roversfan99

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Rothwell had been available I wouldn't have start Trybull. 

I don't see Gallagher has playing on the wing in 4-3-3 but starting right of a front 3. Plus I would further inside playing against Watford left centre back in their back 3. 

Its on the wing, its wide. Weve done the pedantic nonsense before but as a winger, a wide striker, an inside forward, whatever you want to call it, he has never had a good game there.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Trybull is put in cos Rothwell self isolated and Evans poor performance. 

Elliott in due to Brereton and Dolan a break. 

Despite me wanting neither in cos I wanted a left back firstly. doesnt mean we dont use either now unless this is your new position that if a fan says he doesn't want a player it means he cant pick them now?

Not at all, but I just find it interesting that having been against the signings for fear of blocking the current players we have, youd chuck them in at the first opportunity.

Under no circumstances should Gallagher play on the wing. He NEVER has been effective there. Id rather play Pears there.

Just now, Vilesinner said:

Not sure he is an upgrade. Looked to me like his legs were gone towards the end of the season. Would rather Buckley get further opportunities.

Buckley I dont think did himself any favours on Saturday, he was really poor. I only really remember the Charlton away game in which Buckley has stamped his authority on. This is a season which with many key players being either in their final or moreso penulatimate year of their contract, a strong focus must be on trying to get up this year.

For the here and now, unless Downing has really fallen off a cliff, he is far more effective than Buckley at this time. He created far more chances than anyone else last season.

4 hours ago, wanderingrover said:

Mowbray may have targeted this game tactically more than Forest where a new manager made planning unpredictable. Could see him going with something like below. Johnson/Evans picking up Pedro when he drops in. Front 3 to stay high as much as possible...

 

              Kaminski

Nyambe  Ayala  Lenihan  Bell

        Johnson  Evans

                Holtby 

 Gallagher  Arma  Brereton

 

A point would be great if we could follow up with 3 at the weekend!

38 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

               Kaminski

Nyambe Ayala Lenihan Douglas

       Holtby Trybull Johnson

Gallagher  Armstrong  Elliott

 

Gallagher on the wing presumably against the evidence of him never ever having a good game from that position?

And chaddy, Elliott and Trybull straight in despite us not needing either player?

How do you get the full games on catch up?

7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

All that really proves is how much of a basket case we are as a club.

Balancing the books only counts for off field matters. Conversely it seems that on field matters simply depend on which side of the bed “Madame” gets on the day of the bi-annual Rovers budget meeting.

Can’t clean the stadium properly and would rather argue about who owns the land that makes our ground look like a scene from WALL-E rather than pay a few quid to clean it up. Yet we can add players and wages to our ever increasing pile of debt.

One thing that I would say amidst quite a lot of praise that I have seen for the owners by people clearly far more easily satisfied than me. (Maybe thats just me with ambitions above merely existing) But we havent really spent much at all this summer. A 450k reported fee for Kamimski and a nominal fee for Pears aside, no fees were spent. A free Greek youth keeper, 3 loans, a senior free agent and one intended for the under 23s. Im sure there may be modest signing on fees and potentially loan fees (although maybe not, maybe just wage contributions) and we have also seen Walton, Leutwiler, Fisher, Adarabioyo, Hart, Smallwood, Graham and at this stage Downing leave, so it seems more of a juggle of resources rather than an investment.

I also dont think that many of our key assets would have attracted much if any attention at this stage.

But I certainly agree regarding the generally illogical way in which the owners run the club.

Its quite interesting to look back on the front page of this thread to see how the window has panned out compared to what we expected.

On 04/07/2020 at 22:07, Stuart said:

It’s looking like we are going to need a heck of a facelift in the close season - although Mowbray will no doubt still try to get tunes out of Gallagher and Brereton, presumably still playing both out wide.

Personally I reckon there are five players in our senior squad that we should keep and the rest need replacing, either because loans end or simply because they aren’t good enough.

