roversfan99

Dont forget the one who wasnt part of that defence who was signed by Mowbray and is by far the worst of the lot and the worst left back in the league.

To be fair, I would certainly have Dunk, Tarkowski and maybe one or two others over the uselese Eric Dier.

I will be interested to see if the following line is continued post season ticket release later in the week:

"How can you sell tickets for a game that might never happen?"

I dont think that Garner would be someone either feasible or affordable permanently, as with Adarabioyo. No real senior football again a worry. If he is better than what we have though, which I havent a clue, then sure. But lots of questions about that.

As it is, seems that half the Championship are linked so presumably nothing in it.

10 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

I was informed it was £2m up front, £500k over seasons 1-4 plus additions it goals scored and promotion. Now I don’t know if this is 100% right but if it is it’s £3m to date!

Mowbray when defending Brereton has regularly referenced the considerable price tag, you would think that he would mention if the fee was considerably lower because that could help reduce the expectations perhaps.

https://the72.co.uk/191096/spanish-side-keen-on-recently-released-middlesbrough-defender-swansea-and-stoke-still-interested/

Ayala interesting Cadiz.

https://the72.co.uk/191101/bournemouth-eyeing-spurs-defender-luton-town-also-keen/

Carter Vickers interesting Bournemouth and Luton.

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

@roversfan99 I didn’t claim JRC was world class, someone else did, my agreement was with the statement that he would do well for us this season and surprise people. He’s evidently not a world class player.

No I know, sorry my post included 2 quotes regarding JRC. My quotes to you where more regarding that people are hesitant. Ultimately I think people seem to be excited to see him to be fair but a this stage he has not proven himself as a first team capable wide man, obviously mainly because he has hardly played there, hence why at the moment we cant be sure.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

And we still have a budget tho dont we or are you still using a quote from 7 weeks ago? 

The point was, you used the rumour to prove that we had a budget a time when Mowbray said that he had no clarity from India, ie you had the rumour as fact.

Now, 7 weeks later and obviously in which time the budget must have been agreed and there is no reason to defend that side of things anymore, the rumour is less a fact and more a source of mockery to you.

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well when we having player in talks generally an official bid has been accepted..

Now 6 weeks on he is still at Doncaster 

So clearly we had no official bid in for the player otherwise he would be here by now

As a sign of how contradictory your posts are, you used the initial rumour as proof that Mowbray must have had a budget.

4 hours ago, AJW said:

What you are saying does make a lot of sense , but fans are not that patient and to finish 21st in this league means losing a lot , losing games to teams we feel we shouldn’t , the mob will get angry and frustrated and before you know it those young players  you mention will find themselves playing in a poisonous atmosphere 

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

@J*B prob hit the nail on the head. They’ve likely tried now to get Kipre and Mawson as top targets and been done financially on both deals...so they’re onto the ‘other’ names on the list.

I also agree that if we can’t get into the top 6 in reality, which the Combined budget suggests it’s going to be tough then I would also pull this ‘mid level budget’ for all players other than those we can develop and increase In value.

I would rather them play one of Carter or Wharton next to Lenihan than pay another loan fee plus wages for Tosin (who I love btw). Kipre was a no brainer at £900k. He’d have been worth £5m to us by next summer and will be worth at least that and prob more to West Brom  in the PL.

My friend who’s a first team coach in the Championship reckons Ayala wants £40k a week which corroborates with Crookes info. Whilst Ayala would be a fantastic signing, there’s no point putting a 30 odd year old on a 2/3 year contract on £40k per week with no resale value unless he’s the final piece of the jigsaw. 

I think fans would have a right not be content should we essentially throw the towel in on any promotion ambition before the season started. Obviously stopping short at phrases like "poisonous atmosphere" and "mob will be angry and frustrated" but I would be unhappy should we take such a mindset, as we have seen at Boro. 

It isnt as if our current team and many of our key assets arent youngsters anyway, so it isnt as if we are focusing on short term in an attempt to gamble to get a top 6 finish that is less than 50% likely. Armstrong, Travis, Nyambe and although slightly older Dack and Lenihan are the first names on the team sheet. Gallagher plays more often than not, Brereton seems to be getting more and more game time, Rankin Costello seems to be considered a first teamer then we have the likes of Buckley, Davenport and maybe now Wharton as regulars in the first team squad. Theres plenty of scope for players developing there but very much within us naming our best team. 

