team.

I think that "hindsight is a wonderful thing" has seemingly lost its literal meaning. I know that I was not alone in willing Mowbray to sub Armstrong as soon as I saw him clutch his hamstring, not as something I only became wise to after the game, indeed Armstrong DIDNT tear his hamstring so it didnt go as badly as it could have done.

It was not the same situation but Travis got a serious injury after continuing having taken a knock on an area of pre existing injury.

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He wasn't the only player totally ineffective against Forest & Cardiff. He was taken out of the team, fine, but that doesn't mean he's fizzled out, it means he was taken out of the team. Hard to play well if you're not playing.

No I never said that others didnt also underperform but specifically to Dolan, he didnt have "one 6/10 performance" before being dropped. He had a couple of exciting cameos, one in which a needless skill led to Bournemouths winner, a decent start at Newcastle, 2 impressive starts with goals and then 2 (not 1) games in which he was invisible. His initial start had dipped, it had fizzled out. Thats why he was then not playing, and he has struggled to get involved in his 3 cameos since. So a mixed bag, but thats not crirical, hes shown far more promise and provided much more contribution though than we would have expected for a kid released by PNE and signed for the kids team.

Anyway, my main point was that with Dolan we can dip him in and out, off the bench etc, we cant do that at CB with the kids in that position.

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing with you. If he scores at Swansea and got us a point or 3 points you would be praising Mowbray wouldnt you. If Armstrong says he is fine then you take his word. 

He not out long term tho..

No it is not based on hindsight, I said at the time that I wanted him to come off. Not only would a serious injury be catastrophic but he was clearly hindered by it and wasnt his usual self.

I presume you want him to play tomorrow and to take the risk again? Or is that a different situation because Mowbray wont be playing him?

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I think a draw here.  Fletcher is a nice player, not sure he is fit

He's torn his hamstring.

Whether its warranted or not im not sure that criticism on a forum can be deemed "abuse."

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing

Armstrong is very crucial to us as he is best striker and finisher at the club. Time for Gallagher to step up and prove his worth

Its not, I was saying at the time that we needed to take him off, he didnt look right and I spent the game worrying that he was going to get seriously injured. It was a stupid risk because if he is out long term, we are fucked.

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Armstrong did the injury before the 10th minute according to what I have read. 

Armstrong staying on the pitch was vital to getting owt from the game on Saturday

But we didnt get anything.

Surely we should play him tomorrow again risking serious injury because he is just as crucial to us getting anything then?

To be fair, Travis is a tough tackler and Johnson certainly isnt a playmaker, he cant pass wind yet he often sits in front of the back 4.

3 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

The problem with having that mentality is that Mowbray wont be here for ever and it is essentially accepting that we arent progressing too.

I certainly agree with your statement that is is small time to have such a stance although I dont think Potter is the best example, he did an unremarkable job at Swansea (which Cooper did better than) and he hasnt improved Brighton on Hughtons time there. Fools people thinking they play out from the back.

As you say Reading have managed to think outside the box even though I would not necessarily agree that their side is "nowhere near better than ours." They have some very good players throughout their team, Rafael Cabral is a keeper as good as most in the league, Moore and Morrison are very accomplished CBs at this level, their full backs are young and talented, Ejaria and when fit Swift are very talented, Olise is a real wonderkid and Meite heads a very decent stable of attackers. Im not convinced that our squad is better.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Dolan's tailed off because he's no longer getting serious game time. He had one 6/10 game after a train of 8's and 9's and was immediately dropped. I don't blame the player for that personally.

Im not sure about that, he had a few bright cameos where he looked promising without doing much substantial. He then played v Wycombe when he looked really good, not quite as good v Derby but still dangerous and got another goal then totally ineffective v Forest and Cardiff (with a few skills in counterproductive places ) and correctly taken out of the team. Im sure his time will come again.