There is a possibility that a different manager could breathe new life into a few others: Downing, Rothwell, Holtby, maybe even the two above but I just can’t see how anything is going to change without a change in the dugout.

Stuart I think quite fairly suggested that only 5 of the team in Lenihan, Travis, Nyambe, Dack and Armstrong were good enough for the current starting 11. Obviously Armstrong plays up front and the system is different, but I think that potentially, Kaminski, Douglas, Ayala, Trybull and Elliott hopefully can/need to fill most of those other areas. The likes of Holtby, Johnson, Rothwell, Gallagher, Brereton etc need to also start contributing with some consistency.

On 05/07/2020 at 08:47, Kamy100 said:

It is going to be a summer of balancing the books.

With our biggest asset (Dack) not being sellable because of his injury, it will probably mean one or two off Lenihan, Travis or Arma having to be sold to help balance the books.

After that we are looking at freebies, loans and signing up and coming players from lower leagues.

We don't have the money for a major facelift for the squad.

On 05/07/2020 at 09:00, Parsonblue said:

Totally agree with this.  There will have to be departures to balance the books and only Lenihan, Travis, Armstrong and possibly Nyambe are going to attract bids.  One can easily see Fisher or Hilton being used as the back-up 'keeper whilst the likes of Wharton - unless he is sold - Magloire, Carter, Thompson, Vale, Butterworth become part of the senior squad in terms of filling the bench on matchdays or graduating to the starting eleven.  

Also these 2 posts were examples of many predictions that our main assets would have to be sold off and that kids would be making up the numbers which never materialised.

33 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Downing needs to be signed by end of today if we’re to do it, does he not? 

No, as long as there is a space in the squad registration which there is, then he can sign.

I dont see any benefit to constantly waiting though. Tomorrow night is our 6th game and even then, he wont be close to match fitness. He would have been a huge upgrade on Buckley and Evans on Saturday had he signed earlier, and indeed it seemed he was a low priority for Mowbray but he did sign Trybull yet still wants Downing aswell, so it is not as if it was one or the other.

Good podcast with Danny Graham here. Mentions his time at Rovers towards the end of it, describes his relationship with Mowbray as "love-hate" and mentioned him being unfairly punished and made an example of for being late after getting stuck on the motorway due to a car accident. Also mentions going vegan, his relationship with Mulgrew and Dack, Coyle being a laughing stock and his time with Lambert too.

I think Johnson has much more credit in the bank than Buckley after a good start to the season, whereas Buckley had a chance and fell massively short. Johnson should be played slightly further forward where he can offer a goal threat breaking forward with ideally Trybull sat in front of the back 4.

Dolan and Brereton have been equally poor in the last 2 games, in an ideal world both should be taken out of the side. 

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I still dont see the Armstrong wide left as an option. It never worked. How many goals did we concede when Armstrong did not backtrack leaving our full back exposed especially if the opposition plays an attacking right back.

Armstrong looks better in the middle, as does Dack. If we had a good target man Id say play them inside left and right feeding off the No.9 but we don't have one

I definitely would prefer Armstrong central and I think the best formation would be a 4-2-3-1 just so that him and Dack can both be central and essentially have the team built around them. With Elliott signing we hopefully have a bit more quality out wide where I dont think we are stocked with quality.

If we persist with the 4-3-3 though, I dont see much alternative but to go with Armstrong to the left. With a third central midfielder, it does massively reduce the defensive responsibility for the wide men in theory and because that Dack would not constantly stay right up front, it would potentially leave space to run in behind. Armstrong has also struggled to get involved on his own down the middle in the last 2 games because he becomes more reliant on those around him.

28 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

The fact 4-3-3 doe not suit Dack is irrelvent at the moment and has worked well on occassions this season. Its the lack of the ability to change it when its not working that is of concern

I get what you are saying to an extent but I suppose the first 5 results are not good enough to not at least bring the current system into question and debate.

