When does it become acceptable for a supporter to judge a players technical ability? Is it possible for me or you to ever judge someone who plays for Real Madrid, Man United or Macclesfield? I’ve seen more of Brereton than I’ve seen of any of their players. Really, it’s more about how Brereton is able to contribute, which in his first season was very little. He did more bad than good. I’d also point out we’ve had plenty of players who are widely accepted as technically lacking (Savage being a prime example) who have contributed plenty, whereas someone like Rochina who had all the technique in the world was pretty ineffective. Besides, if he had as much technical ability, or as much ability to influence as we’ve a right to expect of a £7 million signing, surely he’d have been given more first team opportunities?

Nyambe was 17 when he made his debut. Plenty of people immediately wrote him off and still insist he is shit to this day. If he’d have cost 7 million quid perhaps people would have been a bit more willing to see him succeed - cos I’ve seen the argument on here in the last few days that Brereton must be good, because we paid all that money for him. Nobody has any personal issue with Brereton. People question his performances and ability, same as every player in the world is judged by supporters. He has received tremendous backing from supporters. A collective groan, a piss taking tweet, or a “bloody hell Brereton” uttered in frustration isn’t stick. Cast your mind back to the abuse and boos Keith Andrews (a midfielder, playing in the premier league, with a better goals to game ratio than Brereton) got, and ask yourself if BB is really that hard done by. Some people make the argument that the transfer fee isn’t all that high... without the same old discussions around flex, add ons and whatever else... in simple terms - The quoted transfer fee we paid for Brereton was more than we paid for the rest of the squad combined. - We are frequently reminded how fortunate we are that the owners continue to find out academy. With plenty of graduates playing key roles in our first team, it’s clearly a worthwhile investment, yet we are expected to be pathetically grateful it hasn’t been shelved. The amount we spent on Brereton would keep it going for 2-3 years. Again, I really don’t think questioning the Brereton signing is in any way unreasonable, and I will bet good money there are people within the club who have asked questions too.

The fact that he has only managed a handful of appearances is precisely the reason people are questioning the wisdom of the signing.

Wow, I hadn’t seen that they had slipped that low. I wonder how bad things would have to get for the TV networks to do something drastic? I am not certain of how their deals are structured, but there could come a point where they decide enough is enough and cancel it. Wrestling was traditionally seen as cheap programming for networks, but those days are long gone. They have paid top dollar and I’m sure they are alarmed at those viewing figures.

This 5 minutes of TV is infinitely better than anything WWE have put out in years!

I think people taking a wait and see approach to renewing is far more complicated than just “seeing who we sign”. At the consultation meeting, both Mowbray and Waggott categorically stated that Mowbray was in control of all signings. He is given a budget and allowed to sign players within its confines with no interference from Venky’s. I had long suspected the opposite. They were both also quick to shoot down any suggestion that Venky’s had an aversion to spending money on defenders, and acknowledged this was an area of the team that needed urgent improvement and investment. If we go into the first game of next season with either Mulgrew or Williams (or Bauer) starting alongside Lenihan, not only will we struggle, it will also make a mockery out of everything they said. Even if we spend relatively big money on a striker, or a “project player”, and stuck a few ageing midfielders in there as well, it would just be more of the same, and not only would it further cement my suspicions of Venky’s interference and raise questions around their motivations when it comes to signings, it would also damage Waggott and Mowbray’s credibility massively in my eyes. I’d see them as, at best, puppets incapable of exerting enough influence and common sense on the owners, or at worst, liars.

Those couple of early spears should have done it. If they were that desperate for Undertaker to go over then he should have slapped Hells Gate on... would have actually looked good with the blood pissing from his head! They were both visibly struggling with basic movement, never mind anything resembling a power move. You could see Goldberg slipping through Takers grasp on the tombstone. Undertaker can’t kick his legs up enough for a jackhammer, and he’s too big and Goldberg far too knackered by that point to use enough brute force. Goldberg is no doubt going to take the majority of the flak, but Undertaker was no less culpable. The majority of the blame needs to go to whoever allowed it to happen in the first place though.

