joey_big_nose

Ince genuinely seemed like he had no idea what he was doing. After he left us he sank back down the divisions. I dont know Iley - before my time. But for all his shortcomings Ismael does seem to know the basics of being a manager.

Chaddy has got his perspective, he is if nothing else consistent, everyone knows where he stands. What is the purpose of these never ending (5+ years?) circular conversations.

To be honest in terms of individual playing ability I am not really seeing a big gap from what we have this year to last year. We could go back a year and find posts from you and others saying we were getting relegated with Travis, Dolan, Brittain, Hyam etc. The difference is imo 1) a huge volume of players are brand new and learning the country, club and system, 2) none of those players bar McCloughlin and TGH have any championship experience, 3) the manger is not as good as Mowbray, Eustace and JDT 4) we lack a consistent reliable defence and central midfield partnership Essentially I am not really sure the quality of the incoming players is the main issue, its turnover and loss of experience. A lot of football is not won on ability, its won on being organised, bonded as a team and aligned to a plan.

You have to plan the team to address the issues which are.. 1) we give away sloppy goals as we lack a consistent well drilled defensive unit 2) we arent converting enough scoring chances. And only create them by taking lots of risks overcommiting players. 3) we lack leadership 4) we lack a competitive midfield And then you look at the squad and tbh i cant see any variation from the XI that played against Swansea (unless Wharton and Carter are fit) which makes any difference at all. We are in the "weeing with the willy we have" territory.

Not sure id attach too much blame to Owen - he just gets a brief and has to work with it. Suhail and Gestede would have been the ones who went to Venkys and said they could make a competitive team on a radically reduced budget and sell our key players. But the fundamental dynamic is there are many fewer jobs in football than those who want them so if Gestede and Suhail walked away (not that they would) I am sure theyd find someone else who said they could do it. In a way its a good thing for it not to work as it hastens a reckoning and let's the efforts to push out Venkys build a bit of steam. If they fluked it again and we were competitive we'd just lose everyone once they proved themselves as we have already with JDT and Eustace. Its really all about the owners and their lack of engagement and planning. Getting bogged down in the individuals who are here is just a distraction. Ultimately we need new owners who have a vague sense of what it takes to be effective in the Championship and only a part of that is money.

Hell be on lot more than 10k a week, at least double.

I don't think tbh changing the system is the answer as on balance of play we were quite competitive all game against Swansea. The issue is we conceded two really sloppy goals which were all about individual mistakes rather than anything to do with the shape. I am not really sure how we mitigate for that, but Id be worried if we change the system we end up confusing the players further.

In terms of technical quality we probably have a better set of players than when we were last relegated, that was a really awful team. But its a different game when you're low on confidence and scrapping three games a week. Then you need players who are physical, motivated, bonded as a team and dig out results. I cant see any sign of that.

I am not particularly keen on Gestede but surely the main question is how has a guy who joined on work experience and with nothing on his CV about running a football club ended up running ours? I still - even with Venkys total incompetence and disengagement, cant wrap my head around that one. Until we answer that one we can all want Gestede replaced but they will just make another terrible appointment.

What is really worrying is its impossible to pick out a single player who you could say is going to grab the bull by the horns and fight over the horrible next three months or so. We didnt have many leaders before but the ones we did have we sold. Now our remaining good players are either checking out of the club and not that vocal anyway (Tronstad), looking emotionally invested but not composed and organised (Cantwell), perpetually injured, (Wharton, Carter), or so new into an incredibly chaotic environment that they dont really have much of a chance to impose themselves if they even have those skills (McCloughlin, Alebiouso, Toth). We've taken a gamble of massive proportions this summer, and it was very reliant on having a good start and getting the team to settle and build confidence with what effectively is a completely new squad. Now we are on the doorstep of the winter and I am sure Ismael is now looking at the team wondering what on earth he does to stabalise things. He seems quite a one dimensional manager who struggles when his plan A isnt working, and seems to completely lack the people skills of Eustace or Mowbray where they could put an arm around players and boost them when needed. Also stuff that he is supposed to be good at (defensive setup, defending set pieces) are deteriorating which knocks all the confidence out of the players when they can play well for 20 mins, score nothing then give away a goal for free. That isn't helped by all the back five who started yesterday having only 5-20 rovers starts each, and then playing with lots of different combinations of players. I dont think the heads have quite gone down yet but it's in the post.