It also could be a bit counter productive to be too focused on the formation and working within that formation if it is deemed that upon Dack's return, it would need to be changed to get him in.

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I enjoyed watching good performances as well as wins. I enjoyed our we outclassed a Newcastle team worth 100 million plus and the Bournemouth performance. 

No-one like losing and never will. 

 

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't disagree that our performance was poor but after an international break(again) plus Holtby out for paternity reasons, Rothwell and Williams having to self isolated. The midfield 3 look like it hasn't been worked out so thats would suggest those 3 werent down to start the game before Rothwell self isolated problem. 

I didnt enjoy watching either of those games particularly, of course mainly due to the results although the concept of entertainment is subjective and clearly we hold different opinions. In the Newcastle game, we did plenty of passing it across the back 4 in non dangerous areas but I never felt at any point during the night that we were likely to score, and so it proved. Against Bournemouth, I think the only 2 shots on target were the goals (one of which was a huge mistake by the goalkeeper from a speculative shot, surely if Lolley was lucky, again so was Johnson?!) and indeed I never felt that we was likely to win the game based on the performance.

Maybe it is slightly pedantic but Holtby and Trybull technically weren't unavailable, both were fit and well and in the latters case registered in time but ultimately Mowbray himself chose to grant Holtby paternity leave and leave Trybull out of consideration. Although the main issue was his use of the midfielders that he had left, Johnson is technically not very good and cant really pass but he is a powerful unit and a goal threat, whereas Evans is neat and tidy although if he goes over the half way line he gets a nosebleed. Why he put Johnson as the shield and Evans further forward is beyond me.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

It was genuine point as you don't enjoy the performances unless we win. We performed well at Bournemouth and Newcastle games. 

Well I didn't buy a season ticket due to being made redundant when they went on sale originally if you remember properly. Now with it looking increasing likely we won't be in stadium before March at the earlier. I not a fan of the Live I follow coverage and the time delay with the service. Now if you want to watch I follow coverage of Rovers that is fine with me But I know people who arent interested in watching Rovers this way. Yesterday I didn't watch or listen live to any of Forest game just for record. 

Forest manager has said they got a lucky deflection with their goal that was heading for nil nil all day long. 

Isnt that quite normal? I dont enjoy "good performances" (matter of opinion) if we lose and I never have.

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I said I would like us to gone 2 up front as a plan B option, But no guaranteed that it would have change the result at all. It would be interested to see Gallagher's heat map on his positional yesterday. 

The onus is both sides to be honest cos no games feel like normal home games as we have seen this weekend with only one home win in the entire league. With no fans instead, atmosphere is dead, No encouragement from fans. Cardiff and Forest are two very different teams for me. You cannot dominated every game and expect every players to be on song every game. But you do. Cardiff are a very solid team thats can play only 1 way. You failed to get Cardiff the credit they deserve for their performance. 

I do wonder at times what joy you get out of watching Rovers with your constantly criticism of the team, Mowbray and certain players. 

We didn't lose the Forest game cos of performance, tactics or effort but a lucky deflected goal. 

I suspect that questioning whether I get any joy out of watching Rovers is a pathetic argument made in the absence of anything more logical. I appreciate that people have different circumstances but seeing as I have bought a season pass amidst the uncertainty of being able to attend any time soon, whereas you are unwilling to purchase the games due to the production values and slight delay, then I also find it quite hypocritical that you have resorted to questioning whether I even enjoy watching Rovers in general.

To be honest, I dont get any enjoyment out of watching my team put in a really poor performance and lose a home game against a side yet to pick up a point, it put me in a bad mood because it was the opposite of what I wanted to see. If that in any way questions my enjoyment or purpose of being a Rovers fan to others then so be it.