I wouldnt want to see us prioritise development over results though, I think we can prioritise results whilst developing with the players mentioned above. i wouldnt want to see Carter chucked in (he was well off when he got a taster last season) for example even if the only alternative was a loan deal, which it isnt, I would prefer an Adarabioyo because he would be a massive upgrade and I care about the team winning games first and foremost. And I dont think thats me being really impatent or being part of a baying mob demanding success now, but you cant put anything above results as the primary priority.

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

I will bet on us this year for promotion.

Our young guns are ever improving. 

JRC will be world class imo. 

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Agreed, many are hesitant to him and I don't know why, if you're good enough you're old enough for me.

Been watching him for years and he's a TOP talent, can't wait to see him thrive this year.

World class is laughable. And I think the reason that people are "hesitant" is because at the moment, he has yet to fully establish himself in the first team. There is an element of doubt as to how good and how effective he can be. He has played maybe a dozen first team competitive games, mainly out of position at left back where he let nobody down but it certainly isnt a position he will play long term. He hasnt as of yet really had more than a couple of chances in attacking positions, and when he did he didnt come onto the scene with a bang.

You may have been watching him but predominantly for the reserves and until he does it at senior level rather than with the kids and shows that he can get goals and assists there, then people will see him less of a hope for the future and more of a player for the here and now.

I would like to see him start the first game, be very much around the first team this season and hopefully he does thrive because that will make everyone happy.

30 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

Stating the obvious but it's almost certain we'll be starting the early part of the season without any reinforcements aside from our new GK obviously. In that case, we have to go with a CB pairing of Lenihan and Williams IMO. The absolute key signing was a GK so thankfully we have got one of those in. I would dread to think how many soft goals we would have lost if Fisher had to start the season in goal for us. As it stands, we are staring at a lower mid finish in the league. 

Personally, I think we'll see Liam Lindsay end up here as our main CB signing. TM is known admirer and he'll be within our price range. 

I am not sure if Lindsay is within our price range. He joined Stoke for £2-2.5m and I think they were reported as wanting that back, and we cant afford 7 figure fees.

1 hour ago, J*B said:

My approach as chairman would be quite simple - I would ask Mowbray if he was confident we would finish in the top 6 with the footballing budget allocated. If he said no, I would immediately remove a large % of the budget and ask him to play/develop the kids. If we are struggling in January the budget is still there to bring in enough quality players on short term loans to ensure we don’t go down. As long as we don’t go down all we have done is given opportunities for our own young players to either shine and become valuable assets or prove they are not currently up to the job. 

Surely its not as simple as being "confident" in finishing top 6 and if not, then playing loads of kids. If individuals are good enough, by all means play them but unless for example you have 10/15 games left and you are comfortably in mid table, when by all means start to experiment, but you cant just go and play too many kids off the bat at the start of the season unless they are genuinely amidst your best 11. Even if you think you have a 25% chance of a top 6 finish, you have to push for it for what the potential reward is rather than prioritising development too much over results. Although to be honest, we have a young side anyway so there are plenty of players who develop even whilst playing our best team without pushing it too far. It isnt in the youngsters best interests either to chuck too many in together and it is in the best interest of everyone to get enough experience amidst it all.

Not that I am endorsing becoming over reliant on loan players, as you said they should be the final push to get the over line which I totally agree with. I also dont think we should be loaning Stoke reserves as has been suggested. The main issue with us is how we have spent money under Mowbray all in attacking areas, and theres not that base of permanent defenders whereby a loan like Adarabioyo is the cherry on top of the cake. Even if somehow we could get him again, which I would welcome even on loan, we still need at least one permanent CB and LB for it to make sense.