The one thing I am holding onto with relegation is that if we go down it blows a hole in the new model (pay less than 10k, get ultra cheap players from abroad) so maybe it will be enough for Venkys to just call it a day.

I don't think Potter will be looking for a Championship gig.... even if he was I doubt he would want to come and work at our circus.

We played well in patches through the game. But if you concede cheap goals and struggle to convert it's a recipe for disaster. A few other points As much as we never recover in a game when we go behind we rarely manage to lose when we go ahead in recent seasons. But today is the second time we have managed to lose after leading already this season. While Ismael seems to have us well organised in our initial shape (though we look sloppy defending set pieces) whenever we try and do anything different - add subs, chase a game etc - we look really disjointed and fall apart. We really look like we don't have leaders when we are up against it, which is not surprising when we sold Hyam, Baath and Travis all in one fell swoop We haven't even started to get into the mad rush of games through the winter yet and already we look really dependent on a few key players who are already starting to look knackered. What happens if Tronstad, Alebiousu, Cantwell go down injured? I thought Morishita was quite good when he first arrived, but he's really struggled last couple of games, and Kargbo has been absolutely diabolical. The main ray of sunshine is Alebiousu who is fantastic. Gudjohnsen looks willing but not sure he is really going to add many goals. We have to not concede like we did today. Should have got a draw minimum, but lost to two really really sloppy easy goals which Ismael whole brand is about not conceding from.

I am usually one of the more positive ones on here but this is a performance that now has me worried about relegation. Soft goals put you down, and we look full of them.

Well, as I have said before, life in the Championship is when all is looking lost suddenly out of nowhere you pull out a great performance. And inversely you begin to get a bit of hope and it kicks you in the nuts. We've had a few of each already this season. Anyone who tries to predict anything (hello Merce!) is a hostage to total fortune. I'll watch tonight expecting the worst, but knowing there is a decent chance I will be surprised again. I guess that's the addiction of football. The championship is a particularly virulent concoction of the unpredictable.

Id swap Morishita and Yuki over I think.

I get that having a left footer and right footer may help in an ideal world. But life is about trade-offs , and surely having a make shift full back who is getting skinned alive by their winger is worse than it being a bit more tricky to pick passes into the right side of the pitch from centre half... I can accept that Ismael didn't realise that TGH was going to be taken apart at RB. But what I cant accept is bringing on Tavares who is no competitor at all, and not changing the RB again after 10 mins when it was obvious we had completely lost control of the game. Very interesting to see how Ismael responds now, especially if Alebiouso is out for Swansea. Ive got an awful feeling he might be the sort of manager to double down on his mistakes, hope I am wrong.

Kargbo maybe but he didnt need to bring Tavares on. He had Montgomery or pulling Cantwell deeper into midfield. Or could have just left TGH there, moved Miller to RB and brought on McCloughlin. The environment at the club makes things difficult but Ismael really shot us in the foot today. Ive been pretty happy with how Ismael has set us up most games, we seem really well drilled. But if we go behind and need a way to find a goal he seems to have few ideas - which is consistent with how we have been for years.

Yeah - I think the Tavares on to CM, TGH to RB may be the worst sub (as in negatively impacting a game) ive seen as a Rovers fan. It led to total capitulation across the putch.

Hes got some talent but not anywhere up to the pace of the English game and seems to think he doesnt need to play the defensive side of the gane. Sort of player I could see improving over time and being useful next season once hes adjusted his mentality and fitness but in the trenches this year he's the opposite of what we need.

Really hope Abeliousu is not out for the next game. We really need him. As soon as he went off we couldn't get out at all. Reckon Miller would be able to do it but for some reason its a legal requirement for one of our CBs to be right footed...

We've been utterly abysmal since the subs today, but im not too worried about relegation as our plan A looks okay. Championship is a massive league with 24 teams and you have to go some to be in the worst three. Really worried by how much Ismael managed to mess up his plan B with more obvious changes on the bench.

What worries me the most is how poor Gudjonsen has looked as well. I was hoping he was a good one. Really think a lot of today is on the managers subs. The Tavares CM and TGH at RB changed us from competitive but edged out to totally overrun. Kargbo also totally horrendous when he has come on which is also a shame.

Looks decent as a centre mid but hes not a right back.

We're quite lucky its only been 2-0. What is it about us that makes us so bad after going a goal down over the last five years? Its been for a very very long time now. Four managers and virtually every player in the squad had changed in that time. But still as soon as the goal goes in we just cant get back in 95% of games.