In regards to yesterdays performance, I couldnt give a shit what a heat map shows about Gallaghers positioning, I could see using my eyes that he was again stuck on the wing and that Mowbray got his tactics wrong in regards to the positioning of our midfield and attack. To suggest that the result was purely down to luck, missing players who failed to perform in the previous game or indeed suggest that no alternative tactics could have made a difference is just shutting down any concept of debate and discussion over what caused a poor performance and poor result. Forest could argue that they were incredibly unlucky to hit the post just before the goal, and I didnt hear people suggesting that Johnson was very lucky to score a massively deflected goal the other week.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

2 different games for me. We sadly don't know how either would have gone. I think it would be very different with both on the pitch. 

for Me, Mowbray's tactics aren't the reason we lost yesterday at all. So that is very inaccurate to imply that at all. 

Chapman went central to run and dribble at them from the centre of the pitch similar to Rothwell role. You are very good with the hyperbole language. 

I did acknowledge the unavailability and I didnt specifically say that his tactics were "the reason we lost" but they certainly contributed.

You yourself said that Gallagher should have played central, under absolutely no circumstances should he be playing out wide, its amazing that the journalists interviewing him never really question him on it considering that it never ever works yet he keeps persisting with it. Chapman was totally anonymous and lost as a number 10, it didnt work at all. So yes, the tactical make up of our attack in the second half was wrong and the fact that we created absolutely nothing was of little surprise.

Something that I have repeatedly said is that Johnson should not be sitting in front of the back 4, he is not good enough technically to be trusted in that area and regularly gives the ball away. He did, he was typically sloppy in possession, Evans offered absolutely nothing in a role further forward which again he is not suited too, and Johnson's misplaced pass led to the winner.

The game was similar in that the onus was on us to break down a side and we never came close to doing so, we lacked ideas, we lacked tempo, we lacked craft. Holtby and in particular Rothwell certainly have ability but more often than not flatter to deceive, we would much rather have them available but considering that they had no effect v Cardiff and often have games were they are totally anonymous, its hard to put too much stock in their absence.

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Having watched the game for the1st time. Only found out the result yesterday evening. 

We badly missed Holtby and Rothwell. Holtby for his passing quick and eye for pass and Rothwell running and dribble ability. Buckley couldn't provide the spark need. Our back 4 were solid and look good defensive. Kaminski good. Had nil nil all over it until their lucky deflected gola

Would have like us to gone 4-4-2 in game second half with Gallagher and Armstrong up front

I can understand why Trybull and Douglas weren't on bench. Probably not even had a training session with the players yet. Elliott and Pears weren't signed in time for game with cut off time 12pm Friday dinnertime. 

We had both Holtby and Rothwell v Cardiff and they couldnt do anything in a very similar game, so I suspect that it is a little inaccurate to imply that with them, it would have been a different story.

Unavailability played a part but so did Mowbrays tactical mistakes. As you say, Gallagher should have gone central, and having him wide and Chapman as a 10 was bizarre. Also, having Johnson in front of the back 4 was costly.

6 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly..

The squad we have assembled is definitely top end championship (especially this season)

Unfortunately our manager is not one of the better ones in the Division , something that will become glaringly obvious in the coming weeks..

 

 

I am unsure on exactly how good our squad is at the moment. I still feel that with so many players, its just hope that they will have a good season in spite of what they have done so far.

That being said, the back 4 (never thought I would say this) looks very competent at this level with Ayala and hopefully Douglas, and we do have some real quality and goals in Armstrong and Dack. I just wonder if Mowbray will get them 2 into the team together in a way that suits both, and also about the contribution of basically every other attacking player, Rothwell, Chapman, Brereton, Dolan, Gallagher, Rankin Costello, Buckley, even Holtby who I rate above all of those but he hasnt done it consistently for us yet.

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will Holtby be back in time for the game from his paternity leave? 

Good question, I hope so because we need him.

The choice to allow Holtby is an interesting one. Many managers would have expected him back for the game with his baby born a few days beforehand, especially with our depleted squad. Mowbray has been very generous.

