My definition of the beautiful game is not flicks and tricks, where on earth did you get that from. I'm also not saying that there is no difference between English and continental football, I for one should know this as I live in Europe. My point is, as you have said, continental football is less physical. However, what you have not said, and this is what I am getting at, is that as a result of it being less physical, meaning that players are given more space, the games are slower, plenty of open space, the players are given more OPPURTUNITY to show off their skills. As a result of this, many are seen to be more skilled, when in reality, it is simply that in England you can't try and play that way. I don't doubt that if a lot of English players went over to continental leagues and played 2 seasons there, they would get used to having the extra space and would start to use some of the parts of their game that could previously only be tried out on the training ground.

there you have it lads home at 7pm last night It's all your fault then.

If you think players like Duff and Giggs have had to "change" their games, this is strange as it's the only league they have played in. While Henry has become a more skilled player while playing in england. All but the bottom clubs in the premier league have their fair share of skilled players, they simply aren't allowed the time on the ball that is required to show the kind of tricks and flicks that we so admire in spain, well at least some of us do. * Arsenal in the past few seasons have done well in the Champions League. With the odd team getting up there, Chelsea this season and Leeds not too far back. Yes, the stlyles of play are different. England is more physical, but those who say that there is less skill, and fewer skilled players in england, don't know what they are talking about.

Yes, but with 8 weeks to go until the actual season starts don't you think that number will increase a bit?

I hate it when people say that. I forgot, Duff, Pires, Henry, Giggs, Scholes and the rest don't play in England do they? It's what people like to spew out. The premier league has just as much skill, it simply is played in a different manner. Players are not allowed as much time on the ball and it's played at a higher pace. This means that there is less room to show off. For me this is one of the reasons why Beckham has had a poor tournament. He is starting to get used to the Real Madrid style of play, which isn't what best fits him regarding what he is good at. He's a hard worker, with great passing and vision, sadly I think he's used to playing with the all stars and messing around.

No way of knowing that. Who knows how Beckham scoring may have changed the mentality of other players and in this way affected how they took their penalties. It's really impossible to say.

Of course it can. Ferguson though has shown himself, at least after he settled in, to be a performer and a battler. One who will probably displace Flitcroft in the side next season, so it makes sense to have him become captain. I'm not having a go at Flitty, but being captain does mean that there is extra pressure on him to perform. Just look at the things said about Beckham on this site after last night, it's exactly the same for Flitcroft.

You are rather milking this aren't you 1864?

10K at this point isn't bad...maybe one good signing draw a few more in and improve on the crowds from last season. wishful thinking?

Flitrcroft has been a great player for the club, but 1864, for the past couple seasons he's been past his best and inconsistent. Yes, he still gives his all, but at the end of the day we have better players, he doesn't deserve to be insulted, but at the same time, have to take a look at reality.

Because if terry is making a genuine attempt to play the ball, then it's not a foul, they are just getting in each others way if you see. His arm is "limp", if you see what I mean, in that top picture, it is not holding him down, it is straight out. It's not a foul, I'm a striker (watch out I'm looking to get somewhere with this) and if that goal was taken away from me, I'd be miffed.

As far as im concerned judging by those pictures, it looks to me like the keeper has jumped under Terry's arm, now that, is not a foul

Brian Clough wasn't it? Maybe it's true, but make it your own death and not someone else's.

Come on boys calm down. He was poor and biased, but it is just football, leave the man alone.

Thanks a lot, well I hope to be getting a team soon as there is no waiting list in France, and hopefully I'll be playing some of you in friendlies and such sometime in the near future.

Ferguson (Bazza) is really going to have to work hard then....

Lucky lofty isnt around, it was his thread that called for this very move that started the big debate about who is friend was and how rude Steb is.

Sorry, I'm lazy, though I did find it in the end. Right now I'm actually having trouble logging on. I've registered, but it always says that it's failed, I'm really not sure what's wrong so I may have to register a new team I suppose. And yes, I've made sure many times that it's the right user name and password.

That was my point basically, well said

I really got behind England in Euro 2004, but there is no doubt that I love Rovers more. This would have been hard to tell if anyone had been watching me last night compared to any Rovers match. The difference for me though came after the match had finished. England lost, I accepted it, and turned my attention to other things, of course it hurt, but I don't really mind all that much. This isn't like a Rovers game, where I am down for a week if they simply lose a League Cup match while fielding their reserves against Brighton.

Are you told when your warning level is increased?

Whats the site?

it's free?

This site is such a positive place

Is Hattrick free? When does the season start again?