I think Mark Hughes would be high up my list if it’s a possibility too. Only if he’s bringing Eddie N (if you can spell his name, crack on) and Mark Bowen though. I think it would be a good fit - less money than he’s been allowed to spend (waste) in his previous few places. Lots to fix for him and us. The common expectation is someone with a broken reputation or a novice. Hughes or Johnson sounds something similar to that.

To be fair though JHR, you listed three things people should be looking at to judge him; 1. Poor transfer business 2. Set high targets 3. Poor football. I wouldn’t call that balanced or open minded personally. It’s very easy to expect more from something, it’s a bit more difficult to try and see both good and bad. For instance for 1; I’d say our squad is light years in front of the one he inherited. I’m not just talking new players, but individuals are better. Equally, he’s blooded a few kids in that scenario too. Cue; he was lucky, he had a top academy, Smallwood for suspended etc etc etc. For two; I wouldn’t say you’re “that guy” but I know that many here would’ve been outraged should this years “intention” been to consolidate. He/we all wanted new/better players. I’m sure TMs aspirations outweighed his chances this summer - Whilst I’m convinced a better manager/setup would’ve done better, I don’t think we’ve done too bad. Equally - it’s far too early to judge any of them. (New signings Cue; either “defenders are coming” or “defensively were fine” since that’s an easy way to sweep any argument or justification away. As for 3 - I’m sure you know as well as I do the importance of “functional” football, results etc. Whilst TM is in no way comparable to the Allardyces or Pulis’s for setting teams up, he found a “style” or system that basically achieved the minimum target. The difficulty now is changing to to be more effective against teams that can defend set pieces/long plays. Cue; we’ve stumbled and managed to come up through league one “in spite of the manager” purely down to wage bill! Finally on the point of judging this into last season. I agree that our form in 2019 could be better, but the improvement in performances and results in April/May shouldn’t be ignored as “dead Rubbers” because it suits a POV.

I’m talking about Dyche inherited a complete different animal to our club. Different job entirely. 2 of those windows are also League 1. I’m not convinced that did the best we could mind, but at least 3 windows of TM would’ve been tinged with discussions about being or recently being league 1. Wages massively impacted. I also felt we had a criminal shortage of quality wingers and attackers after two league one windows. So whilst hindsight now points me in a “fuck Brereton, should’ve signed a CB”, I’m not sure it was as obvious at the time. Equally I’m not convinced there are simple fixes to any position - let alone a defender to come in and be instantly a top 6 level fixture. Our veteran surely can’t be staying around for too much longer. The same dissenting voices pointed out how weak without Graham we would’ve been last season. We needed recruitment upfront AND defence and whilst I’m quite sure we will all fall into “tosin fans”, it’s not difficult to see why the criticism has turned to defensive recruits! Especially when all momentum was thrown away last season on allowing Downing out, and a Lenihan injury!

I don’t think we are far off that. Bar centre backs that is. He also inerited a club that had been run in particular direction for a few years previous. Its no coincidence their previous manager was also extremely well successful since. For all the Mowbray out stuff, I’ll never be convinced our setup can find such success. That will always impact the context. Maybe with Waggot, things might be different?

That’s 7 seasons at a club. I probably admire Sean Dyche more than the average Burnley fan, but let’s not forget that their stature and wage bill have made them piss from a selective pot Dyche for me has a talent in setting up a 442 that’s almost impossible to dominate. Nothing to do with personnel or transfer business; just a well oiled machine designed for resilience

Vinny m8 - I’m the guy who baulks at people using more than the last 2.5 years, or TMs tenure when looking at our immediate direction. Therefore, even though I agree that the trust negligently sold us via agents, I’m not sure what it has to do with Fulham away, Mowbray out! Or anything bar our whole ownership scenario.

I am aware of that, I was referencing that my only ever recollection of a manager leaving so quickly was Hudds. The rationale (funnily enough) was the poor run the previous season. My point with our context was we have no “Dean Hoyle”. We have the disconnected, unpredictable at best Rao family.

Didn’t we have Rigg as DOFnot so long ago? Judging by his impact at Burnley, I’d say cold hard cash for wages is a problem both clubs face. I know, I know, 15m on strikers... the point with wages, they can only be recouped by performances!