1 hour ago, Kie_BRFC said:

In other news, glad we didn’t sign that Freeman when we were linked last summer. Fat, lazy and a gobshite 

Scored an absolute belter in the last game plus scored 8 and assisted 6 in his last season at this level. If we had signed him, maybe we wouldnt have been lumbered with Brereton.

1 hour ago, Fraserkirky said:

Can’t believe folk are posting teams again without Rothwell in them. First name on the team sheet for me.

How? Over Armstrong, Kaminski, Ayala, Lenihan, Nyambe etc? He repeatedly flatters to deceive, he played against Cardiff in a similar game and was totally ineffective when the onus was on him to unlock a stubborn defence. I hope this is the season that it all comes together but hope more than expect.

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Draw last week, potential win, but at least a draw today. Both are tough away games. We’ll see how Rovers get on away from home. But right now I fear we’re going to become the side that has all the fancy flicks and no results.

I’m growing frustrated with the new 4-3-3 system, I don’t think it suits Dack, it doesn’t play well if the press isn’t at 95% and above either.

I’d like to see a tactical response to a lack of players due to injury, rather than fielding a mismatch midfield three and complaining about it after-the-fact.

I’m usually in the positive post-match camp and I am quite vocally supportive of Tony Mowbray and the club, but I was annoyed that from 30 mins into the Forest game I knew exactly what was going to happen - and then it did.

I dont see the need for "positive" and "negative" camps but I certainly share some of your tactical doubts and misgivings. I think that the perception of our start is perhaps skewed by the manner of the 2 wins but 7 points from 5 is an average start and puts pressure on at least avoiding defeat on Wednesday night.

Our home form in terms of avoiding defeats is usually good but there are always far too many draws because I am not convinced that we have the craft or imagination in the team or enough quality attacking options to break teams down. I share your scepticism towards the system when Dack goes back, anyone who doesnt think that Dack walks into this team is in denial and ultimately the best system is the one that gets the best from him and Armstrong. Does 4-3-3 do that? Possibly not.

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly.

We have so many attacking players in which we need "breakthrough seasons" in that the players have attributes to do certain things but have never produced with any regularity. Mowbray bemoaned the absence of Rothwell yesterday but he was totally ineffective against Cardiff in a similar game and has been all promise and no end product throughout his time here. I keep hearing that this will be Brereton's breakthrough season but there is just nothing at the end of his game, his off the ball movement is really poor too, the amount of times that for example the full back or a midfielder will have the ball and rather than having any intention of making a clever run or getting into the box, he just drops deep and asks for the ball 5 yards away, often in close attention of a defender. Holtby undoubtedly has more talent than those 2 players but even he has yet to really produce regularly in a Rovers shirt. Rankin Costello was another missing yesterday, has he done anything in the first team so far to suggest that he would have made a difference yesterday? Dolan even in his good games looks very raw, often trying tricks to our detriment and ultimately he has a lot of development in front of him, and Chapman looks a busted flush. There is obviously the ongoing frustrations with Gallagher and we have a lot of reliance now on a 17 year old kid on loan who is highly rated and exciting (the likes of Brereton, Rankin Costello, Dolan etc wouldnt even be still at Liverpool never mind on the fringes of the first team squad) and hopefully gives us something new but is not of the same proven record as other clubs signing the likes of Harry Wilson and Anthony Knockaert on deadline day.

Mowbray also makes perplexing tactical decisions which do not help us trying to win games. This Gallagher on the wing shite is really infuriating and yesterday to have Armstrong as a lone striker, Chapman as a number 10 and Gallagher on the right was downright bizarre. Having Johnson who is a serious goal threat but a liability in front of his defence on the ball and Evans further forward with an onus to get forward was totally illogical too.