A good example would be Boro. They finished 7th under Pulis without really using the academy, then flipped 180 degrees and made a big deal about playing kids under Woodgate as the primary objective so surely last season was more successful than the season before and Woodgate should have stayed on? Pulis was solely short term, no consideration to playing youth and so close to a top 6 finish. Whereas Woodgate was solely prioritising playing kids and results become almost a secondary objective. The ideal approach is a hybrid but closer to Pulis than Woodgate, you cant prioritise development to the point when results are not of primary importance.

To go off on a tangent, the key is to judge the manager on who he signs (and when) rather than getting too caught up in the rumours on what he might have tried to do. The mystery second defender that we have missed out on has been revealed as both Ayala and Mawson within a couple of pages, and Ayalas potential wage has varied by 20k. Rumours aside, all that matters is who we do bring in. 

For me, the idea of Venkys having enough of an interest and indeed knowledge of specific positons to insist on no defender purchases seems crazy. The most obvious reason for our recent reluctance to buy defenders is the manager. He has shown the same negligent towards his defence at previous jobs including his last one. He deserves the blame. Prior to him, we had Hanley who serves us well from the academy, paid good money for Dann and when he was sold, paid a fee for Duffy who again was a success. Then there was a period when the assets all over the pitch were sold and replaced by frees then we had Lenihan again from the academy and Mulgrew.

Also, it would make little sense spending a fee on Pears to be number 2. An experienced freebie makes more sense compared to buying someone who needs to develop, not sit on a bench.

We have lost players from our squad totalling 29.1% of the minutes played.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

And what fee do we get if he goes to club overseas like a French club? (genuine question)

and Norway arent missing him either. 

King needs to sort out his future out soon

Why does he? Because it benefits us? King may not have had an offer at all yet, or if he has, an offer that he considers to be worthwhile both in terms of club and finances. We cant rely on things like that regarding our own budget. If he or any other player we have a sell on clause regarding moves on, it should be treat as a bonus as and when it occurs, not as something we wait around for and are reliant on.

Compensation is massively reduced abroad I think but I have no reason to suspect that Nyambe wouldnt sign a new deal and it is probably our own lack of having our house in order that has let him get into the last year of his deal, baring in mind he is one of only 2 competent defenders that we have.

24 minutes ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

I truly believe we are waiting for Josh King to leave Bournemouth. I reckon Tony wants a higher quality centre half than the names already mentioned. 

It would be crazy to hold off doing any business on the hope that a player at another club gets sold and we get a small chunk of it, what happens if he isnt sold? What happens if he gets sold on the last day of the window?

We have struggled in the past to get deals over the line, to work on more than one deal at once and to appreciate the need for a fast start to a season. I very much doubt that we are waiting for a transfer to happen elsewhere to kick start things as some sort of strategy. 

A point about Nyambe and Rankin Costello, especially the former, he is in the last year of his deal and there have been suggestions that we could sell him should he be unwilling to renew, which I have no reason to believe he has, they at least wouldnt be able to go for nothing, assuming they stayed in England, we would get something due to their age.

No way does Adarabioyo get sold for 4m either.

3 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Very bizarre indeed.

Completely agree on your further points.

The silence and lack of rumours is deafening and frightening.

Huge chance for us to kick on a potentially push for play offs IF we make the correct signings and soon.

I fear Mowbray is far too comfortable to put pressure on himself with ambitious signings.

It isnt even the lack of rumours for me, as no journalists really seem on the ball. Can only judge the manager on what he does get over the line. At the moment, even compared to last seasons mid table squad, we are short.

Even though Rich Sharpe has said that it is very quiet, even then, he for example was nowhere near the Kaminski deal. Although his comments are a little alarming.

Ultimately for me it is the fact that it happens every year really. We first have the needless delays that come from having this constant handicap of negligent owners. 

Last year, defensive reinforcements took an age to get over the line, we lost our first 2 games with our defenders, both on loan, done very late on in the window.

I am also unconvinced that Mowbray has either the capability to navigate the window in terms of getting the players we need, we have signed some good players under him but our squad is so imbalanced considering the time and money he has had. And also the ability to get signings over the line.

Last summer, the window was half about the players we didnt get, we missed out on Bauer, he bemoaned the loss of 2 mystery foreign keepers and loaned in a clown to replace the cheaply sold Raya, and there was also Maher. It was a summer of missed opportunities and temporary stop gaps, and I am getting a sense of de ja vu. 