Just watched the last few matches of Super Showdown. HHH v Orton - dull, decent ending. Kofi v Ziggler - decent enough Lashley v Braun - didn’t pay much attention Battle Royal - great moment and crowd reaction with the winner... otherwise typical battle Royal fare Goldberg v Taker - started off well, by the end I was genuinely worried for both their safety. Lucky someone wasn’t badly hurt

Big fan of Sheamus. I’d have liked to have seen him have a longer run as heel champ and a top guy, but I think the way his career has gone is typical of the times. I think he’d have really excelled if he’d have been 5 years earlier. That said, his career has been stellar, and his recent run with Cesar showed how good but undervalued the pair of them are. Workout buddy of HHH apparently, which I think has helped cement him as a company man for life, rather than Wade Barrett for example. I loved Prince Devitt, but I can’t get anywhere near as interested in Finn Balor, particularly these days. The injuries certainly haven’t helped, but I think he was a better fit outside WWE... The buzz around bullet club seems so long ago, and it’s weird to think he was tearing it up in Preston for PCW just 5 years ago.

1. Rick Rude. The ultimate heel. Every major feud he had was really memorable. 100% believable in the ring, and being managed by Heenan always helps. 2. Scott Hall. Big nWo fan, and Hall was the workhorse of the top tier of the group. Underrated as a worker even during his Razor run. 3. Jake Roberts. Intense, one of the best promos ever, no wasted motion, equally superb as a face or heel. Honourable mentions: Kurt Angle, The Rock, Bobby Eaton, Regal, Steiner, Booker T Current top 3: Samoa Joe, Zack Gibson, MJF

Agreed. I’d add Miz’s Skull crushing finale to that list very near the top. Two of my favourite ever finishers - Jake Roberts DDT, and Rick Rude’s Rude Awakening. Executed perfectly and with decent psychology behind them, and the physics of them make sense. Sadly these days finishers (perhaps aside from the RKO) aren’t protected... on any given Raw people kick out of them. Not to mention most matches now contain at least 3 spots that would have resulted in an injury angle even as recently as the attitude era. To quote Cornette “nowadays the most deadly move is a school boy roll up”.

You aren’t wrong there. Lionheart - Scottish wrestler, really good hand, seasoned pro broke his neck v styles in Preston a few years back. Just tucked his head instinctively.

Most are just audio. Prichard did a series on the Network though which are basically rehashed versions of his old podcasts but filmed. Surprising how candidly he spoke considering the platform... his impressions of various people are always good value. Yeah, I’m a big fan of Wrestling with Wregret. There is a lot of bad wrestling related content on YouTube these days, but Brian Zane is always a highlight. I think comedy is definitely an essential part of wrestling. Bobby Heenan on commentary, The Rock in general, Kurt Angle, Edge and Christian, Regal, Kevin Nash doing paparazzi productions on TNA, Jay Lethal V Ric Flair, DX and nWo skits, Booker T and Goldust, Jericho’s list and the 1004 holds... all these are among the best things I’ve seen in wrestling. It’s the invisible handgrenades, invisible man, hands in pockets soft kicks, tampons in the mouth and dick flips that I can’t be doing with. I don’t find them either funny or entertaining. Quite the opposite. I think they are damaging. On a slightly related note, Janela is being praised for a hard hitting and brutal match in an arena, a takeaway and on the streets of Coventry over the weekend... against a 15 year old girl. Don’t know where to start with the issues I have with that.

It was on his podcast. I listen to it pretty regularly, and I’m a big fan of his and lean more towards his old school philosophy - he disliked the battle Royal even more than I did! And his rants on Trump, Russo... anyone who has annoyed him are gold! They usually break down the podcasts into YouTube videos. I highly recommend one called Cornette to Russo: Put up or shut up Bruce Prichard’s podcast used to be awesome, but since he’s back in the WWE fold its a lot tamer.

I listened to Cornette’s review the other day. I’d put the backlash down to Joey Ryan trying to stir things up, furthering his ongoing feud with Cornette. To paraphrase, Cornette’s comments were along the lines of “then came a guy dressed like a drag queen called Sonny Kiss who I have never heard of” he also later used the term transvestite, which I’m sure some will take exception to. Cornette hates sillyness in wrestling regardless of race, gender, sexuality... Joey Ryan with multiple agendas for me.

They have cut down on the crazy characters dramatically. And the tits as well.