Also the best headed chance I remember Gallagher getting yesterday was a Bennett on the overlap cross. About a yard wide though, looping across the keeper from about 10 yards out

I watched Raya for a few seasons and I never thought he was that bad, however he did put one in the stand every game. Waltons kicking from hand/GKs have looked on target so far to me, albeit in two games only.

I fall into this category - although one think I would say about Walton; 1. Very early days, still finding his feet/voice in the squad. 2. His kicking is a huge upgrade on Raya. Overall - yesterday is another example that simplifying football down to sweeping arguments like “we can’t defend” has no value. We are now two games into the season without creating a single clear cut chance, and yesterday I don’t think anyone can argue that it wasn’t our best front 6. (Maybe Graham for Sam, but you can’t press like we did with a 34 year old up front). The reasoning comes down to a few key things for me; 1. Couple of new players, time to bed in. This also combined with new pressing/passing system as opposed to hitting graham with a diagonal to play Dack off 2. Substitutions. Both games I’m convinced TM got it completely wrong. Charlton we looking in the ascendancy until he changed it. More specifically Fulham; The minute he took Travis off, we couldn’t put a glove on them in the centre. You could almost tell from Bradley Johnson’s instant dip, what Travis gives us - pure energy and action in centre mid. Finally - on the TM out stuff. The notion behind sacking any manager after 2 games into a season will never seem right to me. Doesn’t matter if people’s justification stretches back to last summer; the current context is we are 2 games into a season. Sacking a manager at that point would (in my view) be pretty much akin to blowing your own brains out. Huddersfield did it with Robins. He left after 1 game I think, they finished 17th the season before. It took them 3 weeks or so to find Chris Powell (who then left 12 months later) who led them to finish 16th... This is a club ran by a millionaire Huddersfield fan (Dean Hoyle). Imagine how long it would take, and who we might get too.

He and Nyambe injured apparently

100% stopped us in our tracks both games. Baffling.

Lend us a tenner Breo

I disagree with that completely. Keith Andrews was a league 1 Evans, gifted a premier league career by Ince. Bennett isn’t top league quality but in my humble opinion, the effort he puts in trumps Keith Andrews without needing to go into anything else. Keith ran around an pointed at stuff.

I look at this as potentially nationally motivated if he knew after Charlton his position in our squad was 4th Centreback. Id feel much better about the situation if and when we recruit another to usurp Del, who is now chief backup.

I’d hardly think of williams moving to CB as reinventing him, in fact id say most people I’ve talked to think he’s far more suited to that position!

Equally I think many forget we got 60 points from 46 games, and to be relegated last year we would’ve needed to drop a third of them. I personally think the playoffs are a push with our organisation in dire need of improvement, but I’m not sure how our summer business is going to push us back so far.

As people have mentioned, we’ve made our bed here - maybe not exactly how we wanted it but a new GK, two new first team defenders and a couple of experienced heads higher up. The free agent list is still quite appealing. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see an older CB turn up should Charlie’s deal go through.

And rightly so. As I said, he’s ramped up the expectation through basic success. I bet (last season) the crowd wouldn’t have reacted the same, but you can guarantee (in your scenario) there would be unrest - maybe even bottom 10 MB

I massively share much of his frustration about it “not being that easy” and this is exactly how many fans I speak to regularly feel. It’s only here, FB and Twitter, where I seem to find those 1 sentence, three word sweeping arguments like “square pegs” or “plays his favourites” or “won’t sign defenders”. Its as if some forget how competitive the leagues are, or the recent direction we’re coming from. Equally - it’s a result business. Up to this point, regardless of squad development, interviews, the brand of Lemon drizzle cake - the results have fit my expectations at least. That may be something certain opinions find it difficult to accept, however many bigger/city teams spent years floundering in the third tier. I’ll be grateful for TM making my return to Oldham only a one night thing. Having another decent summer of investment ramps up the pressure, the natural progression needs to be top 6. So I’m still firmly against any idea of sacking him right now, and I wouldn’t be advocating an early change unless we are well short of that target in the first half of the season. Expectation is a funny thing - Im still open minded about his chances to achieve this. I also think TM is starting to be a victim of his own success, basically ramping up pressure because he’s ticked most boxes thus far.

Has Mulgrew even left yet?

Tosin + Cunningham = 2 m8

At least “Defenders did come” in the end lads. oo er