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Cardiff showing yet again right now against PNE that playing with a solid defensive shape and hitting on the counter is the way to win games of football in the Championship.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, Cardiff didnt manage to do that here and we will need to find a way to be able to break teams down if we have serious aspirations of a top 6 finish, no team can solely rely on counter attacking.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Elliott, Douglas and Trybull aren’t starting this game. It’s dreamland. We know Mowbray, we’ve heard the interviews. We need to be realistic in terms of our expectations for what the Starting XI will be.

The side I picked was not the one that I expect Mowbray to pick, and I havent seen any interviews. It is the one that I would pick.

You mention continuity but the last couple of performances have been dire, and changing a few might provoke that to change.

I have always felt that beyond the goalscoring of Armstrong and when fit Dack, I am not convinced by the supporting cast, but we definitely need to change things up there. I wouldnt ideally want Gallagher to start games (especially as it leaves no strikers on the bench) but I see little alternative.

He seemingly has more in the forlorn hope that Brereton will start contributing, so maybe he will give him another game, for me he has to be dropped.

Likewise with Dolan, I was criticised for suggesting that we were getting excited prematurely after a couple of games, he is so raw and has been totally ineffective, and needs to learn to only do tricks in the right area. He hasnt played a senior game before this season, taking him out for now and 

If I had to guess what Mowbray will do, it will be Armstrong central, Gallagher wide, and one other from Dolan, Brereton and if fit, Rankin Costello.

Douglas is obviously better than Bell, who was typically frustrating yesterday, technically sloppy and in a home game that demanded him to go forward, he was totally ineffective in attacking areas, I dont remember one accurate cross from either full back. Mowbray thinks that he has been "excellent" which I hope is purely a case of man management but Douglas with Nyambe, Lenihan and Ayala is our best defence and Bell hasnt been particularly good individually, so surely if fitness permits going to our best defence if anything is good for continuity?

In midfield, if I was to predict what Mowbray will do, Johnson will be in front of the back 4 which exposes his weaknesses. I would play Trybull there if fitness provides, if not we probably have little choice but to put Evans there, in a role that doesnt require him to be creative. Johnson and ideally Holtby can play in front of him and if the latter is still on paternity leave, we really do have a problem as I am unsure who else we can play there.

Hopefully we can make a few changes to freshen things up. I think Dolan and Brereton need to come out of the team, Elliott should come in and with Dack still out and Rothwell likely to be out isolating, I see little choice but to give Gallagher a shot. Armstrong has struggled to get involved so have him from the left, under no circumstances should Gallagher play wide. Douglas needs to come in at left back, we look weak in central midfield so hopefully Holtbys extended paternity wont extend to Wednesday, and hopefully Trybull can sit in front of the back 4. If Downing signs prior, get him on the bench over Bell.

Kaminski

Nyambe Ayala Lenihan Douglas

Trybull

Holtby Johnson

Elliott Gallagher Armstrong 

Subs: Pears, Williams/Wharton, Rankin Costello, Bell, Evans, Brereton, Dolan

Its an important game. Lose a very difficult fixture and 7 points from 6 games is not the best start.

If someone doesnt rate a player, a forum is the perfect place to share such an opinion. I dont see how that warrants comments about the relief of the poster not working for the club, it doesnt mean that in that scenario he would just repeatedly tell the player how much he doesnt rate him.

There is also an element of hypocrisy in saying that you "dont see much in Grayson" only to immediately follow it by saying that you wouldnt say so on a public forum!

1 hour ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Johnson isn’t an attacking player. He’s just as slow as Evans. Just has more technical ability and a better boot on him. Never an attacking player. Seems to huff and puff after making a 10 yard dart.

I disagree that Johnson is technically better than Evans. Evans is very limited but he is neat and tidy, you can give him the ball on the half turn and he wont usually give it away. Johnson is really poor technically, it was his poor pass that led to the winner and he has tried to pick the ball up off the defence countless times and had the ball taken off him in his time here, he has been lucky that it hasnt led to more goals. He is a powerful player though and has scored lots of goals at this level.