I’ve just watched the pre show from double or nothing... if that Battle Royal is anything to go by, their TV show is going to be disastrous! I’ve no doubt the rest of the show picked up significantly, but even for a battle Royal this was dire. Firstly the good - MJF and Hangman Page. Two stars. One heel one baby face. Any positives in this match revolve around these two. Seeing Billy Gunn and Glacier was fun. Now for the negatives... Joey Janella is a dick who wrestles “invisible men” and always seems intent on crippling himself. He lit a cigarette which got stapled to his head by Jimmy Havoc (thankfully the iffy camerawork and chaotic approach to the match meant the camera missed it). Some guy called Orange Cassidy kept his hands in his pockets and slowly and gently kicked Tommy Dreamer in the shins. It appears that’s his schtick. Nonsense like that appeals to a very small minority of fans who are vocal on twitter and in tiny venues where this very indie stuff is normally played out. It will turn potential new fans off quickly. Shit like that, and the gushing reactions of a few, always smacks of people being in on a big private joke. The rest was just people sitting all around the ring, patiently waiting for their spot. Brian Pillman Jr was criminally underused. This should have been an attempt to grab a few last minute PPV buys... a casual/lapsed WWE fan would dismiss this instantly.

I’d happily see us spend every penny Venky’s have given us on Cooper and plug the other gaps with loans and frees. Could easily see him going for 8 mil.

Think Cooper will command a much higher fee than that sadly... You've probably got a much better idea than me, but Lawrence Shankland available on a free and being linked with Rangers and Celtic. Scored bags of goals for Ayr, but would he do it at this level?

I can’t see any drastic changes to WWE offering until after February next year when the XFL relaunches. I think that will start to tank pretty quickly and then Vince will be forced to do some shaking up. By that point we will have some idea of how much of a factor AEW will be a few months into their programming. Ideal scenario would be Vince taking a back seat and concentrating on the XFL... but I can’t see that happening. Even if he did Bruce Prichard and Kevin Dunn would likely just become proxy Vinces.

Wow! Only just stumbled across this thread! Clearly should have ventured away from the footy forums before now! I’ll go out on a limb and say he’s the best heel in the business at this current point in time. I saw him wrestle for PCW about 12 months ago and bumped into him in a takeaway after the show... I gave him some stick about having a fake Burberry scarf... he went into a full blown heel promo. Never broke character once, even when I bought him a pint in the pub later... I congratulated him on this and he asked me what the f*** I was talking... consummate heel, didn’t miss a beat!

At this point I’d take a Nixon link to us signing Kris Commons for 12.5 million... anything to move out of the purgatory of the last 4 pages.

Better goals to games ratio than Brereton ?

Give what a rest exactly? Should I become absolutely hysterical at the prospect of being linked with someone, write him off before he’s even signed... let alone kicked a ball, and get all misty eyed about a player who the vast majority said was past it 72 hours ago but now seems to have inexplicably taken on legendary status? If your reading of my post leads you to conclude that those are my thoughts on former clubs, try again without what I can only assume is blind rage clouding your judgement. I was pointing out that Downing has had a far more illustrious career than Conway, which would lead me to conclude he is a better player. The level at which he has plied his trade for the majority of his career being one factor. Rochina was a selfish show pony and didn’t fit our team. I thought Keith Andrews was solid enough for us and got a tough time... but people are drawing comparisons more to the signing of Whittingham... who I did think would turn out to be decent. Turns out he wasn’t... Gordon Cowans was though. Sometimes these sort of signings work out, sometimes not. Our fan base bemoan a lack of experience one minute, then claim anyone 32 years or over needs putting down. Personally, as I stated before, I’d rather us sign a winger in his mid 20s, proven and at his peak, who would regularly terrorise defences and help fire us to promotion with ease and stay with us for years to come... we aren’t going to be in the market for one of them though.

IF we do get Downing, that’s not going to be the sum total of our transfer business. We definitely need a winger in my opinion, and while I might have preferred someone likely to start more games, surely he isn’t as bad a signing as some or making out. Same age as Conway but... 35 England caps V 7 Scotland Caps 38 Champ appearances last year V 21 Former clubs Liverpool, Villa, West Ham V Ayr, Dundee and Cardiff And lets not forget, Conway was offered a deal he didn’t fancy, so to say we shouldn’t have ‘got rid of him’ is a bit wide of the mark. Yes, Downing will likely be offered a better deal than Conway... and rightly so.