For example, Kipre was unfortunate, but we arent only in need of a centre back, in which case there may be a little more patience. Even if he had to move on to option B as his main CB, he needs 2 CB's, a left back, another keeper, etc, surely he hasnt just missed out on his main target in all of them areas, and if he has, then there is something wrong. It seems to be one at a time.

There is no way that the current squad, which has Amarii Bell as first choice left back and Derrick Williams as one of the first choice (and one of only 2 senior CB's who himself could be about to leave) centre backs, and as @JHRover points out is also missing more than just Adarabioyo from last seasons mid table squad, is a top 6 squad all of a sudden.

1 minute ago, philipl said:

Two transfer deadline days.

5 Oct for Prem incomings

16 Oct for Prem outgoings and the EFL.

Plenty of time to hit 1,000 pages on this thread!

And any signings made on deadline day would presumably be unavailable for the Forest game the next day, ie our 5th League game of the season. 

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Chaddy sorry mate you're wrong here. 

2 weeks out of 1-5 years is absolutely nothing. 

It would have zero impact on a signing unless we had some serious injury to kaminski where we were desperate for a new first team keeper asap.

 

Certainly bizarre to advocate waiting as long as is necessary to sign players yet dismiss foreign players due to a potential 2 week quarantine, especially when our only signing thus far has been required to quarantine, which is not ideal but still leaves him training today and ready for the first game.

Its just further excuses. There was and still is nothing stopping us from signing playing in Europe, as we have already done with Kaminski, and had we got it done early enough as we did with Kaminski, it wouldnt have been anything other than a minor inconvenience. As it is, even if he missed 2 games, not great but will a domestic player be here any quicker?! Probably not.

I dont care where we sign players from as long as they are good enough, but there seems to be neither any urgency nor any ability to work on more than one deal!

And ultimately, the manager should be judged on players that he is able to get signed, not the ones he missed out on.

Be amazed if we paid a fee for a goalkeeper and if he came seemingly to be number 2 when he can do that (if not number 1) at his boyhood club. Think thats an old rumour.

Just now, JHRover said:

I think the one Sharp is referring to is Ayala. He's been training with us but he has decided to go aabroad instead 

Has he been training with us? i read he was training with Nantwich Town.

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It'll be the same story as last summer hanging round after the season has already kicked off and we're off to a bad start sitting there forlornly with puppy dog eyes hoping that a Premier League Club will do us a massive favour and a few crumbs will fall off the Premier League loan table.

Then if we do get reasonably lucky like we did last year with Tosin that will no doubt be paraded as having been the plan A all along.

The inability to close deals or seemingly work on more than one at once just continues to hinder us. Even if a CB deal has fallen through, we need 2 so why are we only working on 1? Why arent we trying to get a left back in at the same time.

You are right, we will end up with a kid on loan.

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He played in 31 of their games last season. Pearce played in 36. Sounds to me like 90% of the time they were playing together?

They had Tom Lockyer, a right footed CB who played all 43 games that he was available, and someone I suggested that we signed prior to joining Luton.

Pearce started 35 and was sub the other 11, and Sarr started 26 and was sub 17 times.

Charlton played with 3 centre backs quite a lot though, but when they played 2, Bowyer seemed to often trust Jason Pearce who is just a journeyman but a lot more conservative than Sarr.

I wonder if Sarr is the player who is going elsewhere?

The words "if they can get them" very much key here.

Its another farce of a transfer window. Under the potent mix of Mowbray and Venkys, it often seems like we struggle to get deals over the line. Was the same last summer. Wanted Bauer, failed to get it done, ended up with a loan. Supposedly tried to get 2 mystery foreign keepers, ended up with Walton on loan. Supposedly made contact over Maher, couldnt get that done. And theres never any urgency.

If Kipre was our main target, he moved elsewhere, and then plan B is close to doing the same, that might explain the struggle if we needed one player.

But we need 2 CB's, not 1, we badly need a left back, we need another keeper and perhaps a wide man and central midfielder. Why are we only capable of working on and inevitably failing at one deal at a time?